The Short Ball To The Deuce Court In Doubles

[Cindysphinx]

I have always struggled to hit my FH crosscourt, but I have finally gotten the hang of it. My problem now is one of shot selection.

Say I am serving from the deuce court. For whatever reason, I decide not to S&V. I hit a good serve, and returner shanks/pushes it short. Ball lands either in my alley or in the middle of the deuce service box. (My partner doesn't poach for whatever reason, including the fact that the poach would require a BH volley).

Anyway, I sprint up there, and then I have to do something with that ball. Options include:

1. Drive straight at net person.

2. Drive DTL.

3. Sharp FH crosscourt angle and approach.

4. Deep FH crosscourt angle and approach.

5. Lob (terrible idea, but let's put it out there).

What shot is best? What does it depend on?

Does the answer change if the returner is coming to net? Does the answer change based on the height of the ball?

FWIW, I am a 3.5 who plays both ladies and mixed. I need some sort of framework for handling these balls. What tends to happen now is that I start processing the options, change my mind seven times, and then do something stupid.

 

[anchorage]

If the return takes you wide, or into the alley, you certainly have the option of passing the net person on their 'outside' as it opens up quite a bit of court. That said, the net player should have moved to cover that shot.

You'll have the most options if you're in a position to take the ball on the rise or close to the top of the bounce. If it's short & wide, you could hit an angled cross court if not passing the net player. Even if that turns out not to be an outright winner, it should set up a winner on the next shot.

You also have the angle option if the return is more central. The percentage play on a mid service box return, though, is to drive down the middle. Again, if that's not an outright winner, you'll be right in control.

Whatever you do, select the shot early & commit to it.

If you're late to the ball & it's well below the height of the net when you reach it, your options are reduced. If you're wide, you can still go down the line. In fact, you'd rather be very wide so you can bypass the net post! If you can't pull that shot off, I'd play the cross court angle. You've still got to put some pace on the ball, though, because you cannot afford to be setting up a volley, or another weak, short ball, for your opponents.

 

[Falloutjr]

I have always struggled to hit my FH crosscourt, but I have finally gotten the hang of it. My problem now is one of shot selection.

Say I am serving from the deuce court. For whatever reason, I decide not to S&V. I hit a good serve, and returner shanks/pushes it short. Ball lands either in my alley or in the middle of the deuce service box. (My partner doesn't poach for whatever reason, including the fact that the poach would require a BH volley).

Anyway, I sprint up there, and then I have to do something with that ball. Options include:

1. Drive straight at net person.

2. Drive DTL.

3. Sharp FH crosscourt angle and approach.

4. Deep FH crosscourt angle and approach.

5. Lob (terrible idea, but let's put it out there).

What shot is best? What does it depend on?

Does the answer change if the returner is coming to net? Does the answer change based on the height of the ball?

FWIW, I am a 3.5 who plays both ladies and mixed. I need some sort of framework for handling these balls. What tends to happen now is that I start processing the options, change my mind seven times, and then do something stupid.

You have a lot of options here. Assuming the other player did not C&C, I would go with a short angle CC and draw my opponent wide, then either me or my partner would hammer the ensuing volley down the middle. But I'm a singles player, don't know much about doubles. I avoid it like the plague

 

[GetBetterer]

I think you're limiting your options too much. However, in that situation I would have hit a drop shot to make them both struggle up toward the net. Although otherwise I would have just tapped it over to the baseliner.

In addition, you team mate can do a different formation. The I-formation may work, the Australian formation I don't recommend as much, amongst others.

 

[GuyClinch]

I think this depends some on your game and that of your opponents.

Personally if the ball is wide but short I probably still try to smack it DTL. If the ball is more towards the middle and the net person isn't right there I hit a hard angled CC. If I am way up in the score I probably go for the CC dropper as I like to save those touch shots for fun..And as I guy well I want to hit everything SOLID - if not VERY HARD.

But your game matters too. Some people are GREAT at hitting topspin lobs. The could lob in that situation and win the point. Its hard to lob short balls but if you can do it you could place it in the corner back there on the ad side and probably win the point.

 

[deluxe]

The basic rule is if the ball is above the net, you can hit down on it and you should go towards the net player. If the ball is below the net and you have to hit up on it, play it back cross court to the deep player. Going extreme angle crosscourt is dangerous. If you don't hit a winner, you open up all kinds of angles for your opponents.

 

[deluxe]

If you go deep FH crosscourt, it's an approach and you should know where your second volley position is and get there quickly.

 

[deluxe]

If the returner is coming in and you are having to hit up, you're aiming to get it down at the feet of the returner.

 

[J011yroger]

If it is wide and low I would go short angle XC. If it is wide and high then short XC or DTL. If it is not wide, I would pound it up the middle and come in.

J

 

[deluxe]

Correct positioning after a deep wide volley crosscourt:

 

[Off The Wall]

I have always struggled to hit my FH crosscourt, but I have finally gotten the hang of it. My problem now is one of shot selection.

Say I am serving from the deuce court. For whatever reason, I decide not to S&V. I hit a good serve, and returner shanks/pushes it short. Ball lands either in my alley or in the middle of the deuce service box. (My partner doesn't poach for whatever reason, including the fact that the poach would require a BH volley).

Anyway, I sprint up there, and then I have to do something with that ball. Options include:

1. Drive straight at net person.

2. Drive DTL.

3. Sharp FH crosscourt angle and approach.

4. Deep FH crosscourt angle and approach.

5. Lob (terrible idea, but let's put it out there).

What shot is best? What does it depend on?

Does the answer change if the returner is coming to net? Does the answer change based on the height of the ball?

FWIW, I am a 3.5 who plays both ladies and mixed. I need some sort of framework for handling these balls. What tends to happen now is that I start processing the options, change my mind seven times, and then do something stupid.

Hit CC...unless DTL is way open. Hit it to where the returner will be pressed. If immobile, hit short. Otherwise, to returner's backhand.

Delux has sound advice.

 

[larry10s]

i have not read all the replies im getting ready for bed
a short ball (in the service box) if you get it above the net drive it into the allep
i dont beleive in going AT the net player since as you go up they may
reflex volley a winner
if its below the net at contact push it back deep or go for a short angle drop volley/ stroke

 

[naylor]

It depends on whether you can get to the ball at the top of the bounce, the bounce is high enough to hit a flatter shot, and you can inject good pace on a ball that has little on.

If you can answer YES to all three, then you can 1) have a go at the netperson (on a wide one); or 2) drive it deep down the middle between the opponents (on a ball bouncing in the service box); or 3) play a short-angle CC bouncing between the net and the service line, on the singles sideline (on either).

If one of the answers is NO, then rule no. 1 is to avoid the netperson's "lucky" volley (or solid poach, for that matter). So the choices narrow to 1) deep cross-court back to the returner (on a ball landing in the middle-left of your service box, so you can avoid the volleyer easily), or 2) short-angle CC.

You also have to think what the returner will be doing. If they've just played a lucky shank or frame, the likelihood is they weren't moving into the shot to play it "properly" (namely, an early angled block to the shoelaces of an incoming S&V player, or a slightly wider block short and towards the trams for an outright pass of the incoming S&V player) - which in either case they would have followed in to volley your pick-up. Hence, the likelihood is they'll have played a lucky mishit and then waited at the back to see whether it was in or out, and what you did with it then. So, if you play it deep, you go back to them, but they'll be "waiting to see what you do before they start thinking what they do in turn", rather than anticipating a deep ball back to them and ready to do something punishing with it - so, neutral.

My play in almost all instances, because I anticipate they'll be waiting at the baseline to "see what happens", is a more attacking CC sharp angle. If I catch it early, I play it with a lot of topspin and go for an even greater angle than the incoming ball, so to bounce on the trams and within 3-4 feet of the net (so my ball is already coming down as it goes over the net). If I only catch it lower down, then I basically go for a dink over the middle, lowest part of the net, and aim for the singles sideline - even if my opponent gets to it, they're only likely to get their racket under it and dink it upwards, giving my partner a good chance for an intercept.

 

[crystal_clear]

I have always struggled to hit my FH crosscourt, but I have finally gotten the hang of it. My problem now is one of shot selection.

Say I am serving from the deuce court. For whatever reason, I decide not to S&V. I hit a good serve, and returner shanks/pushes it short. Ball lands either in my alley or in the middle of the deuce service box. (My partner doesn't poach for whatever reason, including the fact that the poach would require a BH volley).

Anyway, I sprint up there, and then I have to do something with that ball. Options include:

1. Drive straight at net person.

2. Drive DTL.

3. Sharp FH crosscourt angle and approach.

4. Deep FH crosscourt angle and approach.

5. Lob (terrible idea, but let's put it out there).

What shot is best? What does it depend on?

Does the answer change if the returner is coming to net? Does the answer change based on the height of the ball?

FWIW, I am a 3.5 who plays both ladies and mixed. I need some sort of framework for handling these balls. What tends to happen now is that I start processing the options, change my mind seven times, and then do something stupid.

Anticipate the short ball and get to the position, hit and don't think.

When I think too much, my mind was off from the ball and hesitated then missed.

 

[floydcouncil]

The basic rule is if the ball is above the net, you can hit down on it and you should go towards the net player. If the ball is below the net and you have to hit up on it, play it back cross court to the deep player. Going extreme angle crosscourt is dangerous. If you don't hit a winner, you open up all kinds of angles for your opponents.

^^ the BEST response of all. You're the only person who talked about the HEIGHT of the ball when it crossed the net. Bravo!!!

 

[Cindysphinx]

OK. If I've got this, then I need to narrow it down to two possibilities:

1. If I get there fast and ball is at a comfortable height, I go deep crosscourt.

If I get there late and ball is low, hit the sharp crosscourt angle.

I think one way I get into trouble is when I hit that sharp crosscourt angle but I don't spank it enough. Then my partner gets passed down the line or the opponent goes DTL and my partner can't handle the BH volley.

 

[Dedans Penthouse]

Cindy, the lob is not always a "terrible idea," it depends on where the ball is. If the returner sent the ball sharply crosscourt to the alley, it would then depend on where the net person in front of you is standing. Assuming that all players are right-handed, if the net person is covering the alley (keeping the ball in from of them), then go down the middle (always a safe bet in doubles). But, if the net person is sort of covering the middle (and exposes some of the alley), you can flip a mini/half-lob over their left, i.e. "backhand" shoulder down the alley. At the 3.5 level, you're not going to have to worry about your opponent "snapping off" a BACKHAND OVERHEAD with much pace--esp. by a person who's had to turn tail and run backwards. As soon as they turn and run backwards, get the net.

 

[deluxe]

OK. If I've got this, then I need to narrow it down to two possibilities:

1. If I get there fast and ball is at a comfortable height, I go deep crosscourt.

If I get there late and ball is low, hit the sharp crosscourt angle.

I think one way I get into trouble is when I hit that sharp crosscourt angle but I don't spank it enough. Then my partner gets passed down the line or the opponent goes DTL and my partner can't handle the BH volley.

Seems an odd conclusion for me. I'd only be trying to hit a sharp crosscourt angle if I was going for a winner, whereas hitting it deep crosscourt is a high percentage, keep the point going/approach the net kind of shot.

So from where I'm sitting, you're saying if you're late and the ball is low, go for a winner, but if you're there in plenty of time and you have the ball at a comfortable height, don't go for a winner. Seems the wrong way round.

 

[crystal_clear]

OK. If I've got this, then I need to narrow it down to two possibilities:

1. If I get there fast and ball is at a comfortable height, I go deep crosscourt.

If I get there late and ball is low, hit the sharp crosscourt angle.

I think one way I get into trouble is when I hit that sharp crosscourt angle but I don't spank it enough. Then my partner gets passed down the line or the opponent goes DTL and my partner can't handle the BH volley.

Also, treat the short ball same as other shots. If you think it is a big opportunity and you "must" win the point, you might get muscles tighten up. ((

 

[Cindysphinx]

Seems an odd conclusion for me. I'd only be trying to hit a sharp crosscourt angle if I was going for a winner, whereas hitting it deep crosscourt is a high percentage, keep the point going/approach the net kind of shot.

So from where I'm sitting, you're saying if you're late and the ball is low, go for a winner, but if you're there in plenty of time and you have the ball at a comfortable height, don't go for a winner. Seems the wrong way round.

Yeah, you're right. That doesn't sound right, does it?

I guess what I meant is that I find it easier to hit a sharp angle when the ball is lower, as I can get more topspin.

Wrong?

 

[deluxe]

Yeah, you're right. That doesn't sound right, does it?

I guess what I meant is that I find it easier to hit a sharp angle when the ball is lower, as I can get more topspin.

Wrong?

I think so. Surely to get lots of topspin you want a steep racquet trajectory -> get the racquet a long way below the ball and hit sharply up the back. If a ball is low, that limits the amount of topspin you can get on it because you're limited in how far below the ball you can get your racquet. Getting topspin is more important when a ball is low (and short) because you have to get it up over the net and back down inside the court.

Surely the higher the ball, the greater the angles available?

 

[Cindysphinx]

OK, so we'll go with this:

Low ball -- take it deep crosscourt as an approach.

High ball -- pound hard crosscourt for sharp angle.

I know there are other options, but I need to get this down to a kindergarten level so I can execute it without indecision.

 

[deluxe]

OK, so we'll go with this:

Low ball -- take it deep crosscourt as an approach.

High ball -- pound hard crosscourt for sharp angle.

I know there are other options, but I need to get this down to a kindergarten level so I can execute it without indecision.

I'd say hit everything deep and crosscourt (and get to the second volley position) unless you think the ball is such a sitter that you can hit a winner, in which case your options are short angle crosscourt or down the line usually towards the tramlines of the receiver's partner.

All assuming the receiver's partner isn't poaching of course Good players will poach heavily if the server is hitting a low/half volley.

 

[larry10s]

OK, so we'll go with this:

Low ball -- take it deep crosscourt as an approach.

High ball -- pound hard crosscourt for sharp angle.

I know there are other options, but I need to get this down to a kindergarten level so I can execute it without indecision.

high ball in the alley(tram lines on the other side of the pond from where i live) of the net player as mentioned above

 

[LuckyR]

I have always struggled to hit my FH crosscourt, but I have finally gotten the hang of it. My problem now is one of shot selection.

Say I am serving from the deuce court. For whatever reason, I decide not to S&V. I hit a good serve, and returner shanks/pushes it short. Ball lands either in my alley or in the middle of the deuce service box. (My partner doesn't poach for whatever reason, including the fact that the poach would require a BH volley).

Anyway, I sprint up there, and then I have to do something with that ball. Options include:

1. Drive straight at net person.

2. Drive DTL.

3. Sharp FH crosscourt angle and approach.

4. Deep FH crosscourt angle and approach.

5. Lob (terrible idea, but let's put it out there).

What shot is best? What does it depend on?

Does the answer change if the returner is coming to net? Does the answer change based on the height of the ball?

FWIW, I am a 3.5 who plays both ladies and mixed. I need some sort of framework for handling these balls. What tends to happen now is that I start processing the options, change my mind seven times, and then do something stupid.

A couple of ideas:

1- Your partner actually would have a FH volley poach for a CC hit to the deuce side (unless you routinely play with lefties).

2- If the ball is above or at least close to top of the net height, whipping a topspinny FH at the netman should get you the point, but it will have to have quite a bit of pace. If you don't have the pace to force a poor quality return, I would not poke the ball into the alley, since although you will have a great angle, it would be the poor netman who doesn't anticipate your angle advantage and slide over to be able to hit a BH volley between you and your partner for the outright winner. Instead I would choose my shot depending on the style and position of the other team.

3- If they are statues who never poach, I would try to get it by the netman up the middle. Most statues will let that shot go through since it is able to be hit by their partner (which it will be) but it will be to the BH of the baseline player and he will have little to no passing angle. so approach off of the shot and due to your position you probably can get to second volley position from there.

4- If they are poaching madmen, you could try to go at the netman, hoping he won't be there, either going to the alley to cover the angle (more likely) or even going across for poach (less likely). My guess is you aren't likely to meet up with this style of player though.

5- If they are lobmeisters (much more common) then I would chip short and charge up to first volley position, even if I have enough time to get to second. You are essentially challenging them to hit a high quality lob off of a difficult shot in an impossible part of the court.

 

[Cindysphinx]

A couple of ideas:

1- Your partner actually would have a FH volley poach for a CC hit to the deuce side (unless you routinely play with lefties).

2- If the ball is above or at least close to top of the net height, whipping a topspinny FH at the netman should get you the point, but it will have to have quite a bit of pace. If you don't have the pace to force a poor quality return, I would not poke the ball into the alley, since although you will have a great angle, it would be the poor netman who doesn't anticipate your angle advantage and slide over to be able to hit a BH volley between you and your partner for the outright winner. Instead I would choose my shot depending on the style and position of the other team.

3- If they are statues who never poach, I would try to get it by the netman up the middle. Most statues will let that shot go through since it is able to be hit by their partner (which it will be) but it will be to the BH of the baseline player and he will have little to no passing angle. so approach off of the shot and due to your position you probably can get to second volley position from there.

4- If they are poaching madmen, you could try to go at the netman, hoping he won't be there, either going to the alley to cover the angle (more likely) or even going across for poach (less likely). My guess is you aren't likely to meet up with this style of player though.

5- If they are lobmeisters (much more common) then I would chip short and charge up to first volley position, even if I have enough time to get to second. You are essentially challenging them to hit a high quality lob off of a difficult shot in an impossible part of the court.

Now that you mention this bit in bold, it does work very well with players who play one-up, one-back and don't poach. The hardest part about executing it is that I have to scramble hard to get back to the middle after I hit my shot because their next shot will either be a lob or a drive up the middle. But as you say, a lot of people are weaker off the BH, and many cannot lob well over that side.

 

[J011yroger]

You're the only person who talked about the HEIGHT of the ball when it crossed the net. Bravo!!!

I resent that!

J

 

[skiracer55]

It's not that complicated...

...you just got a gift (a short ball), so it doesn't matter a whole lot what you do next. Just hit it back anywhere and tool on into the net...

 

[slewisoh]

If you had followed your serve in, you probably be in a great position to attack the ball, hitting a solid forehand volley down the line or deep cross court at the approaching opponent's feet.

But you didn't come in, you stayed back. I take that to mean that you are now scrambling to get to the ball and will probably be stretching to hit whatever shot you take? If I'm envisioning this correctly, I see a rather softly hit slice, carefully placed either up the line or short cross court so as to avoid the net player. I can't see attacking the ball, as some have suggested.

 

[Nellie]

OK. If I've got this, then I need to narrow it down to two possibilities:

1. If I get there fast and ball is at a comfortable height, I go deep crosscourt.

If I get there late and ball is low, hit the sharp crosscourt angle.

I think one way I get into trouble is when I hit that sharp crosscourt angle but I don't spank it enough. Then my partner gets passed down the line or the opponent goes DTL and my partner can't handle the BH volley.

At minimum, I would have switched the two, but my preference is, with a high ball, to go down the line

 

[naylor]

OK. If I've got this, then I need to narrow it down to two possibilities:
1. If I get there fast and ball is at a comfortable height, I go deep crosscourt.
If I get there late and ball is low, hit the sharp crosscourt angle.

I think one way I get into trouble is when I hit that sharp crosscourt angle but I don't spank it enough. Then my partner gets passed down the line or the opponent goes DTL and my partner can't handle the BH volley.

As Nellie says, I think you have these the wrong-way round. If you're there early and the ball sits up, you can (and if you go for it, should) create a greater angle than the incoming ball to drive the opponent well wide. That way, you dramatically shrink the dimension and shape of the court they can aim at to pass your partner at the net (particularly, if he/she moves wide to follow your ball wide) - not a simple DTL shot to the trams, more like 45 degrees diagonally back into the court. If you can put pace it's good, but often just good topspin does the job - it brings your ball down, but also makes it shoot forward (in this case, further away to the side) off the bounce.

When you get there late, on a low ball, what you need to do is to create a little time to regain your position and cover the opponent's next shot. If they're still waiting at the baseline, then a CC short dink is an option, because you force them to move forward fast and you may put them under the same pressure they've just put you - tables turned, they have to reach late for a low ball. If they have started to anticipate and moved forward, then going for depth makes them retreat. Even if they've stayed back and you still go for depth, the fact is that - as you're reaching for the ball - you won't have great pace on your shot, so it'll take time to get to the opponent at the back of the court, which gives you time to regain balance and cover the net with your partner better.

 

[Cindysphinx]

OK. I'll try this next chance I get.

Thanks, all!!!

 

[LuckyR]

Now that you mention this bit in bold, it does work very well with players who play one-up, one-back and don't poach. The hardest part about executing it is that I have to scramble hard to get back to the middle after I hit my shot because their next shot will either be a lob or a drive up the middle. But as you say, a lot of people are weaker off the BH, and many cannot lob well over that side.

I agree (of course). Naturally if you are standing in the alley and the statue didn't cover their alley you can probably roll a winner into the alley, but if they are competent enough to cover their alley you can still hit it up the middle.

 

[5263]

Then my partner gets passed down the line or the opponent goes DTL and my partner can't handle the BH volley.

How is this different than 2 weeks ago when you were saying that you didn't want your partner to cover the dtl well?

 

[naylor]

How is this different than 2 weeks ago when you were saying that you didn't want your partner to cover the dtl well?

I think you're looking at two different situations. From memory, last week we were considering a return of serve (or shot from the baseline), where the DTL was a change of direction and the normal (or higher %age) shot would be back CC. In that situation, I agree with the view the netperson is better off covering the lower %age DTL "less well" than the CC. If anything, the weaker my partner's serve or CC is (within reason - if he/she plays a complete sitter, then "you're on your own, bro!"), the more I deliberately tempt the returner by shifting slightly inwards and making the gap bigger, knowing that as soon as he starts his swing I will move wide to shut the trams. If I successfully draw the fire from my weaker partner I know from experience that for every pass the opponent makes he'll miss - or I'll volley away - three, and I can live happily with a 75% success rate from a weaker position. If I don't and the opponent still goes cross-court, then at least he's likely to go wider to avoid my poach, so to my partner's forehand.

The situation with an angle with not enough angle and/or pace is that it ends up as a short ball still inside (or just outside) the trams, which the opponent can get to relatively easily by moving forward from their rallying position on the baseline. Here, the earlier he/she can take the ball, the more %age shot the short-to-short straight at (or past) my partner at the net becomes. If the opponent can take the ball high and hit flat, it's "protect yourself" time; and even if the opponent has to take a lower ball, unless my partner at the net is a natural volleyer who knows how to "make himself big" to cut off the pass in that situation, even a prod straight at him is likely to result in a winning pass or a volley error (because weak volleyers tend to make themselves small and shy away, rather than hunt for the ball). So in this case, what you end up doing with a weak angle is setting your partner up to eat fuzz. Therefore, what you need is a partner that will very obviously stand his ground like a wall to volley back any DTL attempts.

 

[fruitytennis1]

1. If your good at driving the ball put it anywhere DTL including at the net person.
2. A drop shot would also be a good choice.

 

[Cindysphinx]

To 5263:

In addition to what Naylor said, my view of positioning is that you have to be more careful about your alley when your partner has hit a weak or short shot, and you have to be less careful about your alley when your partner has hit a deep or any shot that bothers your opponents.

In other words, if my partner drops a sitter wide and on the service line, that's not a ball that is good for poaching. That ball represents a good opportunity for my opponent to go DTL. If I'm not poaching, I can defend the alley and wait for a better opportunity to poach. If, on the other hand, my partner blasts a shot deep into the corner, I should not guard my alley -- I should look to poach, knowing that I can still defend my alley even if I cheated a bit because the ball was so deep.

Clear?

 

[deluxe]

I noticed Ken Flach (6 times doubles GS winner, 1988 Olympic Gold) on TennisOne this week: "If you don't get burned down your line at least once a set, you're not poaching enough."

I'll confess that I do defend my line a little more if the opponents have a shorter ball. But even then, I'll be very active.

Think of it this way: Your opponents have a short, floating ball. They a range of shot angles that will be winners (maybe they're close enough that your team can only cover 80% of the court combined). I could cover my line completely by being close to the tramlines: then all the possible winners will be cross court towards my partner. Obviously there is a complete continuum, but one alternative is to leave half of the angle of winning angles DTL and half XC. Where would you prefer your opponents to have to go for that winner? If they go for a winner XC and are a little late, the ball just goes for less of an angle, it becomes a normal rally XC shot and they approach the net. If they go for a winner DTL and are a little late, the ball goes out and you win the point. Low part of the net(XC) versus high part(DTL) of the net. Long court(XC) versus short court(DTL). All the standard good stuff.

If I close the door completely on the DTL shot (and certainly if this is my habit), my opponent is approaching that shorter, weaker ball knowing exactly which way he's going to hit it. If I'm leaving some range of DTL open and my partner has some XC open the opponent has to make a decision (and if he wants to play the percentages he'll have to hit some XC and some DTL). He'll be approaching the shorter ball, the net man will be moving about leaving different amounts of DTL open on different shots: you're putting your opponent under pressure. If you close the door on the DTL shot all the time: no pressure.

You've given your opponents a weak ball to hit. You're not favourite to win the point. At least put them under pressure to hit some difficult shots to win it.

As Louis Cayer said in the video I posted in the other thread, "These concepts make sense when you start to think not 'how can we beat them with great shots', but 'how can we can make them miss by making them try shots out of their comfort zone'.

 

[deluxe]

If, on the other hand, my partner blasts a shot deep into the corner, I should not guard my alley -- I should look to poach, knowing that I can still defend my alley even if I cheated a bit because the ball was so deep.

Clear?

The second half of that sounds like you are covering your alley on the deep ball.

 

[jpr]

lots of nuance in this question
- height of the ball at contact
- approach angle towards the ball
- your abilities
- opponents abilities
- partner abilities

if ball height is above the net, you have most options available

if serving from wide position and ball lands in center of service box, you are moving towards the ball in a cross court direction thus DTL requires additional footwork however at the net player may still be possible

if serving from a position closer to center and ball lands in your alley, then you are moving towards the ball at a different angle. makes DTL easier if ball height is ok, however may take sharp crosscourt out of play.

if were me,
default answer is crosscourt to deep opponents BH w heavy topspin (assume righty)....doesnt work if ball lands in my alley.

if lands in my alley, i'll look DTL or lob over net player. if net player isnt good poacher, i still may go cross court to opponents FH and reset the point.

i also like the sharp cross court dipper (ie aiming for singles sideline inside service box)...when moving in a crosscourt approach angle to the ball, and my partner can defend the angle i create for my opponent. generally use this when opponent isnt a great mover

my tactics change if my partner doesnt defend the lob well

 

[spaceman_spiff]

...you just got a gift (a short ball), so it doesn't matter a whole lot what you do next. Just hit it back anywhere and tool on into the net...

I'm with the ski man on this one. Basically, just look for a hole, hit it there, and follow to the net.

If there's an opening for a winner, great. If not, no sweat; you've still got a free ticket to the net.

 

[5263]

I think you're looking at two different situations. From memory, last week we were considering a return of serve (or shot from the baseline), where the DTL was a change of direction and the normal (or higher %age) shot would be back CC.

Last week's quote,
"Originally Posted by JamaicanYoute 3 rules to live by:

The very first rule of doubles (net play in general) is to cover the (your) line."

Actually last week the initial comment (above) is about just covering the line in general. Several different situations came up in later discussion with much hair splitting going on, but the initial comment had no particular situations listed.
Now this comes up as a situation where Cindy has realized that having her partner cover the line better can be useful. Her concern here is a good example of the kind of situation that leads to the advise of taking care of your line and shows how when your net person does not, it adds to concerns of shot selection.

I'm not really concerned here about leaving the last 4" of your line exposed (if you think you can work it out to this detail), or leaving weaker coverage dtl when a great shot has been hit (common sense to 3.5 and below I expect), but with the idea that you must be responsible for not letting your line be the hole in your teams coverage that the other team can go to for points.

 

[5263]

I'm with the ski man on this one. Basically, just look for a hole, hit it there, and follow to the net.

If there's an opening for a winner, great. If not, no sweat; you've still got a free ticket to the net.

I also agree with ski man on this.

 

[5263]

I think one way I get into trouble is when I hit that sharp crosscourt angle but I don't spank it enough. Then my partner gets passed down the line or the opponent goes DTL and my partner can't handle the BH volley.

Here is what I feel clear on above. You have a legitimate concern of your partner not controlling traffic down their line. No matter what method I used to explain it before, it was not getting thru. Often as in this situation, examples that you have experienced bring the point home much better.

 

[larry10s]

Here is what I feel clear on above. You have a legitimate concern of your partner not controlling traffic down their line. No matter what method I used to explain it before, it was not getting thru. Often as in this situation, examples that you have experienced bring the point home much better.

confucius say
experience great teacher

 

[larry10s]

heard this one today
experience is what you get AFTER you need it:shock:

 

[LeeD]

Cindy, tell your netman to move his butt around to cover the expected angles.
A stationary ANYONE does you no good at all on a tennis court.
If he won't move, glue him to your alley.

 

[skiracer55]

Thanks, and also to Spaceman_Spiff...

I also agree with ski man on this.

...the whole idea is that you're hitting an approach, and what John Newcombe said of the approach is that it's like hitting an 8-iron to the green in golf. If you hole out, hurray for you, but all you're really trying to do is getting it close to the pin so you can one-putt. So this approach shot situation isn't a whole lot different from any others where the objectives are, in this order:

#1, Get it in.

#2, Don't do anything stupid.

#3, if possible put your opponent in the Hurt Locker, but...

...when in doubt, see #1, and move in to the net...

 

[LeeD]

Basic coverage tenet in doubles tennis.
Ball hit deep, you move forwards.
Ball hit short, you play defensive positioning just inside the service line.
Ball hit right, your team covers to the right.
Ball hit left, your team covers to the left.
Ball hit dead center between your opponents, you cover the middle.
Nobody is allowed to plant his feet and take up residence anywhere on the court.

 

[J011yroger]

heard this one today
experience is what you get AFTER you need it:shock:

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

J