To all you league doubles enthusiasts who get upset when their partner misses.

[FatHead250]

*or makes or keeps making bad tactical decisions*

Why would you care? It's not you missing it's him. How does that affect you? I wouldn't care if they made 20 mistakes in a row. Im a person with an education in math, and I know that even when the odds of making a mistake are low, 20 mistakes in a row can happen. It wouldn't bother me a bit. If your partner has lost confidence and is beating themselves up for those mistakes I would just try and show the partner that I really don't care if she misses or not, because I'm not. We as humans are inherently selfish and normally care about our own performance. But, we're social creatures and feel down when we feel like we're letting somebody else down, like the partner A who sees their partner B is upset by their perfimance so partner As perfomance drops, and there's no way for partnerB to hide their annoyance or frustration. If they miss, and you feel annoyed, and you expect them to do better, you're putting pressure on them, and they're not going to play better. So ask yourself, why do you care? No pro would care. The better a pro plays, the less they care about misses.

In the professional sport, no one cares if their teammate misses a lot. If they lose a second round amtch and the partner ruined everything they wouldn't care and just go practice with them tomorrow like they would otherwise. If they're playing a big final like Wimbledon, and one partner messes up a lot, the other professional partner would only feel bad for them, and not be annoyed and feeling bad about the whole situation. A human, a selfish creature, doesn't feel bad when he's not at fault for something going astray. If you do, you're not a professional and youre not that intelligent. But, we're empathetical creatures, so if we genuinely like our partner (which is a rarity in league), we feel bad for them when they mess up a big victory. So maybe, when you're mad you lost a big match, you just don't give a **** about your partner? I bet it is.

League players like you amuse me when they say how they're mad they're losing in doubles and are frustrated, if its anything else other than self centered (which is a normal human behaviour). Get better at tennis and you will stop caring about your partner messing up. Acknowledge that you're a selfish but empathetical creature and ask yourself a question - why do you feel anything if your team is losing unless you just feel bad for your partner? If a big trophy is slipping out of your hands, but it's not your fault, you SHOULDN'T Care.

Do you agree? If there's anything I need to clarify, feel free to ask me questions.

 

[Creighton]

Yeah this is completely wrong. Quit missing so many shots and your partners won’t get frustrated with you.

 

[silentkman]

*or makes or keeps making bad tactical decisions*

Why would you care? It's not you missing it's him. How does that affect you? I wouldn't care if they made 20 mistakes in a row. Im a person with an education in math, and I know that even when the odds of making a mistake are low, 20 mistakes in a row can happen. It wouldn't bother me a bit. If your partner has lost confidence and is beating themselves up for those mistakes I would just try and show the partner that I really don't care if she misses or not, because I'm not. We as humans are inherently selfish and normally care about our own performance. But, we're social creatures and feel down when we feel like we're letting somebody else down, like the partner A who sees their partner B is upset by their perfimance so partner As perfomance drops, and there's no way for partnerB to hide their annoyance or frustration. If they miss, and you feel annoyed, and you expect them to do better, you're putting pressure on them, and they're not going to play better. So ask yourself, why do you care? No pro would care. The better a pro plays, the less they care about misses.

In the professional sport, no one cares if their teammate misses a lot. If they lose a second round amtch and the partner ruined everything they wouldn't care and just go practice with them tomorrow like they would otherwise. If they're playing a big final like Wimbledon, and one partner messes up a lot, the other professional partner would only feel bad for them, and not be annoyed and feeling bad about the whole situation. A human, a selfish creature, doesn't feel bad when he's not at fault for something going astray. If you do, you're not a professional and youre not that intelligent. But, we're empathetical creatures, so if we genuinely like our partner (which is a rarity in league), we feel bad for them when they mess up a big victory. So maybe, when you're mad you lost a big match, you just don't give a **** about your partner? I bet it is.

League players like you amuse me when they say how they're mad they're losing in doubles and are frustrated, if its anything else other than self centered (which is a normal human behaviour). Get better at tennis and you will stop caring about your partner messing up. Acknowledge that you're a selfish but empathetical creature and ask yourself a question - why do you feel anything if your team is losing unless you just feel bad for your partner? If a big trophy is slipping out of your hands, but it's not your fault, you SHOULDN'T Care.

Do you agree? If there's anything I need to clarify, feel free to ask me questions.

You actually amuse me. The typical know it all.

 

[FatHead250]

You actually amuse me. The typical know it all.

Please, can you provide one example, where in a televised doubles match one pro got frustrated with his partner? Just one.

But it happens all the time. My partners abuse me constantly. Telling me to guard my line, stop playing to the net player, stop going to the net, etc. You name it

I think you won't be able to do that. And my follow up question will be-then why do amateur player get upset when their partner "let's them down"? I have never in my life felt mad at my partner if he played bad.

 

[FatHead250]

Yeah this is completely wrong. Quit missing so many shots and your partners won’t get frustrated with you.

Why do you feel like your partner owes something to you? Do you imply that he misses these shots on purpose? Do you understand my argument about probabilities?

 

[silentkman]

Please, can you provide one example, where in a televised doubles match one pro got frustrated with his partner? Just one.

But it happens all the time. My partners abuse me constantly. Telling me to guard my line, stop playing to the net player, stop going to the net, etc. You name it

I think you won't be able to do that. And my follow up question will be-then why do amateur player get upset when their partner "let's them down"? I have never in my life felt mad at my partner if he played bad.

doubles are on TV rarely, but yes I have seen it in person at the Open numerous times. Stop playing doubles since you are one of the greatest players that has ever posted on this board.

 

[FatHead250]

doubles are on TV rarely, but yes I have seen it in person at the Open numerous times. Stop playing doubles since you are one of the greatest players that has ever posted on this board.

Which players have you seen do it?

 

[silentkman]

Which players have you seen do it?

dude it was almost 20 years ago on the outer courts. sheesh

 

[FatHead250]

dude it was almost 20 years ago on the outer courts. sheesh

So some college guys playing qualies. They must've been not so wise in the ways of life just then

 

[silentkman]

So some college guys playing qualies. They must've been not so wise in the ways of life just then

I'm sure how you would equate college guys and qualifying to the outer courts. during that time time, we went over the holiday weekend, round of 16.

 

[ChaelAZ]

Of course it isn't me. I rarely have issues and always play almost perfect shots.

With that, I see my job is to make my incompetent partner better, inspire them, and get the best tennis out of them I can. As they are horrifically failing, sucking the fun and excitement out of the match for me on court and all the 1000's of fans watching, I take pity on them and see it as a teachable moment. I just gently ask them to pause and consider how bad of a person they are for even being my partner and playing so horrible, only to build them up with bullying and overbearing pressure to perform. Pressure is a privilege, right Djo?

I find condescending statements really fire them up, but also like to get passive aggressive when possible.
It really makes me feel good when I can lend my superior skill and mentoring to lesser players.

 

[FatHead250]

Okay, maybe I retract myself saying that no pro would ever do that. But my question is - have that team ever started playing better?

 

[sureshs]

In the professional sport, no one cares if their teammate misses a lot.

Read what the Bryans said about what happened to them when they were going through a bad patch. They blamed each other, and ended up fighting in the hotel room after a loss.

 

[Creighton]

Why do you feel like your partner owes something to you? Do you imply that he misses these shots on purpose? Do you understand my argument about probabilities?

I applaud this level of trolling.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I accept this is a troll type thread but I also think it's a worthy discussion.

I'm the type that doesn't tolerate fools easily so while I never get mad at a partner for improper execution of a tennis shot, I will get frustrated if they consistently play tactically poor doubles.

And I'm not talking high level tactics just simple things like crossing back behind me when I poach to cover the CC. Or not switching sides when lobbed. Or staying rooted at the service line T when i've hit a shallow CC return.

I still struggle with how to broach these topics without coming off as a butthole. I'll generally not mention it if its a stranger in a mixer. Just stay in my lane. If its a person I know well, I'll mention it once in a non-judgemental way. And I try to be informative like, "When I poach i'm going to stay over on that side so I'll need you to cover the CC." Or "If you are lobbed I'll run over and get it but I'll want to hit back DTL likely, so you'll need to get over to the over side."

If its someone I've played 100's of matches with, for instance my wife, I'm more like, "For the thousandth time, if my CC return gets past the net person, get up to the net and quit hanging at the service line. They are killing us with DTL shots."

 

[WhiteOut]

If its someone I've played 100's of matches with, for instance my wife, I'm more like, "For the thousandth time, if my CC return gets past the net person, get up to the net and quit hanging at the service line. They are killing us with DTL shots."

you sleep on the couch a lot, don't you?

 

[Dartagnan64]

If its someone I've played 100's of matches with, for instance my wife, I'm more like, "For the thousandth time, if my CC return gets past the net person, get up to the net and quit hanging at the service line. They are killing us with DTL shots."

you sleep on the couch a lot, don't you?

After 35 years, she just tunes me out. That's the secret to marriage longevity.

The funny thing is, she came up to me the other day complaining about her doubles partner that would just hang out at the service line and get passed DTL over and over. I just gave her that "pot calling kettle black" look and the light finally switched on. "Your right that is super annoying when people do that. Sorry dear."

 

[FatHead250]

I accept this is a troll type thread but I also think it's a worthy discussion.

I'm the type that doesn't tolerate fools easily so while I never get mad at a partner for improper execution of a tennis shot, I will get frustrated if they consistently play tactically poor doubles.

And I'm not talking high level tactics just simple things like crossing back behind me when I poach to cover the CC. Or not switching sides when lobbed. Or staying rooted at the service line T when i've hit a shallow CC return.

I still struggle with how to broach these topics without coming off as a butthole. I'll generally not mention it if its a stranger in a mixer. Just stay in my lane. If its a person I know well, I'll mention it once in a non-judgemental way. And I try to be informative like, "When I poach i'm going to stay over on that side so I'll need you to cover the CC." Or "If you are lobbed I'll run over and get it but I'll want to hit back DTL likely, so you'll need to get over to the over side."

If its someone I've played 100's of matches with, for instance my wife, I'm more like, "For the thousandth time, if my CC return gets past the net person, get up to the net and quit hanging at the service line. They are killing us with DTL shots."

Absolutely amazing how you people write stuff like that and think you're in the right. You just said that you have to tell multiple of your partners to cover the alley because they get passed DTL. If it's such a frequent issue with you, maybe stop losing points with your return? When you tell somebody what to do - be it anything - you tie their hands behind their back and they play just not to upset you. If somebody hangs in the middle and gets passed on the line that means they want to try and poach some balls and put pressure on their opponent. If they don't react to your shallow return that means theyre maybe not that good so now you want to make them play even worse by making them doubt themselves and tie their hands? When two people walk on the court in the doubles, at the good level, they both play their own games and treat their partner in a neutral way - he's there and does what he can - and they both adjust to each other. When you say anything to your partner, he no longer plays his own game so how do you expect to win? When you offer some tactical advice during the match instead of afterwards - that is wrong as well. Because again, thats telling them what to do. Both doubles players do what THEY want to do - trying to win the way they can and used to.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

When two people walk on the court in the doubles, at the good level, they both play their own games and treat their partner in a neutral way - he's there and does what he can - and they both adjust to each other. When you say anything to your partner, he no longer plays his own game so how do you expect to win? When you offer some tactical advice during the match instead of afterwards - that is wrong as well. Because again, thats telling them what to do.

If I'm messing up by poor shot or tactical choices, I want my partner to tell me [telling me isn't offensive; it's the way some people do the telling that can be offensive].

I'm flexible enough that "my game" doesn't consist of just one shot or one strategy. I have multiples as does my partner. Maybe I'm just choosing sub-optimally but don't realize it. A good partner can right the ship.

That's different from me messing up simply because my execution is poor. My partner isn't going to fix my wayward BH. But maybe he can help me out by switching his net position to Aussie while I"m serving Ad. Or maybe switch sides. Or maybe change serve order to account for the sun. Or maybe play 2 back when I'm returning [I won't be insulted at all. In fact, I've suggested my partner do that when I'm not returning well.] Good partners and a good team will try to find cooperative solutions. Each one "playing their own games" loses out on this opportunity.

Both doubles players do what THEY want to do - trying to win the way they can and used to.

To me, that's the essence of low-level doubles: they're playing singles with two people on one side rather than one. Neither is complementing the other. Neither is shielding the other's weaknesses. They're not working as a team but as two individuals. They're not signalling, they're not conferencing, they're not conferring on what game plan to pursue, they're not maximizing their advantages or minimizing their disadvantages, etc.

The best saying that encapsulates the non-team appoach is "you play your side and I'll play mine" [and never the twain shall meet]. Those teams usually lose to teams that play as...well...a team. Even if the team-oriented pair is less-skilled.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

why do you feel anything if your team is losing unless you just feel bad for your partner?

Because I'm part of a team. Whether I'm contributing to the team doing poorly or not, I care about the group.

If a big trophy is slipping out of your hands, but it's not your fault, you SHOULDN'T Care.

If I care about the trophy, I care no matter whose fault it is. Even if it's for selfish, ego-driven reasons [which it is, in part].

 

[Curtennis]

If a big trophy is slipping out of your hands, but it's not your fault, you SHOULDN'T Care.

if a winning lottery ticket blows away in a random gust of wind, you shouldn’t care… but I bet you do.

 

[silentkman]

If its someone I've played 100's of matches with, for instance my wife, I'm more like, "For the thousandth time, if my CC return gets past the net person, get up to the net and quit hanging at the service line. They are killing us with DTL shots."

you sleep on the couch a lot, don't you?

You get MAJOR bonus points for playing with your wife. You are at a different level than me.

 

[Max G.]

It's doubles. It's often really hard to separate out whose "fault" it is, because it's the job of both partners to cover up each others' weaknesses. At least, it should be hard, unless both players are treating it like two half-court singles matches instead of one doubles match.

If my partner isn't holding serve, I could decide it's "their fault" and move on. Or I could try to help them hold serve - poach more, change positions. (Of course, I might miss some volleys or get passed down the line. Does that mean my partner getting broken is now "my fault" and I should have not done that?)

 

[Dartagnan64]

Absolutely amazing how you people write stuff like that and think you're in the right. You just said that you have to tell multiple of your partners to cover the alley because they get passed DTL. If it's such a frequent issue with you, maybe stop losing points with your return?

The shallow angle cross is a legitimate return strategy in doubles and one i use frequently as it creates a "hitting up" opportunity from the server. It works very well if the team plays it correctly. I chip and charge,my partner scoots diagonally to take away the DTL. I'm in position to take the middle floater and lob, and partner can pounce on any weak low reply.

When you tell somebody what to do - be it anything - you tie their hands behind their back and they play just not to upset you. If somebody hangs in the middle and gets passed on the line that means they want to try and poach some balls and put pressure on their opponent.

If the person lingering at the service line was trying to poach a middle ball, then I'd agree with you. I'll go cover the DTL. But it's pure lazy feet is all it is. They don't attack any ball from that position. Just wait for it to come to them. And it's compounded by the fact that I'm moving in to cover the middle ball anyway so we have two guys covering a middle floater (me with the FH) and no one covering the DTL.

If they don't react to your shallow return that means theyre maybe not that good so now you want to make them play even worse by making them doubt themselves and tie their hands?

Anyone is good enough to take 3 steps toward the net and the doubles alley. This isn't rocket science. It's court coverage.

In the end I'm communicating by telling them a) what I'm doing, b) what i expect them to do and c) why doing so puts us at an advantage.

 

[Purestriker]

Please, can you provide one example, where in a televised doubles match one pro got frustrated with his partner? Just one.

But it happens all the time. My partners abuse me constantly. Telling me to guard my line, stop playing to the net player, stop going to the net, etc. You name it

I think you won't be able to do that. And my follow up question will be-then why do amateur player get upset when their partner "let's them down"? I have never in my life felt mad at my partner if he played bad.

The Brian bothers actually got into a physical confrontation during the match. One knocked the other out. It happens.

 

[Raul_SJ]

The Brian bothers actually got into a physical confrontation during the match. One knocked the other out. It happens.

The pros go to the other extreme and bump fists after every single point. Not to discuss strategy but simply to bump fists. No need for that after every single point. Comes across as forced and phony and is quite annoying to watch.

 

[tennis tom]

The Brian bothers actually got into a physical confrontation during the match. One knocked the other out. It happens.

Fake news!?

 

[sureshs]

The Brian bothers actually got into a physical confrontation during the match. One knocked the other out. It happens.

No they fought in the hotel room after the match

 

[Steady Eddy]

Absolutely amazing how you people write stuff like that and think you're in the right. You just said that you have to tell multiple of your partners to cover the alley because they get passed DTL. If it's such a frequent issue with you, maybe stop losing points with your return? When you tell somebody what to do - be it anything - you tie their hands behind their back and they play just not to upset you. If somebody hangs in the middle and gets passed on the line that means they want to try and poach some balls and put pressure on their opponent. If they don't react to your shallow return that means theyre maybe not that good so now you want to make them play even worse by making them doubt themselves and tie their hands? When two people walk on the court in the doubles, at the good level, they both play their own games and treat their partner in a neutral way - he's there and does what he can - and they both adjust to each other. When you say anything to your partner, he no longer plays his own game so how do you expect to win? When you offer some tactical advice during the match instead of afterwards - that is wrong as well. Because again, thats telling them what to do. Both doubles players do what THEY want to do - trying to win the way they can and used to.

I get it. Whenever anyone gives you unsolicited advice, whether it's about tennis or not, now you have a dilemma. You can do what they say, even if that isn't what you want to do, or do it the way you want and risk hearing, "Now what did I tell you to do?"

It's tempting to give advice. I know a woman who swings her volleys, I feel like asking her if she knows about punching volleys and that the volley is not like a groundstroke? But, it probably wouldn't end well. Maybe someday she'll do an internet search on how to volley, or ask another player why it's so hard for her to volley? But until that day comes, I'm keeping my mouth shut.

 

[FiddlerDog]

Clearly, you're someone who does not have an NTRP rating.

 

[FatHead250]

Clearly, you're someone who does not have an NTRP rating.

Right, because im not from the US. If i were, id have already flied to where this guy maxtennis, who upvotes every hostile towards me comment, lives and beat him in straights

 

[silentkman]

Right, because im not from the US. If i were, id have already flied to where this guy maxtennis, who upvotes every hostile towards me comment, lives and beat him in straights

sheesh, you are trying too hard to be noticed. I promise to read your posts.

 

[Dartagnan64]

I get it. Whenever anyone gives you unsolicited advice, whether it's about tennis or not, now you have a dilemma. You can do what they say, even if that isn't what you want to do, or do it the way you want and risk hearing, "Now what did I tell you to do?"

It's tempting to give advice. I know a woman who swings her volleys, I feel like asking her if she knows about punching volleys and that the volley is not like a groundstroke? But, it probably wouldn't end well. Maybe someday she'll do an internet search on how to volley, or ask another player why it's so hard for her to volley? But until that day comes, I'm keeping my mouth shut.

I’d never give a partner technique advice in a match. Strategy and positioning only.

 

[Purestriker]

No they fought in the hotel room after the match

Both actually. I heard them tell both those stories on a podcast. The one you are referring too was after a match, the one where he punched him in the head was during a match they were losing. It is actually not on tape because they were out on a random court at Wimbly. But another player watching it has it film. After the injury time out they came back and won the match.

 

[Purestriker]

Fake news!?

Nope...you can hear it from both of them on the Racquet podcast from May 11, 2020.

 

[Jono123]

Its a tricky one but for the most part wont give advice during play as people can get uptight and perceive it as criticism, however, suggesting strategy is fine, like press the net etc .

I find it's best to adapt your own play to accommodate your partner's. I did this recently where he kept returning straight to the net player and setting him up to volley his weak return. Rather than suggesting he should play across court, I just dropped back two or three feet behind the service line so I could get a racquet to it.

 

[zaskar1]

i think those who blame your doubles partner for missing shots ought to stick to playing singles.
that way its pretty clear who is the deficient player.
the partner is going to do what they are going to do. you might make some strategy decisions like stay back, they might lob
watch out for the down the line shot, or serve up the middle, as i am going to try and poach the return.

i dont think the partner is going to miss shots on purpose, just to get you upset.
i have played with partners who get upset when i miss a shot, usually i block it out, but if bothers me, i choose some other partner
for future matches.
btw, those partners who complain usually don't think they can miss a shot.

its not supportive of your partner to complain about them missing shots.

z

 

[Dartagnan64]

its not supportive of your partner to complain about them missing shots.

I always try to be somewhat upbeat about missed shots. "Don't worry about it, it was the right idea." "Tough luck" I don't want my partner to be negative about execution errors as it usually just makes it worse.

But I do think its a team game and ignoring your partner isn't wise either. You should tell your partner where you expect them to go and where you expect them to be if you make a certain shot and they aren't there. They can then tell you why they didn't go there and you can determine what would work best. My whole doubles game is based on a team strategy that I know what you are going to do and where you are going to be so I can play off that. I will also tell you what I'm trying to do and hope you are bright enough to play off that.

And I'm generally not asking much. Cover open court, switch when balls go over your head, poach when I hit a good serve to the body or BH, get to the net when you get the opponent stretched out.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

And I'm generally not asking much. Cover open court, switch when balls go over your head, poach when I hit a good serve to the body or BH, get to the net when you get the opponent stretched out.

All of those sound reasonable to me but not everyone plays that way or has played enough that way to be 2nd nature.

 

[Dartagnan64]

All of those sound reasonable to me but not everyone plays that way or has played enough that way to be 2nd nature.

I agree but it doesn't hurt to nudge them a bit. I've not had many partners react badly to sound positioning advice and many will acknowledge they should have moved. And as long as they indicate they knew what they should have done and didn't do it, i won't harp on them.

If you are playing with people that want to improve their game, they are generally open to this kind of communication. If you are playing with people that have no such interest, I'm all about keeping my mouth shut and just focusing on my game.

 

[Yamin]

Start playing singles if you care about your doubles partner yelling at you. Some people care more than others. Tennis also has the most insane people of all sports I've played. I was playing low level mixed doubles a few weeks ago and an opponent smashed their racket because they got passed down the line by my female older partner? I don't even know.... Either way I wouldn't take it personally.

With that being said, I agree somewhat? Or believe, that you should be supportive when guiding your teammates. Berating them during the match doesn't help.

Not everyone has the goal/mindset of wanting to improve. Some people just want to win. Whether they're justified in their complaints and comments is something else, but there's nothing wrong with giving and receiving advice...

 

[FuzzyYellowBalls]

I get it. Whenever anyone gives you unsolicited advice, whether it's about tennis or not, now you have a dilemma. You can do what they say, even if that isn't what you want to do, or do it the way you want and risk hearing, "Now what did I tell you to do?"

It's tempting to give advice. I know a woman who swings her volleys, I feel like asking her if she knows about punching volleys and that the volley is not like a groundstroke? But, it probably wouldn't end well. Maybe someday she'll do an internet search on how to volley, or ask another player why it's so hard for her to volley? But until that day comes, I'm keeping my mouth shut.

I'm your socially awkward no swinging volley ambassador.
So, I'll tell opponents "you're swinging too much", or "just punch it" when they miss a voley against my funky stanky lefty spin shots, whether topspin or junk. Nothing ruins a swinging volley more than that spin, to move your racket against a spin you aren't even used to seeing just doubles the error rate.

The good news is, some people listen, and although I might win one or two fewer points later on, I don't have to look at the horrific action of someone fly swatting their volleys. Especially good juniors, it's the one area where their game cam be 4.5 and their volley 3.5.

Now, the older guy who thinks he has it all, especially the over-poacher who swing volleys to the fence or dumps the spin into the net, he will just try to swing harder next time to prove me wrong, and I will continue with "see, that swinging volley action just isn't helping" and so it goes, error after error.

It's really a win-win.

 

[FatHead250]

I always try to be somewhat upbeat about missed shots. "Don't worry about it, it was the right idea." "Tough luck" I don't want my partner to be negative about execution errors as it usually just makes it worse.

But I do think its a team game and ignoring your partner isn't wise either. You should tell your partner where you expect them to go and where you expect them to be if you make a certain shot and they aren't there. They can then tell you why they didn't go there and you can determine what would work best. My whole doubles game is based on a team strategy that I know what you are going to do and where you are going to be so I can play off that. I will also tell you what I'm trying to do and hope you are bright enough to play off that.

And I'm generally not asking much. Cover open court, switch when balls go over your head, poach when I hit a good serve to the body or BH, get to the net when you get the opponent stretched out.

Once again, youre telling your partner what to do. When to poach and switch sides isnt strategy, it's part of a person's doubles ability. And if a person doesnt know he shouldve moved in to poach the ball, you starting to coach him won't help.

 

[FatHead250]

I'm all about keeping my mouth shut and just focusing on my game.

And that's exactly how high-level doubles is played

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Once again, youre telling your partner what to do. When to poach and switch sides isnt strategy, it's part of a person's doubles ability. And if a person doesnt know he shouldve moved in to poach the ball, you starting to coach him won't help.

Sure it will if they don't know they're supposed to switch and are open to learning. Unfortunately, the partner doing the coaching blows it by how the message is delivered. And the partner who didn't switch might not be willing to change.

A perceptive doubles player knows when to say something and when to keep silent.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

And that's exactly how high-level doubles is played

That's because both players have trained intensely and it's likely they know exactly what to do.

You can't make that assumption with rec players.

 

[Dartagnan64]

And that's exactly how high-level doubles is played

So you think the high level players didn’t listen to coaching?

if someone lower level doesn’t know doubles 101, why should they not be coached at least to that level.

And I charge considerably less than a high level coach.

 

[Max G.]

The high level players don't get coaching in the middle of matches. I suspect lower level players are *less* receptive to mid-match coaching rather than more.

Players can improve when they step out on the practice court to work on something. But during a match is probably not a good time for that, because the key to practicing literally anything - including movement and positioning - is to first try it in a low-stakes easy situation, then repeating it a few times to build a habit, then trying it in a slightly more challenging case, building consistency, and only then trying to incorporate it into a real match. It's pointless to try to skip straight to the last step because it won't work and it'll just kill their confidence.

 

[Jono123]

Another twist in this theme is playing with partners who go for winners no matter where or what they are hitting. These guys typically have a ratio of 1/3 and only remember the one. With those characters, I will recommend a more considered approach as they try to pull off shots, Nadal himself wouldn't consider viable.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Another twist in this theme is playing with partners who go for winners no matter where or what they are hitting. These guys typically have a ratio of 1/3 and only remember the one. With those characters, I will recommend a more considered approach as they try to pull off shots, Nadal himself wouldn't consider viable.

1/3 is probably generous.