Too Much Power and pace

[Hardserve]

I had a good topspin forehand, enabling me to hit sharp angles on the court and hit with reasonable pace down the line (am a righty) with reverse forehand when I needed to flatten out the spin, that forehand would send the ball anywhere from 1-2 metres or a few or inches curving fast over the net with the topspin but I went and made a little adjustment to my footwork in hitting my groundstrokes in order to start driving instead with my legs, arm and wrist needs a rest.

Since I made the switch over to leg driving I seen a huge massive change come over my groundstrokes that is pleasing to me..

The slower loopy spinn stuff all stopped in my drives, the drives all lengthened and flattened out more, the ball is travelling like a rocket now through the court, there is plenty of power and
now I have twice the pace and my teamates are finding that pace difficult to always counter
And as a result now I get alot of short loose sitters coming out of them that they don't
normally give me..

But there is no heavy topspin anymore in my groundstrokes.

That dosen't please me too much to find I lost some of my spin now as a result of
making this advanecd change to use the legs to drive..

So Is it possible to put a decent amount of spin on your drives now that I've
switched over to using my legs?. I love the new change of pace BUT...

Should I start to panic if I hitting a series of beauutiful streaming drives with some spin
and then every now and again the drive suddenly goes all haywire, and hits a dead
flat ball out of the court (causing it to overcook the lines).

I want it flat yes, but flat with SPIN. Not flat with no spin = useless.

So Is this a normal part of the change to lose the spin and to hit beautiful 100-120 mph drives followed every now and again by hitting horrible out of control dead flat balls that power themselves out of the court?.

I made the change just a few days ago.

 

[Heroesque]

Flat means little spin. I think you mean you're hitting harder?

I've also went through this phase. Well, not through my legs (at least not intentionally). I went from a loopy forehand to deep faster shots, while using less energy and more consistency.

I seemed to have lost my spin somewhat, but that may be my very-dead-6-month-old poly strings.


Maybe you have just shifted focus from your arm and wrist to your legs?

 

[xrxpapi12]

Last year i found myself doing that more and more and my game was getting consistent and flat... then i completely forgot how to do it and im back to a pretty loopy style and every now and then attempt those old shots to figure out how they work again.....

 

[Djokovicfan4life]

There has to be some other factor here that you're unaware of. Learning to use your legs properly by itself helps you get under the ball more, meaning greater topspin. Something about your swingpath itself had to change for this to happen.

 

[papa]

First of all, your probably getting more topspin than you might think. The player is generally not in a good position to judge topspin because of their direct alignment with the path of the ball.

Now, lets assume your correct and that your shots are getting flatter than you want - what to do. I'm also going to assume you've gone to a more open stance and using a windshield wiper motion. What you really have to do is increase the path of the racquet into the ball, something many players who make the kind of switch your taking about forget to do.

Several things you might want to try. Bend the loaded (back) leg a little more. Try tapping the racquet to the court when you think your in the loaded position and check your racquet angle in a closet mirror at home - because of the angular motion into the shot you need a little steeper path. Check your grip and consider going a spec more to the western end of things - maybe half a bevel and see what happens. Another thing is to really make sure your keeping your eye on the contact spot a spec longer.

You might also have to change your strings and tension a spec to accomodate your newer motion. Maybe try a 17 or 18 or better still a hybrid using like an 18 poly on the mains and 17 sys gut on the crosses.

 

[charliefedererer]

Djokovic4life nailed it with his comments that you must have also changed your swing pattern, since the increased leg pushoff should also increase the topspin.

To generate topspin you have to swing from low to high.

Now you are not dropping your racquet head low enough while it is still behind you, and out of your sight. That racquet has to be dropped just before/as your forward swing starts in order to swing low to high and generate topspin.

 

[Hardserve]

Flat means little spin. I think you mean you're hitting harder?

I've also went through this phase. Well, not through my legs (at least not intentionally). I went from a loopy forehand to deep faster shots, while using less energy and more consistency.

I seemed to have lost my spin somewhat, but that may be my very-dead-6-month-old poly strings.

Maybe you have just shifted focus from your arm and wrist to your legs?

Well I shifted the drive from my arms now to my hips and legs because A) that's how you're supposed to be driving if you're an advanced player or you just get ripped off the court
by the top guys for driving weak.

The swing feels all nice and fliud now with this new way of hitting the ball.

The second reason for switching over from arm to leg for driving is simple, I was getting a sore wrist from all the years of arm driving because of the stressload factor....

Now I give my wrist a chance to recover and yes it is effortless to hit the ball with
the legs now and works well on grass as well as hardcourt so I'm pleased its less
work for me.

I guess I shouldn't worry about losing some spin but as long as I can make this
new way stay consistent so the inconsistency at the moment might be because I just switched.

 

[Hardserve]

There has to be some other factor here that you're unaware of. Learning to use your legs properly by itself helps you get under the ball more, meaning greater topspin. Something about your swingpath itself had to change for this to happen.

I was taught the basic split step theory by my coach and taught the double bend forehand and
the Federer one hand backhand. All I've done really is just flatten out my swingpath of my forehand
and backhand, with the old arm way, I had a good stroke, but poor balance on my feet before, now I've got good solid balance since I made the change.

Now when I hit the ball even when I hit it just half speed, I know something is different about the
swing now because of the change I made, for I did a gentle backhand yesterday in a game and it just went boom and slammed into the guy as if I had hit it hard and I didn't..

That's what's surprising about the change is the amount of power that's increased now
making my swings effortless instead of struggling as I did before with the arm to try to
generate pace, so its now alot more sensitive to overcookng the court, that's the only problem that I see.

 

[Hardserve]

First of all, your probably getting more topspin than you might think. The player is generally not in a good position to judge topspin because of their direct alignment with the path of the ball.

Now, lets assume your correct and that your shots are getting flatter than you want - what to do. I'm also going to assume you've gone to a more open stance and using a windshield wiper motion. What you really have to do is increase the path of the racquet into the ball, something many players who make the kind of switch your taking about forget to do.

Several things you might want to try. Bend the loaded (back) leg a little more. Try tapping the racquet to the court when you think your in the loaded position and check your racquet angle in a closet mirror at home - because of the angular motion into the shot you need a little steeper path. Check your grip and consider going a spec more to the western end of things - maybe half a bevel and see what happens. Another thing is to really make sure your keeping your eye on the contact spot a spec longer.

You might also have to change your strings and tension a spec to accomodate your newer motion. Maybe try a 17 or 18 or better still a hybrid using like an 18 poly on the mains and 17 sys gut on the crosses.

Are you sure about that? I use a open stance forehand, and use the semi-western grip but I use full rotation also, but now in using the semi-western, now finding it harder to get the topspin on the ball now that I've switched up to driving now with my legs and getting all this flat dead junk at the moment, there is still topspin on the ball, yes, its spinning
fast sometimes but there's too much power which is thrusting the ball too far out of the tennis court.

STRING TENSION, yes that's a good point since I made a big change... I think I've been strung up around 55-58... So the strings are fairly tight. A low tension would be a nightmare I think, the ball would just ping all over the place.

Another thing I like to add is that I'm using a TOUR 95 PRO RACQUET as well. It's known
to have a heavy frame.

It's not really my ideal racquet because its a little heavy but the coach
picked that racquet out for me to use in club compeition..

But If you go around to Western grip, you will find it harder to dig up the low balls with that kind of grip... But Semi-western, it's supposed to be a good all round grip for doing
the flat and spin with.

A coach in here might beable to help me to know how to adjust to this new change.


.

 

[xrxpapi12]

Are you sure about that? I use a open stance forehand, and use the semi-western grip but I use full rotation also, but now in using the semi-western, now finding it harder to get the topspin on the ball now that I've switched up to driving now with my legs and getting all this flat dead junk at the moment, there is still topspin on the ball, yes, its spinning
fast sometimes but there's too much power which is thrusting the ball too far out of the tennis court.


.

its all angling make sure when you know your doing that flat for power you get very low net clearance - just practice practice practice and you'll adjust

 

[ManuGinobili]

I think in the confusion state, you diagnosed your problem in a wrong way.

The leg push is supposed to help with the vertical force on the ball, which translate to topspin.

It is NOT the reason why your shot is so flat. It's your swing!

Learn to feel your racket... be aware where the rackethead is at all time. See if it is moving from low to high on ur stroke.... without vid that's the only thing I'd dare say.

The way Sampras created the mad spin on his axe is because of this low to high motion.

 

[Hardserve]

I think in the confusion state, you diagnosed your problem in a wrong way. The leg push is supposed to help with the vertical force on the ball, which translate to topspin. It is NOT the reason why your shot is so flat. It's your swing!

Learn to feel your racket... be aware where the rackethead is at all time. See if it is moving from low to high on ur stroke.... without vid that's the only thing I'd dare say.

The way Sampras created the mad spin on his axe is because of this low to high motion.

I was taught to hit in open stance on my forehand. But I was't taught to move myself around the court with open stance court movement. That's what I had to change.

 

[KenC]

It's only been a few days, maybe a few more hours on the court will help you find your correct swing with the right balance of weight transfer? I wouldn't exaggerate the weight transfer, as a little bit goes a long way. Its often only necessary to take your back foot from flat and planted to rising onto the ball of your back foot to notice a great increase in power.

Other stuff, are you using a WW finish? This incorporates a good forearm pronation that when started at the moment of impact gives that "wristy" snap which puts a lot of topspin on the ball See some slo mo videos of Federer.

Going lower in tension with strings generally gives better ball pocketing and spin. Maybe you could use a topspin oriented poly at a lower tension to enhance your spin.

Lastly, unless you are playing mostly on clay courts, the Nadal-like heavy topspin isn't any better than a driving normal topspin.

I suspect in a few weeks you'll get it all dialed in and have success with consistency.

 

[papa]

Are you sure about that? I use a open stance forehand, and use the semi-western grip but I use full rotation also, but now in using the semi-western, now finding it harder to get the topspin on the ball now that I've switched up to driving now with my legs and getting all this flat dead junk at the moment, there is still topspin on the ball, yes, its spinning
fast sometimes but there's too much power which is thrusting the ball too far out of the tennis court.

STRING TENSION, yes that's a good point since I made a big change... I think I've been strung up around 55-58... So the strings are fairly tight. A low tension would be a nightmare I think, the ball would just ping all over the place.

Another thing I like to add is that I'm using a TOUR 95 PRO RACQUET as well. It's known
to have a heavy frame.

It's not really my ideal racquet because its a little heavy but the coach
picked that racquet out for me to use in club compeition..

But If you go around to Western grip, you will find it harder to dig up the low balls with that kind of grip... But Semi-western, it's supposed to be a good all round grip for doing
the flat and spin with.

A coach in here might beable to help me to know how to adjust to this new change.


.

Yes, I am but every case can be a little different.

I don't want you to mess with the power or motion - I like both. Just going to have to adjust the path a spec to get more top - the ONLY way your going to get topspin, and you know this already, or get more topspin, is with the path of the racquet AND the face of the racquet. Sure, other things are factors but these are the two major ones.

Now, having said that, you might want to experiment with letting the ball penetrate your strike zone just a hair more so your not taking it quite as far out front. Be very careful here but you might be striking the ball just a spec too far out in front - were talking a couple of inches here so don't get carried away.

 

[Hardserve]

It's only been a few days, maybe a few more hours on the court will help you find your correct swing with the right balance of weight transfer? I wouldn't exaggerate the weight transfer, as a little bit goes a long way. Its often only necessary to take your back foot from flat and planted to rising onto the ball of your back foot to notice a great increase in power.

Other stuff, are you using a WW finish? This incorporates a good forearm pronation that when started at the moment of impact gives that "wristy" snap which puts a lot of topspin on the ball See some slo mo videos of Federer.

Going lower in tension with strings generally gives better ball pocketing and spin. Maybe you could use a topspin oriented poly at a lower tension to enhance your spin.

Lastly, unless you are playing mostly on clay courts, the Nadal-like heavy topspin isn't any better than a driving normal topspin.

I suspect in a few weeks you'll get it all dialed in and have success with consistency.

Yeah I was flat footed unfortunately when in the open stance at the moment to hit the ball because its totally new to me this way of using my legs to hit instead of my arm, I aint used to hitting with my legs split with the ball or running around the court like that, I was already taught about the back foot thing by my coach. That probably will give me the topspin I need on the ball.

I am also using a double bend forehand with a window wiper finish with full rotation
so I can get some sidespin on it as well.

 

[Hardserve]

Yes, I am but every case can be a little different.

I don't want you to mess with the power or motion - I like both. Just going to have to adjust the path a spec to get more top - the ONLY way your going to get topspin, and you know this already, or get more topspin, is with the path of the racquet AND the face of the racquet. Sure, other things are factors but these are the two major ones.

Now, having said that, you might want to experiment with letting the ball penetrate your strike zone just a hair more so your not taking it quite as far out front. Be very careful here but you might be striking the ball just a spec too far out in front - were talking a couple of inches here so don't get carried away.

Looks like I will have to trot down to the courts to experiment a bit until I find the right amount of spin. Cause I got the legs right and nicely balanced now.

 

[LeeD]

My take...
Anytime you add ball speed, you lose out on spin.
Anytime you add spin, you lose out on ball speed.
So now you have ball speed. If you want more spin, a steeper low to high swingpath, or a more western grip, or a full WW finish every forehand.

 

[jazzyfunkybluesy]

Having a heavy flat forehand is a weapon. I would mix it in with safer topspin shots. Confucious say master both.

 

[LeeD]

And you know, Slaz included, Please don't say your shots are soo superior, spinny, fast, or hard to handle.
Your shots are easy to handle, for someone YOUR level.
And anyone of a higher level would just laugh and sneer at your weak shots!
You guys DO NOT have good shots.
Good shots belong to 5.5-7 level players. You guys are not nearly there.

 

[fuzz nation]

Hardserve - It occurred to me that you mentioned finding this new leg drive only a couple of days ago. Think about that for a second. You've got a whole lot of extra power on hand, but you're using pretty much the same ingrained strokes that you've had in recent history, right? Well, if someone dropped a turbocharger under the hood of my Corrolla, I might smoke the tires a couple of times before getting used to it!

Expect to require anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months to be able to make the most of this newfound technique. If you're deriving a lot of power from your legs that you didn't have a week or two back, it will take a little while for you to develop the new instincts that you need to swing consistently with your upper half. You may find that your arm suddenly has a lot less work to do, in a good way.

Changing the muscle memory that we use for certain shots can seem to take a long time, but I think that part of the problem is that we have to un-learn the old habits before the new ones can really take hold. Stick with it and you'll probably settle in with a new swing before long. You'll probably find some new potential in some of your other shots along the way, too.

 

[Hardserve]

Hardserve - It occurred to me that you mentioned finding this new leg drive only a couple of days ago. Think about that for a second. You've got a whole lot of extra power on hand, but you're using pretty much the same ingrained strokes that you've had in recent history, right? Well, if someone dropped a turbocharger under the hood of my Corrolla, I might smoke the tires a couple of times before getting used to it!

Expect to require anywhere from a couple of weeks to a couple of months to be able to make the most of this newfound technique. If you're deriving a lot of power from your legs that you didn't have a week or two back, it will take a little while for you to develop the new instincts that you need to swing consistently with your upper half. You may find that your arm suddenly has a lot less work to do, in a good way.

Changing the muscle memory that we use for certain shots can seem to take a long time, but I think that part of the problem is that we have to un-learn the old habits before the new ones can really take hold. Stick with it and you'll probably settle in with a new swing before long. You'll probably find some new potential in some of your other shots along the way, too.

The Best thing about it is that I'm now balanced and the ball
feels GOOD and smooth to hit instead of feeling horrible.

Yes a full complete WW finish is probably what I have to do now to generate
the spin I need to keep it in the court. But I will get some practice today and see.

 

[Hardserve]

And you know, Slaz included, Please don't say your shots are soo superior, spinny, fast, or hard to handle.
Your shots are easy to handle, for someone YOUR level.
And anyone of a higher level would just laugh and sneer at your weak shots!
You guys DO NOT have good shots.
Good shots belong to 5.5-7 level players. You guys are not nearly there.

We do have one or two guys in our team who have been taught to hit with their legs
so they hit fine with me and can handle the power and return it back, but the rest of the guys
in the team are prety much still arm drivers, so they hit short and weak against the stronger
guys in the team.

Playing against the top players in the club however is no place for those who drive
with their arms.

The problem with driving with the arm is that it is tiring to do
and it can leave you open to wrist injury from all the stressload on the
arm but against other weak players they will do ok because they can
match the power level of the weaker guys who mostly use the arm, but
against the stronger guys who use the legs the arm guys will just
get tired and deliver up more shot balls and sitters and their shots
will just get ripped off the court and that's why they have trouble
trying to get past the strongest guys in the club who are all up
in the top grade.

 

[Tim Tennis]

Since I made the switch over to leg driving I seen a huge massive change come over my groundstrokes that is pleasing to me..

The slower loopy spinn stuff all stopped in my drives, the drives all lengthened and flattened out more, the ball is travelling like a rocket now through the court, there is plenty of power and now I have twice the pace and my teamates are finding that pace difficult to always counter And as a result now I get alot of short loose sitters coming out of them that they don't normally give me..

But there is no heavy topspin anymore in my groundstrokes.

That dosen't please me too much to find I lost some of my spin now as a result of
making this advanecd change to use the legs to drive..

So Is it possible to put a decent amount of spin on your drives now that I've
switched over to using my legs?. I love the new change of pace BUT...

I made the change just a few days ago.

Interesting, IMO what has happened is that by the so called "using of your legs," you have done three things. First it has improved your shoulder rotation thus creating more horizontal energy. Second it has probably smoothed out your swing path to some extent and third you have in all likelihood increased your range of motion to some extent which makes it easier to generate racquet head speed without so much stress on your arm. All three things are good. For more topspin all you have to do is modify you swing path to a more extreme low to high. Drop hit from behind the baseline and experiment with different swing paths.

It sounds like you are onto a major improvement in your game.

Ed
Tennis Geometrics

 

[Hardserve]

Interesting, IMO what has happened is that by the so called "using of your legs," you have done three things. First it has improved your shoulder rotation thus creating more horizontal energy. Second it has probably smoothed out your swing path to some extent and third you have in all likelihood increased your range of motion to some extent which makes it easier to generate racquet head speed without so much stress on your arm. All three things are good. For more topspin all you have to do is modify you swing path to a more extreme low to high. Drop hit from behind the baseline and experiment with different swing paths.

It sounds like you are onto a major improvement in your game.

Ed
Tennis Geometrics

Yes wel I'm experiencing those three things you speak about. The swing feels alot more fluid, the shoulders feel more free to rotate for increased motion, it is easier to generate racquet head speed now, this is a great way to hit the ball, the old arm way made the ball feel pretty heavy because it created that heavy arm drag and it was all the arm dragging which was giving me a sore wrist after playing and that was no fun to hit off..

So I knew I had to make that change to shift the stressload to the legs and take it off my arm and
wrist. Now my friend is tired after two hours of hitting with me today and he still using his arm to hit
so his arm gets a bit sore after a while of hitting. So he is busy straining and struggling with his arm to try to generate the spin and power while I'm not even straining at all and not walking off the court
sore in the wrist after play because all the heavy arm drag is no longer there as it used to be.

So It's been a major difference,

 

[fuzz nation]

It's especially good news that you've found that sense of balance when you swing. When that's the case, you're more free to rotate around your center of gravity than when you're sort of hunched over and your "vertical axis" tilts over too much. That better rotation is going to really energize your game.

If you had too much arm on your strokes until now, you may actually need to adjust your swing radius. It's often the case that we let the ball get too close to our bodies in order to muscle (arm) the racquet to the ball. Consider trying to hit with a contact point that's not too close, but not too far out that it will kill your balance. You may find some more freedom in your swing with that rotation and at the proper distance from your body, you'll absolutely crush the ball - not that you're not doing it already.

One of the best cues I've used for helping find good extension with ground strokes is to think of swinging around the outside half of the ball.

Gotta love it when the lights go on!

 

[TearSNFX]

I had a good topspin forehand, enabling me to hit sharp angles on the court and hit with reasonable pace down the line (am a righty) with reverse forehand when I needed to flatten out the spin, that forehand would send the ball anywhere from 1-2 metres or a few or inches curving fast over the net with the topspin but I went and made a little adjustment to my footwork in hitting my groundstrokes in order to start driving instead with my legs, arm and wrist needs a rest.

Since I made the switch over to leg driving I seen a huge massive change come over my groundstrokes that is pleasing to me..

The slower loopy spinn stuff all stopped in my drives, the drives all lengthened and flattened out more, the ball is travelling like a rocket now through the court, there is plenty of power and
now I have twice the pace and my teamates are finding that pace difficult to always counter
And as a result now I get alot of short loose sitters coming out of them that they don't
normally give me..

But there is no heavy topspin anymore in my groundstrokes.

That dosen't please me too much to find I lost some of my spin now as a result of
making this advanecd change to use the legs to drive..

So Is it possible to put a decent amount of spin on your drives now that I've
switched over to using my legs?. I love the new change of pace BUT...

Should I start to panic if I hitting a series of beauutiful streaming drives with some spin
and then every now and again the drive suddenly goes all haywire, and hits a dead
flat ball out of the court (causing it to overcook the lines).

I want it flat yes, but flat with SPIN. Not flat with no spin = useless.

So Is this a normal part of the change to lose the spin and to hit beautiful 100-120 mph drives followed every now and again by hitting horrible out of control dead flat balls that power themselves out of the court?.

I made the change just a few days ago.

Go back to basics and start from there. As a tennis player you're supposed to have a WHOLE arsenal of weapons to use against your opponent. Top spin / side spin / back spin / flat angled spin. If you're unable to generate them then learn them again. Ball feeds is the best place to start and start making small adjustments here and there.

 

[Mr_Shiver]

Fuzz nation is absolutely right. When I started using my whole body, I had the same problems as you. Adjusting my point of contact a little farther away from my body fixed this almost instantly.

 

[Hardserve]

Go back to basics and start from there. As a tennis player you're supposed to have a WHOLE arsenal of weapons to use against your opponent. Top spin / side spin / back spin / flat angled spin. If you're unable to generate them then learn them again. Ball feeds is the best place to start and start making small adjustments here and there.

I do do all those spins. But when I made that leg change, I had a flatfooted spinless flat problem because of locked shoulders.

The shoulder was locking because my back leg was planted in the wrong place. When I fixed that it turned my shoulders more into the ball and opened them up. Now the ball is more fun to hit around.

If didn't fix that little leg issue it might cause shoulder
rotator cuff issues.

.

 

[Hardserve]

One of the best cues I've used for helping find good extension with ground strokes is to think of swinging around the outside half of the ball.

Gotta love it when the lights go on![/QUOTE]

HAaha Yeah I hit the outside half too its fun, its good that I fixed my shoulders now.