Tsitsipas vs Rothenberg press

tex123

Professional
He is testing the rules in tennis and in the meantime winning by abusing them; simple as that and he's kind of proud of it.

I used to be a fan of his but totally lost respect.
Code:
P. Toilet Break
1) A player may be permitted to leave the court for a toilet break. A player is entitled
to one (1) toilet break during a best of three set match and two (2) toilet breaks
during a best of five set match. Toilet breaks should be taken on a set break and
can be used for no other purpose.
a) For doubles, each team is entitl
He's using up his entitlements. At least he reads the rules and follows it. A bit like using up your challenges? A player is entitled to challenge the call - would you say he/she is abusing it if used excessively?
 
Regardless, that seemed to Tsistipas’ intent and it flopped. He’s now definitely trying to play “whatboutery”.

The majority of the tour are on Murray’s side on this:

Sloan is a goddess; she calls it right.

First off the women can't just change their shirt in front of the whole crowd like the men do; they should be afforded MUCH more time to do what they need to do. They have time of the month issues and more actual clothing in some cases.
 

tex123

Professional
To be fair to Tsitsipas as much as I don't like him and his long breaks, he is not breaking any rules. Nadal (and Djokovic of whom I a big fan) got away with much more.

ITF and ATP need to step up and make some rules regarding these breaks and enforce them.
He also said about time between points and how players abuse them but he does not. But he focuses on himself. Right attitude.
 

Wurm

Semi-Pro
He brought up the Murray final but like... that was a final. After 2 weeks of play and 7 matches of competition against the best player in the world for the final set and he took 3mins?
I've got video of the full match and it's less than two minutes. Also, Novak went off the court too, albeit after Murray and doesn't take much, if any, longer than Murray. Once Novak returns they go straight back into play.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
You are making the assumption that this would be judged by a U.S. court.
You claimed that the poster was commiting libel by expressing his opinion regarding the published allegations of a public figure. That is not libelous. There is a stricter libel standard applied for public figures.

Every American is protected by the First Amendment.
A German court has no standing to restrict the free speech rights of citizens here!
 
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tex123

Professional
Regardless, that seemed to be Tsistipas’ intent and it flopped. He’s now definitely trying to play “whatboutery”.

The majority of the tour are on Murray’s side on this:

Reilly Opelka would like to disagree.

--------------------

“Yeah, I think it’s ridiculous. Like, I understand it’s getting press because tennis is lame and tennis media sucks and they’re terrible. But I think, Stefanos Tsitsipas – whatever,” said Opelka.

“It’s hot and humid, and for the media, the press that have never stepped foot an a tennis court in their life, have never been in the environment – couldn’t last 30 minutes out in this humidity, in this heat.

“It’s physical, our sport is. My shoes are dripping, they’re leaking sweat. To change or to go after, you know, two sets – we’re drinking, we’re hydrating a lot, we have to use the bathroom.


“To change my socks, shoes, my inserts in my shoes, shorts, shirt, everything, the whole nine yards, hat – it takes five, six minutes. Then, by the time I walk to and from the court.

“You know, I don’t know Tsitsipas, I don’t know his situation. I doubt he’s getting coached. I highly doubt it. Today, you know, I couldn’t even take my bag in to change. I’m like – ‘Guys, my clothes and shoes are in here. You can come stand in here with me if you want.’
 
You claimed that the poster was commiting libel. A poster can express his opinion regarding the published allegations of a public figure. There is a stricter libel standard for public figures.
These forums would be filled with lawsuits if this was not true. Hell just talking about "paintjobs" on rackets heheh

Now no player says they use the racket; its just they endorse the racket; all legalese.
 

OhYes

Legend
Why are Tsitsipas toilet breaks always brought up but never Djokovic toilet breaks and mto's? The double standard is hilarious.
Wow, yeah put Djokovic in spotlight even when he doesn't have any connections with this case. Will you just stfu and take your psychological issues with you ?
 

Boom-Boom

Legend
Reilly Opelka would like to disagree.

--------------------

“Yeah, I think it’s ridiculous. Like, I understand it’s getting press because tennis is lame and tennis media sucks and they’re terrible. But I think, Stefanos Tsitsipas – whatever,” said Opelka.

“It’s hot and humid, and for the media, the press that have never stepped foot an a tennis court in their life, have never been in the environment – couldn’t last 30 minutes out in this humidity, in this heat.

“It’s physical, our sport is. My shoes are dripping, they’re leaking sweat. To change or to go after, you know, two sets – we’re drinking, we’re hydrating a lot, we have to use the bathroom.


“To change my socks, shoes, my inserts in my shoes, shorts, shirt, everything, the whole nine yards, hat – it takes five, six minutes. Then, by the time I walk to and from the court.

“You know, I don’t know Tsitsipas, I don’t know his situation. I doubt he’s getting coached. I highly doubt it. Today, you know, I couldn’t even take my bag in to change. I’m like – ‘Guys, my clothes and shoes are in here. You can come stand in here with me if you want.’
Opelka is right
 
Opelka is right

" tennis is lame and tennis media sucks "

In my opinion tennis is amazing af but could always be better; media is about average but very passionate; who among them do it just for the buck? You have to love tennis to be in tennis media; just check out Gill Gross.
 

Rebel-I.N.S

Professional
I've got video of the full match and it's less than two minutes. Also, Novak went off the court too, albeit after Murray and doesn't take much, if any, longer than Murray. Once Novak returns they go straight back into play.
It was a shoddy attempt at deflection (ST was probably advised to bring it up) and fair play to Rothenberg for quashing it in real time.
 

weakera

G.O.A.T.
They are mentioned all the time lmao. Meanwhile, Nadal's mostly go under the radar, like the most recent one, at the FO SF.
Right, it's not like Nadal was clearly hurt and missed 6 months after that match or anything. He was just playing mindgames on the toilet ;)
 

weakera

G.O.A.T.
Wow, yeah put Djokovic in spotlight even when he doesn't have any connections with this case. Will you just stfu and take your psychological issues with you ?
You seem highly triggered, which is funny. I don't even know who you are.

And for the record, I have no big problem with Djokovic's breaks, assuming he isn't taking illegal substances or receiving coaching during them. I've maintained since the 2020 AO Final, during which Djokovic used gamesmanship to completely break Thiem's momentum - twice - that you don't deserve to win if you can't overcome the other guy taking a bathroom break. Murray is just sour grapes over yet another first round loss.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
He and the reporter said 3 min longer i.e Murray took 5 min. That's what I heard.
No. Reporter said Murray took less than 3 minutes to do his business in the 2012 Final. And the Philosopher replied with, "So, (I took) three minutes more? What is the issue?". Note: Tsitsipas actually took four minutes more since he was timed at 7:00.
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
Right, it's not like Nadal was clearly hurt and missed 6 months after that match or anything. He was just playing mindgames on the toilet ;)
You're seem to be confusing bathroom breaks with MTOs. :oops: Nadal was hurt so bad he had to take a leak. :-D
 

weakera

G.O.A.T.
You're seem to be confusing bathroom breaks with MTOs. :oops: Nadal was hurt so bad he had to take a leak. :-D
So because the trainer wasn't called he didn't need a break lol? What is the trainer going to do for his chronic foot condition, give it a kiss?

I guess Nadal injured his foot walking back to his car after the match.
 

canta_Brian

Professional
"When the sun comes from the side, the ball seems half the size and is just hard to hit. I never take toilet breaks, but I thought 'Why not? I just hoped that with every minute it took, the sun would move another centimeter." ~ Roger Federer
Assuming Fed used the toilet he was within the rules. That time passes is fairly obvious. That’s why other players “need” toilet breaks as well.

Fed will have realised that if the ball was hard for him to hit it would be nearly impossible for his opponent. He didn’t want the poor bloke to be hampered and for the match to be ruined for the spectators. He altruistically waits for the conditions to be easier for his opponent and all you can do is complain?
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
Reilly Opelka would like to disagree.

--------------------

“Yeah, I think it’s ridiculous. Like, I understand it’s getting press because tennis is lame and tennis media sucks and they’re terrible. But I think, Stefanos Tsitsipas – whatever,” said Opelka.

“It’s hot and humid, and for the media, the press that have never stepped foot an a tennis court in their life, have never been in the environment – couldn’t last 30 minutes out in this humidity, in this heat.

“It’s physical, our sport is. My shoes are dripping, they’re leaking sweat. To change or to go after, you know, two sets – we’re drinking, we’re hydrating a lot, we have to use the bathroom.


“To change my socks, shoes, my inserts in my shoes, shorts, shirt, everything, the whole nine yards, hat – it takes five, six minutes. Then, by the time I walk to and from the court.

“You know, I don’t know Tsitsipas, I don’t know his situation. I doubt he’s getting coached. I highly doubt it. Today, you know, I couldn’t even take my bag in to change. I’m like – ‘Guys, my clothes and shoes are in here. You can come stand in here with me if you want.’
So basically Tsitsipas has created problems for other honest tennis players who genuinely use the toilet breaks as they are intended. He must be becoming very popular on the tour.
 

Swingmaster

Hall of Fame
Rothenberg brought up the unwritten rule and the way it upsets his opponents and Tsitsipas again asked if it's in the rulebook like he had just won the argument. Sociopath. His ridiculous social media posts are a nice attempt to seem like a real human being.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
and in this case the moderator was probably correct to draw a line at impugning integrity.
Murray, Zverev, Sloane and every player under the sun are impugning his integrity. Saying his rest room breaks amounts to gamesmanship.

The press is not impugning his integrity. The press is merely posing the questions. It is THE TOPIC that needs to be discussed.

But thanks to Osaka-coddlers like you, we have this fascist moderator shutting down reporters questions in order to protect Tsitsipas' mental health. How dare they ask him about breaks. It amounts to mental cruelty.

Congratulations, you have won.
 
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Rothenberg brought up the unwritten rule and the way it upsets his opponents and Tsitsipas again asked if it's in the rulebook like he had just won the argument. Sociopath. His ridiculous social media posts are a nice attempt to seem like a real human being.
Yes this sums it up.
 

Wurm

Semi-Pro
So basically Tsitsipas has created problems for other honest tennis players who genuinely use the toilet breaks as they are intended. He must be becoming very popular on the tour.
Again, it's worth pointing out that this recent trend of taking extended bathroom breaks (has anyone checked to see if they coincide with his opponent serving first in the subsequent set?) is just part of an ongoing series of gamesmanship tricks Tsitsipas has been trying on for size over the years.

You bet players are aware that he's a dirty player and it's about time he was called out on it.
 
Again, it's worth pointing out that this recent trend of taking extended bathroom breaks (has anyone checked to see if they coincide with his opponent serving first in the subsequent set?) is just part of an ongoing series of gamesmanship tricks Tsitsipas has been trying on for size over the years.

You bet players are aware that he's a dirty player and it's about time he was called out on it.
Yeah and now us stupid fans and fellow tennis players and nerds know what he is doing on purpose.
If that's winning; then winning is not everything.
 

tex123

Professional
See this is where things get murky tho, there are plenty of things in the world that are "legal" in a general sense but common sense says you don't do them, an unwritten rule as people would say. A bathroom break in tennis should come under that same thinking and if there is no "rule" about it then what is to stop a player taking an hour? Where does the line get drawn for people? Also lets be perfectly frank, Tsitsipas either has a horrible case of the runs every match or he's not using it as a "toilet" break at all. He's using it as a rest and look at the sheer number of times he's done it recently.

Like you say, they need to make a ruling about it. My thinking would be you're allowed a 5min toilet break for 3set matches or two 5min toilet breaks for a 5 set match. Something really needs to be done.
Something needs to be done I agree. They need to define it clearly. But Tsitsipas is following the rulebook whether Andy or anyone for that matter like it or not. And if people complain, he has ammunition. All the delaying tactics by Djokovic and Nadal between points, Fed's "sun" and toilet, Andy's USO toilet break for 5 min, Djokovic toilet break 0-2 down etc. means they don't have a leg to stand on.

The rulebook says you are entitled to take two toilet breaks. He's using up his entitlement.
 
Something needs to be done I agree. They need to define it clearly. But Tsitsipas is following the rulebook whether Andy or anyone for that matter like it or not. And if people complain, he has ammunition. All the delaying tactics by Djokovic and Nadal between points, Fed's "sun" and toilet, Andy's USO toilet break for 5 min, Djokovic toilet break 0-2 down etc. means they don't have a leg to stand on.

The rulebook says you are entitled to take two toilet breaks. He's using up his entitlement.
Well said.
 

tex123

Professional
So basically Tsitsipas has created problems for other honest tennis players who genuinely use the toilet breaks as they are intended. He must be becoming very popular on the tour.
Name the honest tennis players.

Is it Nadal or Djokovic who take time between points and also take well timed toilet breaks to disrupt opponent's rhythm? Djokovic is the king of toilet breaks.
Or is it Federer who famously used the sun to his advantage by taking a toilet break?

Once you've set a precedent and the rulebook says you can, no one can bring gamesmanship to the argument. This is because they all play with gamesmanship despite the no of Stefan Edberg awards they've won. Tsitsipas can say he does not take time between points. Just because you are allowed 20-25 seconds does not mean you should take 20-25 seconds. We are talking about an unwritten imaginary rule that players have created.
 
Name the honest tennis players.

Is it Nadal or Djokovic who take time between points and also take well timed toilet breaks to disrupt opponent's rhythm? Djokovic is the king of toilet breaks.
Or is it Federer who famously used the sun to his advantage by taking a toilet break?

Once you've set a precedent and the rulebook says you can, no one can bring gamesmanship to the argument. This is because they all play with gamesmanship despite the no of Stefan Edberg awards they've won. Tsitsipas can say he does not take time between points. Just because you are allowed 20-25 seconds does not mean you should take 20-25 seconds. We are talking about an unwritten imaginary rule that players have created.
No; well said but No
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Tsits clearly has zero logic in his argument that there is no time limit, so he didn't break rules.

so he'll sit in the WC for 15 min the next time.... when does his brain comprehend the spirit behind the letter of the law?
this is not a few seconds... it's a matter of minutes
How about tennis sets clear rules and enforces them so we don't have to leave so much for "interpreting" things? Control mechanisms have a purpose precisely because there are people like Tsits who just don't give a crap and will abuse the rules as much as they can.

Include 1-2 point penalty for MTO and toilet breaks (would get rid of about 80% of them), and the latter can last 5 minutes max.

Also enforce the time rule so we don't get another Nadal on our hands in the future.
 

tex123

Professional
It's less than two minutes. I will respond to every single post I see giving out a time that's demonstrably horse sh*t.
It's less than three minutes. I will respond to every single post I see giving out a time that's demonstrably horse sh*t. :D

My bad for 5 min. In the video, the reporter says less than three minutes. You can watch it. Point still stands. To some 3 min is too long. You can do in 1 minute, no? Plus he gave himself a pep talk. That broke the rules which explicitly state it must be used just for that purpose.
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
"Honest" toilet breaks and MTOs constitute for about 10% and I'm probably being generous.

They're used as momentum breakers vast majority of the time, let's be honest here.
Not arguing that. What are the chances that some players have to pee in every match, and especially when they’re losing?
I’m just saying that when a player genuinely needs to relieve himself now is going to be in trouble as Opelka pointed out.
 

OhYes

Legend
You seem highly triggered, which is funny. I don't even know who you are.

And for the record, I have no big problem with Djokovic's breaks, assuming he isn't taking illegal substances or receiving coaching during them. I've maintained since the 2020 AO Final, during which Djokovic used gamesmanship to completely break Thiem's momentum - twice - that you don't deserve to win if you can't overcome the other guy taking a bathroom break. Murray is just sour grapes over yet another first round loss.
Lol, just don't speak about illegal substances with operacion Puerto crawling under Nadals feet. Nadal being injured millions of times but showing up healthy in spring, jumping around like rabbit in front of his opponents trying to intimidate them, guy who takes most time before serve, breaks rules and always gets away with it, uncle Toni who threatens umpires and who not, so many things Nadal would get accused from my side if only I would give a fck.
Also Idk who the hell are you, but here you are when you need to badmouth Djokovic bcs he has better resume than your cheating Bull
 

zagor

Bionic Poster
Not arguing that. What are the chances that some players have to pee in every match, and especially when they’re losing?
I’m just saying that when a player genuinely needs to relieve himself now is going to be in trouble as Opelka pointed out.
That's why you introduce a point penalty for a toilet break. If you really need to go, you'll still go.
 

Wurm

Semi-Pro
It's less than three minutes. I will respond to every single post I see giving out a time that's demonstrably horse sh*t. :D
I've explicitly watched it to check and it's less than TWO minutes. The reporter is technically right but is not accurate.

I knew this would happen. People don't fact check things for themselves.
 
My bad for 5 min. In the video, the reporter says less than three minutes. You can watch it. Point still stands. To some 3 min is too long. You can do in 1 minute, no? Plus he gave himself a pep talk. That broke the rules which explicitly state it must be used just for that purpose.
No one normal gives a damn.
 

Spencer Gore

Hall of Fame
A legal toilet break of max five minutes from leaving court to start of play at the end of the second set and the end of the fourth set. No exceptions.

Problem solved.
 

Arak

Hall of Fame
Djokovic fans: what’s wrong with using the toilet to disrupt the opponent’s momentum? We don’t see the problem :unsure:
 

tex123

Professional
Well, no one gives a damn what Murray did in 2012. All people care about is what's happening now.
Why? Because it is uncomfortable? Because he looks like a hypocrite? What is happening now is a result of what people have done in the past.

People living in glass houses ... comes to mind.
 
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