What is required for Nadal and Djokovic to remove all doubt?
- Thread starter mxmx
- Start date
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
25 majors and they will establish themselves as alpha males. Anything short , their every minute of life - Federer book and Federer are the reference points
Fed didn’t stop at 14 - he has set the bar at 20
chimneysweep
Semi-Pro
Like I said in another thread GOAT debates in tennis will exist forever. People are too obsessed with them for them to end. Someone could win 40 majors, and people will say that is sure proof their competition sucked to keep the GOAT debate going.
People are happy to forget Sampras and have Federer wipe him out, since Sampras was always boring and unpopular anyway. Otherwise people would still be trying to find ways to argue Sampras up against Federer despite Federer dwarfing most of his achievements and being up in slams 20 to 14.
People are happy to forget Sampras and have Federer wipe him out, since Sampras was always boring and unpopular anyway. Otherwise people would still be trying to find ways to argue Sampras up against Federer despite Federer dwarfing most of his achievements and being up in slams 20 to 14.
For Nadal, just stay ahead of Djokovic in Major count and Masters 1000 count and keep winning FO to stop Nole getting a 2nd FO.
For Djokovic if he wins 2nd FO and Olympic Gold he is GOAT.
So in summary it boils down to FO.
Federer out of the race now. That now seems to be coming from most experts in recent days, unless he wins majors again, but i cannot see it now.
weeks at no.1 is meaningless...YE1 is much more important.
I'm not a Roger fan, but how can you not see him winning another Major? He just had two match points in a Major and physically looked as good as ever.
Ann
Hall of Fame
They need to save kitties and puppies from a burning building.
Because he has not won USO in over 10 years, he will never beat Djokovic or Nadal at AO or FO, and Wimbledon is 12 months away and he will be almost 39 and highly unlikely to be at the level he is now.
O
OhYes
Guest
Ok let me put it this way - if some tennis coaches or former players consider Djokovic as a GOAT now, because he had much tougher opposition on his rise and much tougher opponents in Slams he won, why would Djokovic need to surpass Federer in Slam count at all ? He can just get to 20 or just be ahead of Nadal.
For Nadal's case I have no clue.
For Nadal's case I have no clue.
chimneysweep
Semi-Pro
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Whoever gets the slam record (and keeps it when they're all retired) will have the unofficial title, right now the magic number is 21.
Ann
Hall of Fame
FINALLY! We have a definitive answer.
Bless you Red Rick, stand proud and tall.
End of discussion, no further GOAT threads allowed EVER!
Sephiroth
Hall of Fame
For either Novak and Rafa to be goat they would need to just win more slams over Federer given it's just slams that matter to those 3 these days. Just being equal is not gonna cut it with most tennis fans I think.
So atm it's 21. But Fed could add making things obviously more harder since he's a moving target, not like Sampras who was a stationary target to reach so more easier to surpass.
So atm it's 21. But Fed could add making things obviously more harder since he's a moving target, not like Sampras who was a stationary target to reach so more easier to surpass.
MugOpponent
Hall of Fame
I don't think it's implausible at all. His last slam win was a very weak field at the AO 2018. For whatever reason Djokovic wasn't really anywhere near his top level in this Wimbledon final. I think it's a lot, a lot more difficult to recover mentally from a loss like this at 37 than in your twenties. There's a pretty good chance Roger will never recover from it.
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TheMaestro1990
Hall of Fame
1) Equal or more GS titles
2) Equal or more weeks as number 1
3) Equal or more WTF titles
2) Equal or more weeks as number 1
3) Equal or more WTF titles
Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
For Djokovic, it’s surpassing most of Federer’s records, i.e. slams, weeks at No 1, YECs.
For Nadal, it’s a fair amount more.
For Nadal, it’s a fair amount more.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
mxmx
Hall of Fame
Ok...this sounds like something a Federer fan would say. It's a circular argument though. If Sampras could not be defended when Federer surpassed him as "apparent" GOAT, then the same standards should be kept if Nadal or Djokovic surpasses him.
Will Federer fans accept 21 grand slams as greater than achievements than Federer? I doubt it.
Or am I wrong?
Mainad
Bionic Poster
Indigo
Professional
Novak needs one more year to become the most dominant player with the most number of weeks at No.1. In two or three years he might have more slams than Federer as well including WTFs. He already has more big titles than Federer, all Masters, four in a row, more consecutive wins in a season. So one day this question will not be asked at all because ND will surpass Federer if you're objective about tennis. Of course Roger will always be liked as a romantic champion among his fans and tennis lovers but in terms of pure tennis achievements he will not be the greatest. Numbers, maths and pure science will not be his friends. Also, some bitter losses will always sting Federer as well as h2h in slams and otherwise against his biggest rivals. The thing is that Roger was crowned GOAT by media, sponsors and fans well before it was all over and people believed in that. Some myths are not easily busted because people don't easily change what they've been thought or witnessed at one moment. Now, since the interest in tennis is also declining, as well as hype, Novak just can't establish himself as greater that Fed among the masses. But when all put on paper one day Novak > Fed. In 10 years on this forum things will cool off, there will be some other guys playing tennis and commentators will be more objective as well, more realistic unless of course they are in love with some player, and love is blind as we all know...
R
Robert Baratheon
Guest
Djokovic needs to have 3 more kids to surpass Federer, not counting the bãstãrds he has throughout the globe.
Nadal needs to have 5 more human offsprings. Okay I will accept him as greater if he ties Federer with 4. Nadal's cåpybara babies will serve as the tiebreaker.
Nadal needs to have 5 more human offsprings. Okay I will accept him as greater if he ties Federer with 4. Nadal's cåpybara babies will serve as the tiebreaker.
weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
Wow, how will Roger ever recover from this?
TripleATeam
G.O.A.T.
1. To convince most of GOAThood, Djokovic would need 22 slams + 6-7 WTF + 7 YE#1 + 350+ weeks at #1 + 90+ overall titles. I feel like most would agree if Djokovic had this, he would be ahead. Certainly some would disagree, but then there always will be.
2. Nadal would need another slam win off-clay, (preferably Wimbledon). 23 slams + 2 WTF + 6 YE#1 + 310+ weeks at #1 + 90+ overall titles.
2. Nadal would need another slam win off-clay, (preferably Wimbledon). 23 slams + 2 WTF + 6 YE#1 + 310+ weeks at #1 + 90+ overall titles.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
There is nothing they can do. Just as there is nothing Fed could do. No one will ever agree on the GOAT, and we should not have to. It is a mythical and unattainable adjective.
The Blond Blur
G.O.A.T.
Something about the slems 
herronpaul
Rookie
Your getting confused with Nadal who has never beaten djokovic at AO and not won AO or Wimbledon in 10 years and has never won the WTF as he can't handle 8 good players in a drW and can only handle 1 good player in a final or at best 2 good players 1 sf and 1 f
Nadal may never beat Djokovic or fed on grass or hard court ever again. Over 10 years since done both... Or technically never beaten djokovic on grass
RelentlessAttack
Hall of Fame
Nadal doesn’t have a shot. Weeks at #1, YE#1, YECs aren’t there, and hesbbeen dominated by his rivals the past 5 years. He’ll go down comfortably as the Clay GOAT and top tier ATG. Djokovic on the other hand is much closer to surpassing Federer than I ever thought would be possible, though competition on the men’s side since 2014 has been abysmal.
Mark-Touch
Legend
Djoker and Nadal each need two sets of twins (children, not tennis sets) to even enter into this discussion.
Mark-Touch
Legend
titoelcolombiano
Legend
1000% this! It will become more and more evident as the next few years play out. It’s like everyone forgot the two coming behind him we’re better and we’re five/six years behind in achievements because of their age.
Mike Sams
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic was better in 2015 Wimbledon. He was battle hardened for the final that year due to his tough 5 set win against Kevin Anderson earlier in the week. This year he didn't play anyone leading to the final. So it was difficult to jump to a high level all of a sudden mentally and physically. I don't know if Djokovic would've won Wimbledon if Nadal had been in his side of the draw. Going through Nadal and Federer back to back would've been fairly tough based on their forms on grass. Could've been back to back 5 setters.
clout
Hall of Fame
GOAT debates will go on till the end of time. In hockey, Wayne Gretzky holds a gazillion records, many of which will never be broken (at least not in my lifetime), and some still say he isn't the greatest. Detractors tend to say he played in a weak era where talent pools weren't as deep and it was easier to score a lot of points, his teams were always stacked and other GOAT candidates like Orr and Lemieux had similar peaks but not the same longevity due to injuries hence many believe had they remained healthy, they would've beaten a lot of Wayne's records.
clout
Hall of Fame
IMO though:
If Novak gets: 5 more majors, 2 more WTFs, 50 more weeks at number one, 1/2 more year-end number ones, and 1/2 more multi-slam seasons than he's easily the GOAT. Another Nole Slam and he'd only have to get to 20 to be the GOAT
If Nadal gets: 3 more majors, 1/2 more year-end number ones, 1/2 more multi-slam seasons, double career slam, 230-250 weeks at number one. It comes down to distribution for Rafa since that's his one "weak link" in the debate compared to Fed and Djoker. If he can get to 21 by having a distribution like 2-13-3-3 then that'd look a lot better than say 1-14-2-3
If Novak gets: 5 more majors, 2 more WTFs, 50 more weeks at number one, 1/2 more year-end number ones, and 1/2 more multi-slam seasons than he's easily the GOAT. Another Nole Slam and he'd only have to get to 20 to be the GOAT
If Nadal gets: 3 more majors, 1/2 more year-end number ones, 1/2 more multi-slam seasons, double career slam, 230-250 weeks at number one. It comes down to distribution for Rafa since that's his one "weak link" in the debate compared to Fed and Djoker. If he can get to 21 by having a distribution like 2-13-3-3 then that'd look a lot better than say 1-14-2-3
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