Which retail version racket is closest to the actual Federer's?
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SwankPeRFection
Hall of Fame
Some will say K90 and some will say it hasn't changed since the first switch to 90 he made back in the day.
Who knows what the composition is. Bottom line is this. Dimensionally, it's the same as any of the retail 90s. Pick your favorite and customize it to his weight and SW. You may however not be able to play with it though.
I will say this. When he had the K90, his shots were crisp, fast and deadly at time. That racquet was raw. When he switched to the first BLX, that's when he started to not win so much. His shots slowed down a bit and that raw pace we used to see with the K90 just didn't seem to be there anymore. Then the new ProStaff came out this year and if you saw him hit with it, some of that K90 pace was back. Now, if you've ever hit with the BLX and then the new ProStaff retails, you'd know that the new ProStaff has better power and is easier to generate racquet head speed with. Would this matter much when his customized SW and heft is always the same?... Maybe not, but it can't be complete coincidence that all of a sudden he's hitting again like he used to with the K90.
Anyway, take away what you want from this, but it's what I've observed in the past 3+ years.
Who knows what the composition is. Bottom line is this. Dimensionally, it's the same as any of the retail 90s. Pick your favorite and customize it to his weight and SW. You may however not be able to play with it though.
I will say this. When he had the K90, his shots were crisp, fast and deadly at time. That racquet was raw. When he switched to the first BLX, that's when he started to not win so much. His shots slowed down a bit and that raw pace we used to see with the K90 just didn't seem to be there anymore. Then the new ProStaff came out this year and if you saw him hit with it, some of that K90 pace was back. Now, if you've ever hit with the BLX and then the new ProStaff retails, you'd know that the new ProStaff has better power and is easier to generate racquet head speed with. Would this matter much when his customized SW and heft is always the same?... Maybe not, but it can't be complete coincidence that all of a sudden he's hitting again like he used to with the K90.
Anyway, take away what you want from this, but it's what I've observed in the past 3+ years.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Yeah, I don't think this has anything to do with it at all. His frames, from what we know are still the same as the K90.
What we don't know if their internal composition is the same as the retail model was. The K90 was a fantastic frame and very different to the BLX which there's no way he used imo.
To recreate the closest playing characteristics of his frame you'd do best to start with a K90 and modify it from there with weight - the weight and balance info can be found on a previous thread here - added by someone who has multiple actual Federer frames.
aceroberts13
Professional
Google the 'Big Bubba' by Gamma. Fed has used it for over a decade now draped in a Wilson cloak.
ricki
Hall of Fame
What a bullcrap you write? He didnt swith K-BLX-Blx prostaff, those are only paintjobs of his racquet that he uses for like 10 years now.
Rusty669
Semi-Pro
The racket closest to his is probably the K90 or the versions thereafter.
Regarding the ncode 90 and the previous models which were available to the general public, I believe they had 5 strings on the PWS and a longer handle pallet. Fed's racket however always had 4 strings in the PWS and a shorter pallet.
These changes were updated for the general public with the release of the K90 in early 2007, so that the outer appearance of the racket resembles Roger's 100%.
Now, regarding the inner lay-up of his racket, we can only guess.
I personally believe that his racket must feel something like the raw K90 or maybe the new Pro Staff BLX 90, as the BlX 90 was a bit softer. I can only imagine that Fed prefers a more direct feeling from his racket, this is however pure speculation.
Regarding the ncode 90 and the previous models which were available to the general public, I believe they had 5 strings on the PWS and a longer handle pallet. Fed's racket however always had 4 strings in the PWS and a shorter pallet.
These changes were updated for the general public with the release of the K90 in early 2007, so that the outer appearance of the racket resembles Roger's 100%.
Now, regarding the inner lay-up of his racket, we can only guess.
I personally believe that his racket must feel something like the raw K90 or maybe the new Pro Staff BLX 90, as the BlX 90 was a bit softer. I can only imagine that Fed prefers a more direct feeling from his racket, this is however pure speculation.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
I wouldn't be surprised if the PS 6.0 85 is the closest to his actual racquet in feel. Federer used the PS 6.0 85 for a long time so he probably wanted the same feel. It's possible that Wilson made him basically a PS 6.0 85 with a 90 sq. in. head. IMO, none of the Tour 90 models (PS Tour 90, nCode 90, K90, BLX 90, PS 6.1 90) have the exact same sweet feel as the China version of the PS 6.0 85. This is just speculation, of course, based on feel. Most pros tend to want to stay with the feel they are accustomed to.
Devilito
Hall of Fame
I think he's moved on. Once he switched to the 90 you can see over time how his strokes changed from penetrating / flatter with more power to whippy and extreme spin. The PS85 doesn't have the feel for the type of shots he hits now compared to say 2001 when he beat Petros at Wimbledon. Not saying it's necessarily better, it's just different.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Yeah, but that has nothing to do with the feel. Once you get used to the feel of a racquet and you like it, you don't want to change that feel that you get regardless of what else you do to your game.
BTW, Federer's coach, Tony Roche, was once quoted saying that Federer uses a PS 6.0 85 but with a slightly bigger head.
Devilito
Hall of Fame
yeah but Roche isn't a tennis racquet engineer. To most people, it's completely reasonable to describe the Six One Tour (PS 90) as a "PS85 with a slightly bigger head"
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Well, I'm sure Tony Roche has hit with a PS 6.0 85 and has hit with Federer's racquet, and having played tennis for over 50 years, I'm sure he can tell if they had the same feel or not. None of the retail Tour 90's have the same feel as the PS 6.0 85 - some closer than others but still not the same and any experienced player should be able to discern the feel difference.
PrinceMoron
Legend
I gave up on tour 90s, just not what I was looking for ie a PS85 so no good for me. Had to go for extreme string jobs to replicate the feel.
He's using the same racquet he's used since he went pro. The only changes would be strings/tension/lead. Otherwise I guarantee you it's the same mold and same composition.
Fed Kennedy
Legend
But this is totally false, you can see with the naked eye he has gone through changes in shape and string pattern
Say Chi Sin Lo
G.O.A.T.
Why do people search day and night for Federer's actual Pro Staff?
Find the one you like, and play with it. It's not like people will notice you are using Federer's Pro Staff and instantly related you to him.
Find the one you like, and play with it. It's not like people will notice you are using Federer's Pro Staff and instantly related you to him.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Tony Roche also once said Pat Cash was the best serve and volley player in the history of tennis.
While I don't discount he's hit with Federer's actual frame, I do doubt his call on it. From the evidence we have seen (actual frames) his current frame is closest to the K6.1 Tour. The internal composition however is a mystery so far. Unless someone gets hold of a broken Federer frame one at some stage we may not know for a while.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Absolutely. I've used the PS85 for well over 20 years and nothing has really come all that close in terms of feel*. I think the closest off-the-shelf frame I found in the past couple of years was actually a Dunlop. The K6.1 Tour however is a nice frame - way better feel than the BLX imo.
(Note: I never got a chance to try at KPS88 so maybe that was closer)
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
I would think that to get as close as humanly possible to the feel of the PS 6.0 85, Wilson would have to make the composition of Federer's racquet exactly the same as that of the PS 6.0 85.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
It comes somewhat close but the KPS88 feels much stiffer and the weight distribution and/or balance makes it feel much heavier.
PrinceMoron
Legend
Yes, huge top and plough thru on forehand, crazy really, but hard to get round on the backhand side.
This is the answer, and I myself have said this many times and have heard this from a lot of people also IRL.
Years ago, here, I have post that Tony Roche once said that Fed racket is a PS85 with 90". Nothing more than that.
The exactly specs... some time ago I could reach his frames and take some specs of it, but from some guys that have strung his rackets in tournaments where P1 wasn't present, they have told me that his frames are now with less weight in the handle.
In the middle of the last season(clay), one stringer told me that the overall weight was around 350grams, but more head heavy. So I guess some weight was taken from the handle.
This year the same stringer confirm it again.
More, some pics that have been posted here of his rackets, with +-364grams, was from some years ago, but before that, I could reach his rackets and measure more or less the same weight, and I have post it here, in that post most users have said that wasn't true, but with the pics that was proven.
If you search you can find those posts.
But now it seems that his rackets are lighter. But once again more users will tell you that isn't true... until some pics are shown...
Wilson must sell rackets in the name of Roger, with those claimed specs... so you will have to face Wilson sellers and some other here that doesn't want you and others to know that Fed frames aren't available in the retail market... capiche?
The exactly specs... some time ago I could reach his frames and take some specs of it, but from some guys that have strung his rackets in tournaments where P1 wasn't present, they have told me that his frames are now with less weight in the handle.
In the middle of the last season(clay), one stringer told me that the overall weight was around 350grams, but more head heavy. So I guess some weight was taken from the handle.
This year the same stringer confirm it again.
More, some pics that have been posted here of his rackets, with +-364grams, was from some years ago, but before that, I could reach his rackets and measure more or less the same weight, and I have post it here, in that post most users have said that wasn't true, but with the pics that was proven.
If you search you can find those posts.
But now it seems that his rackets are lighter. But once again more users will tell you that isn't true... until some pics are shown...
Wilson must sell rackets in the name of Roger, with those claimed specs... so you will have to face Wilson sellers and some other here that doesn't want you and others to know that Fed frames aren't available in the retail market... capiche?
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SwankPeRFection
Hall of Fame
Learn to read and comprehend. People believe that it's been paint jobs and I could care less. What I said is that you could see a power and devastation drop off to his shots when it was painted as the BLX. Either he slacked off for those years or paint sure seems to make a difference.
We all know the power off the BLX wasn't as good as the K or new ProStaff without putting a ton of effort into it. That's all I'm saying. Coincidence or not, watch the matches and pay close attention.
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
Actually, I haven't noticed the power of the BLX90 to be any lower than that of the new PS 6.1 90.Learn to read and comprehend. People believe that it's been paint jobs and I could care less. What I said is that you could see a power and devastation drop off to his shots when it was painted as the BLX. Either he slacked off for those years or paint sure seems to make a difference.
Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
If I had to guess; it would be the PS 85 racket. He started using this racket when he was a teen and continued to use it for some time into the tour as a pro. Most of the tour players use the same racket they had as teens so I would think that it is a mold that is in a 90 size but has the same feel as the PS 85!
Sincerely, I don't really understand all this fuzz about finding the Federer's raquet clone... What for do you want one? His specs might be the ideal ones for him, but not for others, as well as the terms of feel - he might like it, which does not mean other people should like it....
People should focus more on what is more adequate for THEMSELVES, rather on the specs of the pro's....the raquet choice is a very personal thing, and one should only be aware of what he likes, not others.
Anyhow, having Roger's stick won't give you his abilities, and that is all that matters...
People should focus more on what is more adequate for THEMSELVES, rather on the specs of the pro's....the raquet choice is a very personal thing, and one should only be aware of what he likes, not others.
Anyhow, having Roger's stick won't give you his abilities, and that is all that matters...
BreakPoint
Bionic Poster
But many people are interested not because they want to use the exact same spec racquet as Federer. They would just like to know out of sheer curiosity.
SwankPeRFection
Hall of Fame
There is a difference for me. I can get much more pace on my shots without as much work as was needed with the BLX. This was te first thing I noticed that had improved for me because of the slightly lower SW on the PS. This however threw off my serve power just a bit until I adjusted my timing a bit. With that done, power or rather pace on those shots has improved some too. It's not a huge difference, but it's certainly noticeable.
sixone90
Hall of Fame
That wouldn't be the difference between teh BLX and the PS, that would be the difference in Wilson's QC
DavaiMarat
Professional
Wow. Too think I actually thought he was still using the pro staff tour 90....
dude look up paint jobs.
DavaiMarat
Professional
Learn to read and comprehend. People believe that it's been paint jobs and I could care less. What I said is that you could see a power and devastation drop off to his shots when it was painted as the BLX. Either he slacked off for those years or paint sure seems to make a difference.
Your point is moot then. Why compare generations when you don't even know what's under the paint. Pointless post is pointless.
SwankPeRFection
Hall of Fame
Not my fault you can't feel the difference and after trying 5 different ps90 is comparison to 6 BLXs, I think it's fair to say the PS90 swings around quicker and it has nothing to do with Wilson messing up on the balance point.
Learn to spell. TO THINK!
Also, I know all about the paint job threads you koolaid boys drink on here. Fact is, not one person who's been in possession of an RF racquet has even taken a grip off to look at things. So until people can show absolute proof, I'll go with what I'm seeing. Fact remains that there's only one way to make a damn 90. Mold is the same, composition could be different and unique for him, but it wouldn't be so hard to just make a large batch of better QC frames and let P1 dial them in for him. You think Luxilon and Bab make special batches of string for him too?
At one point he was using a mold that had 5 cross strings in the PWS. Since moving away from that, they've all been 4 cross strings and the same density as retail frames for the string bed. Hell, even Sampras played with retail frames. He just like SV ones because they had better QC on them out of the factory.
Heck, the Fed guy on here is too chicken to take the trap door off his signed 90s that are supposedly Fed's. What a waste of an investment. At least shed some light on a supposed mystery.
aimr75
Hall of Fame
If youre referring to the ncode pj, no, it has always been 4 crosses at the pws
Pic from fabfeds actual ncode pj fed stick
retail:
henryshli
Semi-Pro
I'm not sure about this theory. There is no reason for Wilson to release the tour 90s instead of Federer's frame if he is using a different 90 inch frame.....
DavaiMarat
Professional
Truth of the matter is, if the player sponsored is a marquee like Federer, the company adapts to keep him happy. His racquet could be made of poster puddy and hair gel, it doesn't matter, just as long as he's happy. It wouldn't surprise me if all his frame was made of was braided high modulus graphite and kevlar. Why would he risk a frame that would feel foreign to him unless he requested it. All this BLX, K-Factor, N-code, it's all BS. It's not what's in his racquet.
They get china to make a bunch of Fed Spec frames (like 200), and then they are sent to P1 to be matched (lead and silicon). They are made lighter then his spec so there's wiggle room.
Nate then tests and strings them and then goes, 'Here you go Roger, this one's ready for you'.
End of Story.
Raonic was using and still using a K-Blade. It was awhile before Wilson thought he was high profile enough to create PJ for him. Heck I still see him pull out a Kblade on occasion.
Russ better let me drive him around in his cart this year at the Rogers Cup!
They get china to make a bunch of Fed Spec frames (like 200), and then they are sent to P1 to be matched (lead and silicon). They are made lighter then his spec so there's wiggle room.
Nate then tests and strings them and then goes, 'Here you go Roger, this one's ready for you'.
End of Story.
Raonic was using and still using a K-Blade. It was awhile before Wilson thought he was high profile enough to create PJ for him. Heck I still see him pull out a Kblade on occasion.
Russ better let me drive him around in his cart this year at the Rogers Cup!
SwankPeRFection
Hall of Fame
^^^ Yep, so it very well could be graphite of the old in there, who knows. Point is, no one does and since his physical racquet is exactly the same shape wise and size to the retail, we'll never know by just simply looking at the superficial aspects of it. Other pros like Nadal is a pretty blatant PJ since the Cortex is painted on, but he still plays with what was once a retail made frame. So, at one point in time, all these guys stuck with something that worked and they liked. They're also trying new things, we know Wilson wanted Roger to try the new frames which ended up being given to Dimitrov and he's playing with them now. Case in point, there "may be" some differences in his racquet from when he first settled into the 90 size, but we don't know for sure. However, one is most certainly true... just as it would be false for me to say he's using a current PS90 weighted up for his needs, it would just as wrong for all the koolaid drinkers on here to keep saying he's using a K90 as they seem to be under the impression. Can we agree on that one?
Also, something happened during the time he was playing with a BLX. Something, I don't know what, was causing him to not hit with as much pace as before. Maybe he slacked off in the gym and got lazy and put on some weight, maybe it was his stick, but he hit "soft" with the BLXs. Go back and watch him hit with the K90 (multiple matches, not just a video here or there) and then watch the BLX90 how it softened his shots, then again how they got crisp and with more pace in the current PS90. This doesn't prove anything definitively, but I'm just saying... something was up.
Also, something happened during the time he was playing with a BLX. Something, I don't know what, was causing him to not hit with as much pace as before. Maybe he slacked off in the gym and got lazy and put on some weight, maybe it was his stick, but he hit "soft" with the BLXs. Go back and watch him hit with the K90 (multiple matches, not just a video here or there) and then watch the BLX90 how it softened his shots, then again how they got crisp and with more pace in the current PS90. This doesn't prove anything definitively, but I'm just saying... something was up.
DavaiMarat
Professional
I bought the David Gilmour Strat and I am not able to play Comfortably Numb and Run Like Hell with no musical training or talent.
I bought a gibson Les Paul and I still play like ****....
'Smoke on the water....da da da...da da da duh!....
Hey if Tsonga can switch from Blade to Aero Pro without a problem, I don't see how Federer can't adjust and adapt to what are basically the same frame, especially with further more customizations and string adjustments which would make the already extremely similar frames even more similar.
What's funny is that most of the people arguing on here probably haven't even play with Federer's string, string saver, power pad, weight etc setup. And Federer plays with a freshly strung racket within certain number of hours. Any of this factor can make a bigger difference than a different ps90.
What's funny is that most of the people arguing on here probably haven't even play with Federer's string, string saver, power pad, weight etc setup. And Federer plays with a freshly strung racket within certain number of hours. Any of this factor can make a bigger difference than a different ps90.
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