Why cant you get high swingweights on stock racquets?

[DefensiveTennis]

Why are pro racquets able to weigh in relatively heavy with high swingweights and still have them be head light balanced.

Can someone explain how for example Murray can have a 345gram racquet that has a swingweight in the 355+range and yet still be balanced head light and be depolarized?

How is this possible, if you take most of the other stock racquets and try to give them similar swingweight you end up with a static weight of like 360+?

I cant understand why this happens?

 

[Power Player]

Because they use pro stock frames which are very light and easy to customize. If you wrap 30 grams of lead around a 285 gram racquet from 10 to 2, you are looking at 315 unstrung and a SW thats already probably in the 360s. You then add silicone in the handle to balance it how you want (most pros with polarized sticks are at 3-5 pts hl on average) and you are at 345-355 grams, depending on how you want it.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

Because they use pro stock frames which are very light and easy to customize. If you wrap 30 grams of lead around a 285 gram racquet from 10 to 2, you are looking at 315 unstrung and a SW thats already probably in the 360s. You then add silicone in the handle to balance it how you want (most pros with polarized sticks are at 3-5 pts hl on average) and you are at 345-355 grams, depending on how you want it.

But with that much weight is it not unstable? It is a 285 gram balanced racquet with weight distributed evenly all over and then the next 50 grams a pro puts on anywhere they want..Does that not make it unstable, should you not distribute the weight pretty evenly all over?

So are you saying stock racquets in the shop have just loads of weight distributed around the whole frame until it weighs around 320gr, whereas a pro stock stops doing that at 285gr and allows a player to put the rest of the lead wherever they want.

 

[torpantennis]

Why are pro racquets able to weigh in relatively heavy with high swingweights and still have them be head light balanced.

Can someone explain how for example Murray can have a 345gram racquet that has a swingweight in the 355+range and yet still be balanced head light and be depolarized?

How is this possible, if you take most of the other stock racquets and try to give them similar swingweight you end up with a static weight of like 360+?

I cant understand why this happens?

Based on what you think that setup is depolarized??

 

[DefensiveTennis]

Based on what you think that setup is depolarized??

I thought Murray and Djokovic had depolarized set ups?

 

[Power Player]

Dude, just do some research, there are a million threads about this.

 

[TimothyO]

Power Player had it right. The starting point for pro frames is different from retail.

There are "platform" frames available on the retail market but they're still pretty close to something the average rec player can use with or without extensive modification. It simply isn't worth it for companies to sell either pro stock frames to the general public or stock frames with specs like the pros since the market for such gear is so tiny.

Even many tennis shops don't always stock heavier retail "player" frames since they don't sell as well. They cater to 2.5s to 4.0s who aren't wielding 13 ounce monsters and who have no interest in modding frames.

 

[movdqa]

Pro Stocks have lighter hairpins. The hairpin is the racquet without grip, pallet, grommets, and strings. Yes, there's less overall material in them which allows for more customization. Yes, you can build a less stable frame with a pro stock hairpin but a pro may choose to do that because he or she may be able to hit the center more frequently or their genetic code gives them an arm that doesn't have a problem with more instability.

If you want to play around with customization of retail frames, I'd suggest getting in touch with TW user Geoff as he can provide this service with retail platform frames. Otherwise, I'd look into getting a used pro stock to tinker with.

 

[movdqa]

Head hairpins have a label on them with the model number and weight. These PT57A (what Murray uses) hairpins give you a really low starting weight.

 

[jonestim]

Microgel Radical MP with 13 grams under the headguard from 10-2 and 20g in the butt cap would give you 345 strung with a SW of about 356 and around 4 to 4.5 hl.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

Microgel Radical MP with 13 grams under the headguard from 10-2 and 20g in the butt cap would give you 345 strung with a SW of about 356 and around 4 to 4.5 hl.

Thank you. Any suggestions on how to get closer to Murrays specs with my racquet?

 

[jonestim]

YTPMP -
Remove the CAP grommet and replace it with a grommet from a Radical that will fit. Having a lighter grommet will allow you to concentrate more weight at 12 to give it a higher SW while keeping the weight down. I don't know the numbers but you can probably find somewhere how much adding a CAP grommet adds in weight and swingweight to a non-CAP racquet, then use some negative weights in this form: http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/customizationReverse.php

IF - and I am just pulling this out of thin air - the CAP ads 10g you could subtract 10g from somewhere around the center of the part removed - say 19 inches - then add 15g at 12 and 3g under the butt cap and get 345g, 355 sw, 4 hl.

You would have to do the research to find out the exact numbers.

 

[Dave M]

Thank you. Any suggestions on how to get closer to Murrays specs with my racquet?

Why don't you use the programme on here at the "university" type in your frame, what you want it to be and it'll tell you what to do without the need for lots of threads. Works quite well.
They aren't unstable in their base form they are just specifically designed for how that particular player plays and wants their frame to feel when it's all built up. There is no reason at all why a stock prestige, rad or any other decent frame can not be used to a very high level of play.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

YTPMP -
Remove the CAP grommet and replace it with a grommet from a Radical that will fit. Having a lighter grommet will allow you to concentrate more weight at 12 to give it a higher SW while keeping the weight down. I don't know the numbers but you can probably find somewhere how much adding a CAP grommet adds in weight and swingweight to a non-CAP racquet, then use some negative weights in this form: http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/customizationReverse.php

IF - and I am just pulling this out of thin air - the CAP ads 10g you could subtract 10g from somewhere around the center of the part removed - say 19 inches - then add 15g at 12 and 3g under the butt cap and get 345g, 355 sw, 4 hl.

You would have to do the research to find out the exact numbers.

Thanks a whole lot. Really appreciate your posts. I am not willing ot remove grommet and get a radical one though.

I have decided to just lead around the hoop and stop at a static weight of 353gram which he used in a heavy spec in 2011. The swingweight will be around 350s and balance 4pts head light. That is good enough for me.

 

[Dave M]

I meant to ask in the other thread, apart from him being your inspiration, why do you want to get the SW that high? If you do let us know what it's like, I quite liked the prestige MP thought it was balanced up ok but am curious to hear your thoughts when its done
.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

I meant to ask in the other thread, apart from him being your inspiration, why do you want to get the SW that high? If you do let us know what it's like, I quite liked the prestige MP thought it was balanced up ok but am curious to hear your thoughts when its done
.

I am playing at 5.5 level mainly and I dont have a lot of pace on my shots for the level, better guys are overpowering me, even players I beat hit much bigger than me. Need to hit bigger heavier groundies with more pace. I have full strokes and I am thinking a higher swingweight will do more damage. Maybe I am wrong but if you were to offer a stock YTPMP to touring pros, I doubt any would play it stock and most would beef it up with a lot of lead as they have the strokes and timing and physique to handle it. Am I right in this thinking?

Maybe I am delusional and I hit weak because I simply dont have a big game but I think a higher swingweight will give me bigger heavier shots if I set up early.

 

[Power Player]

I have trouble believing this as I played a 5.5 who uses a stock liquid metal radical MP and hits a massive ball. Just tough to believe that you would go to this extreme if you are at such a high level of play.

 

[PKfan1]

I train at an academy with a bunch of top 100 national level players going to big time d1 programs. Only one of them uses a racquet even close to 12oz and 0 of them use lead or any other racquet modification. So to say higher sw will make that much of a difference is preposterous.

But back to your question take an IG rad pro (a pmp is too heavy to start with and has too low sw), put 6 grams of lead at 12, put 8 grams in the handle and call it a day. You will have a sub 12oz racquet with SW over 350 and you will play just as well as Andy Murray.

 

[DonDiego]

Buy a Youtek Rad Pro (swingweight of 345 in stock form). If you still can't hit heavy enough balls, then work on your technique.

 

[floydcouncil]

Power Player had it right. The starting point for pro frames is different from retail.

There are "platform" frames available on the retail market but they're still pretty close to something the average rec player can use with or without extensive modification. It simply isn't worth it for companies to sell either pro stock frames to the general public or stock frames with specs like the pros since the market for such gear is so tiny.

Even many tennis shops don't always stock heavier retail "player" frames since they don't sell as well. They cater to 2.5s to 4.0s who aren't wielding 13 ounce monsters and who have no interest in modding frames.

They ALSO cater to the 5.0/5.5/collegiate players who could care less about SW, balance, or beam width that some of you posters ever so caress.

 

[Dave M]

I am playing at 5.5 level mainly and I dont have a lot of pace on my shots for the level, better guys are overpowering me, even players I beat hit much bigger than me. Need to hit bigger heavier groundies with more pace. I have full strokes and I am thinking a higher swingweight will do more damage. Maybe I am wrong but if you were to offer a stock YTPMP to touring pros, I doubt any would play it stock and most would beef it up with a lot of lead as they have the strokes and timing and physique to handle it. Am I right in this thinking?

Maybe I am delusional and I hit weak because I simply dont have a big game but I think a higher swingweight will give me bigger heavier shots if I set up early.

If you have full strokes and good timing etc as implied then the frame should be fine for you really, I expect there are a lot of pros who use stock frames, some may be tweaked but "pro stock" lighter frames like head make aren't given to all touring pros.
I would say that if you're not getting the power you need from your mechanics and frame as they are a more powerful frame may be the way to go. I watched a league doubles match last week where a guy using a head Tis6 dismantled a doubles pair almost single handed. Long smooth strokes, excellent timing his placement was second to none at the level. He used a full pol in it but maybe it's time to try an easier frame (and maybe build it up when you're finding it necessary) rather than beef up the SW on a prestige.

 

[DefensiveTennis]

Fine, you guys win. I have gone back to 1.75 grams at 10 and 1.75 grams at 2 for a total of 3.5.

So much for increasing the swingweight to a pro level stick. Guess Il just have to get good enough for head to send me some PT57A's.

 

[TimothyO]

Microgel Radical MP with 13 grams under the headguard from 10-2 and 20g in the butt cap would give you 345 strung with a SW of about 356 and around 4 to 4.5 hl.

As long as he starts with the original MG Radical. The current version is a cheaper, stiffer version not made using the same layup as the original.