Why is an underhand serve considered as "lame" or "rude"?

[Zachol82]

It's perfectly legal according to the rules.

Is it just "rude" because it's considered as a low-level serve and using it against someone means that you're not taking the game seriously? If this is so, I strongly believe that people should get this notion out of their mind.

Just to make one thing clear, I don't use, nor have I ever used an underhand serve during a match.

Now, as to why I think an underhanded serve should be considered as just another normal serve and whoever uses it should not be criticized:
1. Your serve sucks, therefore for your second serve, it's easier for you to get the serve in if you just use an underhanded serve. I have seen people just throwing the ball up and tapping it in for their second serve...and underhanded serve can't be worse than that if not better.
2. Throwing in an underhand-serve once in awhile to throw your opponent off.
3. This is the main reason why I think an underhanded-serve deserves more credit:
An underhand-serve that has a strong side-spin or slice component to it is extremely difficult to return effectively. First off, the side-spin will make the ball bounce off to one side. Secondly, the under-spin + side-spin together makes it extremely hard for the returner to just slam the serve back; you don't get any pace to work off of AND you have to pay attention to the spin so that you wont frame your shot. This serve would of course bounce fairly short, thus drawing the returner right into no-man's land after he returns the serve.

It's definitely not that easy to control an underhanded serve with heavy spin, especially to the preciseness of a moderate-pace kick-serve. If anything, anyone who uses an underhanded serve against me during a match will definitely catch my attention.

 

[Tikiman53]

Yeah, sometimes I use an underhand serve to win to throw off my opponent, or just to mess around. But I think the main reason people consider it rude is because when a lot of people use it, they use it more as a surprise drop shot to win a quick point in which the opponent can't even reach the ball. And I'd be pretty annoyed if someone did that to me. But when I think of it objectively, I don't think it's that bad.

 

[Ptrac]

Take a look at this: those first serves look tuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUc7Rf_ZFp4&feature=related

 

[Bud]

I'd love to run into someone with an underhand serve.

 

[Zachol82]

Take a look at this: those first serves look tuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUc7Rf_ZFp4&feature=related

Just wanted to point out that the returner was already in position before the server even started his motion. If it was unexpected, it definitely would have been an effective first serve. Also, look at that return, that should have been a prime target for an overhead right there.

Definitely a cool video to see though, haha.

 

[tennisdad65]

Take a look at this: those first serves look tuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUc7Rf_ZFp4&feature=related

that serve reminds me of ping pong..

 

[Ptrac]

haha yeah that video cracked me up when i stumbled upon it

 

[Jay_The_Nomad]

Under handed & Unsportsmanlike.

The only advantage an underhandserve has is the element of suprise & that's playing dirty because your opponent might be thinking that you're restarting your service motion so he takes his eye off the ball, when in actual fact you're just about to start the point.

And besides, I think it's better for players to 'overhead tap' the ball into the service box than to underhandserve because with the overhead motion, the ball will bounce deeper.

But of course, both options are just plain crap.. one should always continually strive to improve on their 2nd serve.

 

[KenC]

I once saw Lendl do it against an opponent that was standing very far behind the baseline to return his serves. It was the ugliest thing i ever saw a pro do, but it was a great strategy as it forced the opponent to come closer to the baseline against his very powerful first serve.

I doubt it would work at the 4.0 level as no one stands that far behind the baseline to return serve. Its a nice way to let your opponent get to the net and control the point early on.

 

[MayDay]

Super Serve!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxzUGtr0ApY

 

[Rorsach]

Or the most famous of them all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU2-jsRJRJE

 

[Bud]

Take a look at this: those first serves look tuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUc7Rf_ZFp4&feature=related

Just wanted to point out that the returner was already in position before the server even started his motion. If it was unexpected, it definitely would have been an effective first serve. Also, look at that return, that should have been a prime target for an overhead right there.

Definitely a cool video to see though, haha.

that serve reminds me of ping pong..

This video is of 'soft tennis' not regular tennis.

Both the soft tennis balls and court surface are completely different.

 

[Bud]

Or the most famous of them all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KU2-jsRJRJE

And this one by Hingis against Graf at match point in the 1999 FO Final.

At 3:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hND_CQfFqnQ

- - - - - - - - - -

Hingis hitting a nice 1HBH

At 2:50
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hND_CQfFqnQ

 

[dlk]

I once saw Lendl do it against an opponent that was standing very far behind the baseline to return his serves. It was the ugliest thing i ever saw a pro do, but it was a great strategy as it forced the opponent to come closer to the baseline against his very powerful first serve.

I doubt it would work at the 4.0 level as no one stands that far behind the baseline to return serve. Its a nice way to let your opponent get to the net and control the point early on.

I was playing against guy ~4.5, the coach-type of guy. Very helpful. Played a match & his serve was so hard, I had to stand 5 feet behind baseline to get a hand on it. So anyway, he does this to me & I couldn't get to it; I felt a lttle betrayed, but challenged. So I'm ready when he tries again, easy sharp put-a-way angle return winner. He didn't try it again. He won 6-1. I personally would have more control 'dinking' a serve overhead.

 

[J_R_B]

The underhanded serve is generally suboptimal compared to overhand serving, so if someone wants to play that way against me, by all means...

 

[vincent_tennis]

I Tried it out in a doubles match, go it in and won the point. The guy just stood there going, No you cant do that Blah Blah Blah Blah etc.and they made e re-play the point.
Then came the body serve >:]

 

[raiden031]

Its not rude, I don't know where that came from...

Its just not an effective serve unless used sparingly to surprise your opponent. I've had a few opponents actually do this on rare occasions and maybe 1/3 of the time it was effective. Executing it is likened to hitting a drop shot. If it sits up too high your opponent will take advantage of it, so it is useless if not done right.

 

[Steady Eddy]

I've seen football teams do a quickee, before the defense is 'ready'. Too bad. The defense should be ready. I like those kind of plays.

In baseball, Johnny Bench had two strikes on him, when the player on first, stole second base. With first open, the other team decided to intentionally walk him. When the count got to 3-2, the pitcher unexpectedly threw a strike! Later, Bench admitted that he should have been ready.

So when someone is expecting a powerful serve and gets surprised by a soft one, is that 'unfair'? I enjoy the intellectual element in sports and games. If you think it should only be about strength, what are you, stupid? If that's how you feel, then take up weight-lifting. Underhand serves have a place in tennis as much as drop-shots.

 

[sonicare]

Agreed, IMO its a great tactic. When the returner is standing 5 feet behind the baseline, it should be incorporated and I am surprised it isnt used as often in the pro game, especially by the big servers.

 

[Manus Domini]

An under-handed serve takes more skill than some people think. unlike tapping an overhead serve over, underhanded you have to get the right spin and control to get it in and away from opponent.

 

[halalula1234]

I have an underhand serve that i use on the add side as a second serve when i dont feel like hitting an over head one.. heaps of opponenets even social ones gets angry and some saids its illegal which is not true and they refuse to let me serve like that haha. Some even requested not to play against me because i serve liike 1/90 serves under hand?

i say it is another shot and i have no probs with it!

 

[darthpwner]

I don't consider it lame or rude. It's just too easy to kill, which is why no one uses it. You can usually only get away with one per match, because your opponent will catch on.

 

[athiker]

I'm surprised that Lendl did it, was that before or after Chang did it to him?

I think the bad rap it has it b/c it seems to be done in combination with a "quick serve". If the opposing player does it after doing his normal pre-serve routine, ball bounces, etc. then fine. If he gets the balls to serve and then quickly underhands one then its unsportsmanlike IMHO. Good sportsmanship is the reason that after the server catches a bad serve toss they hold up their hand in apology to let the opponent know they are starting their serving routine over. I think this is counter to that sportsmanship if its done as a quick serve.

The idea is to beat a "ready" opponent. It's like offsides in football or a sucker punch before or after the bell in boxing. In those sports its a rule violation, to serve before the receiver is ready is the same. Technically, the receiver should hold up his hand until he is ready, but who does that every time?

I've only had it done once in league play that I can remember and it was a little on the quick side, but I was ready...I wasn't still walking to position or anything. I got to it and we won the point...and if felt goooood. I already didn't care much for that opponent and this didn't help. I wish I could say we won the match, but we didn't.

It's happened a few times outside of league play as well. It does catch you off guard, b/c instead of a fluid long service motion w/ a toss, its a quick jerk from down low. I would never try it b/c I would be too embarrassed to continue if I actually missed it into the net!...That would be worse than pulling the stunt in the first place!

Anyway, I voted "other"...I'm not a fan of it but as long as it's done after the normal serving routine that has been done the entire match...I'm okay with it.

 

[Manus Domini]

aren't you supposed to wait for your opponent to be ready and facing you for 1-2 seconds according to USTA rules?

 

[darthpwner]

I have a question. I once played a guy who hit a lot of underhand serves in addition to his regular big serve. This is USTA junior team tennis so there are no officials. Well a couple of times during that match, I thought he was going to hit an underhand serve because he quickly tossed the ball, took his racket hand back like an under hand serve, caught it and then hit a regular serve. i was totally caught off guard and ran forward and his big serve passed me. Unfortunately, I lost because he has a huge forehand. I wondered if that was legal though. As you can tell, i was pissed at that guy.

 

[Manus Domini]

no it isn't. He has to wait till you are in ready position and looking at him for one to two seconds I believe.

 

[Zachol82]

aren't you supposed to wait for your opponent to be ready and facing you for 1-2 seconds according to USTA rules?

Something like that, yes. BUT you can start your service motion, give him time to look at you so it's legal, and then RESTART the service motion and hit an underhand serve from there. A LOT of people relaxes a bit when their opponent restarts the service motion. However, an underhanded serve looks exactly like you're still preparing for the serve, not many will expect it.

Even if you can only use an underhand-serve once or twice a match, it definitely is still a great tactic, since now your opponent has one more thing on his mind to worry about, and every little advantage you can get in a match is crucial.

 

[Frank BD]

if it's a tournament or league match i think anything within the rules goes, if it's not in the rules then it's cheating which is lame and rude.

in a social match i do find underhand serves underhanded, lame, rude, what have you. last time someone did it to me in a doubles match i was already playing crappy and his underhands made it worse for awhile. so i started drilling him at the net. good solution or not it did relieve some of my irritation with myself and with him and i played better after doing it.

last tournament match i played the guy did it to me twice. i won both points, one off a loopy mishit forehand return that landed in and he missed, the other off a slightly mishit drop shot return that he couldn't get to.

 

[KenC]

I'm surprised that Lendl did it, was that before or after Chang did it to him?

I'm pretty sure it was before, probably around '81-83 or so. I seem to remember it was against Connors.

 

[pabletion]

I dont think its foul play, not more than faking a big groundstroke and pullin off a drop shot. I think you can really just get away with it if its a surprise, if you know its coming, then eventually youll get the hang of it, even if it has a lot of spin. I had to underhand serve once, cause in al truth, the sun was all over my eyes and no matter how I tried to place the ball differently, I coudlnt see it, and I even sent a couple of balls to te trees cause I framed them, so I had to underhand serve on that side of the court. I was putting a lot of side spin on them, and when I got the hang of it, they were pretty good, close to the net, and the lines, I even got one ace! The poor guy couldnt make a decent return, if he just tapped it back, I ended the point quickly. When the match ended I apologized to him for those serves, lettin him know that I couldnt see the ball when I tossed it cause of the sun.
I didnt have to apologize, but I just wanted to make sure he knew I wasnt undermining him or not taking the match seriously.

 

[pabletion]

Take a look at this: those first serves look tuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUc7Rf_ZFp4&feature=related

those balls look dead to me.... what gives?

 

[pabletion]

Oh I get it, something called "soft tennis",
no wonder why those underhanders looked so tough, and why the ball doesnt bounce as high:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F2Bzj-35nJY

 

[Venetian]

Under handed & Unsportsmanlike.

The only advantage an underhandserve has is the element of suprise & that's playing dirty because your opponent might be thinking that you're restarting your service motion so he takes his eye off the ball, when in actual fact you're just about to start the point.

And besides, I think it's better for players to 'overhead tap' the ball into the service box than to underhandserve because with the overhead motion, the ball will bounce deeper.

But of course, both options are just plain crap.. one should always continually strive to improve on their 2nd serve.

You do realize that the idea is to win the point right? It's not to give your opponent the best possible chance to defeat you.

 

[mtommer]

You do realize that the idea is to win the point right? It's not to give your opponent the best possible chance to defeat you.

The idea is to win but to do so in gentlemanly, mannerous, way. (Which of course is a load of bollocks).

 

[kiteboard]

An under-handed serve takes more skill than some people think. unlike tapping an overhead serve over, underhanded you have to get the right spin and control to get it in and away from opponent.

I use it against guys who stand 5 feet back off the line, and can hit it for aces, or against guys who cant volley or transition.

 

[nhat8121]

in a real competitive match, you can do that all day long and people will gladly take your underhand serves

anything else, it's rude to me, unless it clearly shows you're just messing around for a laugh or something...

 

[Heroesque]

I'm happy it isn't used a lot. Else, I'd be screwed since I have no volley game ha

 

[fireice]

I did it twice in a group class. Both times I had hit a slice underhand serve to the ad side to a righty's backhand that he barely hit back over the net and then I put away. The second time, he told the pro, who told me I couldn't do it anymore. I was incredulous--why stop if it's working?

People think this shows a lack of respect--I think it shows some strategy.

 

[jswinf]

If I was a Brit, I'd say "It's simply not done, old man. I mean, just not quite the thing, what? Anyone who would serve underhand would strike the Queen!"

(Apologies, I don't know any better.)

Truthfully, I don't have a big problem with underhand serves but it's kind of like showing up to play in your Hush Puppies with droopy black dress socks and your Dad's bermuda shorts.

And you could look at it as "making a travesty of the game" if it's done in a mean-spirited or goof-off fashion. Little League baseball actually has a rule about that, so if a kid runs the bases backward or holds the bat upside down they can throw the little jerk out.

Or maybe there's someone who loves to play but their shoulder can't tolerate swinging the racket overhead, so why shouldn't they serve underhand?

So I guess it just depends.

 

[kiteboard]

I'm happy it isn't used a lot. Else, I'd be screwed since I have no volley game ha

Exactly. Forces guys to stand in further, and then you can body shot them. It's a legit tactic.

 

[Zachol82]

I'm glad to see a lot of people agrees that "it's just another stroke." Definitely don't see why it's such a taboo.

 

[fed_the_savior]

i think its funny but some people think its cheap

 

[Zefer]

Players who use an underhand-serve sucks and I would rather not waste my time.

Though sometimes it's almost used in a desperate last resort of self pity, when someone's serve is unforgivably terrible the entire match and it leads them to tap it in the box underarm.

 

[aznstyle]

im surprised it isnt used in the pro tour more often

 

[kiteboard]

I'm surprised that Lendl did it, was that before or after Chang did it to him?

I think the bad rap it has it b/c it seems to be done in combination with a "quick serve". If the opposing player does it after doing his normal pre-serve routine, ball bounces, etc. then fine. If he gets the balls to serve and then quickly underhands one then its unsportsmanlike IMHO. Good sportsmanship is the reason that after the server catches a bad serve toss they hold up their hand in apology to let the opponent know they are starting their serving routine over. I think this is counter to that sportsmanship if its done as a quick serve.

The idea is to beat a "ready" opponent. It's like offsides in football or a sucker punch before or after the bell in boxing. In those sports its a rule violation, to serve before the receiver is ready is the same. Technically, the receiver should hold up his hand until he is ready, but who does that every time?

I've only had it done once in league play that I can remember and it was a little on the quick side, but I was ready...I wasn't still walking to position or anything. I got to it and we won the point...and if felt goooood. I already didn't care much for that opponent and this didn't help. I wish I could say we won the match, but we didn't.

It's happened a few times outside of league play as well. It does catch you off guard, b/c instead of a fluid long service motion w/ a toss, its a quick jerk from down low. I would never try it b/c I would be too embarrassed to continue if I actually missed it into the net!...That would be worse than pulling the stunt in the first place!

Anyway, I voted "other"...I'm not a fan of it but as long as it's done after the normal serving routine that has been done the entire match...I'm okay with it.

The server has to be stationary for more than a second. If he does it while still moving forward into his stance, it's a fault. I find that once I do it to opp, they do it back to me, and I'm expecting it, and blast a bh dtl and approach off of it, so it's not effective against me, because I know they are going to retaliate, due to the offending nature of the shot. Just another tactic to beat someone with, get them emotional, and off their normal game. I can read it in their eyes, always add court, to my bh side. Hit well, it's just a drop the bh, add side, short angle. I practice it off self feeds, for the dumb/young guys who can't volley or transition, or the old guys who are lame and slow, who can't move, or the guys who stand 10' back to give themselves more time to return my flat serves. Makes them move up, and then I can go to work on their body.

 

[pabletion]

im surprised it isnt used in the pro tour more often

you CANNOT be serious

 

[Danstevens]

im surprised it isnt used in the pro tour more often

The pros are much faster around the court than most mere amateurs and they're much more likely to punish an easy ball so an underarm serve would have to be disguised and executed extremely well to end up as an ace or to be returned with an easy reply. The underhand serve when executed badly will almost certainly give an easy point to the opposition, something which pros playing tight matches cannot afford.

I'm not bothered either way about the underhand serve. If someone plays one against me and manages to pull it off, it's a good shot and I don't really mind losing the point to it any more than getting aced at 140mph up the "T". I haven't really used an underhand serve that much, the one time that I remember is when me and a friend were asked to play doubles by some others playing on public courts. We accepted the offer and I served first. The first two serves I hit were clean aces so when I came back to serve to the first receiver again, he stood quite a distance behind the baseline in a bid to give himself some more time to react to the ball. I decided to hit an underhand serve to see if he'd be quick enough to cover it. He was but only just so he wasn't able to crush it. Other than that one match, I've never really seen a receiver far enough behind the baseline that's made me comfortable enough to give the underhand serve a try.

 

[athiker]

The server has to be stationary for more than a second. If he does it while still moving forward into his stance, it's a fault. I find that once I do it to opp, they do it back to me, and I'm expecting it, and blast a bh dtl and approach off of it, so it's not effective against me, because I know they are going to retaliate, due to the offending nature of the shot. Just another tactic to beat someone with, get them emotional, and off their normal game. I can read it in their eyes, always add court, to my bh side. Hit well, it's just a drop the bh, add side, short angle. I practice it off self feeds, for the dumb/young guys who can't volley or transition, or the old guys who are lame and slow, who can't move, or the guys who stand 10' back to give themselves more time to return my flat serves. Makes them move up, and then I can go to work on their body.

That all pretty much makes sense. The odd thing is that while I'm an "old guy" maybe...I'm 46...I've never been accused of being slow. I'm definitely not the best player on my team, but I am pretty confident that I am considered the fastest. That's one reason I found it odd this guy would pull it on me. I guess I must've been standing back a good ways b/c regular ROS is not my strong point (more so then than now)...but really, that's even more reason to serve normal to me and not underhand! Maybe it was b/c I was in fact on the ad side receiving. Otherwise I woulda thought the guy would go after my partner w/ that serve.

I'm only in my 3rd season of league play right now. I have also played one Ladder and one Compass draw. It may be coincidence but there have only been two guys that I can think of that I have played that I didn't care much for...not real bad or hookers...just didn't get a good vibe from (from reading on here I think I've been lucky!). The short server was one of them!...well before he did the short serve btw. I didn't make any comment about his short serve either...just played it and went on. We lost the match in a tiebreaker later. The guy had a killer forehand if given time, but bad backhand...just couldn't get the ball there enough!

Like I say, I agree its a fully legal serve as long as the returner is set. The part about the server being set is good to know too. It probably "feels" like a "quick serve" even when its not just b/c by its nature it happens fast, before the normal serve windup, and is a surprise. I would still never try it myself...well never say never I guess. If I was somehow getting eaten up by an immobile returner maybe...but would more likely slice off to the sides I think.

 

[Manus Domini]

If I was a Brit, I'd say "It's simply not done, old man. I mean, just not quite the thing, what? Anyone who would serve underhand would strike the Queen!"

(Apologies, I don't know any better.)

Truthfully, I don't have a big problem with underhand serves but it's kind of like showing up to play in your Hush Puppies with droopy black dress socks and your Dad's bermuda shorts.

And you could look at it as "making a travesty of the game" if it's done in a mean-spirited or goof-off fashion. Little League baseball actually has a rule about that, so if a kid runs the bases backward or holds the bat upside down they can throw the little jerk out.

Or maybe there's someone who loves to play but their shoulder can't tolerate swinging the racket overhead, so why shouldn't they serve underhand?

So I guess it just depends.

One of the kids on my team shows up to practice with dress shoes and asks to serve underhanded

he wasn't allowed :lol:

 

[Steady Eddy]

I have an underhand serve that i use on the add side as a second serve when i dont feel like hitting an over head one.. heaps of opponenets even social ones gets angry and some saids its illegal which is not true and they refuse to let me serve like that haha. Some even requested not to play against me because i serve liike 1/90 serves under hand?

i say it is another shot and i have no probs with it!

How somebody feels about it is one thing. But it is not illegal, as the videos of: Chang, Lendl, and Hingis prove. But to those who think it's cheating, I'd like to ask, do you also think that the bunt in baseball is cheating?

Ted Williams was a left-handed player who pulled nearly all his hits to right field. This led one manager to shift all the fielders, except for the left-fielder, to right field. It was called the Boudreau Shift. Williams complained about it in his biography, and felt that it hurt his batting average. At one point he became so frustrated that he bunted to the open field for a hit. Ty Cobb told him that he should just do that every time until they give up on the shift. Williams was too stubborn to do that, and just swang away into right field, complaining about how the shift was "stealing" hits from him. I don't understand Williams attitude, and I think Cobb was right.

If you're a player with a big serve, and opponents stand way back to nullify your power, somewhat, I think it's completely fair for you to counter their deep position with an underhand serve. Force them to come in more, and then go back to your power serve. Tennis is full of little ploys like this, and they make the game more interesting and fun.

Some counter by saying that tennis "ought" to be only about strength, and that winning a point by out-witting the opponent is "unfair". If you really feel that way, you're in the wrong game. Because of tactics, the faster, fitter player doesn't always win. If you want a sport that takes thinking out of the equation, take up competitive weight-lifting. There's almost no thinking at all. The clever competitor doesn't get an "unfair" advantage by out-thinking their dull opponent. Then you can be happy.