Why is an underhand serve considered as "lame" or "rude"?

[athiker]

How somebody feels about it is one thing. But it is not illegal, as the videos of: Chang, Lendl, and Hingis prove. But to those who think it's cheating, I'd like to ask, do you also think that the bunt in baseball is cheating?

Ted Williams was a left-handed player who pulled nearly all his hits to right field. This led one manager to shift all the fielders, except for the left-fielder, to right field. It was called the Boudreau Shift. Williams complained about it in his biography, and felt that it hurt his batting average. At one point he became so frustrated that he bunted to the open field for a hit. Ty Cobb told him that he should just do that every time until they give up on the shift. Williams was too stubborn to do that, and just swang away into right field, complaining about how the shift was "stealing" hits from him. I don't understand Williams attitude, and I think Cobb was right.

If you're a player with a big serve, and opponents stand way back to nullify your power, somewhat, I think it's completely fair for you to counter their deep position with an underhand serve. Force them to come in more, and then go back to your power serve. Tennis is full of little ploys like this, and they make the game more interesting and fun.

Some counter by saying that tennis "ought" to be only about strength, and that winning a point by out-witting the opponent is "unfair". If you really feel that way, you're in the wrong game. Because of tactics, the faster, fitter player doesn't always win. If you want a sport that takes thinking out of the equation, take up competitive weight-lifting. There's almost no thinking at all. The clever competitor doesn't get an "unfair" advantage by out-thinking their dull opponent. Then you can be happy.

I agree its fine as long as everyone is "set" as normal. Never heard the Ted Williams story...interesting. I agree, he was stubborn not to change and there was no "stealing" of hits involved! Baseball players shift around regularly according to the batter and situation...plus they can play wherever they want as far as I know. Ted still did alright though!

 

[Bagumbawalla]

By changing one letter at a time, and making a new word each time, we can go from lame to rude in 4 steps.

Lame, Lane, Lune, Rune, Rude- Not that that has anything to do with the topic.

 

[kiteboard]

How somebody feels about it is one thing. But it is not illegal, as the videos of: Chang, Lendl, and Hingis prove. But to those who think it's cheating, I'd like to ask, do you also think that the bunt in baseball is cheating?

Ted Williams was a left-handed player who pulled nearly all his hits to right field. This led one manager to shift all the fielders, except for the left-fielder, to right field. It was called the Boudreau Shift. Williams complained about it in his biography, and felt that it hurt his batting average. At one point he became so frustrated that he bunted to the open field for a hit. Ty Cobb told him that he should just do that every time until they give up on the shift. Williams was too stubborn to do that, and just swang away into right field, complaining about how the shift was "stealing" hits from him. I don't understand Williams attitude, and I think Cobb was right.

If you're a player with a big serve, and opponents stand way back to nullify your power, somewhat, I think it's completely fair for you to counter their deep position with an underhand serve. Force them to come in more, and then go back to your power serve. Tennis is full of little ploys like this, and they make the game more interesting and fun.

Some counter by saying that tennis "ought" to be only about strength, and that winning a point by out-witting the opponent is "unfair". If you really feel that way, you're in the wrong game. Because of tactics, the faster, fitter player doesn't always win. If you want a sport that takes thinking out of the equation, take up competitive weight-lifting. There's almost no thinking at all. The clever competitor doesn't get an "unfair" advantage by out-thinking their dull opponent. Then you can be happy.

Exactly. Outwit, outlast, etc.

 

[Steady Eddy]

By changing one letter at a time, and making a new word each time, we can go from lame to rude in 4 steps.

Lame, Lane, Lune, Rune, Rude- Not that that has anything to do with the topic.

How's this?
Lame, Dame, Dade, Dude, Rude.

Dade, as in Dade County. No? Well what's Rune?

 

[GuyClinch]

It's totally legit and fine in my book. The only thing is those soft tennis guy has it really down - with a practice swing and all. I am going to practice like 10 or so next time I play to have better one..

Sometimes I play really awful players for fun - might be nice to take it easy with such a shot..

 

[brad1730]

If this happens in a tournament or USTA league match, then bring it on - and let your team (in USTA) suffer the shame of having you on their team. I would rather not play a guy that has to win with trickery. If you want to win, then practice, take lessons and get in shape.

 

[Steady Eddy]

If this happens in a tournament or USTA league match, then bring it on - and let your team (in USTA) suffer the shame of having you on their team. I would rather not play a guy that has to win with trickery. If you want to win, then practice, take lessons and get in shape.

"Trickery"? Is it 'trickery' to hit to an opponents weakness? Say somebody has a huge forehand, but a pathetic backhand, is it unsportsmanlike to keep the ball away from that forehand, and attack the other wing? That's not "practice, take lessons and get in shape", but it's a standard tennis tactic that even most beginners learn.

What about a player who thrives on pace but goes up a like balloon if you play featherduster tennis? Is that trickery? Some players despise 'junky' shots with spins on them. Does that mean you shouldn't hit these?

The thing is, if you want to win any kind of decent tournament and have a weakness, expect your opponent to exploit it. You might "rather not play a guy that has to win with trickery". But if you get into a final, and he finds your weakness, he'll probably target it, even if you'd rather not play that guy.

 

[fed_the_savior]

Anybody that gets beat by an underhanded serve is pathetic. Period. Complaining about it is über lame.

 

[Bagumbawalla]

Rune(s)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runic_alphabet

Yes, I tried to use Dade, also, but was not sure if it was "legal".

Oh, and I see nothing wrong with someone throwing in an underhanded serve once in a blue moon just to keep things fresh, but do it fairly often is pretty much tiresome and ineffective.

 

[Zachol82]

"Trickery"? Is it 'trickery' to hit to an opponents weakness? Say somebody has a huge forehand, but a pathetic backhand, is it unsportsmanlike to keep the ball away from that forehand, and attack the other wing? That's not "practice, take lessons and get in shape", but it's a standard tennis tactic that even most beginners learn.

What about a player who thrives on pace but goes up a like balloon if you play featherduster tennis? Is that trickery? Some players despise 'junky' shots with spins on them. Does that mean you shouldn't hit these?

The thing is, if you want to win any kind of decent tournament and have a weakness, expect your opponent to exploit it. You might "rather not play a guy that has to win with trickery". But if you get into a final, and he finds your weakness, he'll probably target it, even if you'd rather not play that guy.

Agree. An underhand-serve is no less "trickery" than faking a strong forehand approach but actually hitting a soft, drop-shot while the opponent gets ready for it behind the baseline. Djokovich is definitely a trickster! That sly fox!!

 

[pyrokid]

I have no problem with other people doing it, but would never consider doing it, because my number one goal in tennis is to improve, and to do that I need to hit as much as possible. Ending points right off the bat doesn't help me with that goal.
I've played doubles with some people that had their butt hairs fuffled quite a bit by it, though.

 

[brad1730]

"Trickery"? Is it 'trickery' to hit to an opponents weakness? Say somebody has a huge forehand, but a pathetic backhand, is it unsportsmanlike to keep the ball away from that forehand, and attack the other wing? That's not "practice, take lessons and get in shape", but it's a standard tennis tactic that even most beginners learn.

What about a player who thrives on pace but goes up a like balloon if you play featherduster tennis? Is that trickery? Some players despise 'junky' shots with spins on them. Does that mean you shouldn't hit these?

The thing is, if you want to win any kind of decent tournament and have a weakness, expect your opponent to exploit it. You might "rather not play a guy that has to win with trickery". But if you get into a final, and he finds your weakness, he'll probably target it, even if you'd rather not play that guy.

If this is in a serious match, whether in a tournament or USTA, then bring it on. As they say, all is fair in love and war. As mentioned in other posts, I would take this as a good sign. A sign my opponent is getting desperate.

When I'm playing for fun, then yes, I do feel that excessive use of drop shots, underhand serves and constant moon-balls is the choice of someone who wants to win, but doesn't want to practice, take lessons or get in shape. I don't need to win every game, and I don't mind someone trying to move me forward with a drop shot or a soft serve if the shot is within the context of a well developed plan - but when someone is obviously trying to win through a series of trick shots it makes a joke out of the game. I don't think it's taking the game or your opponent seriously. This type of person usually wins the 1 point, but loses the match and the respect of the person they are playing.

 

[GuyClinch]

When I'm playing for fun, then yes, I do feel that excessive use of drop shots, underhand serves and constant moon-balls is the choice of someone who wants to win, but doesn't want to practice, take lessons or get in shape. I don't need to win every game, and I don't mind someone trying to move me forward with a drop shot or a soft serve if the shot is within the context of a well developed plan - but when someone is obviously trying to win through a series of trick shots it makes a joke out of the game. I don't think it's taking the game or your opponent seriously. This type of person usually wins the 1 point, but loses the match and the respect of the person they are playing.

This is the mantra of the average player. Instead you should look at these kind of shots as an opportunity to PUNISH your opponent. They aren't "trick" shots..just because the pros don't use them often. They would happily use them if they worked on their opponents.

It's like a jump shot vs. a set shot in basketball. I won't gripe that the guy taking set shots is using 'tricks' just because pros don't use it that often. Pros don't use a set shot because it gets BLOCKED. It has nothing to do with it being "improper" or being a 'trick."

 

[Steady Eddy]

This is the mantra of the average player. Instead you should look at these kind of shots as an opportunity to PUNISH your opponent. They aren't "trick" shots..just because the pros don't use them often. They would happily use them if they worked on their opponents.

It's like a jump shot vs. a set shot in basketball. I won't gripe that the guy taking set shots is using 'tricks' just because pros don't use it that often. Pros don't use a set shot because it gets BLOCKED. It has nothing to do with it being "improper" or being a 'trick."

Where I often play doubles, there's a player who is an unrepentant lobber. When he launches a lob, the other players stand glued to the net hoping the lob will land short. When they see it's over their head, they get angry. Do they decide that they need to learn to read lobs sooner? No, they just blame the opponent for lobbing in the first place. "The pros don't do that", they say. Yeah, but the pros would put away those lobs. If you're serious about improving, worry about your game, not your opponents. So don't say an opponent is "lame" who beats you with an underhand serve, instead learn to move in quickly and put away those kinds of serves.

 

[Blake0]

I had to use underhand serves for 2 weeks from a shoulder injury. Wasn't aloud to do overhead movement.

 

[fruitytennis1]

I had to use underhand serves for 2 weeks from a shoulder injury. Wasn't aloud to do overhead movement.

Friend had the same problem for like 1 month.

 

[Venetian]

Where I often play doubles, there's a player who is an unrepentant lobber. When he launches a lob, the other players stand glued to the net hoping the lob will land short. When they see it's over their head, they get angry. Do they decide that they need to learn to read lobs sooner? No, they just blame the opponent for lobbing in the first place. "The pros don't do that", they say. Yeah, but the pros would put away those lobs. If you're serious about improving, worry about your game, not your opponents. So don't say an opponent is "lame" who beats you with an underhand serve, instead learn to move in quickly and put away those kinds of serves.

Perfect post Eddy. Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[BLX]

It's perfectly legal according to the rules.

Is it just "rude" because it's considered as a low-level serve and using it against someone means that you're not taking the game seriously? If this is so, I strongly believe that people should get this notion out of their mind.

Just to make one thing clear, I don't use, nor have I ever used an underhand serve during a match.

Now, as to why I think an underhanded serve should be considered as just another normal serve and whoever uses it should not be criticized:
1. Your serve sucks, therefore for your second serve, it's easier for you to get the serve in if you just use an underhanded serve. I have seen people just throwing the ball up and tapping it in for their second serve...and underhanded serve can't be worse than that if not better.
2. Throwing in an underhand-serve once in awhile to throw your opponent off.
3. This is the main reason why I think an underhanded-serve deserves more credit:
An underhand-serve that has a strong side-spin or slice component to it is extremely difficult to return effectively. First off, the side-spin will make the ball bounce off to one side. Secondly, the under-spin + side-spin together makes it extremely hard for the returner to just slam the serve back; you don't get any pace to work off of AND you have to pay attention to the spin so that you wont frame your shot. This serve would of course bounce fairly short, thus drawing the returner right into no-man's land after he returns the serve.

It's definitely not that easy to control an underhanded serve with heavy spin, especially to the preciseness of a moderate-pace kick-serve. If anything, anyone who uses an underhanded serve against me during a match will definitely catch my attention.

wait a minute Zachol82! You are 27 years old and you use the word lame?? I thought people grow out of the l33t n00b talkbut i guess you still live in your parents basement playing xbox causing pwnag3? NO?

Radek stepanek used the underhand serve and got a point violation in 2006,

-ex18

 

[fed_the_savior]

Look, when you're playing good players you'll be thankful for every underhanded serve. If it takes you by surprise, don't be a poor sport.

 

[Zachol82]

wait a minute Zachol82! You are 27 years old and you use the word lame?? I thought people grow out of the l33t n00b talkbut i guess you still live in your parents basement playing xbox causing pwnag3? NO?

Radek stepanek used the underhand serve and got a point violation in 2006,


-ex18

But, but I'm not 27! :[ ...and I definitely don't own any console games.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH MY MAN CAVE, WTF?!

By the way, I just bought a bottle of:

I hope it works!

 

[BLX]

But, but I'm not 27! :[ ...and I definitely don't own any console games.

THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH MY MAN CAVE, WTF?!

By the way, I just bought a bottle of:

I hope it works!

So we have a pathological lair now? looks like i hit a nerve with you.






You have 82 in your username,aka 1982 so you are 27/28 your post history suggests you are in your late 20's. also you said that you "graduated from hs around 10 years ago".

FYI your profile DOB is a façade. Do not lie on the internet because there's always someone who is going to call you out pal.

 

[nfor304]

Todd Reid, who was a former Davis Cup player for Australia and was ranked around 150 in 2004 played a local Open tournament while serving underarm the whole time about 2 years ago. He did it because he had some kind of shoulder injury. Still got through to the quarters though i think

 

[Zachol82]

So we have a pathological lair now? looks like i hit a nerve with you.






You have 82 in your username,aka 1982 so you are 27/28 your post history suggests you are in your late 20's. also you said that you "graduated from hs around 10 years ago".

FYI your profile DOB is a façade. Do not lie on the internet because there's always someone who is going to call you out pal.

I hope I can still return my Troll Spray since it seems like it's not working!

Btw, how do you have so much free time as to go through someone's profile and look at all their threads?

Go away troll! Shoo! SHOO!!

Edit: By the way, when did lame become "leet talk?"

 

[Zachol82]

Todd Reid, who was a former Davis Cup player for Australia and was ranked around 150 in 2004 played a local Open tournament while serving underarm the whole time about 2 years ago. He did it because he had some kind of shoulder injury. Still got through to the quarters though i think

Wow, to use an underhand-serve all the way and still got through to the quarters? That's pretty impressive

 

[jswinf]

Where I often play doubles, there's a player who is an unrepentant lobber.

Forgive me, Eddy, for I have lobbed.

 

[blakesq]

Blx,

I don't believe it. Underhand serving is perfectly legal. Do you have proof of this?

Radek stepanek used the underhand serve and got a point violation in 2006,