why is forehand slice so rare?

[spacediver]

My understanding is that the backhand slice is, in some contexts, tactically superior to a backhand topspin drive. I understand that the backhand is generally a weaker shot in terms of consistency, power, and accuracy, and that this may be one reason why a slice is sometimes a good option.

However, I also understand that while a backhand slice is sometimes desirable in terms of reducing risk of error, it is sometimes desirable solely because the nature of the slice allows the ball to skid, and can throw off the timing of the opponent.

If this is true, then how come we rarely see pros use forehand slices for that very same reason?

One response may be that the power, accuracy, and consistency benefits of the forehand drive outweighs the skid/throwing off element of the slice, but surely there are cases where the skid/throwing off element becomes a priority.

 

[pvaudio]

My understanding is that the backhand slice is, in some contexts, tactically superior to a backhand topspin drive. I understand that the backhand is generally a weaker shot in terms of consistency, power, and accuracy, and that this may be one reason why a slice is sometimes a good option.

However, I also understand that while a backhand slice is sometimes desirable in terms of reducing risk of error, it is sometimes desirable solely because the nature of the slice allows the ball to skid, and can throw off the timing of the opponent.

If this is true, then how come we rarely see pros use forehand slices for that very same reason?

One response may be that the power, accuracy, and consistency benefits of the forehand drive outweighs the skid/throwing off element of the slice, but surely there are cases where the skid/throwing off element becomes a priority.

Because normally slice is used in one of two situations: to slow down the pace to create time to recover, or to create a low approach shot to come into the net. Just like with the backhand volley, the mechanics of the backhand stroke lend itself to backspin far more naturally than do the forehand. To have a penetrating slice backhand, step into the ball with a moderate shoulder turn and the job is done. With the forehand, you're using your arm to generate the spin AND the pace which is far more difficult to do effectively and isn't particularly useful since you could more easily hit a deep heavy topspin stroke to recover, or hit a flat or sharp angled approach shot instead.

 

[spacediver]

I thought it might be biomechanically related but wasn't sure. Why couldn't you use a closed stance in the forehand and use weight transfer to aid in the production of spin and pace? (I guess one reason would be a lack of diguise?)

 

[prattle128]

People generally are more comfortable with their forehands as well, so if they are being pressured on the backhand, they can just slice it back. With the forehand, if they get a look at it, generally people are going to want to try and get a look at regaining control of the point with their forehand.

 

[Deleted member 25923]

I often use it as a squash shot and also to approach, but it's harder to develop.

 

[spacediver]

People generally are more comfortable with their forehands as well, so if they are being pressured on the backhand, they can just slice it back. With the forehand, if they get a look at it, generally people are going to want to try and get a look at regaining control of the point with their forehand.

So if someone's backhand topspin drive was as reliable, accurate, and powerful as the average pro's forehand drive, then there'd never be any occasion to use a slice backhand (ignoring the times when you're stretched out or out of position)?

 

[pvaudio]

I often use it as a squash shot and also to approach, but it's harder to develop.

I would argue that the squash is a lower percentage shot that a forehand DTL winner attempt. Not only are you hacking at it, but you're hacking at it at full speed, from the wrist, and using floating topspin.

 

[pvaudio]

So if someone's backhand topspin drive was as reliable, accurate, and powerful as the average pro's forehand drive, then there'd never be any occasion to use a slice backhand (ignoring the times when you're stretched out or out of position)?

No. I've always argued that the BH slice is the most valuable groundstroke in tennis before you get to the upper levels. Reason being, most players don't know how to return a slice properly, let alone hit one themselves. Hitting a slice throws off your opponents timing if you're just banging back and forth. It doesn't need to only be used for getting back into position.

 

[ReopeningWed]

No. I've always argued that the BH slice is the most valuable groundstroke in tennis before you get to the upper levels. Reason being, most players don't know how to return a slice properly, let alone hit one themselves. Hitting a slice throws off your opponents timing if you're just banging back and forth. It doesn't need to only be used for getting back into position.

It's also good for a change of pace. If you're playing someone who hugs the baseline, you can punish them by hitting your slice short, and it'll still be safe.

 

[spacediver]

No. I've always argued that the BH slice is the most valuable groundstroke in tennis before you get to the upper levels. Reason being, most players don't know how to return a slice properly, let alone hit one themselves. Hitting a slice throws off your opponents timing if you're just banging back and forth. It doesn't need to only be used for getting back into position.

But this is my point! If what you say is true (which I believe it to be), then why don't people use forehand slice?

You say that it's more difficult biomechanically, but I responded to that by saying you could do the forehand slice with a closed stance so you can use weight transfer to aid in production of spin and pace.

So what gives?

 

[Mr_Shiver]

The only time i can remember seeing this shot during a pro match was nadal-coria at monte carlo. Cant recall the year but coria was using a lot of drop shots. Once nadal started reading it coria began slicing it past nadal who was rushing forward. A very savvy tactic by coria, the shots look practically identical.

 

[1stVolley]

No. I've always argued that the BH slice is the most valuable groundstroke in tennis before you get to the upper levels. Reason being, most players don't know how to return a slice properly, let alone hit one themselves. Hitting a slice throws off your opponents timing if you're just banging back and forth. It doesn't need to only be used for getting back into position.

Absolutely. In fact, Ken Rosewall hit almost exclusively slice backhands. Another great advantage of the slice is that, on clay in particular, it stays low and forces the opponent to bend and to usually hit upwards. A lot of players don't bend enough, for various reasons, and an opponent's hitting up sure helps when you have to volley.

 

[ubermeyer]

A lot of players hit forehand slices often. Ever seen Murray play? Karlovic? Even Federer does it somewhat often... it's not RARE, but most players can hit a better forehand drive so they just do.

 

[Falloutjr]

I think it has to do more with the forehand just being a bigger weapon for most people. It's MUCH easier to hit a forehand with massive spin and pace with control than it is to do a backhand. Also, it's more physically natural to slice backhands with control than forehands. I only use slice forehands for drop shots or if I'm REALLY drawn out wide, and when I do it gets put away 99% of the time just because it's that defensive of a shot. But I've seen some pretty good slice forehands at the park. How they do it, I'm not sure, but they can hit through the ball with an Eastern grip and hit the ball with as much pace and backspin as a topspin forehand and it can be a headache.

 

[fuzz nation]

A backhand slice is a quick, reliable stroke that can often be executed more quickly than a topspin drive on that side. That's certainly the case for just about every player who hits a topspin one-hander, but any one that hits a two-hander is smart to also learn the one-handed slice, too. Against a strong server, a slice return off either side can often be the most dependable option, since it can be so compact and accurate.

The forehand side is stronger with the one arm on the racquet though, and it's much easier to hit a topspin forehand in a hurry. The squash shot forehand is only a last ditch bailout when the ball is nearly out of reach and simply can't be driven with a topspin stroke - in this case, it's "better than nothing".

When is it my first choice? If an opposing doubles team attacks the net, a slice forehand that descends just over the tape can let me completely neutralize their offensive position since they can't drive their volley. If I anticipate a weak reply off this slice, I can often close in and put the ball away (or at least put the other guys in trouble). Some players will have plenty of problems with this ball and might even dump it in the net when they try to volley it aggressively.

The slice forehand is also a great approach shot; maybe even a better bet than a slice backhand for an avid net rusher. If I slice up the line with my forehand to a righty opponent's backhand, I often have less ground to cover to take the net in a strong position than if I follow a cross-court slice bh to the net. When I move in behind that slice forehand, I'll also have the line better guarded against a pass.

Already covered the return of serve and I also find this shot to be a great way to counter a bounding moonball where I can hit it rising at shoulder or head height. Again, very reliable and accurate.

I could be a punk and go on a rant about the rarity of this shot because everyone is teaching (or wanting to learn) powerful topspin strokes instead of touch and variety. I grew up playing serve and volley on grass courts, but the vast majority of young guns (and adults) I see are learning to put their faith in just crackin' it from the back court...

I could, but I won't... for now.:twisted:

 

[Mig1NC]

I played on carpet for the first time this weekend. slices skidded like mad.

 

[callmethedoctor]

I've seen Roddick do it too. In response to the original question, it's because most pro forehand drives are so developed that they always would prefer to hit that; it's just more penetrating 99.9% of the time. However, my doubles partner, when we just rally, uses it whenever I hit a loopy topspin shot to hit forehand. It's an overhead/forehand slice thing that just neutralizes my heavy shot, as a backhand slice would. I guess it's more natural to him than to the rest of us mortals. :/

 

[darthpwner]

The reason most people don't hit forehand slice is because a lot of people use extreme western grips. Also, the ball is on the same side of your body as the racket, so hitting from a closed stance is uncomfortable. You get less bite because you can't coil your forearm and elbow like a backhand slice, so it floats too much, making it an easy kill for your opponent.

 

[darthpwner]

Fabrice Santoro has a good forehand slice because his slice is VERY similar to a left handed backhand. That's why he follow through's with his left hand.

 

[bad_call]

Because normally slice is used in one of two situations: to slow down the pace to create time to recover, or to create a low approach shot to come into the net. Just like with the backhand volley, the mechanics of the backhand stroke lend itself to backspin far more naturally than do the forehand. To have a penetrating slice backhand, step into the ball with a moderate shoulder turn and the job is done. With the forehand, you're using your arm to generate the spin AND the pace which is far more difficult to do effectively and isn't particularly useful since you could more easily hit a deep heavy topspin stroke to recover, or hit a flat or sharp angled approach shot instead.

nice post...

 

[Jay_The_Nomad]

I would argue that the squash is a lower percentage shot that a forehand DTL winner attempt. Not only are you hacking at it, but you're hacking at it at full speed, from the wrist, and using floating topspin.

I've basically seen two types of FH slices on court; the vicious hack/karate chop/squash-shot; and the proper slice with the fh volley motion.

The FH volley motion is the proper way to go & it is very consistent once you get your head around the rather awkward biomechanics.

The reason most people don't hit forehand slice is because a lot of people use extreme western grips..

ACtually, I think the FH slice is even more relevant today than it was in earlier times. Using an extreme FH grip makes it very difficult to hit when stretched out wide & on the run. With an eastern grip, you can still flatten it out and rifle it cross court, but biomechanically, it's not possible with the semi & full western.

Thus, the need for a FH slice.

 

[spacediver]

The reason most people don't hit forehand slice is because a lot of people use extreme western grips.

People change grips when switching to backhands. And many use a continental for backhand slice and an eastern for topspin backhand drive. So why not just adjust the grip accordingly for a forehand slice?

 

[OKUSA]

Navratilova used to hit a lot of forehand slices

 

[LeeD]

Did you guys see the Ojai singles finals?
In men's, both used it on wide shots to great effect, both winning most of their points when they resorted to the desperation forehand slapshot/slice.
And almost EVERY top men's pro uses that forehand slap/slice, when run really wide.

 

[skiracer55]

There it is...

Did you guys see the Ojai singles finals?
In men's, both used it on wide shots to great effect, both winning most of their points when they resorted to the desperation forehand slapshot/slice.
And almost EVERY top men's pro uses that forehand slap/slice, when run really wide.

...it's actually not that rare, it's just that it's really a defensive/recovery shot, and most of the top pros move well enough that they don't end up in this defensive a position. However...what about your average hacker? Does he/she move this well? I didn't think so. Then it's probably a good idea to have a forehand slice in your arsenal, right? And guess what? It's not that difficult...if you have a clean forehand volley, that is...\

 

[Frank Silbermann]

In the 1970s people told me that the backhand is the more natural shot (because the body is not in the way on the follow-through), and that most good players have better backhands than forehands. Of course, back in those days most player sliced virtually every backhand. So if those claims were true, then one would have to conclude that the only reason most people didn't slice most of their forehands was because their forehands simply weren't good enough to do that.