Williams sisters=usually sloppy tennis

[Coria]

"She played fairly consistently,'' Williams said. ``I probably shouldn't have made so many mistakes. I'll remember not to next time.''

Yeah right Venus. That's what you guys do best--make tons of sloppy and ridiculous errors. These ladies play ugly, ugly tennis so often. I'm so sick of watching their stupid mistakes.

Graf, Martina, Seles in her prime, Evert, Sanchez and even Hingis made 1/2 to 2/3 less errors than these ladies do. They are so sloppy and simply poorly coached. That they have had success is a tribute to their athletic ability. Many of their stroke mechanics absolutley stink. Serena is very mentally tough but much of her tennis is painful to watch.

These sisters don't play a fun to watch brand of tennis. They should have been so much more consistent by now. It's a joke.

 

[Crize]

I am going to have to be quite honest here and say that they do have an awkward style of play and venis makes alot of errors, if only she would change that forehand and get something more consistant it looks like her arm is a living wind shield wiper. But more importantly and more frankly she could kick your a*s on any given day of the week. What I am truley tired of is jerks like you talking out their bum about people much more skilled and accomplished, I am sorry but thats just out of line.

 

[WCBandNerd06]

Yeah, their ugly play has won them a total of 11 grand slam singles titles or something like that...doesn't sound too bad to me for playin' ugly. I say go for whatever works...that's their game and a lot of players respect them for it. If you don't like watching them play...don't.

 

[Vlad]

Crize, I really doubt sisters would win a point against Coria.....

 

[Coria]

I am going to have to be quite honest here and say that they do have an awkward style of play and venis makes alot of errors, if only she would change that forehand and get something more consistant it looks like her arm is a living wind shield wiper. But more importantly and more frankly she could kick your a*s on any given day of the week. What I am truley tired of is jerks like you talking out their bum about people much more skilled and accomplished, I am sorry but thats just out of line.

No, they couldn't kick my butt. You know nothing about my tennis or playing experience. Why am I a jerk? Because I share the truth about their game on an OPEN discussion forum? So are you the Talk Tennis Cop now? Dude, get a grip on what an open discussion forum is all about. Don't call people jerks who you know nothing about. I've accomplished more in competitive play than you could dream about. And in my prime, I was often much more enjoyable to watch than than the sloppiness of these two.

They are exceptional athletes who for a short time intimidated and overpowered people. Guess what? No one is intimidated by them anymore. Players have caught on. Venus hasn't been even remotely dominant or "great" in four years. Serena usually struggles now to win matches. Neither has improved. Serena is a great competitor and a great athlete. But her tennis is sloppy, as is Venus'. That's the truth.

 

[Crize]

Are you a female "coria"? If you arent then stop bragging about yourself. How many grand slams have you won anyways? just curious.

 

[tennissavy]

I love the WTA but I agree with Coria that the Williams have not improved at all since they started winning events. Their games are predictable and their refusal to improve and change will be their demise. Very few players are intimidated now and I enjoy watching them get beaten. The only good thing about their matches being shown so much is that I know when someone beats a williams sister I can sit back and enjoy. They have really brought the decency level of the sport down quite a bit, especially Serena and the father.

 

[Phil]

I'm so sick of watching their stupid mistakes.

These ladies play ugly, ugly tennis so often. I'm so sick of watching their stupid mistakes. It's a joke.

Tennis is not a damned fashion show or the ballet. Get that into your thick skull; It's tennis, or didn't you know that? If all pro tennis players possessed beautiful, aesthetic styles, tennis would be borning, kinda like...the ballet, but without the good music. But you'd like that, right?

Fact is, the "joke" is on the other players-those who you might think play like swans, and YOU. None of them have 11 Majors to their credit, now do they? Let's say it TO-GE-THER...E-LEVEN. Eleven. One One. Double toothpicks.

And Graff and Sanchez Vacario-those are NOT the two prettiest games I've ever seen-far from it.

Simply put, if you're sick of watching the Williams sisters, then stop watching them. That's what I do when I'm tired of something that I have some control over...I STOP doing the thing that's making me tired. Dumb frigging tennis fans like this-best solution is to develop a Game Boy or Game Box game in which you can program your OWN tennis players. Screw the real game!

 

[WCBandNerd06]

No, they couldn't kick my butt. And in my prime, I was often much more enjoyable to watch than than the sloppiness of these two.

How many Grand Slam singles titles have you won? Yes, they COULD kick your butt. Just because you didn't play as sloppy doesn't mean you were more enjoyable to watch. A player's technique and playing style aren't the only aspects to making a player enjoyable to watch.

 

[kooyah]

And Graff and Sanchez Vacario-those are NOT the two prettiest games I've ever seen-far from it.

Graf's game is FAR more attractive than either of the Williams sisters. Additionally, she is much more pleasant to listen to, as well, as she doesn't emit those disgusting shrieks and moans that the Williams sisters do.

 

[Phil]

Graf's game is FAR more attractive than either of the Williams sisters. Additionally, she is much more pleasant to listen to, as well, as she doesn't emit those disgusting shrieks and moans that the Williams sisters do.

That's a matter of opinion. She had a pretty unorthodox forehand and hit it very late. And she hit a slice backhand, almost exclusively. Her serve toss was about 55 feet in the air, and no matter how nice of an approach shot she had, she always retreated backwards back to the baseline.

Not a pretty game. But...she got big time results...22 Majors and a Grand Slam. Substance over style. This is my POINT here, Kooyah. You must have missed it somewhere along the way.

 

[paintjob]

Williams boring

Watching the Williams sisters is soo boring. I agree with Coria in that they are sloppy. I have to say that watching Venus play tennis makes my knees ache. My knees start to hurt for some reason, I think its the way she walks, like she has bad knees or something. Its like watching Flipper play, just hurts to see him play, knees start hurting. And I have no knee problems. Man its painful to watch.

 

[alan-n]

That's a matter of opinion. She had a pretty unorthodox forehand and hit it very late.

Didn't she hit her forehand with a continental grip? I always thought continental forehands looked odd. But then again you could critique Sampras forehand also, it was an odd looking eastern forehand.... Doesn't matter as long as it is consistent and ball explodes off the racket.

 

[Phil]

Didn't she hit her forehand with a continental grip? I always thought continental forehands looked odd. But then again you could critique Sampras forehand also, it was an odd looking eastern forehand.... Doesn't matter as long as it is consistent and ball explodes off the racket.

I'm not sure, but I thought she hit her forehand with an eastern grip-someone can (and will!) correct me if I'm wrong. It looked strange, but like I said, I'm not quibbling about form-especially when it results in the kind of careers that Graff and the Williams had.

The reason that neither Venus or Serena will never match Graff's exalted numbers has nothing to do with form and everything to do with their much lower level of focus and dedication.

 

[Datacipher]

I'm not sure, but I thought she hit her forehand with an eastern grip-someone can (and will!) correct me if I'm wrong. .

I would say Eastern Phil. She sort of wrapped her thumb in an odd way sometimes which made it harder to tell, but clearly the hand was behind the handle, so it was definitely eastern to semi-western, would have to look through pics again to be sure. It wasn't continental. The odd look was because of her proclivity to:

1.hit with a later contact point and whip the racquet up the back with elbow not tucked in. Because of her late contact, you would also notice her exaggerated high follow through. It became trendy later in teaching circles to call try to teach this for emergencies and they gave it names like "the buggy whip forehand", but it's been around forever. Often people like Sampras and many others would use it on the run or when late. Steffi often used it as her regular shot, even when she had plenty of time.

2.she combined her late upward karate chop swing with a tendancy to leap upward into it. Gave the whole shot a sort of strange, late, person leaping for joy effect.

I wouldn't call it beautiful either, but the results she produced with it sure were.

 

[Scorch]

As has been said, all that matters is getting the win, playing pretty does not matter (although when you have both going on like federer its a plus).

Both Venus and Serena know their strengths - getting the killer blow in as early as possibe, high UE high winner count. But as has also been mentioned they will have to evolve or 'die' as the other players have upped their level to allow them to defend against the onslaught and also smack a few winners themselves. In short they will have to get more consistency.

But why the Williams sisters as always so prone to receive such scathing criticism is beyond me. I am avoiding the obvious possible reasons because, well because that debate is boring.

And I never ever hear complaints about the moans and groans in the mens game, there are couple of real gurners (especially once the clay season gets underway).

Clearly women players should be:
Silent
Pretty (insert own criteria)
Play pretty
Never speak their mind, be arrogant, etc in interviews

????????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[Camilio Pascual]

Just curious. All you guys who find them boring, hard to listen to, or find them unpleasant to watch in some way, have you seen your last Williams sisters match?
The same people keep telling us all this and I wonder why you are even watching them.

 

[35ft6]

"She played fairly consistently,'' Williams said. ``I probably shouldn't have made so many mistakes. I'll remember not to next time.''

Yeah, that sucks. I hate it when I forget to not make mistakes. Sometimes while playing I tell myself "make more mistakes... make more mistakes..." But then later I'll realize I messed up, I had it all backwards, that I should have tried to make LESS mistakes. Yeah.

 

[Dedans Penthouse]

No, they couldn't kick my butt.

Dude, sight unseen, I honestly wouldn't be able to pass judgement on the above comment of yours, and to that end, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt--you may be Karstan Barasch for all I know. Now, having said that, as to your "NO, THEY COULDN'T KICK MY BUTT" comment: You DO know that we HAVE to call you on that one, fair enough? So (in the interest of truth, justice and the American way), I think it's only fair that you're allowed to present your side of it, i.e. to back up your "kick butt" statement with examples of exactly what you've accomplished (i.e. what "ranked" player's scalps you have to your credit, etc.).

For what's it's worth, the Williams sisters DO have 11 Slams to their credit....and were ranked BEST IN THE WORLD (at one point).....not-too-shabby, their "wobbly" forehands notwithstanding. The ball's in your court Coria if you'd like to backup your "kick butt" statement. I'm not talking about "sloppy vs. not-sloppy" I'm referring solely to the "kick butt" question. Thx.

...your know nothing about my tennis or playing experience. Don't call people jerks who you know nothing about. I've accomplished more in competitive play than you could dream about. And in my prime, I was often much more enjoyable to watch than than the sloppiness of these two.

Correct again. Crize DOESN'T know you and of course knows NOTHING of your game. But in the same vein, how can you then respond in kind by saying "I've accomplised more in competitive play than you could DREAM about." (?). How are you then CERTAIN of this regarding an unknown? Who knows, maybe Crize has some "scalps" to his credit too, no? In this case (again, in the interest of truth, justice and the American way), I'd extend the "invitation" TO YOU BOTH if only to validate your "I've accomplished MORE then you could dream about" claim.

(oh btw, "I'm 41 and can still beat most high school players" ..... doesn't count as "ordained knowledge.") ;-)

Serena is a great competitor and a great athlete. But her tennis is sloppy, as is Venus'. That's the truth.

From my "expert" standpoint (ah..hem...), at first blush, both girls (especially Venus) seem to let their elbows stray too far from their bodies when hitting forehands, that is (as I'm sure you know), when the elbow "strays" or "flies around" too far away from the body, the reference point with respect to EXACTLY where the racquet face is at contact becomes compromised, that is, it will VARY from stroke to stroke. Imho, they both (esp. Venus) should "reel their elbows in" a tad to a more stable (consistent) position alongside their ribcage.

Lord knows, I've tried to convey this to their dad Richard ad-nauseum, but all's he does is snap at me:

"Go away, OFAY!.....You thread hi-jacker cracker!"

 

[Coria]

Tennis is not a damned fashion show or the ballet. Get that into your thick skull; It's tennis, or didn't you know that? If all pro tennis players possessed beautiful, aesthetic styles, tennis would be borning, kinda like...the ballet, but without the good music. But you'd like that, right?


That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about these world class athletes who make stupid errors and often play very unentertaining matches. Their 2001 US Open final was the most hideous tennis in a final I've ever seen. They are blessed with great power, especially Serena, and great athleticism. Both are blessed with great court coverage. If they worked harder at their games, got the right coaching, they would both be so much better than they are. They make too many unforced errors, it's that simple

"Fact is, the "joke" is on the other players-those who you might think play like swans, and YOU. None of them have 11 Majors to their credit, now do they? Let's say it TO-GE-THER...E-LEVEN. Eleven. One One. Double toothpicks."

And Venus won all four of hers in less than a two year period. Over her 7 years of playing, she's not been consistent at all. Instead of improving, which she should be, she has regressed. Being great is about doing it over a sustained period of time--Venus fails in this manner. She'll retire with four--18 less than Graf, 14 less than Chris and Martina, 7 less than Seles.

Serena is a wonderful competitor and I give her props for that. She's a great athlete and I give her props for that. But, as a tennis player, she has also not improved. She's not developed new shots, new strategies, more consistency. She's very mentally tough. But as a pure player, she can't light a candle to the greats of the game. NONE of the past great champions showed such an array of errors and mistakes in their games.

"And Graf and Sanchez Vacario-those are NOT the two prettiest games I've ever seen-far from it."

these ladies were so far more consistent and intelligent on the court than Serena it's a joke. They played some of the greatest finals you'll ever hope to see in this game. You've probably don't even know what I'm talking about.

"Simply put, if you're sick of watching the Williams sisters, then stop watching them. That's what I do when I'm tired of something that I have some control over...I STOP doing the thing that's making me tired. Dumb frigging tennis fans like this-best solution is to develop a Game Boy or Game Box game in which you can program your OWN tennis players. Screw the real game!"

I'm allowed to state my opinion of these players. I'll admit, I've often not liked their attitudes, their dedication to the game, their refusal to work with a world class coach and their pride in often not giving their opponents the credit.

 

[Coria]

Are you a female "coria"? If you arent then stop bragging about yourself. How many grand slams have you won anyways? just curious.

There are guys who would be ranked 3000 in the world that could dust the Williams' sisters.

When Chris Evert was ranked number one, whe would play her husband, ranked around 175 at the time. she said he'd GIVE her one game in three sets.

I'm not going to go into what I've accomplished in the past. I will tell you at my best I would have beaten both of these ladies. If you choose not to believe it, that's your problem.

A former hitting partner of mine used to hit with Capriati about 8 years ago and absolutely crush her. The disparity between women's and men's tennis is greater than you'll ever know.

 

[Rabbit]

I'm not going to go into what I've accomplished in the past. I will tell you at my best I would have beaten both of these ladies.

Well, it would seem that we're in the presence of anonymous greatness.

Back on subject, there have been plenty of players that people thought had ugly games. Bjorn Borg was one, his game was so unorthodox that many wondered why his coach didn't change it. Berglin saw a winner in his game and didn't think it should be changed. Likewise, John McEnroe's strokes have been called awkward and his service motion has been ridiculed...until it was discovered how good the delivery actually was. Jimmy Connors and Chris Evert were thought of as oddballs because they had two handed backhands. Monica Seles...the list goes on and it's full of champions.

Someone else mentioned the grunts in the mens' game and how no one is complaining. Well, let me add the two cents that I was going to add anyway in a new thread. I watched Venus play Maria Sharapova. I have to say that during parts of the match, I laughed so hard I couldn't focus on the tennis. It was a great match, very competitive, but the noises were funnier than hell. The constant shrieks...the yells, high pitched squeals.... The really funny thing is that with all the noise, one needs to remember that the rackets weigh about half of what they once did. Someone else posted the Serena played with a 14 ounce racket. The way she broke that one the other night, it certainly didn't look like it weighed much over 10 ounces.

 

[Kevin Patrick]

Rabbit,
Did you see the Serena-Venus match? During one of their extended rallies, both players were in full shriek mode. It ended with Serena screaming while hitting a drop shot! Hilarious.

 

[federerhoogenbandfan]

Tennis is not a damned fashion show or the ballet. Get that into your thick skull; It's tennis, or didn't you know that? If all pro tennis players possessed beautiful, aesthetic styles, tennis would be borning, kinda like...the ballet, but without the good music. But you'd like that, right?

Fact is, the "joke" is on the other players-those who you might think play like swans, and YOU. None of them have 11 Majors to their credit, now do they? Let's say it TO-GE-THER...E-LEVEN. Eleven. One One. Double toothpicks.

And Graff and Sanchez Vacario-those are NOT the two prettiest games I've ever seen-far from it.

Simply put, if you're sick of watching the Williams sisters, then stop watching them. That's what I do when I'm tired of something that I have some control over...I STOP doing the thing that's making me tired. Dumb frigging tennis fans like this-best solution is to develop a Game Boy or Game Box game in which you can program your OWN tennis players. Screw the real game!

I agree with most of what you say, but you are wrong on one point.
The none of them have 11 majors to their credit part. Some of the players Coria mentioned like Graf, Evert, and Seles, have more and (apart from Seles)
many many more slams than the Williams. So the joke is not on this group of women. I doubt Serena will ever come close to winning as many as Graf and Evert, or that Venus will equal Seles. I do think Serena can pass Seles but that is about it.

 

[federerhoogenbandfan]

There are guys who would be ranked 3000 in the world that could dust the Williams' sisters.

When Chris Evert was ranked number one, whe would play her husband, ranked around 175 at the time. she said he'd GIVE her one game in three sets.

I'm not going to go into what I've accomplished in the past. I will tell you at my best I would have beaten both of these ladies. If you choose not to believe it, that's your problem.

A former hitting partner of mine used to hit with Capriati about 8 years ago and absolutely crush her. The disparity between women's and men's tennis is greater than you'll ever know.

I agree. It is quite believable when a guy like yourself says he could beat a top female pro, if one does not know the guy, or know if he is perhaps a good college player, etc....There are guys that will never be pro tour regulars that could beat the Williams are any other top female pro. That is just reality. The disaparity between mens and womens tennis is a chasm and it is not sexist.

 

[Coria]

I know it sounds sexist, but it's not. I actually enjoy watching some ladies matches more than men. The Graf-Sanchez, Martina-Chris, Graf-Seles matches were unbelievably entertaining.

 

[Rabbit]

Rabbit,
Did you see the Serena-Venus match? During one of their extended rallies, both players were in full shriek mode. It ended with Serena screaming while hitting a drop shot! Hilarious.

Yes, I did. I thought/think that the whole screeching thing is funnier than hell. Sharapova makes Seles look like Stan Smith for God's sake. I can't believe that they can make that much noise and not affect their opponent. Further, it amazes me that a player like Roddick can shush the crowd while his opponent sounds like a Kawasaki 2-cycle motorcycle with no muffler.

Have a great weekend, KP...

 

[West Coast Ace]

I agree. It is quite believable when a guy like yourself says he could beat a top female pro, if one does not know the guy, or know if he is perhaps a good college player, etc....There are guys that will never be pro tour regulars that could beat the Williams are any other top female pro. That is just reality. The disaparity between mens and womens tennis is a chasm and it is not sexist.

And I agree with you and will add:

V and S couldn't beat the #1 on many of the top US Men's College Tennis teams. UNLESS the match was played on Arthur Ashe Stadium with a full crowd and a live TV audience. In that case, V and S might have a chance - if the guy got nervous and couldn't play his game. But if they played on a practice court with a few witnesses, the guys would win.

Note: the previous comments don't mean I don't admire and respect the WTA players - they just don't play the game as well as the male pros, don't generate the same revenues and therefore DO NOT deserve equal pay. As Federerhoogenbandfan said, it's just reality.

 

[tennissavy]

I agree. It is quite believable when a guy like yourself says he could beat a top female pro, if one does not know the guy, or know if he is perhaps a good college player, etc....There are guys that will never be pro tour regulars that could beat the Williams are any other top female pro. That is just reality. The disaparity between mens and womens tennis is a chasm and it is not sexist.

I've seen a lot of women beat men in tennis. I am a man so why would I lie?

 

[Phil]

I agree with most of what you say, but you are wrong on one point.
The none of them have 11 majors to their credit part. Some of the players Coria mentioned like Graf, Evert, and Seles, have more and (apart from Seles)
many many more slams than the Williams. So the joke is not on this group of women. I doubt Serena will ever come close to winning as many as Graf and Evert, or that Venus will equal Seles. I do think Serena can pass Seles but that is about it.

I know that Graff has 22 majors. I was referring there to CURRENT WTA players...i.e. the joke IS on...used Graff as a similar example to the Williams-not the prettiest form but awsome results, regardless.

 

[federerhoogenbandfan]

Ok fair enough. Given their ages I think Sharapova and Henin probably will both end up with more slam titles than Venus, although probably not Serena. That is all speculation though, fact is both Williams have more than anybody right now though. Graf's game was definitely not pretty either.

 

[federerhoogenbandfan]

People say Mauresmo has such a "pretty game" but it is a pretty game with 0 slams finals in over 6 years.

 

[SavPro]

But why the Williams sisters as always so prone to receive such scathing criticism is beyond me.

Scorch, I don't like them because they are such poor losers. They always have some lame excuse. Even if a injury affected your play, you don't claim that is the main reason you lost. That is, if you have any class.

 

[wdP]

Well, it would seem that we're in the presence of anonymous greatness.

Suprised no one tried Google. And it was just a random search .. I am completely ignorant when it comes to Tennis (Pros, rankings, etc) except for playing, which I haven't done in about 2 years.

http://www.gcoria.com/