What exactly was Oscar's role then?
Winning
- Thread starter Djokolate
- Start date
What exactly was Oscar's role then?
I used to live near an "international" airport - it was so-called because there was a flight to/from Mexico!
thug the bunny
Professional
I wasn't really talking about visualization for purposes of playing a match, but I just like to replay good shots in my head afterwards cause I'm addicted to them. It's a cheap way of getting that "ahhh" feeling again. I do the same after a round of golf. Am I wierd?
maverick66
Hall of Fame
dozu
Banned
Compared to the rest of the posters on this site not at all.
tennis is full of strange people... golf is of strangER ones.
TennisAddict121
Banned
I was not aware that Oscar had a role
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
Well, according to his web site and subsequent statements he was critical and formative.
TennisAddict121
Banned
Thats not the case at all. Guga worked with those two coaches his entire career and that was all, there were no part time coaches or additional coaching members added to his team. And neither of these coaches were influenced by Wegner in any way. If Oscar did work with Kuerten it would have to be before either, and that would be around age 4....so I'm going to say probably not. Guga's backhand has very early take back and a huge loopy swing, he did not wait for the ball in any way.
Apparently Wegner claims to have coached Spadea, which is not true. Vincent's dad trained him from age 6 til he became a serious competitor on the junior circuit
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
That is really sad if true, but I can't say that would surprise me. You seem pretty sure and I wonder why you feel that way?
Funny because we are doing interviews with tour coaches as part of our filming at Indian Wells, and Larri said something similar.
Funny because we are doing interviews with tour coaches as part of our filming at Indian Wells, and Larri said something similar.
maverick66
Hall of Fame
The only way to really know is to ask Guga. Anyone know Guga and able to call him?
Until he says Oscar coached me I dont believe it. Oscar claims to much for me to believe that.
Also Spadea was coached by his dad. I know this because I know Spadea and his dad.
Until he says Oscar coached me I dont believe it. Oscar claims to much for me to believe that.
Also Spadea was coached by his dad. I know this because I know Spadea and his dad.
TennisAddict121
Banned
I know because of Maverick66
As for Guga, I am obsessed with him. And as a history major I know how to research. Seriously if you look at articles players getting outside help or new coaches is always published. And a multiple slam champion such as Gustavo Kuerten getting help would be published make no mistake. I have never seen any source other than the Wegner webpage mention Wegner and Guga in the same sentence. And to list my sources I used WorldCat which any college history major would know allows you access to pretty much every article ever written
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JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
Interesting. Thanks. All very quiet on the mtm front and usually so responsive there.
TenniseaWilliams
Professional
It almost seems orchestrated. Spooky.
5263
G.O.A.T.
Sorry I have not been on here for a few hours for you to whine to, but it has nothing to do with the unimportant issues that have been raised. Good that you can admit that your 30 yrs of TV watching have not made you an expert on who has been on TV, and it gives another example of you speaking on something with limited info.
No, I would not agree that this is his big claim to fame. It is possible that this association has been over played, like your claim to mostly post here when it deals with you or TP site, But I have no reason to believe that; none at all. Least of all due to comments from anyone here. Most everything I've seen here has been misconstrued.
I feel like his most important claim is his excellent technique observations from over 20 yrs ago, that you are trying to catch up to and understand, on TP. After that I would say his work in Spain including time as a National Coach in the time leading to Spain's big move on the top 100.
But I'm not surprised you would think that an issue like who coached who, is more important than the substance of the tennis instruction.
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5263
G.O.A.T.
The only way to really know is to ask Guga. Anyone know Guga and able to call him?
Also Spadea was coached by his dad. I know this because I know Spadea and his dad.
I agree with your first sentence here, as it is the best way to know!
This might be a good time to separate Coaching from training. That is how it was shared with me.
Training can be part of coaching, but does not have to be. Spadea, his sister, and his father were coached to some extent by Oscar. The father did most of the training.
Training would be more like the drills and reps of tennis, like RL did for Sampras, whereas most of the coaching came from Fisher over the years.
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Very interesting. Does not seem to be consistent with what we have heard about this modern teaching technique.
That is quite sad.
5263
G.O.A.T.
Your comment shows how little you know of this modern teaching. There is nothing that would limit a large takeback or loop in the MTM teaching.
5263
G.O.A.T.
That I would admit almost anything is possible??
I was wondering which of you would take that bait and run with it; purposely leaving out that I stated that I did not believe it to be the case that anything had been overplayed.
Great example for anyone who cares about your credibility to see where you stand and how it is not a straw man that I have created, but a fact you have demonstrated.
TenniseaWilliams
Professional
In normal circumstances, the burden of proof should be on the person making the grandiose claims. Just because he says it, doesn't make it so.
In this case, Oscar needs to provide evidence that his ridiculous claims (such as being responsible for the incredible tennis success of Spain) are not as contrived as the rest of his nonsense.
In this case, Oscar needs to provide evidence that his ridiculous claims (such as being responsible for the incredible tennis success of Spain) are not as contrived as the rest of his nonsense.
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
The basic problem is one of credibility. Someone who "overplayed" their resume (and "overplayed" I think can only be considered a euphemism here) would be fired from a conventional job.
In talking to Larri, I discovered that if Oscar indeed had any influence on or contact with Kuerten, it did not include teaching him that backhand. He was a two-hander until he came to Larry.
This disregard for facts and creation of promotional statements that are clearly false is really the same problem with the methodology itself. "Stalking" or "waiting" occurs the way it is described by Oscar in only a very small percentage of world class forehands.
Racket speed is not created by the "wrap" finish. The wrap is a conseqeunce, and on and on.
The funny thing is that when I first discussed some of these problems with Oscar and sent him video showing him some of these points, rather than responding in the context of the technical arguments, he wrote a really nasty letter saying something about how I was "destroying" American junior tennis.
Other people in the industry have had similar experiences. Disagree with him and he turns nasty.
Here are some of the claims from Oscar's site:
"Oscar Wegner's breakthrough techniques, which he initially taught in the National Tennis School in Spain, then in Florianopolis, Brazil, where Oscar coached a group of young players that included "Guga" Kuerten until he was 14, later on TV in the USA, and finally broadcast worldwide through ESPN International, have produced top players in the USA and in countries as far as Russia, Thailand, South America, Spain, and the Far East. Among those are the famous Williams sisters, whose father Richard learned from Oscar's televised lessons the techniques that put them on short notice on top of the tennis world, and Paradorn Srichaphan, whose father coached him aided by Oscar's videos."
Would any of these claims really hold up to scrutiny?
In talking to Larri, I discovered that if Oscar indeed had any influence on or contact with Kuerten, it did not include teaching him that backhand. He was a two-hander until he came to Larry.
This disregard for facts and creation of promotional statements that are clearly false is really the same problem with the methodology itself. "Stalking" or "waiting" occurs the way it is described by Oscar in only a very small percentage of world class forehands.
Racket speed is not created by the "wrap" finish. The wrap is a conseqeunce, and on and on.
The funny thing is that when I first discussed some of these problems with Oscar and sent him video showing him some of these points, rather than responding in the context of the technical arguments, he wrote a really nasty letter saying something about how I was "destroying" American junior tennis.
Other people in the industry have had similar experiences. Disagree with him and he turns nasty.
Here are some of the claims from Oscar's site:
"Oscar Wegner's breakthrough techniques, which he initially taught in the National Tennis School in Spain, then in Florianopolis, Brazil, where Oscar coached a group of young players that included "Guga" Kuerten until he was 14, later on TV in the USA, and finally broadcast worldwide through ESPN International, have produced top players in the USA and in countries as far as Russia, Thailand, South America, Spain, and the Far East. Among those are the famous Williams sisters, whose father Richard learned from Oscar's televised lessons the techniques that put them on short notice on top of the tennis world, and Paradorn Srichaphan, whose father coached him aided by Oscar's videos."
Would any of these claims really hold up to scrutiny?
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I think there might be a forced cause-effect claim here. The Williams sisters/Richard might have watched some TV lessons, just like they watched other players play, or their coaches/mentors/hitting partners play etc. From there to imply a cause-effect relationship to one particular input requires a lot of proof, which I don't see.
maverick66
Hall of Fame
And that is really one of the biggest issues with MTM. When you point out a flaw in what they are saying they get really nasty and defensive. Instead of just debating the argument I get called ignorant or that I am persecuting them.
Thats a tough claim to make. The Guga thing really could be Oscar did a one day clinic at the club where Guga grew up. I have been on courts with guys like that where they come in for a week act like they know everything and then move on. ITs annoying and they take credit for the hard work that another coach really put in to teach a kid.
As for the video tape or watching on tv. I would put that up to bs claims as well. I have never heard any of those individuals claim that Oscar did anything for them. If he did it was so small they dont remember or dont care to.
No they wouldnt. And that will and always has been the issue.
maverick66
Hall of Fame
C
chico9166
Guest
Ahhh yes, exactly.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=296302
tennis angel
Posts: n/a Guga's Backhand
Guga learned that backhand from Oscar Wegner. He told Oscar he wanted to hit the 1hbh the way Oscar did, so Oscar taught it to him.
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From http://od-tennis.blogspot.com/2007/04/tennis-week-interview-with-oscar-wegner.html:
Tennis Week has an interesting interview with the Oscar Wegner
"What I taught Guga was to change his timing and to track the ball to give himself more timing."
Tennis Week has an interesting interview with the Oscar Wegner
"What I taught Guga was to change his timing and to track the ball to give himself more timing."
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That is quite common actually, and more so if the regular coach is a coach in the same club. That is how these clinics work. I was once in a 1 day Vic Braden clinic. The actual coaching is done by the club pros, who have their regular students. The big name attracts customers. The assistant coaches make some money. It is all good. The big guy (or small guy in Vic's case hehe) gives some overall tips (in this case it was mostly "hit low to high"), tells some stories, and analyses the video or whatever.
C
chico9166
Guest
Who did she turn out to be? Do you know?
maverick66
Hall of Fame
Your thread is unfortunately gone.
It seems to be the newest battleground for MTM. If someone mentions Oscar or MTM the thread will take a nasty turn and fast. Its sad really that MTM feels the need to come on here and promote themselves and ruin the board.
MixieP
Hall of Fame
I agree. I want to hear more of your tips for winning.
5263
G.O.A.T.
Out of respect for the OP, I'll start a thread related to the MTM topic so this one can get back on track if there is the interest. Even though my original comments were right on topic, the haters will stop at nothing to bring in the insults and pass the blame.
If interested, follow to the new thread where I will comment on some of this nonsense for those who have a true interest. I know the ones making the negative comments have their mind set already, but their misconceptions make for excellent explanations on a range of issues.
Good luck with Winning!
maverick66
Hall of Fame
Best one you will ever hear. Keep the ball in play. Seriously always aim to keep the ball in. Especially if you are playing at a lower level where people can not hit winners on a consistent basis. That doesnt mean push it means make good decisions on shots. If you are behind the baseline go crosscourt 90-95% of the time. You will win trust me.
Thanks maverick66 and MixieP
I always try to stay on topic. I typed out a good response on visualization that got caught up in MTM wars. Was disappointed thought it was a good post. Unfortunately MTM wont leave the board alone and keeps trying to promote itself.
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
It really is a sign of level when "keep it in" doesn't work. That is if you are willing to keep keeping it in long enough, which is sometimes indefinitely. A lot of players who call themselves 4.5 or even higher can fall to a determined opponent without much discernable game.
Most players aspire to actually win tennis points and tennis matches--but that takes multiple physical and mental skills that must be developed with clarity, discipline and repetition.
I think this is what makes the game fun--it is so complex and challenging. You have to respect the difficulty and enjoy the process of mastering all the aspects a little more and a little more.
You know it's true this and other threads quickly get highjacked and I've been guilty of steering them of course myself.
If anyone is interested though I'll sketch my take on a few of the aforementioned components.
Most players aspire to actually win tennis points and tennis matches--but that takes multiple physical and mental skills that must be developed with clarity, discipline and repetition.
I think this is what makes the game fun--it is so complex and challenging. You have to respect the difficulty and enjoy the process of mastering all the aspects a little more and a little more.
You know it's true this and other threads quickly get highjacked and I've been guilty of steering them of course myself.
If anyone is interested though I'll sketch my take on a few of the aforementioned components.
maverick66
Hall of Fame
I have seen high level players win the first set by just keeping a good heavy ball cross court. Not being aggressive but letting the other guy pull the trigger when he was still semi cold. If you can keep it deep and out of the dead middle you would be shocked at how many points your opponent will donate. Let them get down early and give you an easier match.
I wish I had learned that earlier in tennis instead of thinking slap a winner right out of the gate. It works better to be consistent and work your way in. We are not Federer.
I wish I had learned that earlier in tennis instead of thinking slap a winner right out of the gate. It works better to be consistent and work your way in. We are not Federer.
Yeah, big problems arise when my opponent is using the CC strategy first, and he's more akin to running around fetching balls, while I like to end the point with more force and direction.
Just personal taste. Some like to run the opponent ragged and win by attrition.
Other's like to win by forcing shots, first strike tennis, variety, and an all around game.
Both work, use what you want.
Just personal taste. Some like to run the opponent ragged and win by attrition.
Other's like to win by forcing shots, first strike tennis, variety, and an all around game.
Both work, use what you want.
10nistennis
Rookie
ANYWAYS, for the OP's #1, slowing down during a match is quite often a good thing.
It might not necessarily mean slowing down your stroke, but definitely slow down your heart rate, mind, and body.
Heart Rate: When you start losing or feeling your strokes deteriorate in front of your eyes, you start becoming nervous, and you get scared that you will lose the match. This causes you to have an increased heart rate, which will also lead to even more missed shots, lapses of concentration and unnecessary tensing of the body.
Solution: When you start losing or feeling your strokes worsening, take a deep breath. Think about how you might be missing it, and how you can improve on it. If one deep breathes through the diaphragm, it is physically unable for one to feel fear.
Body: Unnecessary tensing of the body. Feeling scared and nervous will almost always cause one to do this. It is natural. But this causes every muscle in your body to be tense and stiff, which will inhibit your strokes. You can't properly hit a clean, relaxed stroke if your body is tense. Swing speed goes down, body can't properly rotate, trunk and abdomen muscles will resist turning.
Solution: Same as the heart rate solution. Also, just take a few seconds to stretch if you are doing bad. This keeps you relax, clears your brain, and gives you time to formulate a game plan.
Brain:Usually if you are doing bad, your brain gets filled with random thoughts. "Oh no, I'm making a very bad impression on myself. Everyone thinks I suck now." "How can I be losing to this guy?" "What the hell is happening?" All this unnecessary jabber makes you lose concentration of the point of the match, which is to win. You start thinking about unimportant things, and soon your focus is gone, and your game drops even lower. This in turn causes more frustration.
Solution: Clear your brain. Don't worry about who is watching, or what is happening. Just focus on one point at the time, and envision yourself playing the way you want to play, and incorporate your whole mind and body into that. Stay positive.
Hope this helps, and for more mental tips, check out the link in my sig. It's some good useful stuff.
It might not necessarily mean slowing down your stroke, but definitely slow down your heart rate, mind, and body.
Heart Rate: When you start losing or feeling your strokes deteriorate in front of your eyes, you start becoming nervous, and you get scared that you will lose the match. This causes you to have an increased heart rate, which will also lead to even more missed shots, lapses of concentration and unnecessary tensing of the body.
Solution: When you start losing or feeling your strokes worsening, take a deep breath. Think about how you might be missing it, and how you can improve on it. If one deep breathes through the diaphragm, it is physically unable for one to feel fear.
Body: Unnecessary tensing of the body. Feeling scared and nervous will almost always cause one to do this. It is natural. But this causes every muscle in your body to be tense and stiff, which will inhibit your strokes. You can't properly hit a clean, relaxed stroke if your body is tense. Swing speed goes down, body can't properly rotate, trunk and abdomen muscles will resist turning.
Solution: Same as the heart rate solution. Also, just take a few seconds to stretch if you are doing bad. This keeps you relax, clears your brain, and gives you time to formulate a game plan.
Brain:Usually if you are doing bad, your brain gets filled with random thoughts. "Oh no, I'm making a very bad impression on myself. Everyone thinks I suck now." "How can I be losing to this guy?" "What the hell is happening?" All this unnecessary jabber makes you lose concentration of the point of the match, which is to win. You start thinking about unimportant things, and soon your focus is gone, and your game drops even lower. This in turn causes more frustration.
Solution: Clear your brain. Don't worry about who is watching, or what is happening. Just focus on one point at the time, and envision yourself playing the way you want to play, and incorporate your whole mind and body into that. Stay positive.
Hope this helps, and for more mental tips, check out the link in my sig. It's some good useful stuff.
maverick66
Hall of Fame
I am not advocating staying cross court all match. Just for the first games/set. You are not warm and ready to really be aggressive out of the gate.
Seriously next time you play a match try it and you will be shocked at how many points you get for free because the other guy came out blasting. Also you might see a rise in your game as your confidence goes up from you not piling up the unforced errors.
Confidence is the greatest thing in sports. If you dont have it your odds of winning are not very high. The best way to build confidence in tennis in my opinion is to keep the ball in play. Not push but making a high percentage of your shots will increase your confidence.
MixieP
Hall of Fame
How to keep on winning when you are winning?
How to keep on winning when you are winning?
I’d be interested to hear your tips on this kind of scenario. You start off the first set in great fashion, playing consistently and aggressively and before you know it you’re up 5-0. And somehow, even though you didn’t intend to, you take your foot off the accelerator, and your opponent creeps back into the match.
How do you maintain focus and concentration when things seem to go a little too easy?
How to keep on winning when you are winning?
I’d be interested to hear your tips on this kind of scenario. You start off the first set in great fashion, playing consistently and aggressively and before you know it you’re up 5-0. And somehow, even though you didn’t intend to, you take your foot off the accelerator, and your opponent creeps back into the match.
How do you maintain focus and concentration when things seem to go a little too easy?
dozu
Banned
if you are up by 5-0, try your best to win 6-0.
MixieP
Hall of Fame
Thanks for your reply.
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