ACE of Hearts
Bionic Poster
The 90s have similar players like the ones in the 00s.With the exception of guys like Edberg and Becker who where going downhill in the 90s.
without a big forehand is roddick just another Goran?
- Thread starter The Gorilla
- Start date
ShcMad
Hall of Fame
I don't discredit Roddick's serve being pretty good, but his CURRENT forehand being TOP 7?? You cannot be serious. Chalk flew up! haha j/k. Back to the topic, I can tell you that Federer, Nadal, Davydenko, Djokovic, Safin, Delic, Verdasco, Gonzalez, Mathieu, Massu, Berdych, Tsonga, Ancic, Srichaphan, Blake, Ferrer, Ferrero, Bagman, Tursunov, Nalbandian, Almagro, Becker, Del Potro, Andreev, Lopez can all outhit him and abuse him in a forehand-to-forehand rally. Plus, have you ever seen Roddick being able to put away a short ball with his forehand? I certainly haven't.
dukemunson
Rookie
The guy is done on clay any way you look at it so I'm not reading too far into clay stats...as for the serve I just can't agree...Fed has a great serve, but its not Roddicks (now if only Roddick had volleys, movement and a backhand)...
anointedone
Banned
I think the early 90s had more depth the the current decade. The late 90s was similar though, not really any better, or maybe even worse. Remember Sampras was probably his most dominant in 2nd quarter of the 90s though, when the competition was still very good. I actually think he liked the harder the competition. It is funny to see how alot of his losses in slam events are not to fellow great players, but more second rate kind of players. It was almost like he got up for the toughest people and put on a clinic, and played down to players he felt beneath him a bit.
anointedone
Banned
OK point taken. Probably isnt fair to judge him via a clay court match.
dukemunson
Rookie
That is a rough list that I cant agree with...Delic? Are you serious?? Becker...Srichipan...Bagman? I'll back track it a bit, but I still gotta keep him around 10...just cant get over how quickly people forget that a week ago everyone was bemoaning the fact that he was stuck playing Fed in the semi's because he would definetely beat Nadal and now everyones saying he doesn't even have a top 50 forehand...crazy how it works...
ACE of Hearts
Bionic Poster
Look at it this way.Put Roddick down 15-40 yesterday in the 5th set in the final instead of Federer.U think he gets out of the jam with his serve?I dont think so.Thats the difference between Fed's serve and Roddick's serve.Fed's serve is more effective.
Maybe if you don't equate a better serve with speed alone you will understand more.
anointedone
Banned
I agree with there atleast. Delic, Becker, Srichiphan, Baghdatis, are crazy ones to put over Roddick on the forehand. Well some would argue Baghdatis but I think he is way overrated personally. The other 3 are nonsense. Srichiphan is way past his best days, and even then he was outforehanded by Roddick easily. The other 2 dont even have much of a ground game.
dukemunson
Rookie
That's more of a question of nerves though...not ability. People had better jump shots then Jordan, but with 3.5 seconds left you got him the ball. I'm not equating it with speed...I'm equating it with effectiveness. Roddick's serve is heavier and better then Federer's...first and second...
ShcMad
Hall of Fame
haha ok ok, I might have overdone the list a little bit. Some of the guys I mentioned don't have the consistency of the current Roddick, but IMHO, they can out-hit Roddick in a forehand to forehand rally.
Just for the record, I don't hate Roddick, but the fact that Roddick USED TO have one of the deadliest forehands on the tour but not anymore bothers me somehow. I remember the days when his forehand looked scary and intimidating. You did not want to mess with it. Nowadays, everybody picks on it and gets away because of the guy's inability to crush it with authority.
ACE of Hearts
Bionic Poster
Its pretty weird how his forehand turned into crap.I thought it was similar to Fernando Gonzalez's forehand.
dukemunson
Rookie
I personally dislike Roddick...but are we going a little far in saying "everyone picks on it"...Roddicks not going to be a factor on clay and won the Wimby warm-up tourney only to lose in the quarters to a guy that couldnt miss...I think we're reading a bit too far into a loss here...
ACE of Hearts
Bionic Poster
My problem with Roddick's serve is that its too herky jerky.Federer's serve is a simple classic motion.Its very similar to Sampras's serve although he doesnt do the toe-thing but he turns his back and u dont know where he is gonna hit it.
Yet you seem to discount other factors like disguise and placement among other things that are equally important to executing a good serve. I don't care if Roddick serves 200mph all the time but if the other players start reading it then they will anticipate.
dukemunson
Rookie
Roddicks serve is not particularly attractive...nor do I have any idea how he generates that much pace with it...but that kick is nasty and the pace is there...I'll take everything Fed does on the court over Roddick without even a second thought except for the serve...that thing is ridiculous...
anointedone
Banned
Look at his matches to Verdasco and Mathieu though. He was being outplayed in the vast majority of the rallies, and only his serve and much superior nerve (compared to those two guys of course I mean) carried him through. I dont know how you can say his forehand looked better then either of those guys in those matches, yet you said top 7, and those guys probably are not above someone who has a top 7 forehand.
dukemunson
Rookie
Roddick has a better serve then Federer...I don't see how Federer's placement makes up for it, as Roddick's gets more free points off it then Federer...Not taking anything away from Fed, as he places it well and backs it up even better but if we're just talking serve, I'll take Roddicks any day over Federer's...
ACE of Hearts
Bionic Poster
Verdasco's forehand is bigger then Roddick right now.
dukemunson
Rookie
From what I saw, its his backhand that continues to kill him...the forehand is there...that slice backhand though just doesnt have enough on it to hurt people...the guy is all serve and forehand...but its a hell of a serve and pretty damn good forehand
anointedone
Banned
OK I will match those matches again on tape sometime, when it is rainy out or I want something to do in the background while doing house cleaning or something.
I thought I remembered him being outplayed forehand to forehand quite regularly in both, as oppose to just his backhand being picked on.Not enough free points to win the tournament.I would take Federer's any day.
Shinpachi222
New User
I think Roddick is WAY overrated, especially here in the U.S. He may have a big serve and all, but I don't see him as being too spectacular these days.
dukemunson
Rookie
Federer certainly didn't win the tournament because of his serve though...He can do everything else...the question though is would you take Federers serve over Roddicks? I really dont think so...the thought of Federer with Roddicks serve is downright scary...how would you break him?
dukemunson
Rookie
guy has been top 5 in the world for how many weeks? He's obviousaly no Sampras or Agassi, but it seems like on this board at least he's wildly underrated...guy just won Queens and lost 8-6 in the fifth in the quarters...
anointedone
Banned
Federer did win the final in large part because of his serve. His ground game was sluggish and subpar for him, and Nadal had the slight edge in that category in the final. Federer won alot of points with his serve, and at the net as well. He definitely needed the serve that day to win the final.
1)What part of Federer's game made a difference towards the end of the 5th set against Nadal?
2)Yes, I would take Federer's serve over Roddicks.
3)It is scary since that jerky motion wouldn't fit with the rest of Roger's game. Look it is possible that Roger can change his motion to come up with a BIGGER serve.Roddick's serve when he first came on the tour was crushing especially that the players didn't deal with the consistent power from a serve. Fast forward now when a lot of the players learned to deal with it. The wow factor from the power is diminished because they can anticipte it and read where it's going and they think that as long as they can return it, usually by blocking it back.
dukemunson
Rookie
But Roddicks gets that many free points every match...not just at the end of a particular set. You are blinded by the brilliance of what Federer does after the serve, as Roddick gets a lot more free points off his serve then Federer. Players do block Roddicks serve back...just not often enough to take him out of the top 5 in the last 4 years. Roddick really doesnt get broken often (though as was telling from his tiebreak record of 24-3, he doesn't break very often either). The jerky motion wouldn't fit Federers game? Maybe thats true, but if he had Roddicks jerky serve...he'd be that much better...
Like I said Roger can possibly hit it as hard as Roddick but he doesn't. Your contention that a heavy hard serve equals a better serve is still flawed.
origmarm
Hall of Fame
Perhaps I'm having a memory lapse here but I remember him as a blasting serve and some good volleys but not such great groundstrokes. That said it was a good 10yrs ago now so its possible I could be wrong on this one
The Gorilla
Banned
^^
np .
np .
dukemunson
Rookie
Your not making a coherent argument here. Roddick hits a hard serve...agreed. But it's also more effective then Federers and as such Roddick gets more free points off of it. Of course a heavy hard serve doesn't equal a better serve, its just in this case that a heavy hard serve is the better serve. I'm not taking anything away from Federer...but if we are just talking serve, nothing after it...you have to take Roddicks as he gets more free points then Fed. That's the thing with Federer though, you get his serve back and your in trouble...If you can get Roddick's serve back you gotta like your chances...
Eviscerator
Banned
For starters, I don't accept your premise that Goran was just a guy with a big serve. He had all sorts of talent and could play on different surfaces as well. His biggest problem was his mental game, or lack there of. You put another players brain (say Jim Couriers) in Goran and he would have been a much better player given all the talent he possessed.
Having weapons and techniques can make you a good player. But you need the mental strength to play in top level.
Roddick's a lot more mentally stronger and smarter than Goran. If you have read Roddick's interview he's very well aware of the progress of the match and the way each point was played. And he's able to make adjustments w/i his capability. It doesn't always bring success, but at least he knows what he's doing.
Roddick probably doesn't move as well, and doesn't have the greatest backhand, but I think his serve and forehand does compensate for it to certain extent.
You don't stay in top 10 by being lucky.
Roddick's a lot more mentally stronger and smarter than Goran. If you have read Roddick's interview he's very well aware of the progress of the match and the way each point was played. And he's able to make adjustments w/i his capability. It doesn't always bring success, but at least he knows what he's doing.
Roddick probably doesn't move as well, and doesn't have the greatest backhand, but I think his serve and forehand does compensate for it to certain extent.
You don't stay in top 10 by being lucky.
anchorsteamer
Rookie
goran was and still is my favorite player of all time, but I'll take Roddick's game and career over Gorans...
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