Would Serena have 24 with Emma's draw?

[Graf1stClass]

We all know the Wimbledon was a fluke and they put oil on the courts to take her out of two grand slams, but what if she had recovered from her hamstring and ended up with Raducanu's opponents? Would she be retired by now, or is she just too old to have ever had a chance?

What happened at Wimbledon was horrible because that imo was her best shot, but the USO was so random I believe it could have happened there too..

 

[MichaelNadal]

She'd have 24 if she hadn't gotten preggers

 

[Mr.Lob]

Serena has had "Emma's draw" for the last dozen years. She should have 34.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

She'd have 24 if she hadn't gotten preggers

She'd have 35+ if she didn't mug up much of her prime. 2001-16 was a good time to win every other slam or more. Still is, of course, if she weren't too old.

 

[Harry_Wild]

Serena might do well in first 4 rounds, but no longer fit to go into the 2nd week of a GS draw! Sure she got a great serve and return game but if she gets moved around the court in a rally, she sucking for air and is finished in the second set rolls around. Serena has so much other stuff in the works and seems like she just letting herself go physically! Looks like she trying to break Naomi's $55 million dollar per annual threshold in other business other then actually playing WTA tennis!

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Ok I get the Serena hate is real on this forum but if Serena had Emma’s draw she’d have #24.

Tell me who could beat Serena from who Emma faced?
Vogele
Zhang
Sorribes Tormo
Rogers
#11 Bencic
#17 Sakkari
Fernandez

Emma had the easiest draw to win a slam, no disrespect she went through qualifying but Serena could do what she did easy.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Serena has had "Emma's draw" for the last dozen years. She should have 34.

Are you kidding? Raducanu didn’t face a single top 10 player as well as a player who had ever been in a slam final let alone a slam champion. Serena has faced slam champs and top 10 players continually upon her return from pregnancy and beat far better opponents than Raducanu did. This is such a nonsense post.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Ok I get the Serena hate is real on this forum but if Serena had Emma’s draw she’d have #24.

Tell me who could beat Serena from who Emma faced?
Vogele
Zhang
Sorribes Tormo
Rogers
#11 Bencic
#17 Sakkari
Fernandez

Emma had the easiest draw to win a slam, no disrespect she went through qualifying but Serena could do what she did easy.

Serena at slams post return:
Venus, Pliskova, Bouchard, Halep, Sharapova, Svitolina, Sloane, Sakkari, Sabalenka, Halep

Raducanu:
nobody from the top 10, nobody who’s ever made a slam final.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

She'd have 24 if she hadn't gotten preggers

Unfortunately just facts. Kinda sucks from a female POV that it could cost her the spot at the top of the game cause she had a kid.

everyone says they think Serena’s aim to get another slam is to equal the homophobes record but for me it’s to show she can win a slam as mum and dedicate to her.

 

[Jokervich]

She'd have 24 if she hadn't gotten preggers

This. But you can't say that in this politically correct climate without being shamed, which is very sad.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

Raducanu is a slam champion without a top 10 win in her career, that’s cringe. At least Ostapenko and Sloane both beat top 10 players for their slam. Raducanu is hailed as a next ATG and she had the easiest draw. No shame of course considering she can’t make the draw but she’s done nothing since.

 

[Aussie Darcy]

This. But you can't say that in this politically correct climate without being shamed, which is very sad.

Just not true

 

[Harry_Wild]

Ugh, Emma just starred playing professionally when she won 2021 U.S. Open 3-4 months as a Pro while just finished high school, took her exams for college too just before too. Come on, give her a break! She 18!

 

[Autodidactic player]

Why are we comparing these two? Williams is by far the most accomplished current women's player. Raducanu has just started. By any measure, Williams' current resume' will be much longer with many more highlights. But, no matter where Raducanu winds up in the pantheon of women's tennis, her resume' will always have one qualifying highlight neither Williams, nor any other all-time great, includes.

 

[fed1]

Ok I get the Serena hate is real on this forum but if Serena had Emma’s draw she’d have #24.

Tell me who could beat Serena from who Emma faced?
Vogele
Zhang
Sorribes Tormo
Rogers
#11 Bencic
#17 Sakkari
Fernandez

Emma had the easiest draw to win a slam, no disrespect she went through qualifying but Serena could do what she did easy.

With Serena’s lack of consistency you‘d have to be honest and say Sorribes Tormo, Rogers, Bencic and Sakkari could have beaten Serena.

 

[Wander]

Ok I get the Serena hate is real on this forum but if Serena had Emma’s draw she’d have #24.

Tell me who could beat Serena from who Emma faced?
Vogele
Zhang
Sorribes Tormo
Rogers
#11 Bencic
#17 Sakkari
Fernandez

Emma had the easiest draw to win a slam, no disrespect she went through qualifying but Serena could do what she did easy.

In Serena's recent form she might have lost to Bencic or Sakkari if they played well.

Not the way they played against Raducanu, though.

 

[Daniel Andrade]

This. But you can't say that in this politically correct climate without being shamed, which is very sad.

Such a brave political statement from you to say that if she wasn't pregnant she would have had more time to train and win tournaments

 

[R. Schweikart]

Unfortunately just facts. Kinda sucks from a female POV that it could cost her the spot at the top of the game cause she had a kid.

everyone says they think Serena’s aim to get another slam is to equal the homophobes record but for me it’s to show she can win a slam as mum and dedicate to her.

Serena desperately tried to win #25 to overtake Graf in the GOAT race.
But this ship has sailed.

 

[zvelf]

Serena is not in good physical shape this year and has losses to #44 Podoroska and #68 Siniakova. If Serena had to play 10 matches in a row like Raducanu, she probably would not have had the stamina to win them all. Is it possible for Serena to win with Raducanu's draw. Definitely. Is it more likely for her to win than not? No.

 

[accidental]

Raducanu’s draw was easy but it’s not her fault the seeds folded like a house of cards before they got to her.

Raducanu would have drawn the no. 1 Barty, but instead Barty lost to Rogers. Raducanu then only dropped 3 games vs Rogers in the next round

 

[Headhunter_Tennis]

Serena is by far the GOAT even without number 24. As a modern day athlete she is just better than all the people who played before her.

 

[Midaso240]

Nope, I'd say Bencic or Sakkari could have beaten her. Hell, even Fernandez might have had a fighter's chance given the head case Serena has been in finals in recent years

 

[D-Lite]

Raducanu won the last major of the year - the tour has been winding down since even if Indian Wells was played. She had 1 big tournament to play after the USO and lost it, which is somewhat understandable given her whirlwind experience post-USO. I honestly don't see the point in predictions/assessments with so few main draw appearances on the WTA Tour. Let's see where she is at after the AO swing, IW and Miami, then on the clay, then how she handles the home pressure of Wimbledon. Once she has played a full year on tour we will have a lot more to assess, including if she even wins another title in that time, and if so, at what level? Given Swiatek's season this year after her RG win, I feel a couple of major QFs would be a big achievement for Raducanu next year let alone actually making another F or winning one. For me I just want to see her match up against all of the top players.

 

[ttwreader]

Serena could have beaten herself. Could not stand 7 rounds physically.

 

[fed1]

Serena could have beaten herself. Could not stand 7 rounds physically.

Thank you !!! It would have gone like this this, 2.5 hours with Sorribes Tormo and then a withdrawal.

 

[MichaelNadal]

 

[R. Schweikart]

Serena is by far the GOAT even without number 24. As a modern day athlete she is just better than all the people who played before her.

Since the quality of the women's game in the 2010s was most probably the worst since the early 1960s Serena's 23 slams win in 79 attempts is not GOAT-worthy.
Plus her staggering 152 career losses contrasted to only 73 titles won don't even make her the greatest US player ever.

 

[Mark-Touch]

Why are we comparing these two? Williams is by far the most accomplished current women's player. Raducanu has just started. By any measure, Williams' current resume' will be much longer with many more highlights. But, no matter where Raducanu winds up in the pantheon of women's tennis, her resume' will always have one qualifying highlight neither Williams, nor any other all-time great, includes.

Yes and that qualifying highlight is the fantastic qualifying round that she had to go through before she could
enter the main draw!

 

[Headhunter_Tennis]

Since the quality of the women's game in the 2010s was most probably the worst since the early 1960s Serena's 23 slams win in 79 attempts is not GOAT-worthy.
Plus her staggering 152 career losses contrasted to only 73 titles won don't even make her the greatest US player ever.

Stats are stats
23 Slams stretched over 17 years make her the GOAT.
Her longevity is unparalleled, she is pure brute force.

 

[gadge]

Serena should’ve had the 24 by now. She should’ve won the 2019 USO, 2020 AO despite not being in best of shapes. After her return she lacked the confidence she had before and just didn’t show up to these big matches. So, no. If serena had Emma’s draw she’d have either lost to bencic or Fernandez but not because she isn’t good enough.

 

[Graf1stClass]

Ugh, Emma just starred playing professionally when she won 2021 U.S. Open 3-4 months as a Pro while just finished high school, took her exams for college too just before too. Come on, give her a break! She 18!

Would you spare me your crybaby act? I merely posed the question. Emma fanboys are irritating as ever.. I realize she had an amazing accomplishment and that she came from a disadvantaged position, and I was not making fun of her. She had a light draw, but she cannot help whom she plays against. This post is about how Serena would do...

 

[R. Schweikart]

Stats are stats
23 Slams stretched over 17 years make her the GOAT.
Her longevity is unparalleled, she is pure brute force.

23 slams in 12 years would have been more impressive.
Even 22 in 12 years would have been. Heck, even 20 in 10 years!

 

[Headhunter_Tennis]

23 slams in 12 years would have been more impressive.
Even 22 in 12 years would have been. Heck, even 20 in 10 years!

Nope
Slams won over a longer period of time means the player is not fluke, he is tried and tested

Slams won in heap always have some weak competition argument involved, biggest example is your avatar pic lady.

She won half of her slams because her main rival who was a teenager was stabbed by a lunatic and she was not allowed to have that sweet productive phase of her early 20s, those affecting her mid 20s as well and she was finished.

Winning Slams over a long period of time is always more impressive IMO

 

[Autodidactic player]

23 slams in 12 years would have been more impressive.
Even 22 in 12 years would have been. Heck, even 20 in 10 years!

Come on! 23 slams in a lifetime is damn impressive. Only one other person in all of tennis history has done that!

I can understand you arguing that someone else is the women's GOAT but suggesting that 23 slams is not impressive is just silly.

 

[thrust]

Serena has had "Emma's draw" for the last dozen years. She should have 34.

At least!

 

[Gonzo_style]

Yes

In sumo wrestling

 

[R. Schweikart]

Nope
Slams won over a longer period of time means the player is not fluke, he is tried and tested

Slams won in heap always have some weak competition argument involved, biggest example is your avatar pic lady.

She won half of her slams because her main rival who was a teenager was stabbed by a lunatic and she was not allowed to have that sweet productive phase of her early 20s, those affecting her mid 20s as well and she was finished.

Winning Slams over a long period of time is always more impressive IMO

Winning 8 slam finals against 3 of the 10 greatest players ever and is not weak competition.
However, winning 0 slam finals against any of the 10 greatest player ever but 13 against Sharapova, Azarenka, Safarova, Wozniacki, Kerber, Zvonreva, Jankovic, Safina, Radwanska, Muguruza is.

 

[R. Schweikart]

Come on! 23 slams in a lifetime is damn impressive. Only one other person in all of tennis history has done that!

I can understand you arguing that someone else is the women's GOAT but suggesting that 23 slams is not impressive is just silly.

I never said that.
23 slams in 17 years is indeed impressive.
But 22 slams in 12 years and 20 slams in 10 years is more impressive.
That is what I said.

 

[Headhunter_Tennis]

Winning 8 slam finals against 3 of the 10 greatest players ever and is not weak competition.
However, winning 0 slam finals against any of the 10 greatest player ever but 13 against Sharapova, Azarenka, Safarova, Wozniacki, Kerber, Zvonreva, Jankovic, Safina, Radwanska, Muguruza is.

Only truth of life ....

Stats without an Asterix of any event in life that might have caused your opposition to not compete is what matter

Djokovic and Serena Williams are the real, no amount of pointing towards competition will belittle them

Period

 

[Headhunter_Tennis]

Seles Stabbing will always be attached to Graf's feats, we cannot run away from it because Graf was struggling in those 3 years when teenager Seles was ruling, so conventional logic would suggest that without the stabbing the 19 yr old Seles would have won many slams more till 24-25 after which the William Sisters could possibly have taken over....Graf would have been on like 15-16 slams

In Serena's case no such hiccups, she bulldozed everyone in her path in the last 20 years, players competed vs her but her power was too much for them .....That is GOAT.

 

[Headhunter_Tennis]

Raducanu is a slam champion without a top 10 win in her career, that’s cringe. At least Ostapenko and Sloane both beat top 10 players for their slam. Raducanu is hailed as a next ATG and she had the easiest draw. No shame of course considering she can’t make the draw but she’s done nothing since.

Agreed
Raducanu has a lot to prove

Main challenge is always to win the second slam to prove that the first one is not fluke.

 

[R. Schweikart]

Only truth of life ....

Stats without an Asterix of any event in life that might have caused your opposition to not compete is what matter

Djokovic and Serena Williams are the real, no amount of pointing towards competition will belittle them

Period

Serena only started to win most of her slams after Henin retired due to burn-out and Venus went down due to her Sjögren's disease. And the 2010s is generally considered to be the weakest decade of the open era. So two asterisks.
Steffi profited a bit because Seles was out for about 2 years. But she played in the 1990s, the "Golden Age of Women's Tennis". So maybe a quarter of an asterisk.

 

[R. Schweikart]

Seles Stabbing will always be attached to Graf's feats, we cannot run away from it because Graf was struggling in those 3 years when teenager Seles was ruling, so conventional logic would suggest that without the stabbing the 19 yr old Seles would have won many slams more till 24-25 ...

Historical evidence contradicts you:
In the open era there were 8 other cases when a woman player won 5-8 slams within a period of 2.25 years (Seles won 7 from January 1991 to January 1993).
Guess how many slams these other greats won in the next 2.25 years after their great runs?
Exactly 1.5 slams.

So you claim that Seles "would" have won many slams more if it weren't for the stabbing is a non sequitur.
And I am not even factoring in that Seles would have had to compete against the GOAT coming out of her early-90s slump.

Give it a rest.
No US player is the GOAT.
You will have to wait another generation. Or two.

 

[Autodidactic player]

I never said that.
23 slams in 17 years is indeed impressive.
But 22 slams in 12 years and 20 slams in 10 years is more impressive.
That is what I said.

I see. Sorry for the confusion. My competitive tennis experience, ranked junior and college scholarship player, has convinced me that simply qualifying to play in the main draw of any tennis major is impressive. The accomplishments of Graf, Williams, Evert, Navratilova, even Court, are so far beyond my personal ability that quibbling about which is most impressive sometimes strikes me as silly.

 

[R. Schweikart]

Agreed
Raducanu has a lot to prove

Main challenge is always to win the second slam to prove that the first one is not fluke.

There are many players who won only one slam that weren't "flukes".

 

[goldengate14]

She'd have 24 if she hadn't gotten preggers

Or if she kept in shape. She is at least 10kg over her fightin weight. Cannot win slams that out of shape. Jack Sock a good example.

 

[Headhunter_Tennis]

90s being the golden age is being marketed by oldists who want to show that the world is moving backwards, like all the gods who fought amongst each other and killed themselves and left the earth to the mortals...

But then, the truth is the players of the 2000s and especially the 2010s would beat the players of the 80d and 90s black and blue. Look at the videos of the 90s, players were so slow and when balls came at them they at times did not even try.

A lot of the balls that went past the receiver in the 90s would all be returned by the modern day players ... 90s was no golden era ....It was the era of servebots and the servebot with some net skills won most slams, the modern day hunters would thrash the 90s players

 

[Headhunter_Tennis]

Historical evidence contradicts you:
In the open era there were 8 other cases when a woman player won 5-8 slams within a period of 2.25 years (Seles won 7 from January 1991 to January 1993).
Guess how many slams these other greats won in the next 2.25 years after their great runs?
Exactly 1.5 slams.

So you claim that Seles "would" have won many slams more if it weren't for the stabbing is a non sequitur.
And I am not even factoring in that Seles would have had to compete against the GOAT coming out of her early-90s slump.

Give it a rest.
No US player is the GOAT.
You will have to wait another generation. Or two.

Serena and Navratilova are the GOATs ahead of Steffi and Peak Chris Evert is the most beautiful GOAT Candidate and also the most beautiful ATG with more than 5 Slams, these are facts (without Asterix) that won't change, good luck convincing majority

Plus it is a bit naive to even think that Seles's great run was over at 19, her real great run was gonna be from 19-25 when he she would have crossed 20 slams overall. That was taken from her....her real peak audience never witnessed

A great loss for Tennis

 

[R. Schweikart]

90s being the golden age is being marketed by oldists who want to show that the world is moving backwards, like all the gods who fought amongst each other and killed themselves and left the earth to the mortals...

But then, the truth is the players of the 2000s and especially the 2010s would beat the players of the 80d and 90s black and blue. Look at the videos of the 90s, players were so slow and when balls came at them they at times did not even try.

A lot of the balls that went past the receiver in the 90s would all be returned by the modern day players ... 90s was no golden era ....It was the era of servebots abd the servebot with some net skills won most slams, the modern day hunters would thrash the 90s players

My God, you are so easy to refute that it almost is no fun anymore....

1) No decade had more all-time greatest slam finals than the 1990s:
Graf-Sabatini, Wimbledon 91: 6-4 3-6 8-6
Seles-Graf, FO 92: 6-2 3-6 10-8
Graf-Sanchez, Wimbledon 95: 4-6 6-1 7-5
Graf-Seles, USO 95: 7-6 0-6 6-3
Graf-Sanchez, FO 96: 6-3 6-7 10-8
Graf-Hingis, FO 99: 4-6 7-5 6-2
Great quality, drama, great personalities! The "Golden Age" indeed.

What about the 2010s? Where are your all-time classic slam finals of that decade?


2) The 2010s players would beat the players of the 1990s black and blue?

Ever heard of Kimiko Date?
Kimiko was a regular top 10 player in the first half of the 1990s but never made a slam final. A classic "pusher". She retired in 1996.
But she returned to the tour at the end of the 2000s and in 2010-14 - being in her early 40s! - beat among others Sharapova, Li, Stosur, Muguruza, Pennetta. Those 5 players won slams in 2011-2016...

 

[R. Schweikart]

Serena and Navratilova are the GOATs ahead of Steffi and Peak Chris Evert is the most beautiful GOAT Candidate and also the most beautiful ATG with more than 5 Slams, these are facts (without Asterix) that won't change, good luck convincing majority
...

Tennis fans all over the world don't agree with you. Steffi generally wins all the GOAT polls. Serena wins very few but only because of "present time bias". Navratilova isn't even mentioned anymore in these polls.

And 95 % (98 % without counting US fans) agree that Steffi is the most beautiful ATG. Well ahead of the homely Chris Evert. Here is Steffi at age 50: