Would you default a match due to the part of town it was in?

[arche3]

Definitive evidence that you are a tool...

He is like the valet that parks my Phantom and pretends he is the owner of the casino he works at as he goes for a joy ride around the block.

 

[Aurellian]

Definitive evidence that you are a tool...

A tool because I prefer to be in the presence of other learned men or folks that share my political values? Then I am the biggest tool in the shed.

Back to the point, one can play wherever one wants but should forfeit if they don't find the previously agreed upon courts suitable for whatever reason--too ghetto, too haughty, too far, too unkempt.

 

[Aurellian]

He is like the valet that parks my Phantom and pretends he is the owner of the casino he works at as he goes for a joy ride around the block.

I actually worked as valet in boulder when I was 16...cool job....what is a Phantom?

 

[spot]

Back to the point, one can play wherever one wants but should forfeit if they don't find the previously agreed upon courts

Once again the point is going over your head. The courts were never agreed upon.

 

[goober]

First, I am not the team captain and my understanding of the situation is both second hand and limited, but here is the gist of it:

Our mixed team, which I just recently joined, was supposed to have a makeup match today, after a match a couple weeks ago was rained out. The two captains agreed upon the makeup time (today at 5pm). After this, our captain found out that our normal home courts were not available at this time. He proceeded to book some other courts, which are actually closer to the other team, and informed the other captain.

This other captain said she did not wish to play at these courts at this time. When asked for a reason, she declined to give one. After some back and forth, my captain decided that there was no reason to put in even more work, and said that we would be at those courts at 5pm. 5pm came and went, and the other team did not show up. My captain said he intends to put it in tennis link as a triple default.


The unspoken subtext (at least according to me, but it seems pretty clear) is that these courts are in, or at least very near, *that* part of town. I don't know that this is the reason but its the only thing that really makes sense. The courts are actually on the campus of a public university. The courts themselves are in pristine condition, and afaik the campus is actually quite safe statistically speaking (the campus having it's own police presence), although admittedly the same can't be said for some areas of town not far from campus.

So what say you? Was my captain unreasonable or warranted in his decisions? What about the opposing captain? Should the opposing team be defaulted for the whole match? Would you consider a purposeful default like this based on a refusal to enter a particular part of town?

I assumed your captain discussed this with the LC before just going out there and then issuing a default?

 

[goober]

This is simple. your captain can not just take it upon himself to change the venue. It doesn't matter how good the courts are, how close it is to your opponents, or anything.

If your captain can not schedule courts at your designated "home courts" he can ask to play at the opponents courts, or discuss playing at an altogether different site. But he has no right to force the other team to come to anywhere other than the facility registered for your team.

Things may vary by section, but I know teams that have changed their home courts without opponents approval. As long as you get the OK from the LC, there is nothing the other teams can do about it. This has happened several times to me. One time a tournament was being held at the regular home courts of a team and we got an email from the LC saying that the home team moved the match to another facility. We were never asked even though the location was further away. Another time half way through the season, a team moved their remaining home matches to a different location. They didn't bother telling us till match day. But it is not like we could have refused to play at the new location.

 

[arche3]

I actually worked as valet in boulder when I was 16...cool job....what is a Phantom?

Your in vegas and you dont know? I thought you were a balla.

 

[tennis tom]

A tool because I prefer to be in the presence of other learned men or folks that share my political values? Then I am the biggest tool in the shed.

Just for grins, since you brought up the subject of politics, which political party do you belong, to since it's incomprehensible from your posts?

 

[Overdrive]

Just for grins, since you brought up the subject of politics, which political party do you belong, to since it's incomprehensible from your posts?

Don't ask that. DD and the TW Admins are against threads that contain politics.

 

[dcdoorknob]

I assumed your captain discussed this with the LC before just going out there and then issuing a default?

Default has not been issued. Either he was only talking about the default in frustration and did not pursue it, or he did pursue it and was not allowed to enter it.

Only seen captain once since Sunday and he was leaving the courts as I was arriving so don't know anything more yet.

 

[Aurellian]

Once again the point is going over your head. The courts were never agreed upon.

I am just responding to what I want to.. .by the second page the original intent is long gone...duh...

 

[Aurellian]

Your in vegas and you dont know? I thought you were a balla.

A rather sheltered one I must profess...I have only been back in the country for 6 months...that being said, I find the most interesting tennis being played at equity country clubs and in the hood. I play exclusively--except when in Vegas as there are no real CCs here--at the aforementioned--as the difference in styles makes for a well rounded game....now I must excuse myself, I have a flight to catch and don't like intruding on other people's threads...

 

[arche3]

A rather sheltered one I must profess...I have only been back in the country for 6 months...that being said, I find the most interesting tennis being played at equity country clubs and in the hood. I play exclusively--except when in Vegas as there are no real CCs here--at the aforementioned--as the difference in styles makes for a well rounded game....now I must excuse myself, I have a flight to catch and don't like intruding on other people's threads...

A phantom is a rolls royce sedan. At my country club there are 4. Mine. And 3 others. What sort of country club doesnt have a couple phantoms? Lol.

 

[Aurellian]

A phantom is a rolls royce sedan. At my country club there are 4. Mine. And 3 others. What sort of country club doesnt have a couple phantoms? Lol.

Thanks...sounds like an old man car to me... I don't ball that hard...I still need to share bottles at Encore and use AA EVPs to avoid sitting in cargo when traveling abroad...the CCs in vegas are fake like the rest of the city....they are not equity, require no screening, and can be obtained--a sport membership, or a Jr Executive Membership in my case--for 350 or so each month.


I'm not top 2% like you are...just a self-made 6% er....I hope by the time I am 35 I will be 5% though.

 

[goober]

Default has not been issued. Either he was only talking about the default in frustration and did not pursue it, or he did pursue it and was not allowed to enter it.

Only seen captain once since Sunday and he was leaving the courts as I was arriving so don't know anything more yet.

Well what your captain did doesn't make any sense. I would not drag my team to a set of courts based on the info you provided. The only way I would go there is if the LC approved the court change and the other captain was aware if they didn't show up they would be defaulted. Once the opposing captain said their team was not showing up the course of action should have been to negotiate a different location OR get the LC to approve the location you chose as the make up match site and have the LC contact the opposing captain of the change. In my experience once a LC declares that a certain match is going to be played somewhere- whether it is a playoff or makeup match it won't be changed.

 

[Raul_SJ]

The home captain should accommodate if the visitors feel unsafe at the alternate venue.

That said, I think the visitors are overreacting.

I have played in Oakland and East Palo Alto and have never come across a court that is unsafe during the daytime.

 

[storypeddler]

I'm with OrangePower.

I would not appreciate a captain who sent me out to play a rescheduled match without an understanding that the other team would be there. Captain sounds very confrontational and immature.

Unless there is a specific rule governing this sort of thing, you have to use common sense. If the other team doesn't like the courts for any reason (condition, lighting, surface, neighborhood), then you don't have an agreement to play there.

Unless your captain has a very, very good email chain with some very good facts, I think he is being unreasonable and will not win a grievance.

FWIW, I am not a country club gal, and I play on public courts. If someone objected to a location based on fear of personal safety, however, I would respect that. Just because I drive a beat-up car no one would want to steal does not mean other folks might not have legitimate concerns about the safety of their person or their property.

The rules governing situations like this and how those rules are enforced vary from league to league, area to area, and district to district. There is no single hard and fast rule that can be applied across the board. My argument was that if the opposing team did not feel safe playing at the proposed site, why didn't they simply say that and see what other arrangements could be worked out? I don't know what their reasons were. They never said. But if we are going to take the position that racism and classism don't exist in tennis leagues...please.

 

[storypeddler]

I don't think you understand the situation being discussed. This isn't about a team refusing to play at someone's home facility. This is about a team declining to play at a completely separate location picked by the OP's captain. That changes it significantly.

If you don't want to play at another team's home facility then tell that to your captain and have them play someone else. But if another team's home facility isn't available and they pick a place that isn't suitable for you for any reason then I think you would be completely justified in declining to play there.

Interestingly, this hosting captain and the players on his team apparently didn't have any issues with the relative safety of the proposed courts. They were willing to play there and didn't feel threatened. That sure seems to raise some questions about just whether any danger actually existed there---or if that was simply a smokescreen for what actually was going on here.

 

[Big_Dangerous]

I have a friend that plays baseball with the inmates there. I guess it is some sort of program for good behavior. He tells me those inmates can play some ball. lol.

Lol just reminds me of that scene from Training Day right towards the end. "You mother effers are gonna be playing basketball in Pelican Bay, when I get through with you!"