Your top 10 ATP servers of all time
- Thread starter King No1e
- Start date
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
He's one of the best servers of all time but served very average when he was leading 40-15. He should have gone for the kill.
Olli Jokinen
Hall of Fame
Milan Srejber. Anyone remember him?
Probably been the Achilles heel of his career. Playing, conservative, safe by the percentages when it counts the most. Similar to his mentality on BPs.
Beckerserve
Legend
Becker had the best ever flat serve. Ask Agassi and Sampras bud. Yes guys did hit bigger serves eventually in 90s although NOT Sampras but that Becker flat serve was unplayable on fast courts due to his grip.
What he did not have as good as Sampras and Goran and Stich and McEnroe was the slice serve again due to his grip.
Beckerserve
Legend
Is that why they have such stellar careers bud?
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
They have a million flaws in their games.
The ability to ace their way out of break points is not one of them.
Beckerserve
Legend
They rarely ace out of trouble.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
At this point NonP is the expert authority on all things servebot. That's a lot of work you've done over the years crunching the numbers!I know it's a complete waste of time trying to educate most of these jokers, but for the remaining few who actually care to learn:
OE #1 is indeed Pistol. The likes of Karlovic, Isner, Raonic and Kyrgios might be more dangerous day to day, and even as a fan I'd long resisted putting Pete atop Ivo and Goran, but what matters is whether you can bring your best against the strongest competition and that's where Sampras towers over the rest. Actually forget about Sampras, Goran at '01 Wimbledon aced his opponents more than Ivo or Isner in their own '15/'18 Wimby runs through corresponding rounds.
Three more things you likely aren't very familiar with:
1) Contrary to received wisdom re: surface "slowdown" service stats across the board have been creeping up, thanks to the extra spin made possible by today's more powerful racquets. That's why, among other things, you don't see many top players average less than 60% on 1st serves these days, whereas the opposite held true in the '90s.
2) Aces are nice but a more accurate barometer of serving prowess is % of serves that aren't returned by the opponent, and while the two stats generally go hand in hand Sampras (or Roddick for that matter) got an unusually higher proportion of the latter than most servers. In fact he had a whopping 50.8% of his serves unreturned in his seven Wimbledon finals, when even a Karlovic, Isner or Raonic often fails to clear the 50% mark on grass in non-pressure situations. Suffice it to say it's unlikely any of these servebots matches Pete's % across 7 Wimby finals vs. comparable opponents.
3) The ATP counted aces and DFs twice for most GS matches of the '90s, which has led to some of you regurgitating the howler that Pete friggin' Sampras won a lesser % of 2nd-serve points than the likes of (just to name a few) Delpo, Nishi, Thiem, Gasquet, Coric, Millman, Sock and Monaco. Fortunately a brave soul in @slice serve ace has completed the herculean task of (mostly) correcting the %s for the top '90s guys:
2nd serve pts won for 1992-1999 - corrected stats
those not familliar with the issue can read through this thread http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=207411 and this grand slam matches on atp site, for whatever reason, counted aces and double faults twice from 1992 untill US Open 1999...from that tournament on stats are...tt.tennis-warehouse.com
And that's despite Pistol S&Ving on a lot more 2nd serves than any baseliner then and now which almost certainly brought down his average. In short there's no one since Newcombe whose 2nd serve was anywhere near the same weapon as Pistol's. (And before you say Isner, check out his SF vs. Anderson and then try to tell me with a straight face Pete wouldn't have done more damage with his own 2nd serve.)
More in-depth (linked) explanations in the OP here:
Greatest Serves of All Time
I've noticed that among the zillion GOAT threads in this forum there isn't a single comprehensive one ranking the greatest serves ever (for real), and since the serve is this sport's one shot that's least affected by outside variables (including racquets and strings) I've decided to create a new...
Any of these guys could outserve another on a given day and the list is a perpetual work in progress, but it's definitely a whole lot better than the ATP's bogus "Serve Rating" most of you take as gospel. I suggest you check out some of my dissertations in that OP if you really care to find out more.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
"You should have gone for the line"He's one of the best servers of all time but served very average when he was leading 40-15. He should have gone for the kill.
*Rips CC passing shot to save MP*
T
TheNachoMan
Guest
He should’ve treated his second serve like another first serve. Miss it? No matter, you have 2 more first serves until deuce.He's one of the best servers of all time but served very average when he was leading 40-15. He should have gone for the kill.
MeatTornado
Talk Tennis Guru
I think devoting your life to the history of the manila envelope would be more exciting work than learning the ways of the servebot.
Cashman
Hall of Fame
Great post. #1 in particular is a point that is often overlooked.I know it's a complete waste of time trying to educate most of these jokers, but for the remaining few who actually care to learn:
OE #1 is indeed Pistol. The likes of Karlovic, Isner, Raonic and Kyrgios might be more dangerous day to day, and even as a fan I'd long resisted putting Pete atop Ivo and Goran, but what matters is whether you can bring your best against the strongest competition and that's where Sampras towers over the rest. Actually forget about Sampras, Goran at '01 Wimbledon aced his opponents more than Ivo or Isner in their own '15/'18 Wimby runs through corresponding rounds.
Three more things you likely aren't very familiar with:
1) Contrary to received wisdom re: surface "slowdown" service stats across the board have been creeping up, thanks to the extra spin made possible by today's more powerful racquets. That's why, among other things, you don't see many top players average less than 60% on 1st serves these days, whereas the opposite held true in the '90s.
2) Aces are nice but a more accurate barometer of serving prowess is % of serves that aren't returned by the opponent, and while the two stats generally go hand in hand Sampras (or Roddick for that matter) got an unusually higher proportion of the latter than most servers. In fact he had a whopping 50.8% of his serves unreturned in his seven Wimbledon finals, when even a Karlovic, Isner or Raonic often fails to clear the 50% mark on grass in non-pressure situations. Suffice it to say it's unlikely any of these servebots matches Pete's % across 7 Wimby finals vs. comparable opponents.
3) The ATP counted aces and DFs twice for most GS matches of the '90s, which has led to some of you regurgitating the howler that Pete friggin' Sampras won a lesser % of 2nd-serve points than the likes of (just to name a few) Delpo, Nishi, Thiem, Gasquet, Coric, Millman, Sock and Monaco. Fortunately a brave soul in @slice serve ace has completed the herculean task of (mostly) correcting the %s for the top '90s guys:
2nd serve pts won for 1992-1999 - corrected stats
those not familliar with the issue can read through this thread http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=207411 and this grand slam matches on atp site, for whatever reason, counted aces and double faults twice from 1992 untill US Open 1999...from that tournament on stats are...
And that's despite Pistol S&Ving on a lot more 2nd serves than any baseliner then and now which almost certainly brought down his average. In short there's no one since Newcombe whose 2nd serve was anywhere near the same weapon as Pistol's. (And before you say Isner, check out his SF vs. Anderson and then try to tell me with a straight face Pete wouldn't have done more damage with his own 2nd serve.)
More in-depth (linked) explanations in the OP here:
Greatest Serves of All Time
I've noticed that among the zillion GOAT threads in this forum there isn't a single comprehensive one ranking the greatest serves ever (for real), and since the serve is this sport's one shot that's least affected by outside variables (including racquets and strings) I've decided to create a new...
Any of these guys could outserve another on a given day and the list is a perpetual work in progress, but it's definitely a whole lot better than the ATP's bogus "Serve Rating" most of you take as gospel. I suggest you check out some of my dissertations in that OP if you really care to find out more.
Regarding #2 I would not only agree, but go further and say that drawing the weak off-centre return was almost as important as hitting unreturned serves - especially in the 90s and before, when sweet spots were small and S&V was king. Guys like Rafter and Edberg may have had a modest record of aces and unreturnables, but their ability to consistently prevent their opponent from hitting clean returns meant that they were amongst the most effective servers in the game.
Pete was also very good at it, which is in no small part why his second serve was one of the greatest.
fundrazer
G.O.A.T.
Relatively quick and simple motion and he could place the ball anywhere in the service box. It's one of my favorites next to Krajicek's. Only wish I could serve even half as well.
Agassi was guessing a lot here, but he was getting bombarded by huge serves into all 4 corners.
