Vilas should indeed be recognised as world No 1.
Then Murray can officially claim he is the best never to have reached that position.
The problem is that it isnt a common consensus Vilas was #1 for 77 at all. The computer points say Connors, and most of the official experts say Borg. There are some good arguments for Vilas, and if forced to pick he would probably be my #1 for that year, but it isnt a clear cut thing at all. Certainly not something you can expect to win a court case over, LOL! IMO he honestly needs to let it go already, he looks more bitter about not being credited for the #1 ranking of 1977 than I am about Boston Rob voting me off on my season of Survivor, and it is 40 years later, not just 5.
Th question is not about 1977 but about 1975. Vilas was the real world champion in 1977, but not number 1 in ATP ranking. In 1975, he was.
Vilas has never officially been ranked number #1.
Shame ATP .That's why there is a trial. Because in fact, he was the number one in 1975.
Vilas has never officially been ranked number #1.
The problem is that it isnt a common consensus Vilas was #1 for 77 at all. The computer points say Connors, and most of the official experts say Borg. There are some good arguments for Vilas, and if forced to pick he would probably be my #1 for that year, but it isnt a clear cut thing at all. Certainly not something you can expect to win a court case over, LOL! IMO he honestly needs to let it go already, he looks more bitter about not being credited for the #1 ranking of 1977 than I am about Boston Rob voting me off on my season of Survivor, and it is 40 years later, not just 5.
The main problem as I see it is that you are taking away weeks from Connors and he cannot do anything about it. If he had know he wasn't the real number 1 for a period in 1975 he may have chosen to play more tournaments to keep/regain his position. I'd guess Connors could have some sort of legal claim if he had weeks removed from his number 1 tally.
If Vilas succeeds it will mean a reduction in Connors weeks at number 1 - it has to. Connors is currently credited with number 1 for ALL of the weeks from 29 July 1974 to 22 August 1977. If Vilas takes some of those weeks, then it logically follows that Connors number of weeks at number 1 drops.No problem for Connors. The point is that ATP ranking was not published during a few weeks, and, these weeks, Vilas was the number 1. Nothing changes for the weeks when Connors was number 1.
If Vilas succeeds it will mean a reduction in Connors weeks at number 1 - it has to. Connors is currently credited with number 1 for ALL of the weeks from 29 July 1974 to 22 August 1977. If Vilas takes some of those weeks, then it logically follows that Connors number of weeks at number 1 drops.
What you claim is true .The ranking system was so complex back then; and the ATP ranking has les prestige than in the actuality. Although ome newpapers showed when there were updates in the rankings; maybe the rankings made by specialist were more importants; and the ending year ranking was the more important(considering ATP ranking and others) Also the ATP rankings exited more to create the seeds than to determinate who was the best player, the second best and so one. Then, I don´t think Vilas or Connors had much idea about what they had to do to be number one. Connors decided to play some tournaments at the beginning of 1975 that didn´t gave many points and lost some in the first rounds, while Vilas was not playing and then he played some tournaments that gave a lot of points previous to the US Open with success, while Connors was not playing. Vilas reached the final of the French Open, which Connors didn´t play. Connors reached the final of the Australian Open but it gaved lesser points than the other three Slams. That´s why Vilas average was better at some point after the US Open and probably neither Vilas or Connors suspected it, maybe they didn´t care because the ending-year ranking was more important. But if Vilas shouldhave appeared as number one in in new published rankings in that moment, then the ATP had a mistake. And that´s the part of the rule-books that´s is not very clear to me. Did they had to update the rankings when there was a change? With wich freqency they had to update the rankings? Apparently the answer of the ATP, which don´t question the results of the invetigation is "We don´t know" Then I think it´s ok it goes to a trial.
I found the rulebooks said:
"Separate singles and doubles rankings are calculated EVERY week in the ATP world headquarters in Dallas, Texas"
What you claim is true .
The rankings were made every week . It's clear that in some periods were not published because the tennis had not yet followed by the media as in 2016 , but it 's absurd to be missing just the 6 or 7 weeks where Vilas exceeded Connors . Absurd.
The problems are two :
1 ) the ranking ATP had a series of defects
2 ) the ranking ATP of 1975 may be obtained, then Vilas is number one for a few weeks .
The Chapter 1 ) is interesting but it is not the subject of the thread.
Vilas , despite not having a sensational year (unlike in 1977) at some point is rightly in front of everyone because :
1 ) has many placings
2 ) Connors wins tournaments that give a few points and lost always important finals ( W , USO , Stockholm , Dewar Cup )
3 ) the real opponents are Ashe and Orantes despite playing well but do not have an exciting year and lose many matches .
Thus the ranking is short and shrunken and Vilas is first .
In other words , we are not arguing about who was the best in 1975 ( presumably Connors but did not show it ) or who should be number one ( Ashe and Orantes ) but that Vilas was number one for several weeks .
VILAS 'WAS NUMBER ONE .
Yes he was (see the first of the links below). It was not published every week back then, as you say, but Connors was the only one credited with number 1 at that time. Hence, the ATP has ascribed him as being number 1 for all of those weeks in a row. Vilas' case is that for some weeks of 1975 and early 1976 - if the ranking had been published everyweek - then Connors streak on the ranking would have been broken then. I confess to being on Vilas' side. A player shouldn't lose credit for being number 1 just because the ATP couldn't produce the rankings every week and therefore missed them out.Are you sure that Connors is credited for all these weeks ? It's absurd, because ATP ranking was not published every week !
As you can read in previous posts there are of Guillermo passing data.The same ranking system that we would call "unfair" that didn´t help Vilas in 1977; apparently helped him in 1975. What an irony.
I always had the idea that his results of moments of 1974 and 1975 seems better than in 1977, in part. He won a Tennis Masters Cup in grass in 1974, he reached the quarterfinals in Wimbledon in 1975(also in 1976); which he didn´t do in 1977; he beat Borg in the Masters 1975. He reached the final of the WTC in 1976 playing an interesting match against Borg in a fat surface. Between 1974 and 1976 he had better results in Rome than in 1977...just he had to lost in a second round in 1977! All his other participations before and after that year were excellents. It´s amazing. I read it was raining that day he lost in Rome in 1977 and he said that affected his game. He then reached the final in 1979, and won in 1981.
Vilas World Number One.
I think it is interesting to note that:I found an article that explains the moment when Vilas overtake Connors in 1975 .
I insert it , then the next day maybe I put it in order .
Septiembre 16, 1975 (ufficial)
Jimmy Connors – 832 – 18 torneos – 46,222 promedio
Guillermo Vilas – 927 – 21 torneos – 44,143 promedio
Ma questi valori non sono corretti. Ecco le correzioni dopo l’analisi di 12.000 risultati incrociati. Septiembre 16, 1975 (ERRORES CORRETTI):
Jimmy Connors – 812 – 18 – 45,111
Guillermo Vilas – 929 – 21 – 44,238
La continuità del ranking settimanale – non pubblicato da l’Atp dopo il 16 settembre è il seguente: Septiembre 22, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO)
Guillermo Vilas – 929 – 21 – 44,2382.
Jimmy Connors – 772 – 18 – 42,889
Guillermo Vilas conquista il n.1 perchè Jimmy Connors perde 82 punti di Los Angeles 1974 (categoría C, campeón) e ottiene 40 punti per vincere un torneo in Bermude 1975 (categoría E) con 2 punti di bonus.
Connors: 812 – 82 + 42 = 772 / 18 = 42,889 di media, più bassa che quella di Vilas, che non cambia il totale dei suoi punti.
Septiembre 29, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 991 – 22 – 45,0452
Jimmy Connors – 750 – 17 – 44,118
Vilas rimane come Nº 1 per aver ottenuto 60 punti nella finale di San Francisco 1975 (categoría C) con 2 punti di buono.
Vilas: 929 + 62 = 991 / 22 = 45,045
Connors perde 22 punti di quarti a San Francisco 1974 (categoría C).
Connors: 772 – 22 = 750 / 17 = 44,118
Ottobre 6, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 991 – 22 – 45,0452
Jimmy Connors – 790 – 18 – 43,889
Vilas rimane Nº 1 con lo stesso punteggio.
Connors guadagna 40 puntis perchè vince a Maui 1975 (categoría E).
Connors: 750 + 40 = 790 / 18 = 43,88
Ottobre 13, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 972 – 22 – 44,1822
Jimmy Connors – 790 – 18 – 43,88
Vilas retsa n. 1 dopo aver perso 34 punti delle semifinali di Madrid 1974 (categoría D) e guadagna 15 punti per i quarti di final a Madrid 1975 (categoría D)
Vilas: 991 – 34 + 15 = 972 / 22 = 44,182
Connors è Nº 2 con 43,88
Ottobre 20, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 997 – 22 – 45,3182
Jimmy Connors – 790 – 18 – 43,889
Vilas mantiene il Nº 1 dopo che cede 7 punti per il R16 di Barcelona 1974 (categoría D) e ottiene 30 punti per la semifinale di Barcelona 1975 (categoría D) con 2 punti di bonus.
Vilas: 972 – 7 + 32 = 997 / 22 = 45,318
Connors nº 2 con 43,889
Ottobre 27, 1975 (NO PUBLICADO):
Jimmy Connors – 790 – 18 – 43,8892.
Guillermo Vilas – 955 – 22 – 43,409
Connors torna nº 1 con 43,889 de promedio después de que Vilas deja caer 82 puntos por su victoria en Teherán 1974 (categoría C) y adosar 40 puntos por las semifinales de Teherán 1975 (categoría C).
Vilas: 997 – 82 + 40 = 955 / 22 = 43,40
Aunque los puntos no sean equivalentes, se puede regresar a partir de aquí a las clasificaciones oficiales, que fueron publicadas sólo dos días más ****e y que no tienen las correcciones de errores en cuenta. Aparecen de esta forma:
Octubre 29, 1975 (OFICIAL):
Jimmy Connors – 810 – 18 – 45,0002.
Guillermo Vilas – 968 – 22 – 44,000
Sólo en este escenario es necesario pasar al 5 de enero de 1976, debido a que allí se produce otro cambio en la posición de Nº 1 mundial. Antes, estos son los valores del 15 de diciembre de 1975, la clasificación final oficial de 1975:
Diciembre 15, 1975 (OFICIAL):
Jimmy Connors – 769 – 18 – 42,7222
Guillermo Vilas – 893 – 21 – 42,523
Otra vez, desde aquí, se aplican correcciones de errores a esos valores y se obtiene lo siguiente:
Diciembre 15, 1975 (ERRORES CORREGIDOS):
Jimmy Connors – 771 – 18 – 42,8332
Guillermo Vilas – 897 – 21 – 42,714
El 5 de enero de 1976 se abandonan los valores del Abierto de Australia 1975. El torneo era categoría D y Connors había sido finalista en 1975, por lo tanto, pierde 45 puntos.
Los resultados permanecen igual el 12 de enero, porque ningún torneo se resta o suma para cualquiera de los dos jugadores.
Enero 5, 1976 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 897 – 22 – 42,7142.
Jimmy Connors – 726 – 17 – 42,706
Enero 12, 1976 (NO PUBLICADO):
Guillermo Vilas – 897 – 22 – 42,7142.
Jimmy Connors – 726 – 17 – 42,706
El 19 de enero Connors deja caer los 20 puntos que ganó en Bahamas 1975 (torneo organizado por la IPA, categoría F) y recobra el Nº 1. A partir de ese momento lo mantiene el resto de 1976 hasta agosto de 1977:
Enero 19, 1976 (NO PUBLICADO):
Jimmy Connors – 706 – 16 – 44,1252.
Guillermo Vilas – 897 – 22 – 42,714
Vegito , are in contact with Vilas or Puppo ?There is a positive aspect. If they recognize to Vilas his number one they would not be changing the 1975 ATP ending year number one, which maybe is important for Connors and he would complain if they do that...also they will not have to change a name in the big trophy they give to the ending year number one every year since 2010(after they changed the classic trophy with form of number one)
Vegito , are in contact with Vilas or Puppo ?
Vegito , your thinking about seven weeks to be attributed correctly to Vilas .. is my thought .No, I´m just guessing! I mean Vilas can claim those 5 weeks of 1975 and 2 of 1976 but not the ending number one of 1975; it´s just what the investigation says. And I´m guessing it would bother Connors more if he lost the ending year number one of 1975 than if he loses some weeks of september and october.
Vegito , your thinking about seven weeks to be attributed correctly to Vilas .. is my thought .
As write that would not cause large gaps for Jimbo ... is my thought .
I just wanted to know if you were in contact with Vilas and Puppo ... because I asked you how I could find them.
Is it really going to make a difference ?
It won't financially ... Is it just to say "I was once world number 1" for a period .. I admit I didn't read all the posts so maybe I'm missing something
Do you want to ask them some questions?Ok. Try with the following directions! I contacted Puppo once via mail to buy the book of the History of Tennis in Argentina, there was an e-mail I think in the site of the book; I don´t see the mail there anymore; I don´t know if he uses still that mail and I don´t remember it because I deleted the messages; but in the site of the book you have the way to contact him via Twitter, Facebook, etc; he many times answer, I think specially in Twitter(he answered me a question once), here the social networks of Puppo:
https://www.instagram.com/epuppo/
https://twitter.com/puppotenis
https://www.facebook.com/eduardo.puppo.3
In the case of Vilas, he have a Twitter; he almost never answer; I think he have answered to some journalist; and in his Twitter account he mentions a Facebook site:
https://twitter.com/guillevilasok
https://www.facebook.com/Guillermo-Vilas-27835142123/
Do you want to ask them some questions?
In tennis have not happened blatant injustice in the course of the last century , no theft or robberies various titles as happened in other sports .Ok. Try with the following directions! I contacted Puppo once via mail to buy the book of the History of Tennis in Argentina, there was an e-mail I think in the site of the book; I don´t see the mail there anymore; I don´t know if he uses still that mail and I don´t remember it because I deleted the messages; but in the site of the book you have the way to contact him via Twitter, Facebook, etc; he many times answer, I think specially in Twitter(he answered me a question once), here the social networks of Puppo:
https://www.instagram.com/epuppo/
https://twitter.com/puppotenis
https://www.facebook.com/eduardo.puppo.3
In the case of Vilas, he have a Twitter; he almost never answer; I think he have answered to some journalist; and in his Twitter account he mentions a Facebook site:
https://twitter.com/guillevilasok
https://www.facebook.com/Guillermo-Vilas-27835142123/
Do you want to ask them some questions?
Since the rankings weren't published every week in the period Aug-73 to Dec-79 - was there any other player affected other than Vilas? My suspicion is that Borg would probably get more weeks at number 1 if a review of the rankings on a weekly basis was done for that period. Any other players affected?
Since the rankings weren't published every week in the period Aug-73 to Dec-79 - was there any other player affected other than Vilas? My suspicion is that Borg would probably get more weeks at number 1 if a review of the rankings on a weekly basis was done for that period. Any other players affected?
Slasher .. something: you know NoMercy ?Hello. Yes other players were affected. There were no new players at number 1 besides Vilas, but Newcombe got 5 weeks instead of 8 in 1974 (in favor of Connors) and Borg got 2 weeks instead of 1 in 1977 (from Connors).
Hello. Yes other players were affected. There were no new players at number 1 besides Vilas, but Newcombe got 5 weeks instead of 8 in 1974 (in favor of Connors) and Borg got 2 weeks instead of 1 in 1977 (from Connors).
Vegito you let me to intervene? what public EL MUNDO DEPORTIVO ( newspaper beautiful and reliable Spanish) through HEMEROTECA is the ranking of 31.12.1975 and is correct .Slasher. You say the rankings were not published in any of the weeks in which Vilas was number one? Maybe this newspaper was wrong, but just in case; if it would be useful for the trial.
This article-archive of a newspaper-in spanish talks about the ATP ranking of the second week of 1976; the article is from Sunday January 11, 1976 and says the ranking was published that day by the ATP. It says the average of Connors was 42,72 and the average of Vilas 42,52. Maybe that day the ATP published the rankings of December 1975 or the newspaper had a mistake or published the information late; although I´m sure I read an article of December 1975 in which they were already mentioning the ending-year ranking-I don´t find that article now, maybe it was in another newspaper- The title in spanish of this article says "Connors remains the number one." In the case that ATP published that day the rankings of Sunday January 11, or even if they published that day the rankings of 1975; then it´s a good argument to say they were showing Connors as number one in the moment in which Vilas was the number one!! All this in the case that it´s not a big mistake of the newspaper.
http://hemeroteca.mundodeportivo.com/preview/1976/01/11/pagina-26/1012793/pdf.html
Please guys check the veracity of this newspaper or show it; that in the case it would be useless.
Vegito you let me to intervene? what public EL MUNDO DEPORTIVO ( newspaper beautiful and reliable Spanish) through HEMEROTECA is the ranking of 31.12.1975 and is correct .
Vilas had been number one for several weeks during the September-November period + two weeks of January 1976 , then immediately after the 31.12.1975 .
Slasher said in other forums That ATP published the rankings just before and after the periods in cui Vilas was number one . That's a Scandal .Yes. It´s just that the newspaper publish it a 11.01.1976 and says the ATP published the ranking that day; I was guessing the newspaper show the information late or the ATP "took his time" to elaborate the ranking. There was a ranking of 31.12.1975. I know there is one from 15.12.1975
Other thing. Slasher said in other forum that ATP published the rankings just before and after the periods in which Vilas was number one. That´s a scandal.