Rafa's road to the 2010 Wimbledon title

Rafa the King

Rafa the King

Hall of Fame
Just was feeling a nostalgic and looked up Rafa's road to the Wimbledon 2010 title, a very special title for me as a fan as I was there during the two weeks as a fan and managed to go to 3 of Rafa's matches including the final. His level was exceptional, especially in that match against Murray. The Rafa of post 2011 would have been knocked out by inspired opponents in R2 and R3. Enjoy! (Or don't :D)
Sadly the match against Petzschner is missing, add the link if you find it please :)

 
nadalfan2013

nadalfan2013

Professional
It's really a shame that he couldn't play the 2009 tournament due to injury, as he won in 2008 & 2010. Someone took advantage of his setback, as usual.
 
Rafa the King

Rafa the King

Hall of Fame
KINGROGER said:
Great year for Nadal. But no one can call any of Fed's draws easy if they are a Nadal fan.
Click to expand...

Yes, yes they can. Rafa fans aknowledge that the field weakend in 2010, but besides the channel slam in 2010 Rafa always has had to defeat a minimum of one Tier 1 great in his prime to win a title. Rog can't say that for most of his slams.
 
vanioMan

vanioMan

Legend
The Petzschner and Haase were nail-biters. Afterwards, he was unstoppable His form from R4 to the final was amazing.
 
T

TMF

Talk Tennis Guru
nadalfan2013 said:
It's really a shame that he couldn't play the 2009 tournament due to injury, as he won in 2008 & 2010. Someone took advantage of his setback, as usual.
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We don't know, and he could get eliminated early like in 2012 and 2013 Wimbledon.
 
nadalfan2013

nadalfan2013

Professional
TMF said:
We don't know, and he could get eliminated early like in 2012 and 2013 Wimbledon.
Click to expand...

2006 Final
2007 Final
2008 Champion
2009 DNP
2010 Champion
2011 Final

Chances are, he would have made a huge run for Wimbledon 2009. During his prime on grass, he was a huge force. Definitely underrated and forgotten by some due to his last few years.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
Rafa the King said:
Yes, yes they can. Rafa fans aknowledge that the field weakend in 2010, but besides the channel slam in 2010 Rafa always has had to defeat a minimum of one Tier 1 great in his prime to win a title. Rog can't say that for most of his slams.
Click to expand...

Prime Djokovic in 2010?

kFwBaEd.gif
 
Fedeonic

Fedeonic

Hall of Fame
Those were the good ol' Nadal's days, a tough first week with a little help from a MTO vs Petzschner and a brillant second week. His knees gave up on grass in 2012 and never got back to his peak grass level.
 
InsideOut900

InsideOut900

Legend
Rafa the King said:
Rafa always has had to defeat a minimum of one Tier 1 great in his prime to win a title. Rog can't say that for most of his slams.
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That is a flawed logic.
A player's form is not determined by his status.(a.k.a Tier 1 great).
It is really not the place to debate here,but I will give you a relevant example.
Roddick at USO 06/07 is better than 10/13 Djokovic at the same venue.
So by default Federer had it harder despite facing Roddick instead of the tier 1 great Djokovic.
You can apply this logic at a global level and see things are not really like that regarding Nadal's draws :)
So just enjoy Nadal's win and don't go further with the discussion. ;)
nadalfan2013 said:
Chances are, he would have made a huge run for Wimbledon 2009. During his prime on grass, he was a huge force. Definitely underrated and forgotten by some due to his last few years.
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I always tried to acknowledge Nadal's grass game. The main issue is not Nadal's form,but the draw.
With his level of confidance around that time(2 losses at Madrid and RG) I find it hard to believe he would beat Roddick and Federer b2b,both at the top of their games.
Even 2008 Nadal,who was in supreme grass form would not be a lock to win there.
 
D

Deleted member 733170

Guest
InsideOut900 said:
That is a flawed logic.
A player's form is not determined by his status.(a.k.a Tier 1 great).
It is really not the place to debate here,but I will give you a relevant example.
Roddick at USO 06/07 is better than 10/13 Djokovic at the same venue.
So by default Federer had it harder despite facing Roddick instead of the tier 1 great Djokovic.
You can apply this logic at a global level and see things are not really like that regarding Nadal's draws :)
So just enjoy Nadal's win and don't go further with the discussion. ;)

I always tried to acknowledge Nadal's grass game. The main issue is not Nadal's form,but the draw.
With his level of confidance around that time(2 losses at Madrid and RG) I find it hard to believe he would beat Roddick and Federer b2b,both at the top of their games.
Even 2008 Nadal,who was in supreme grass form would not be a lock to win there.
Click to expand...

Well done, your first paragraph is a clever way of debunking some of the BS which passes as fact in these parts.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
Nice collection.

Loved his response after being a break point down in the 2nd set against Soderling.

Finally someone responding properly to claims that ErraniserveNotoptiertitleandFourtop10winsinawholeyear was prime Djokovic. :D
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To be fair Djokovic did play a good match overall. But calling him Prime that year is just a massive joke.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
NatF said:
To be fair Djokovic did play a good match overall. But calling him Prime that year is just a massive joke.

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
He did, maybe even better than the final against Nadal in 2013, though there is a big difference between the standards that he had in those two respective years.
 
Rafa the King

Rafa the King

Hall of Fame
@NatF you go on about looking beyond the name and looking at the performance. I ignored Roddick in 04 and 06, Djokovic 2010 beat a Federer who had steamrolled his way into that stage and just came from reaching the Final and winning the other in the US Open Series Masters. That Djokovic was brilliant, better than any USO he ever played aside from the two he won.

Roddick on the other hand is Roger's pigeon, he can be as great as he was and it's sad that he will be remembered as his pigeon, but not even once did he win an important match against Fed.
 
Rafa the King

Rafa the King

Hall of Fame
nadalfan2013 said:
2006 Final
2007 Final
2008 Champion
2009 DNP
2010 Champion
2011 Final

Chances are, he would have made a huge run for Wimbledon 2009. During his prime on grass, he was a huge force. Definitely underrated and forgotten by some due to his last few years.
Click to expand...

Well he was never going to do well at that Wimbledon with those ****ed up knees, had his knees not given in prior to the weeks before the tourney, he would have been the favorite to win surely. He was 6/1 to win the CYGS at some point that year.
 
DreddyTennis45

DreddyTennis45

Hall of Fame
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
He did, maybe even better than the final against Nadal in 2013, though there is a big difference between the standards that he had in those two respective years.
Click to expand...

Rafa the King said:
@NatF you go on about looking beyond the name and looking at the performance. I ignored Roddick in 04 and 06, Djokovic 2010 beat a Federer who had steamrolled his way into that stage and just came from reaching the Final and winning the other in the US Open Series Masters. That Djokovic was brilliant, better than any USO he ever played aside from the two he won.

Roddick on the other hand is Roger's pigeon, he can be as great as he was and it's sad that he will be remembered as his pigeon, but not even once did he win an important match against Fed.
Click to expand...

It wasn't "prime" Djokovic but towards the end of 2010 he was starting to pick up his stride. Reached the finals of USO/Davis Cup/China Open/Basel and got to the Semis of Shanghai and WTF
 
E

eldanger25

Hall of Fame
Nadal was indeed quite good at Wimbledon for several years - it's not often mentioned that he was on a 20 match win streak at the venue before the horse-whipping Djokovic administered at the 2011 title fight. I think only Fred "Refrigerator" Perry, the Rocket, the Ice Man, Petros and Fed have longer win streaks there in the last 100+ years worth of Wimbledons.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
He did, maybe even better than the final against Nadal in 2013, though there is a big difference between the standards that he had in those two respective years.
Click to expand...

I think it was better than 2013 personally.

Rafa the King said:
@NatF you go on about looking beyond the name and looking at the performance. I ignored Roddick in 04 and 06, Djokovic 2010 beat a Federer who had steamrolled his way into that stage and just came from reaching the Final and winning the other in the US Open Series Masters. That Djokovic was brilliant, better than any USO he ever played aside from the two he won.

Roddick on the other hand is Roger's pigeon, he can be as great as he was and it's sad that he will be remembered as his pigeon, but not even once did he win an important match against Fed.
Click to expand...

Roddick never won an important match because Federer was just that good ;)

Dimitrov beat a Nadal who steamrolled his way through to that stage no?

Federer 2007:

Winners: 42
Unforced Errors: 34
Errors forced: 37
Differential: +45

Federer 2008:

Winners: 51
Unforced Errors: 28
Errors forced: 37
Differential: +60

Federer 2009:

Winners: 49
Unforced Errors: 33
Errors forced: 37
Differential: +53

Federer 2010:

Winners: 48
Unforced Errors: 66
Errors forced: 62
Differential: +44

A big spike in UE's from Federer in 2010, you would expect his differential to get higher as the match went on as well if he was in form but it's only the same as in a 3 set match again indicated a dip in level. looking at Djokovic...

Djokovic 2007:

Winners: 32
Unforced Errors: 40
Errors forced: 37
Differential: +29

Djokovic 2008:

Winners: 43
Unforced Errors: 47
Errors forced: 43
Differential: +43

Djokovic 2009:

Winners: 31
Unforced Errors: 33
Errors forced: 41
Differential: +39

Djokovic 2010:

Winners: 36
Unforced Errors: 38
Errors forced: 61
Differential: +59

Looking at these stats aside from 2007 they are very similar overall, he forced a lot more errors in 2010 but his winner count was relatively lower. Probably a consequence of him playing more conservatively and taking advantage of Federer's lesser movement compared to 07-09. Like I said you would expect the differential to get higher as a match goes on for example, of you're +5 every set then after 3 sets you would be +15 and by set 5 you would be +25.

It doesn't look like some massive jump from Djokovic to me...
 
Rafa the King

Rafa the King

Hall of Fame
@NatF don't try to lesser the example with that comparison. 5 straight set wins at a slam is obviously an impressive thing, Roger messed his stats up by tanking two sets once he got a break down. Anyway not the point, don't know how he could beat a good Federer in good form and not be considered prime, I didn't call him peak or anything.
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
Rafa the King said:
@NatF don't try to lesser the example with that comparison. 5 straight set wins at a slam is obviously an impressive thing, Roger messed his stats up by tanking two sets once he got a break down. Anyway not the point, don't know how he could beat a good Federer in good form and not be considered prime, I didn't call him peak or anything.
Click to expand...

Federer had already lost to Del Potro at that point, snapping his win streak.

Like I pointed out Djokovic's played a good steady match but the real difference was Federer's level in that match. It was a clear step down from 07-09 , the fact you think Federer tanking sets elevates his level in some way is ridiculous.
 
Rafa the King

Rafa the King

Hall of Fame
NatF said:
Federer had already lost to Del Potro at that point, snapping his win streak.

Like I pointed out Djokovic's played a good steady match but the real difference was Federer's level in that match. It was a clear step down from 07-09 , the fact you think Federer tanking sets elevates his level in some way is ridiculous.
Click to expand...

I think it was Rog's worse US since 03 but Also Nole's best up to that point.
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Rafa the King said:
@NatF don't try to lesser the example with that comparison. 5 straight set wins at a slam is obviously an impressive thing, Roger messed his stats up by tanking two sets once he got a break down. Anyway not the point, don't know how he could beat a good Federer in good form and not be considered prime, I didn't call him peak or anything.
Click to expand...

You've just contradicted yourself. Who would tank sets when playing well? No, tanking means being short on confidence or stamina. In-form players do not tank, lol. Unless you have a broad definition of good form. I measure player form up to his/her prime standards; a mediocre ATG still kicks most players' asses, the difference comes when he faces his equal. Nadal failing to kick many asses recently he used to kick in his sleep means his form isn't just mediocre, it's been really poor most of the time...

Also, steamrolling really means absolutely nothing. One can rip smoothly against lesser players, than meet someone in form, and bam, game gets taken apart, you lose. You're acting like that hasn't happened to Nadal, when it absolutely has, just like to everyone else. (Case in point: AO 08, RG 09 (!), USO 09, RG 15, USO 16...)
 
NatF

NatF

Bionic Poster
Rafa the King said:
I think it was Rog's worse US since 03 but Also Nole's best up to that point.
Click to expand...

Hard to say, he returned well in 2010 but his serve was worse than it had been in any of the previous runs. It was the only year that he won less than 70% of his first serve points, his percentage of aces to serves was also at 3% less than half the next worst (2009) which was 6.6% and FYI in 2008 it was at 9.3%.

Here's the breakdown...

Djokovic_serve.png


Worth noting that in 2008 the return numbers are quite down but Djokovic played Cilic, Roddick and Federer which dragged his return points won (RPW) down. His toughest draw was 2008. Like I showed his stats in the SF were hardly different either anyway...
 
N

nowhereman

Guest
Likely Nadal's last Wimbledon. Sad, because he used to be so lethal on the surface at times.
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
nowhereman said:
Likely Nadal's last Wimbledon. Sad, because he used to be so lethal on the surface at times.
Click to expand...

From 2006 to 2011 he never failed to make the final (except in 2009 when he didn't play because of injury) and picked up 2 titles (plus 1 at Queens) along the way. Since then he has never got past the 1st week at Wimbledon whenever he's played! :(

He did win a grasscourt event in Stuttgart last year so maybe all is not quite lost? :cool:
 
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D

Deleted member 307496

Guest
nadalfan2013 said:
It's really a shame that he couldn't play the 2009 tournament due to injury, as he won in 2008 & 2010. Someone took advantage of his setback, as usual.
Click to expand...
He wouldn't have beaten Roger, as much as you and 60's Weed like to think. 2008 was a monumental effort, it wasn't easy for even peak Rafa to take out Roger at Wimbledon and Roger was in better form in 2009.
 
metsman

metsman

G.O.A.T.
NatF said:
Prime Djokovic in 2010?

kFwBaEd.gif
Click to expand...
2013 Djokovic was probably even worse in the USO final. And of course 2012/2014 Djokovic in the FO finals was no better than many of Federer's non-ATG slam opposition and worse than some of them (04/09 Wimby Roddick, 09 FO Delpo, 05 USO Hewitt)
 
metsman

metsman

G.O.A.T.
2010 USO SF Federer was in-form well playing Federer? I have heard it all now....2010 USO series is a worse serving better moving version of the 2014 USO series Federer. Identical results both years, but level was not high at all.
 
Krish872007

Krish872007

Talk Tennis Guru
Between 2007 and 2011 Wimbledon, Rafa didn't lose a Slam Final (7-0 record)
This was a very good run overall - even when he got stretched to 5 sets twice, he didn't look particularly fussed and was not in real danger. The SF and Final matches were at a high level
 
metsman

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Just so people remember Nadal would have had to beat Hewitt, the guy who almost beat him the next year in Petzschner, Roddick, Murray, and Federer to win 09 Wimby. All were in good form relative to their level at the time. Not impossible but it's pretty far from a guarantee. Would give it less than even odds. Nadal walked several tightropes in 2010 against much lesser opposition and he was more confident in 2010 than he would have been in 09 (coming off the FO loss).
 
metsman

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Krish872007 said:
Between 2007 and 2011 Wimbledon, Rafa didn't lose a Slam Final (7-0 record)
This was a very good run overall - even when he got stretched to 5 sets twice, he didn't look particularly fussed and was not in real danger. The SF and Final matches were at a high level
Click to expand...
the semi against Murray was a great match, both were playing quite well and Rafa raised his game at the end of each set to pull it off.
 
H_Richardson

H_Richardson

Semi-Pro
metsman said:
Just so people remember Nadal would have had to beat Hewitt, the guy who almost beat him the next year in Petzschner, Roddick, Murray, and Federer to win 09 Wimby. All were in good form relative to their level at the time. Not impossible but it's pretty far from a guarantee. Would give it less than even odds. Nadal walked several tightropes in 2010 against much lesser opposition and he was more confident in 2010 than he would have been in 09 (coming off the FO loss).
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If Nadal made it through the draw, who would you take in the final vs Federer given both their levels?
 
metsman

metsman

G.O.A.T.
H_Richardson said:
If Nadal made it through the draw, who would you take in the final vs Federer given both their levels?
Click to expand...
Goes both ways. Maybe Nadal because of his general mental advantage over Fed at the time. That would probably be the safe answer. But definitely not out of the question Fed could have overcome that to break the record with pete in the house. He did it in 07 with Borg. Of course Fed in 07 had way more confidence over Rafa than he did in 09. Still heading into 09 Wimby, with the result of the FO, Fed would have been more confident in general, and Nadal less so. Very different from 08 when Rafa was at the absolute top of his game, Fed was struggling going in(although definitely played well at Wimby and got his form back) and Rafa had just embarrassed him in Paris. Still, you look at the effort Rafa had to give to win in 08 despite those factors and that indicates Fed would have a definite shot in 09.
 
TheFifthSet

TheFifthSet

Legend
Rafa the King said:
Yes, yes they can. Rafa fans aknowledge that the field weakend in 2010, but besides the channel slam in 2010 Rafa always has had to defeat a minimum of one Tier 1 great in his prime to win a title. Rog can't say that for most of his slams.
Click to expand...

Federer and Djokovic probably aren't Tier 1 clay greats, though.
 
AnOctorokForDinner

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Rafa the King said:
Name me 5 better clay-courters in the open era
Click to expand...
Nadal, Borg, Lendl, Wilander, Kuerten. That was easy, everyone with 3+ RG titles. Speaking about peak level, which is more important in rating the elite competition than consistency, the likes of Bruguera and Courier are in the conversation.

The reason I say peak is more important for elite competition is that it's easier for an elite, consistent player to deal with someone who is also consistent, but consistently worse, rather than with someone who may get hot just once but that with a stronger, more dangerous level. Federer and Djokovic were consistently worse than Nadal at RG, so he beat them up without much fuss more often than not. 2006, 2011, 2013 were the only runs in which he was in danger. In 2014, he lost the first set of the final, but after winning the second set, with Djokovic looking bleak, it was generally one way, similarly to Wim '12 final.
 
H_Richardson

H_Richardson

Semi-Pro
metsman said:
Goes both ways. Maybe Nadal because of his general mental advantage over Fed at the time. That would probably be the safe answer. But definitely not out of the question Fed could have overcome that to break the record with pete in the house. He did it in 07 with Borg. Of course Fed in 07 had way more confidence over Rafa than he did in 09. Still heading into 09 Wimby, with the result of the FO, Fed would have been more confident in general, and Nadal less so. Very different from 08 when Rafa was at the absolute top of his game, Fed was struggling going in(although definitely played well at Wimby and got his form back) and Rafa had just embarrassed him in Paris. Still, you look at the effort Rafa had to give to win in 08 despite those factors and that indicates Fed would have a definite shot in 09.
Click to expand...

Great hypothetical analysis :)
 
D

Deleted member 512391

Guest
Sabratha said:
He wouldn't have beaten Roger, as much as you and 60's Weed like to think. 2008 was a monumental effort, it wasn't easy for even peak Rafa to take out Roger at Wimbledon and Roger was in better form in 2009.
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Yeah, man, I could never understand the position that Nadal's victory over Roger at Wimbledon 09 would've been guaranteed.

Nadal in 2008 was playing his best tennis on grass, never reached that level again and he barely won the Wimbledon final, only after five sets. Gulbis pushed him to the limits in the second round as well.
He also had extremely tough matches at Queens and a mentally fragile Djokovic in the final who was a break up in both sets (not trying to diminish Nadal's success, just to state the obvious - even in his best year, he really struggled on that surface).

Assuming that he would have won the tournament in 2009, had he entered, was a pure speculation without any significant argument. Would really love to see him beating Hewitt, Roddick, Murray and extremely confident Roger in the final. He would have to repeat his performances from 2008 and even that might not be enough.
 
metsman

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Rafa the King said:
Name me 5 better clay-courters in the open era
Click to expand...
Nadal, Borg, Kuerten, Lendl are the only ones I would definitely put above them and maybe Wilander too. Bruguera and Courier are in the conversation of course but I don't think 1 extra RG makes up for Fed/Djok's better consistency and the nadal factor. Although I think on peak clay level Fed can stand up to Kuerten or Lendl and above Wilander. I'm one of the nice ones though. I tend to fall more on the side of "nadal screwed them" more than "the only reason they got to all the finals was the weak clay field". Both are true to some extent. But I do think it is insane to put Muster or Vilas above them for example. Courier has the peak level to hang with them, his RG peak was better than Djokovic's and similar to Fed's. I don't think Bruguera has the same top level. Vilas faced the same quandary they did except he never even came close to beating Borg on clay besides when Borg was 18.

So in short I think the top 4 is Nadal, Borg, Lendl, Kuerten in that order but after that there is a lot of room for debate between Wilander, Federer, Djokovic, Courier, Bruguera. Muster and Vilas are next and I think a guy like Ferrero belongs there too.
 
TheFifthSet

TheFifthSet

Legend
NatF said:
Nadal, Borg, Kuerten, Lendl, Wilander to start with...then there's guys like Vilas, Muster, Bruguera, Courier who are potentially superior.
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Krish872007 said:
Borg, Kuerten, Wilander, Lendl, Bruguera, possibly Muster (and Nadal of course)
Click to expand...

Rafa the King said:
Name me 5 better clay-courters in the open era
Click to expand...

Already covered, it seems :p (although I'd give Fedkovic the edge over Bruguera, Muster and probably Courier)

Also, what's the point in limiting it to Open Era greats?
 
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