Amazing things I learned about BORG

dirkgnuf · Nov 14, 2006

Reading a 1980 TIME article on BJORN, I learned that he possessed a resting heartrate of 38, strung his racquets at 80 lbs, had one of the highest leg strength record among sweedish athletes.
I do have a qustion though.
In the article, his technique is described as unorthadox since he hit with topspin. The article attirbuted this to the fact that he never really had formal training as a kid, so he imitated ping-pong players(his dad was one) and hit with whippy motions. His coach even got a specially balanced racquet that would encourage him to stop using so much wrist. What I'd like to know is whether his technique was already something that was around, or was it more something that he seems to have invented. Also, how accurate are the facts in the article?
Link to the article is:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,924275,00.html

stormholloway · Nov 15, 2006

There's a lot of speculation about who invented the modern stroke, but if anyone did, it was Borg.

With the racquets used back then, topspin shots allow for little margin for error and the weight of those racquets wasn't considered suitable for the wrist. Borg proved all of this wrong. Borg was the father of modern tennis. Lendl followed as perhaps the godson.

LttlElvis · Nov 15, 2006

Yes, I believe the article is factual. I actually have that original Time magazine. I was a big Borg fan when I was 14.

His technique was pretty unusual for that time. He used big loopy topspin strokes and hit with an open stance. Both those techniques were really frowned upon by instructors at the time. Everyone wanted to hit like him, but tennis instructors wouldn't teach that way.

The article also had the typical cartoony Time graphics. One showing the effects of topspin versus traditional strokes. It showed how Borg could hit harder than most players, yet keep the ball in because of his spin. ( This is very well known now, but at the time I don't think anyone used heavy topsin to the extent of Borg. Maybe Vilas, but Borg was just on another level ).

As far as conditioning, Borg had to be one of the most fit pros at the time. I think in a Superstars sprint competition he actually won it beating an Olympic hurdler.

urban · Nov 15, 2006

Topspin was invented resp. really practiced in the 60s. Players like Laver, Santana, later Okker began to hit all the shots or the greatest part with topspin. On European clay they began to hit from an open stance. But Borg was the first to hit with an extreme western grip, and with extreme rotation . He came from ping-pong and ice-hockey.While the US top players like Evert or Connors played more a hard court adapted flat style (also with dh backhands), the Europeans and South Americans used extreme topspin on their favorite surface, clay. They had the advantage, that many events in the USA were played on clay-like surfaces. So topspin became the dominant style of the 70s, even adapted by US players like Solomon or Dibbs.

dirkgnuf · Nov 15, 2006

A few questions.
I recall reading somewhere that Borg's grip was exterme eastern/mild western?
Also, I'm assuming that Borg's technique was half self-learned/taught, but the former more so than the latter?

eunjam · Nov 15, 2006

i read/saw somewhere that he got his stroke from hitting hockey pucks.

Bjorn99 · Nov 15, 2006

Cyborg was created to play tennis. No sane person buys that theory that he got started with a tennis racquet won at a ping pong tournament, do they?

LowProfile · Nov 15, 2006

I've often heard that Borg's unorthodox two-to-one handed backhand was modeled after his hockey slapshot.

thejackal · Nov 16, 2006

LowProfile said:
I've often heard that Borg's unorthodox two-to-one handed backhand was modeled after his hockey slapshot.

While it's probably true, I've never seen any hockey player finish a slap shot with 1 hand on the stick, and I've been playing since the age of 6.

Take2 · Nov 19, 2006

Borg hit his forehand with a semi-western grip...which, at the time, was considered extreme. The true extreme western grip came later along with poly strings and light-powerful rackets. The "moonballs" that Borg, Vilas and Wilander hit were actually very heavy balls.

We all copied Borg's strokes back in the day, so open-stances and heavy topspin were at all the public courts and junior tournaments back in the late 70s.

I do think Borg is the father of the modern topspin game. And, since someone mentioned Lendl, it's been said here before that he invented the inside-out forehand.

Amone · Nov 19, 2006

Actually, while uncommon, it did happen, albiet not with the big-name players. Apparently, there were a number of semiwestern players as far back as Tilden's days in the 20s. Kumagae, for instance. Not many, but there were a very few.

Trinity TC · Nov 19, 2006

Bjorn Borg was the first world class player to hit the modern forehand. Nobody of any consequence hit the ball with an open stance, table tennis loop forehand before him. The extreme topspin and unusual bouncing heavy ball was what separated Borg's forehand from Laver, Santana, European clay court specialists and pre-WWII western forehands such as Kumagae and Little Bill Johnston. Another thing, Borg was 15 when he first burst on the scene.

Take2 said:
And, since someone mentioned Lendl, it's been said here before that he invented the inside-out forehand.

Lendl didn't invent the inside out forehand. I saw matches where Borg ran into the backhand doubles alley and hit inside-out forehand winners. Forehand dominant players such as Frank Froehling used the inside-out forehand back in the 60s.

BTW, I think that Andre Agassi is the inventor of the modern game as he was one of the first to exploit the advantages of carbon fiber racquets with his catch the ball on the rise, power groundstroke game. Hoad, McEnroe, Mecir and others did it too but not with the power of Agassi.

dirkgnuf · Nov 21, 2006

I'm still amazed by his extremely low heart rate and amazing fitness, but I guess most of the players of today are in similar shape?

slice bh compliment · Nov 21, 2006

Trinity TC said:
...Lendl didn't invent the inside out forehand. I saw matches where Borg ran into the backhand doubles alley and hit inside-out forehand winners. Forehand dominant players such as Frank Froehling used the inside-out forehand back in the 60s.

BTW, I think that Andre Agassi is the inventor of the modern game as he was one of the first to exploit the advantages of carbon fiber racquets with his catch the ball on the rise, power groundstroke game. Hoad, McEnroe, Mecir and others did it too but not with the power of Agassi.

Good points, especially about Hoad.
Of course Borg brought topspin to the people and Lendl made superb fitness a pre-req for tennis, but let's not forget the violent topspins of Laver and Nastase and the majestic and illegible one-handed backhand topspin lobs and passes that oozed from the frame of the great Manolo Santana.

Rabbit · Nov 21, 2006

From what I remember, topspin was just a natural evolution in tennis. Nastase, definetly a precursor to Borg, had everyone in awe because he could hit a backhand topspin lob on the dead run. Nastase also used a big topspin forehand to put his opponents in trouble. I think Nastase's idol was Pancho Gonzalez. I'm not sure if Gonzalez hit with top, but Nastase grew up on red clay and probably learned it there.

Borg's slapshot backhand was more an invention of the press (see one Bud Collins) than anything else. The press went on to say that Agassi's forehand looked like a punch (his father was an Olympic boxer for Iran), Courier's backhand looked like a baseball player's batting swing (Courier wass a big Reds fan). Borg's backhand was unusual because prior to Borg, not many players had two-handed backhands. Borg, Connors, and Evert arrived on the scene at around the same time all sporting two-handers.

Borg's fitness was legendary. The matches back then had longer rallies and lasted longer than today, especially on clay. Lendl has said in an interview that tennis then was more akin to a marathon while today it's closer to being like s sprint.

nickarnold2000 · Nov 21, 2006

Every tennis player's nightmare - strings breaking by themselves while you're sleeping!

Bjorn99 · Nov 22, 2006

Evert apparently was very unlike her public image. Meow.

dpfrazier · Nov 22, 2006

nickarnold2000 said:
Every tennis player's nightmare - strings breaking by themselves while you're sleeping!

Bjorn99 said:
Evert apparently was very unlike her public image. Meow.

Are these non sequiturs? Or are you two implying that Borg's very-tightly-strung racquet strings would break when he slept with Chris Evert?

Mick · Nov 22, 2006

dirkgnuf said:
...The article attirbuted this to the fact that he never really had formal training as a kid, so he imitated ping-pong players(his dad was one) and hit with whippy motions...

Ping pong anyone ???

MLoutch · Nov 23, 2006

Jim Courier a few weeks back was here in Houston for his senior tour event and was doing the rounds on local Tv and talk radio - on three different shows Courier was asked which past player he looked "up to". well Jim stated

that Borg was his "tennis God" for achieving the grand 3 - Jim said that Borg in the 70's had slept with ALL 3 Charlie's Angels - Farrah, Kate Jackson and Jaclyn Smith!!! He didn't get to elaborate if it was all at once or one at a time!
Borg - the legend continues.

Eli_Ace · Nov 26, 2006

dirkgnuf said:
Reading a 1980 TIME article on BJORN, I learned that he possessed a resting heartrate of 38, strung his racquets at 80 lbs, had one of the highest leg strength record among sweedish athletes.
I do have a qustion though.
In the article, his technique is described as unorthadox since he hit with topspin. The article attirbuted this to the fact that he never really had formal training as a kid, so he imitated ping-pong players(his dad was one) and hit with whippy motions. His coach even got a specially balanced racquet that would encourage him to stop using so much wrist. What I'd like to know is whether his technique was already something that was around, or was it more something that he seems to have invented. Also, how accurate are the facts in the article?
Link to the article is:
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,924275,00.html

They said he also tried to kill himself on sleeping pills...

emerckx53 · Nov 29, 2006

dirkgnuf said:
I'm still amazed by his extremely low heart rate and amazing fitness, but I guess most of the players of today are in similar shape?

Extrememly low heart rates are not always a factor of fitness. Yes, in general terms more fitness means lower HR but much of it is natural. There are some absolute cardio monsters in professional cycling that have resting Hr's in the mid 40's and they could crush someone like borg in cardio fitness....resting and max HR's vary from person to person.....

emerckx53 · Nov 29, 2006

Mick,

Your Borg stuff rocks......I was the biggest Borg fan on earth! I was self taught and learned by watching Borg play on TV....I had my bedroom walls plastered with Borg photos, I even tried to walk like him on the court, used both models of Donnays, even had like 6 Donnay Allwoods in my bag when I was a senior in high school! begged for Fila pin stripes from my parents, I even used the Bancroft Borg Auto woodie prior to the Donnay's...even strung them as tight as his, the right hand and thumb wrapped in tape... Bjorn was the dogs bollocks!....I was the Minnesota version of Borg! If you have any great photos I would be very grateful. love to have some desktop shots!

madair@fastmail.fm

emerckx53 · Nov 29, 2006

Mick said:
Ping pong anyone ???

Mick,

See my post just above...

Mick · Nov 29, 2006

emerckx53 said:
Mick,

Your Borg stuff rocks......I was the biggest Borg fan on earth! I was self taught and learned by watching Borg play on TV....I had my bedroom walls plastered with Borg photos, I even tried to walk like him on the court, used both models of Donnays, even had like 6 Donnay Allwoods in my bag when I was a senior in high school! begged for Fila pin stripes from my parents, I even used the Bancroft Borg Auto woodie prior to the Donnay's...even strung them as tight as his, the right hand and thumb wrapped in tape... Bjorn was the dogs bollocks!....I was the Minnesota version of Borg! If you have any great photos I would be very grateful. love to have some desktop shots!

madair@fastmail.fm

Nice! I only have 3 Donnay rackets

I got those pics from this website . Lots of cool Borg pics there, some I saw for the first time. Check it out

http://bjornborgfanforever1.free.fr/cariboost1/

emerckx53 · Nov 29, 2006

Mick said:
Nice! I only have 3 Donnay rackets

I got those pics from this website . Lots of cool Borg pics there, some I saw for the first time. Check it out

http://bjornborgfanforever1.free.fr/cariboost1/

Thanks..it was priceless..

Mick · Nov 30, 2006

emerckx53 said:
Thanks..it was priceless..

No Problem

I probably was not as big of a Borg fan as you were but i recall my tennis buddies used to call me Bjorn Borgno (porno)

heycal · Nov 30, 2006

Did we settle on what kind of grips Borg used? And also, what about the grips used by Laver and Nastase to create their topspin as mentioned above?

The Gorilla · Dec 1, 2006

topspin and full westerns were used as long ago as the 1920's,this fella,little bill johnston hit with a full western grip and hit the ball at shoulder height.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Johnston

slice bh compliment · Dec 1, 2006

The Gorilla said:
topspin and full westerns were used as long ago as the 1920's,this fella,little bill johnston hit with a full western grip and hit the ball at shoulder height.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Johnston

Yeah, and do not forget Zenzo Shimizu (and his contemporaries). Of course they would have lost to Borg by scores like 6-negative 3, 6-negative 2, 6-0.

PimpMyGame · Dec 6, 2006

MLoutch said:
well Jim stated that Borg was his "tennis God" for achieving the grand 3 - Jim said that Borg in the 70's had slept with ALL 3 Charlie's Angels - Farrah, Kate Jackson and Jaclyn Smith!!! He didn't get to elaborate if it was all at once or one at a time!
Borg - the legend continues.

The sign of a real sportsman - they don't make them like that too often nowadays. Very cool.

civic · Dec 6, 2006

Rabbit said:
Borg's fitness was legendary. The matches back then had longer rallies and lasted longer than today, especially on clay. Lendl has said in an interview that tennis then was more akin to a marathon while today it's closer to being like s sprint.

I bet Borg was Lendl's main idol. In terms of fitness, Lendl definitely followed Borg's path, and it's probably why Lendl became so successful at the French Open.

borg number one · Sep 20, 2009

See this interesting article called the hard facts about Bjorn Borg. I enjoyed this excellent summary about him.

http://www.bjornborg.com/en/Heritage/Hard-Facts/

video:

http://www.bjornborg.com/en/Heritage/?version=1

Q&A with Borg:
http://www.bjornborg.com/en/Heritage/Ask-Bjorn-Borg/

jnd28 · Sep 21, 2009

As has been noted here, there were plenty of players who used western gripped/ heavy topspin forehands before Borg.

Interestingly, Nick B. says that his teaching of the "killer forehand",which really was the stroke that has changed the game, came from Jimmy Arias.

Who would have thought! I remember reading someplace that after seeing Arias as a 12 year old, Bollettieri changed his view of the stroke and started teaching the "arias" forehand which became the Bollettieri forehand that he in turn taught to all of his celebrated students.

JND28

pmerk34 · Sep 21, 2009

LttlElvis said:
Yes, I believe the article is factual. I actually have that original Time magazine. I was a big Borg fan when I was 14.

His technique was pretty unusual for that time. He used big loopy topspin strokes and hit with an open stance. Both those techniques were really frowned upon by instructors at the time. Everyone wanted to hit like him, but tennis instructors wouldn't teach that way.

The article also had the typical cartoony Time graphics. One showing the effects of topspin versus traditional strokes. It showed how Borg could hit harder than most players, yet keep the ball in because of his spin. ( This is very well known now, but at the time I don't think anyone used heavy topsin to the extent of Borg. Maybe Vilas, but Borg was just on another level ).

As far as conditioning, Borg had to be one of the most fit pros at the time. I think in a Superstars sprint competition he actually won it beating an Olympic hurdler.

Interesting. My bother was constantly being told by the High School tennis coach that he was going to hurt his wrist becuase he hit with an open stance and western grip off his back foot. Our coach was always trying to get him to hit with a closed stance and with more traditional grip and this was in 1988! of course our coach was in his 50's and from the old school

pmerk34 · Sep 21, 2009

jnd28 said:
As has been noted here, there were plenty of players who used western gripped/ heavy topspin forehands before Borg.

Interestingly, Nick B. says that his teaching of the "killer forehand",which really was the stroke that has changed the game, came from Jimmy Arias.

Who would have thought! I remember reading someplace that after seeing Arias as a 12 year old, Bollettieri changed his view of the stroke and started teaching the "arias" forehand which became the Bollettieri forehand that he in turn taught to all of his celebrated students.

JND28

Yeah, but who of note? Borg reached number one playing this new style.

borg number one · Sep 21, 2009

One more link from that site I talk about in the above post. Some of these things tend to humanize him, just click on the links under "your own stories":

http://www.bjornborg.com/en/Heritage/Your-stories/Mr-Borg-in-a-supermarket/

borg number one · Sep 21, 2009

Until the last few years, when I began revisiting Bjorn Borg's legacy, etc. , I did not realize that he had such great success playing for the Swedish Davis Cup Team. Check this out:

"At the age of 14, Borg left school to devote all his time to tennis. It paid off, and at 15 he was selected for the Swedish Davis Cup team; by 16 he was Wimbledon Junior Champion."

Now that is a "prodigy" as others on this website have mentioned.

See his Davis Cup Record. He led Sweden to the Davis Cup win in 1975. His Davis Cup record was 37-3 from 1972-1980.

From: http://www.daviscup.com/teams/player.asp?player=10002258

borg number one · Sep 21, 2009

I suppose there was a confluence of events that led to Borg's retirement, including some burnout due to his meteoric rise and then all that winning, but let's not forget this big reason. He most definitely did not just "run away from the game" because he was afraid of other players. That couldn't be farther from the truth in my opinion and greatly discounts this guy after he proved so much and raised the popularity of the game more than anyone before him and more than anyone ever since. He brought tennis to the "masses" and in the words of one British commentator he took tennis out of just the country club set and made it something interesting for the working person.

"Borg chose not to follow the entire world-wide tour, insisting on a long vacation. This decision brought him into conflict with the men’s tennis council in 1982, and some believe this was part of his decision to retire early, aged only 27."

See full text for the excerpt just above and for the excerpt from the post above:
http://www.thebiographychannel.co.uk/biography_story/284:93/1/Bjorn_Borg.htm

borg number one · Sep 21, 2009

You guys have to watch this video, it includes Borg/McEnroe hitting just a few years ago, but I did not realize that at 19, McEnroe was so grateful that Borg was the first guy to "take him under his wing". That's an amazing quality and says a whole lot about Borg. Anyway, hear McEnroe talk about "the hell with everyone else".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUa2ltLC0hw

These guys are like brothers now...

jnd28 · Sep 22, 2009

pmerk34 said:
Yeah, but who of note? Borg reached number one playing this new style.

Lets see...Bill Johnston reached number one in the world and won two US championships and a Wimbledon title. He's in the Hall of Fame. I think that qualifies as player of note.

pmerk34 · Sep 22, 2009

jnd28 said:
Lets see...Bill Johnston reached number one in the world and won two US championships and a Wimbledon title. He's in the Hall of Fame. I think that qualifies as player of note.

From when 1928? He played like Borg? Borg spawned the generation of heavy topspin back court guys. Not Bill Johnston

jnd28 · Sep 22, 2009

Actually he was #1 I believe in 1919. My point in the first post was that Borg was not the first western gripped heavy topspin player. There were plenty before him. Some really good ones at that. The other point was that the modern forehand game can be attributed more to Nick Bolllettieri than it can be to Borg.

My point by the is not meant in anyway to minimize the greatness of Borg. He was great and I can see why some might argue the best ever. But for people to say he was the first western gripped topspin player and to give him credit for the modern topspin game is simply not supported by the actual history of the game.

JND28

pmerk34 · Sep 22, 2009

jnd28 said:
Actually he was #1 I believe in 1919. My point in the first post was that Borg was not the first western gripped heavy topspin player. There were plenty before him. Some really good ones at that. The other point was that the modern forehand game can be attributed more to Nick Bolllettieri than it can be to Borg.

My point by the is not meant in anyway to minimize the greatness of Borg. He was great and I can see why some might argue the best ever. But for people to say he was the first western gripped topspin player and to give him credit for the modern topspin game is simply not supported by the actual history of the game.

JND28

Borg is the forefather of the modern game period

jnd28 · Sep 22, 2009

I guess because you say so I have to believe it regardless of the actual facts.
Thanks for your well thought out and supported perspective.

JND28

pmerk34 · Sep 22, 2009

jnd28 said:
I guess because you say so I have to believe it regardless of the actual facts.
Thanks for your well thought out and supported perspective.

JND28

I say so? It's been common knowledge that Borg invented it and then Lendl added the power.

jnd28 · Sep 22, 2009

Gee, I must have missed that memo. If you say that it is generally accepted i guess I can put it in the category of a flat earth and using leaches for medical purposes.

I base my POV on actually following the history of the game.

Sorry

JND28

borg number one · Sep 22, 2009

Guys, I tend to think that you can argue this point both ways actually. From reading about past greats, there were definitely several players that could hit massive amounts of topspin, to combat the original tendency for players to simply "cut" or "slice" the ball to death (esp. on grass, that makes sense).

Yet, my view is that Borg tended to take it to the next level during the Open Era, which greatly influenced so many of the modern players, who of course, grew up watching Borg. So, he has had a huge impact on the modern game. There has been a slow evolution with the use of topspin over time. I don't mean to imply that Borg was the very first player to successfully use topspin (think Vilas during just Borg's time), but he did revolutionize the Open era with his use of it, thus impacting so may youngsters growing up. These players (like Lendl) grew up watching him and then, with modern frames, found the use of topspin to be such a perfect "fit". Thanks for the insights. The history of the game is fascinating though. In that thread started by Borgforever, which alludes to so much of the history of the game, I was struck by the fact that in this book, from perhaps the early 20th century (year?) one of the first sentences states that there is great debate over whether the "modern players" are better than the players of old. That's amazing, they were having the same debate back then that we are having now! Oh how the wheel spins. The history of this game is quite fascinating indeed.

jnd28 · Sep 22, 2009

points well taken..For the record It was not my intention to say that old school players were better than modern players - or visa versa. The players get to play against who they play against and I happen to believe that the best in whatever era in whatever sport would be able to compete with the modern versions. That aside, my main issue is the belief that tennis history prior to 1970 for some, 1980 for others, 1990, for a few and 2005 for the least informed did not exist. To say that no player of note hit with a western topspin forehand is the only evidence needed that the poster is clueless to the history of the game.

I also maintain that during borgs era there were tons of heavy topspin players. Pecci, Pannata, Vilas, Nastase are just a few that come to mind. Lendl is only 4 years younger than Borg so I doubt that he was pinning for Borgs game to the extent mentioned here.

Maybe its the lack of definition of the modern game that is at issue. Yes Lendl took fitness to a high level. Maybe even as high as Roy Emerson. He hit a big forehand maybe as big as Hoad. He may even been as quick as Segura but I doubt it.

JND28

borg number one · Sep 22, 2009

Good point as far as Lendl, with just a 4 year difference he was too young, so his shots were already well established by Borg's time. I have another person especially in mind. Again, see this fascinating forehand comparison. It always blows me away. Federer, I think, must have watched Borg quite a bit, especially being Swiss. Check this out, and if you've already seen it, excuse my indulgence. In my opinion, Federer has a BEAUTIFUL topspin forehand, as does Nadal (which is more "violent" no doubt), but Borg's is even more impressive to see (IMO). Check out the positioning of 2 of the game's greats. You could use these in a tennis lesson, but man do you have to talent and racquet head speed. With this discussion, Think..accelerating through the strike zone:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31IYa7VsZYg

Now see some footage of a well past his prime Rocket Rod Laver giving Connors fits as well. I do detect some topspin for sure from Laver. What a historic match up! :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcRN...F839BA24&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=29

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