D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
Not trying to pretend for a moment that Berdych is anyway 'greater' than Roddick, but on the eye test he's just as good.
Discuss.
Discuss.
I'm not good
Rookie
Greater build physically, more solid groundstrokes. Probably weaker mentally
Soul_Evisceration
Hall of Fame
Roddick is miles ahead of Berdych in almost everything except backhands and approach shots (even that one is questionable).
Put Berdych in any eras, up 6-0 6-0 5-0 40-0 vs any opponents in a Grand Slam final and he would find a way to cause the biggest choke meltdown in the history of sports ever made.
Coria's choke would look natural in comparaison.
Put Berdych in any eras, up 6-0 6-0 5-0 40-0 vs any opponents in a Grand Slam final and he would find a way to cause the biggest choke meltdown in the history of sports ever made.
Coria's choke would look natural in comparaison.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Berdych is inferior in almost every aspect. He's a crap (top) player, let's stop pretending he's anything but.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
I think except for BH, Roddick is superior in every aspect of the game . This is based on eye test alone without even looking at any stats or achievements .
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Starting to think this guy is that banned "Fed_Fan" who believed Fed was improving and better than ever and that he's only ever been a junkballer.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Vanilla Slice
Professional
Is this men's tennis forum?
darrinbaker00
Professional
Must we?
Bender
G.O.A.T.
A
AllCourtHeathen
Guest
Bender
G.O.A.T.
A
AllCourtHeathen
Guest
Mr.Lob
G.O.A.T.
The eye test says Berdych's wife is just as hot as Roddick's. Everything else is inconsequential.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
Head to head is 6-4 in Roddicks favour with one Berdych mid match retirement thrown into the mix.
Berdych is 6-16 against Federer and Roddick is 3-20 against Federer.
Achievements aside, their general level of play is closer than you care to admit.
Berdych is 6-16 against Federer and Roddick is 3-20 against Federer.
Achievements aside, their general level of play is closer than you care to admit.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Using a single h2h to determine their level of play? Nevermind that most of Roddick's matches came against a much better Federer
Berdych isn't far off the Roddick of some years, but he's miles off Roddick when he was peaking.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
Using a single h2h to determine their level of play? Nevermind that most of Roddick's matches came against a much better Federer
Berdych isn't far off the Roddick of some years, but he's miles off Roddick when he was peaking.
The premise of your argument, and you are not alone, is that you see it as set in stone that so-called 'Peak Federer's' years were such and such. As interesting as that is, it is ultimately an unprovable concept. It's no different from any of the other 'hypothetical match up discussions'.
The fact that Roddick' success was extremely front loaded and since 06 pretty much did nothing (besides his W run in 09) is revealing.
At least we can allow ourselves a wry chuckle when we acknowledge that 'Peak Roddick' and 'Peak Hewitt' melted into the plexicushion when 'Peak Federer' made his appearance.
Checkmate
Legend
Why don't you mention their H2H with Novak ?
NatF
Bionic Poster
So you don't think Federer's best and most consistent play came in 04-07?
You more speak the more it becomes obvious you didn't watch tennis back in those years or that you're just willfully ignorant.
Hewitt became chronically injured with multiple surgeries from 05 onwards, but if you watched tennis back then you'd know that.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
For obvious reasons, such as it being statistically less conclusive and the paucity of matches post 2011 when so called 'Peak Novak' showed up. The Federer h2h does at least span the lions share of both players careers.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
No, I think Federer declined post 2012. Even then we can say Federer still managed to play some top level tennis in 14 and 15, though granted without the same level of consistency.
Am I to conclude that a 'wilfully ignorant' person is someone who doesn't agree with you?
mike danny
Bionic Poster
How did Hewitt manage to have such a good 2005 year, especially in the slams, if he was chronically injured?
Bender
G.O.A.T.
NatF
Bionic Poster
No, a willfully ignorant person is someone who spouts nonsense without the faintest clue or bothering to look up Hewitt's circumstances post 2005
The disagreement isn't the issue, it's the blatant lack of understanding of the players and timeframe. I think Federer was roughly prime from 03-12, but his clearly best period of play was 04-07 and he was obviously quite bad in parts of 08 and 2010 for example. The fact is Roddick's game nosedived after 2004, he changed up his game and was barely ever in the top 5 after that. If you think it was just the field getting stronger in 2006 then again I question whether you witnessed tennis in those days? I think 2006 had quite a deep top 20 with young players like Murray, Djokovic, Berdych and Gasquet coming up - but the top 10 suffered with injuries to Hewitt, Agassi and Roddick's slump (he left the top 10 for a little while). When a player falls so quickly after being near the top for a few years I tend to think it's not just the entire field leaping forwards.
Berdych is clearly better than Roddick on clay but that's it;
Look at their records on HC against the top 5 and top 10 for their careers;
Berdych is 33-79 (29%) against the top 10 and 14-52 (21%) against the top 5.
Roddick is 35-50 (41%) against the top 10 and 21-36 (37%) against the top 5.
When both were top 10;
Berdych is 24-54 (31%) against the top 10 and 9-40 (18%) against the top 5.
Roddick is 29-36 (45%) against the top 10 and 15-26 (37%) against the top 5.
Pretty obvious that Roddick has performed better here.
Finally this is how Roddick did when ranked top 5;
Roddick is 17-19 (47%) against the top 10 and 8-12 (40%) against the top 5.
Berdych is 1-5 (17%) against top 10 opponents and 0-3 (0%) against the top 5.
His first surgery came at some point in 2005, obviously it got worse after.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
His first surgery came in the spring of 2005 or so. Probably at some point during the clay season.No, a willfully ignorant person is someone who spouts nonsense without the faintest clue or bothering to look up Hewitt's circumstances post 2005
I think Federer was roughly prime from 03-12, but his clearly best period of play was 04-07 and he was obviously quite bad in parts of 08 and 2010 for example. The fact is Roddick's game nosedived after 2004, he changed up his game and was barely ever in the top 5 after that. If you think it was just the field getting stronger in 2006 then again I question whether you witnessed tennis in those days? I think 2006 had quite a deep top 20 with young players like Murray, Djokovic, Berdych and Gasquet coming up - but the top 10 suffered with injuries to Hewitt, Agassi and Roddick's slump (he left the top 10 for a little while). When a player falls so quickly after being near the top for a few years I tend to think it's not just the entire field leaping forwards.
Berdych is clearly better than Roddick on clay but that's it;
Look at their records on HC against the top 5 and top 10 for their careers;
Berdych is 33-79 (29%) against the top 10 and 14-52 (21%) against the top 5.
Roddick is 35-50 (41%) against the top 10 and 21-36 (37%) against the top 5.
When both were top 10;
Berdych is 24-54 (31%) against the top 10 and 9-40 (18%) against the top 5.
Roddick is 29-36 (45%) against the top 10 and 15-26 (37%) against the top 5.
Pretty obvious that Roddick has performed better here.
Finally this is how Roddick did when ranked top 5;
Roddick is 17-19 (47%) against the top 10 and 8-12 (40%) against the top 5.
Berdych is 1-5 (17%) against top 10 opponents and 0-3 (0%) against the top 5.
His first surgery came at some point in 2005, obviously it got worse after.
But he was still pretty solid as evidenced by his runs at Wimb, USO (where he gave Fed a pretty tight match) and even Cincy.
It was probably after his second surgery in October that things went downhill, right?
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Isn't this a question for the LAYDEEZ?
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
No, a willfully ignorant person is someone who spouts nonsense without the faintest clue or bothering to look up Hewitt's circumstances post 2005
I think Federer was roughly prime from 03-12, but his clearly best period of play was 04-07 and he was obviously quite bad in parts of 08 and 2010 for example. The fact is Roddick's game nosedived after 2004, he changed up his game and was barely ever in the top 5 after that. If you think it was just the field getting stronger in 2006 then again I question whether you witnessed tennis in those days? I think 2006 had quite a deep top 20 with young players like Murray, Djokovic, Berdych and Gasquet coming up - but the top 10 suffered with injuries to Hewitt, Agassi and Roddick's slump (he left the top 10 for a little while). When a player falls so quickly after being near the top for a few years I tend to think it's not just the entire field leaping forwards.
Berdych is clearly better than Roddick on clay but that's it;
Look at their records on HC against the top 5 and top 10 for their careers;
Berdych is 33-79 (29%) against the top 10 and 14-52 (21%) against the top 5.
Roddick is 35-50 (41%) against the top 10 and 21-36 (37%) against the top 5.
When both were top 10;
Berdych is 24-54 (31%) against the top 10 and 9-40 (18%) against the top 5.
Roddick is 29-36 (45%) against the top 10 and 15-26 (37%) against the top 5.
Pretty obvious that Roddick has performed better here.
Finally this is how Roddick did when ranked top 5;
Roddick is 17-19 (47%) against the top 10 and 8-12 (40%) against the top 5.
Berdych is 1-5 (17%) against top 10 opponents and 0-3 (0%) against the top 5.
His first surgery came at some point in 2005, obviously it got worse after.
I think the short answer is that you are comfusing achievements with level of play.
Hewitt in both 2003 and 2004 had unremarkable results in the grand slams beside 1 runner up trophy (where he was almost humiliated by Federer).
Last edited by a moderator:
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Roddick is better on the eye test as well. Not that much, but if you could line up their performances from best for worst and compare from top to bottom one by one, Roddick would consistently come out superior.
NatF
Bionic Poster
It was definitely after the USO that it went really downhill. He wasn't quite the same player even at Wimbledon and the USO, though he raised his game against Federer.
Hewitt was ranked #17 in 2003, so no **** his results weren't great. As far as his results in 2004 go he lost to Federer in 3/4 slams (twice before the SF due to his seeding), if he had a better seeding he would have surely gone deeper and achieved more - he ended 2004 ranked #3. If you're trying to showcase your ignorance you're doing a bang up job I must say.
In 2004 outside of matches against Federer, Hewitt went 68-12(85%), including winning 45/50 (90%) of his other HC matches, he was 8-3 against top 10 players not including Federer - even going 7-0 against them, 7-1 if you consider Agassi from Cincy.
If you want to talk up Berdych that's fine man but you're talking out of your backside with regards to Roddick and Hewitt, especially Hewitt.
I'm not the confused one here, I'm actually aware of what happened during the careers of these players.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Do you think he would have won one of Wimb or USO in 2005 without Fed?
Had Fed been on the opposite side of the draw, I could see Hewitt reaching both finals.
NatF
Bionic Poster
I'm certain Hewitt would have made the finals of Wimbledon back to back in 2004, likewise the USO in those years. I think he'd win the USO in 2005 with no Federer, Wimbledon is a maybe.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
With the way Roddick was playing in the 2005 final, I would still favor Hewitt.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Roddick would probably played better if it wasn't Federer in the final. I think Hewitt had the edge mentally at that point thanks to those beatings at the end of 04 and beginning of 05 but Roddick could raise his level on grass.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
No, I think it is you who appears to be building a compelling case that Hewitt is also Berdych's equal! Berdych was at least able to take out Federer in two GS quarter finals.
If there was ever a player to deserve the moniker 'transitional champion' thrust upon his shoulders, it was Hewitt.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
Dressing up conjecture as a certainty...now that I would describe as 'wilful ignorance'.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
Folks forget Roddick at his best years was extremely difficult to break.
Berdych gets broken the moment the set score is 4-4
Berdych gets broken the moment the set score is 4-4
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Apples and oranges, my friend.
The Federer whom Berdych beat was not the same as the Federer whom Hewitt faced.
The Federer of Wimb 2010 especially was so bad he should have lost in the 1st round.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Not a certainty, but I would back 2005 Hewitt to win a slam any day over Berdych, to be honest, who never showed he had the mentality to win a major.
tennisaddict
Bionic Poster
I have to remind you that Fed was Hewitt's pigeon before Fed turned it around.
Have you watched Hewitt's matches between 2000-05 with Pete, Agassi, Fed ? He was an extremely good player with solid groundstrokes.
NatF
Bionic Poster
2010 and 2012 Federer?
Federer was crap in that Wimbledon 2010 match and nearly lost to Falla in the first round, Hewitt actually handed Federer a defeat in Halle just before Federer's level in 2012 clearly dropped around the time of the USO as well, rigours of a long season I suspect. You think he was on the same level as in 04-5?In Hewitt's 4 best years 01-02 and 04-05 he went 33-22 against the top 10, when Bendych puts together a run like that let me know.
I said I'm certain, didn't say it was a fact - the 'I' shows it's an opinion. At this point you're just coming across as an idiot - sorry to tell you that mate.
And yeah I think it's very likely Hewitt would have beaten Nalbandian at the USO 2005 (he wasn't in good form) and Grosjean at Wimbledon in 2004 + Gonzalez/Ferrero in 2005.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
2010 and 2012 Federer?
In Hewitt's 4 best years 01-02 and 04-05 he went 33-22 against the top 10, when Bendych puts together a run like that let me know.
I said I'm certain, didn't say it was a fact - the 'I' shows it's an opinion. At this point you're just coming across as an idiot - sorry to tell you that mate.
And yeah I think it's very likely Hewitt would have beaten Nalbandian at the USO 2005 (he wasn't in good form) and Grosjean at Wimbledon in 2004 + Gonzalez/Ferrero in 2005.
I get it, Federer is always to blame rather than good play from Berdych!
Now if you are going to play that game as Federer being the 'constant', you do need to take the Federer h2h against Berdych and Roddick as revealing their respective levels of play. Unless you of your course wish to 'rationalise' Federer's six losses against Berdych and Roddick's 20 losses against Federer.
The fact you are 'certain' about your conjectures reveals if nothing more, your arrogance.
Checkmate
Legend
Roddick's Super Servebot + Pusher combo meant that every point had to be earned.
Berdych gifts every second point on a silver platter to the 'Top' Players.
Similar threads
- Deleted member 733170
- General Pro Player Discussion
