The eye test: was it a thing before 2015?

[Biotic]

Of course it was, in tennis and all other sports basically. I'd actually say "stats! wanking" is a more recent phenomenon.

Maybe you didn't read the OP and what followed. I was asking about this forum only. You're here since 2007, maybe you know.

Was "the eye test" argument as important then as it is now on this forum? Was it used frequently as the trump card back in the day like it is nowdays, instead of other criteria such as titles, finals and other stuff?

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Maybe you didn't read the OP and what followed. I was asking about this forum only. You're here since 2007, maybe you know.

Was "the eye test" argument as important then as it is now on this forum? Was it used frequently as the trump card back in the day like it is nowdays, instead of other criteria such as titles, finals and other stuff?

Which is better, the eye test argument or the weak era argument?

 

[zagor]

Maybe you didn't read the OP and what followed. I was asking about this forum only. You're here since 2007, maybe you know.

Was "the eye test" argument as important then as it is now on this forum? Was it used frequently as the trump card back in the day like it is nowdays, instead of other criteria such as titles, finals and other stuff?

Yeah, I remember Pete fans using 1999 Wimbledon final pretty often for example, to showcase he's better than Fed who was on fast track to pass a number of his records and similar. Most of the arguments used now were also the norm back then, except the stats obsession. You just didn't have so many dudes with excel sheets and ELO ratings that I recall.

 

[Biotic]

Which is better, the eye test argument or the weak era argument?

Weak era argument is derived from the eye test argument, is it not?

 

[Biotic]

Yeah, I remember Pete fans using 1999 Wimbledon final pretty often for example, to showcase he's better than Fed who was on fast track to pass a number of his records and similar. Most of the arguments used now were also the norm back then, except the stats obsession. You just didn't have so many dudes with excel sheets and ELO ratings that I recall.

Nice info.

History repeats itself, it seems.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Weak era argument is derived from the eye test argument, is it not?

Not necessarily. See zagor's example. Agassi is an ATG (fact) + Pete beat him in straight sets, three breaks to none (fact) -> it was a greater/more impressive showing that Federer beating 06 Nadal in 4 sets / edging 07 Nadal in 5 sets, and obviously more impressive than Federer beating non-ATG Roddick LOL (plus, Agassi was already a WB champ while Nadal was a grass baby ROFLMAO) -> Sampras peak > Federer peak on grass (conjecture lol).

 

[Biotic]

Not necessarily. See zagor's example. Agassi is an ATG (fact) + Pete beat him in straight sets, three breaks to none (fact) -> it was a greater/more impressive showing that Federer beating 06 Nadal in 4 sets / edging 07 Nadal in 5 sets, and obviously more impressive than Federer beating non-ATG Roddick LOL (plus, Agassi was already a WB champ while Nadal was a grass baby ROFLMAO) -> Sampras peak > Federer peak on grass (conjecture lol).

That's another oversimplified way to look at it. I don't see how a single match can decide if the era was weak. Even peak A > peak B is laughable the way you put it.

 

[The Green Mile]

The good ol' eye test

 

[ForehandRF]

Not necessarily. See zagor's example. Agassi is an ATG (fact) + Pete beat him in straight sets, three breaks to none (fact) -> it was a greater/more impressive showing that Federer beating 06 Nadal in 4 sets / edging 07 Nadal in 5 sets, and obviously more impressive than Federer beating non-ATG Roddick LOL (plus, Agassi was already a WB champ while Nadal was a grass baby ROFLMAO) -> Sampras peak > Federer peak on grass (conjecture lol).

Agassi was such a beast on grass anyway, no ?

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

Agassi was such a beast on grass anyway, no ?

Arguably higher peak than Roddick, Hewitt and Murray.

 

[ForehandRF]

Arguably higher peak than Roddick, Hewitt and Murray.

Murray should be in front imo.

 

[mike danny]

Arguably higher peak than Roddick, Hewitt and Murray.

His Wimb win in 1992 was pretty impressive.

 

[ForehandRF]

His Wimb win in 1992 was pretty impressive.

The problem is that if the win against Ivanisevic was impressive, then Fed's wins against Roddick are also impressive.

 

[AnOctorokForDinner]

The problem is that if the win against Ivanisevic was impressive, then Fed's wins against Roddick are also impressive.

Ivanisevic was a better grasscourter though

 

[mike danny]

Ivanisevic was a better grasscourter though

Even so, Roddick pushed Fred the hardest after Nadal and Djokovic.

 

[Poisoned Slice]

The good ol' eye test

 

[ForehandRF]

Ivanisevic was a better grasscourter though

Roddick just needed for someone to take out Federer though.It did happen after 2009, but it seems it was too late

 

[Deleted member 688153]

out of 100
allows for more precision

does it?

9.8/10

 

[Deleted member 688153]

the eye test is objectively and subjectively the best measure anyway

 

[PETEhammer]

Even so, Roddick pushed Fred the hardest after Nadal and Djokovic.

Is that really something to brag about though? I mean who else was there? Philippousis and Gasquet?

 

[Third Serve]

Is that really something to brag about though? I mean who else was there? Philippousis and Gasquet?

Muzziah

 

[PETEhammer]

Muzziah

Ah, I thought we were just doing '03-'09. After that it wasn't really "pushing" Fed since Fed wasn't on the top of the perch to be pushed off; he was desperately trying to crawl back up i.e. Fed is to Nole as Roddick is to Fed

 

[Third Serve]

Ah, I thought we were just doing '03-'09. After that it wasn't really "pushing" Fed since Fed wasn't on the top of the perch to be pushed off; he was desperately trying to crawl back up i.e. Fed is to Nole as Roddick is to Fed

lol

 

[PETEhammer]

lol

0-3 in finals tho

 

[Third Serve]

0-3 in finals tho

We’re counting elder abuse here?

 

[PETEhammer]

We’re counting elder abuse here?

Fed from 2014 on, a.k.a. peak Fed