Nadal Playng the Best Clay Court Tennis of His Life?
Raining hopes
Hall of Fame
Every knows the real objective fact
Federer and Nadal <<<<<<<< Pablo Current Busta as a junior.
So why further Fedal wars?
Also after much research it has been found that: Rafa 2009> all other versions of Nadal
Therefore Soderling on clay>>Nadal
But Federer beat Soderling in the final
Therefore Federer at RG>>>>Nadal
Q.E.D
But Pablo Carreno Busta at the age of 15>>>>Federer 2006,2009,2015,2014 ..you get the gist
Also Zverev,Thiem,Kyrgios, tomic>>>>Pablo at fifteen
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True, as his competition today is barely average, or less.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Agree with this. He's more offensive now because he has to make up for lost speed. He might be hitting the ball offensively on clay as well as he ever has, but he can't defend all day anymore so he finds more reason to be aggressive.
Julian Houston
Semi-Pro
On clay best game is stand behind and play defensive. This is why Federer beat 2011 Nole in RG, Federer stand behind the baseline while Djokovic very aggressive in that match.
Base on this logic offensive Nadal not the best in clay. 2008 Nadal best.
Base on this logic offensive Nadal not the best in clay. 2008 Nadal best.
Im(moral) Winner
G.O.A.T.
You've got your PCBs, ARVs, Cuevases, Mayers, Thiems, Delbonises, Schwartzmans
Druss
Hall of Fame
Good grief!
Tennisgods
Hall of Fame
Agreed. He’s playing insanely well, he’ll prove it’s his highest level ever by sweeping the clay for the first time. I think he’ll carry it through to grass this year too, he’s playing that well and loads of belief...
zagor
Bionic Poster
It's a HC era, for all the the talk about clay having such tremendous depth because it's such a common surface, for how many of the top 20 players it's a surface of preference? There's Thiem obviously and eh, Busta and Fognini? That's about it really.
Of course people around here honestly believe that Guga would somehow suffer the same fate as Goffin or Tsitsipas or whomever against Nadal if he was in prime today.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
I heard that part so many times and never materialized.
Hawaiian grip
Professional
Why do people act as if he hadn’t been playing very well at Wimbledon last year? He was taken out in a very close match when he played his worst match of the tournament. For the most part he looked much better than he had at Wimbly in a long, long time.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
Certain people don’t like to acknowledge the truth that Nadal has been unlucky in Wimbledon in recent years, in that he has run into a number of people red lining it.
abmk
Bionic Poster
He looked good against 3 guys who didn't play well. The moment he faced one guy playing well, he lost. That's why.
abmk
Bionic Poster
yes, he's been unlucky in 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2017 ...oh wait, maybe not ...maybe its that his reduced athleticism , being more passive has played a significant role in that.
abmk
Bionic Poster
yes, not in 2012, not in 2013 and not in 2017.
Druss
Hall of Fame
Those who say Guga will suffer the same fate are either blinded by their fanaticism of Rafa, or only recently started following tennis....either way it’s bollocks.
I’m not saying that Guga is better, in fact I consider Nadal the best ever on clay, but I firmly believe peak Guga is better on the red dirt than peak Fed/Djoker. So it’s not that hard to see if Nadal has someone like peak Kuerten around, I’m sure he’ll have a little less silverware and even one or two less RG titles.
justasport
Professional
Counting RG last year it will be 82 consecutive sets on clay for Nadal at the end of RG this year. I’d say it’s the best he’s ever played on clay
Hawaiian grip
Professional
With you guys every time Nadal wins his opponent didn’t play well.
I mean, come on now. You’re only fooling yourself.
D
Deleted member 716271
Guest
2008 was better but not by as much as some people say.
justasport
Professional
No it wasn't...he's never won even close to 82 sets consecutively before and as I said earlier at the end of RG this year that's exactly what it will be
justasport
Professional
this nadal on clay beats the 2008 nadal on clay is straight sets
mike danny
Bionic Poster
So do you honestly believe the guys who defeated Nadal would have defeated Federer or even Djokovic too?
abmk
Bionic Poster
there are plenty of times Nadal has won when his opponent has played well : Fed in Wim 08, AO 09, Rome 06
Djoko in Hamburg 08, RG 13, Queens 08
Verdasco in AO 09
Murray in YEC 2010, RG 11
etc. etc.
So cut the cr*p.
I said his opponents in the 1st 3 rounds at Wimbledon were not playing well because they weren't.
Deal with it.
Winners or Errors
Legend
WEAK ERA. Nadal is not playing his best clay court tennis. Old guys are old. Young guys are sheep. Rafa is the only wolf around. That's just on clay, but does it matter? He is stupendous, even past his prime.
graycrait
Legend
I have been watching pro tennis on TV since Laver/Rosewall era. Went to my first pro exhibition in Des Moines, Iowa back in 69ish, traveling 120miles by bus one way when I was 14ish. Mom said to my 1 yr older brother, "If you take your brother you two can go on your own."
I digress, I hope Nadal wins RG and no reason to believe he won't and I hope RF wins Wimbledon, but anything could happen there. What I want to see is the finals of the US Open - Nadal vs Federer. Plenty of time for all the rest to get sharper, fitter, better, but these two guys are playing pretty well right now and it would be nice to see them in prime form entertaining "Me!"
I digress, I hope Nadal wins RG and no reason to believe he won't and I hope RF wins Wimbledon, but anything could happen there. What I want to see is the finals of the US Open - Nadal vs Federer. Plenty of time for all the rest to get sharper, fitter, better, but these two guys are playing pretty well right now and it would be nice to see them in prime form entertaining "Me!"
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
2008 Nadal would kick 2018 Nadal's *** so much it's not even funny. He's facing complete nobodies at the moment.
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
I don't agree at all right now. Maybe true by the end of clay season...
Gary Duane
G.O.A.T.
Everyone else looks like nobodies when a player is zoned.
There is something horribly wrong with the grammar there, but I'm too tired to fix it...
mightyrick
Legend
2008 Nadal was superior and had far better competition. The reason Nadal looks so good right now is because there is extremely weak competition. I mean look at Federer's competition at the AO this year. Same situation. Immediately after he won, everyone was saying current Federer is better than mid-2000s Federer.
The field is weak. I'm not saying Nadal wouldn't still win if the competition were stronger... but it wouldn't look like these demolitions. Same for Federer.
The nextgen field is probably the weakest incoming field in the Open Era.
The field is weak. I'm not saying Nadal wouldn't still win if the competition were stronger... but it wouldn't look like these demolitions. Same for Federer.
The nextgen field is probably the weakest incoming field in the Open Era.
Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal of 2017-2018 would hit more winners and look the better player to many, but would lose to the Nadal of 2008. Older Nadal would be frustrated with younger Nadal's defense. 2008 Nadal would win in 4 or 5 sets and TTW experts would comment "the better and more talented player lost" in match threads.
TennisFan3
Talk Tennis Guru
I couldn't agree more. It is like saying Federer of 2017/2018 at AO/Wimbledon is the best ever Federer. It's not even close to his peak/prime.
Nadal in 2008 was a beast. His movement, anticipation and speed then are not even comparable. I always thought that Rafa's forehand has declined to a large extent as he has aged. His i/o forehand (which IMO is his most potent weapon) was way more natural when he was younger and so too with the DTL.
It's funny how Fed and Nadal are similar in that respect. Fed too has improved his backhand. But even a simple eye test reveals that Fed doesn't move nearly as well on the forehand side, nor does he have the same penetration on his i/o, running forehand etc.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Can we get a comparative chart?
Here’s the info I’d want:
1) average speed on GS
2) average speed on first and second serves
3) percentage of service games held
4) percentage of return games won
5) percentage of points won against non Big 3 competition
Here’s the info I’d want:
1) average speed on GS
2) average speed on first and second serves
3) percentage of service games held
4) percentage of return games won
5) percentage of points won against non Big 3 competition
donquijote
G.O.A.T.
I think he just played a final against Tsitsipas if I'm not mistaken.
titoelcolombiano
Legend
The way I see it is that Rafa (and Fed for that matter) are not at their physical peak but their experience and years of game management skills are now being used to dominate opponents. The younger gens have the more physical body but they are being beaten by the tennis smarts of two ATGs.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
He’s going to lose a set in Madrid.
Meles
Bionic Poster
@Hawaiian grip
Its all very interesting when you think about it as Nadal still is very effective on clay and hard courts, but not grass. For some reason his game has not aged well on grass, yet Bendych and Feddy seem to love it in their dotage. I'm not expecting the pattern to change much, but with the right draw maybe Rafa could be waiting for Fedr in the final.
B
BrokenGears
Guest
No, no even close lol. People do n' t know how to play on clay at all. Nadal is facing mug opponents. Any version of Nole pre 2016 Wimby could take him easy.
justasport
Professional
Not going to happen mate
justasport
Professional
82 consecutive sets incoming for the king of clay by the end of roland garros
justasport
Professional
you heard it here first
Meles
Bionic Poster
This is valid in early 2018 clay. Thiem and Goffin are still getting their games back after injury layoff. Nadal was able to get a nice head start with Davis Cup. At this point Tsitsipas is an unexpected bonus. All three may be considerably better by RG and then you have a field. Its all pretty academic as Nadal has only been vulnerable in 2009 and 2011. (2015 and 2016 he was of course famously bad) Djokovic drained him in their famous 4 hour and 20 minute best of 3 Madrid SF in 2009. Djokovic has his number in 2011. Thiem torpedoed Nadal at 2017 Rome and that's arguably the worst beating given to prime Nadal on clay (2015-2016 does not count.) If things continue to go badly than this might be the worst competition, but does it matter if no one has ever given Nadal a tough match in the RG final?
Meles
Bionic Poster
My word, you are start raving mad.
Does it bother you that much that no one has beaten prime Nadal on equal footing at RG? At least Thiem outside of RG has given prime Nadal the worst beating of his career.Sputnik Bulgorov
Professional
First of all, you're assuming he will win Madrid, Rome and RG without losing a set. A red-lining Del Potro can definitely steal a set at any of those tournaments.
Secondly, Nadal won 81 consecutive MATCHES on clay from 2005-2007 beating superior clay players like peak Coria and peak Fed, which to date is still the longest single surface winning streak. I'd say that was even better.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Yep. Plus much better serving, backhand, and forecourt game.
