D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
But is Roddick a 'top player'?
But is Roddick a 'top player'?
Checkmate
Legend
For Berdych, ofcourse.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Did I say Berdych didn't play well? That doesn't mean Federer was anything more than utter dogshit though.
I'm playing the game as Federer being the constant? Isn't that you as you're comparing their h2h's with Roger?
The hypocrisy from you is just astounding at this point, you excuse the Roddick vs Djokovic h2h because Djokovic hadn't hit his peak yet, but you won't acknowledge any similar arguments for the Berdych and Federer h2h?
Keep those double standards coming. Roddick straight setted Berdych at Wimbledon in 2009 BTW. How do you rationalise that? More hypocrisy I'm sure. Whether it's better to be a fool or arrogant is a topic for the odds and ends section
Checkmate
Legend
Did I say Berdych didn't play well? That doesn't mean Federer was anything more than utter dogshit though.
I'm playing the game as Federer being the constant? Isn't that you as you're comparing their h2h's with Roger?
The hypocrisy from you is just astounding at this point, you excuse the Roddick vs Djokovic h2h because Djokovic hadn't hit his peak yet, but you won't acknowledge any similar arguments for the Berdych and Federer h2h?
Whether it's better to be a fool or arrogant is a topic for the odds and ends section
Didn't Roddick beat Berdych for one of his Masters win in 2010 ? So easy for him.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Yes he beat Nadal and Berdych back to back to win Miami in 2010. Was never really the same after.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
If you want to believe that Federer played well at Wimb 2010 when he got breadsticked by Berdych (something even Nadal couln't do to Fed), then be my guest. If you want to believe that Berdych displayed such a high level that he was able to breadstick Fed, then go ahead.
If you believe Fed played well at Wimb 2010, then explain his 1R scare. Point to me other Wimb editions between 2003-2009 where Fed had such a scare.
Checkmate
Legend
He stunned Nadal in Indian Wells too that summer ?
NatF
Bionic Poster
Nah that was Ljubicic, Roddick did make the final of IW though.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
That was Ljubicic.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Of course he is. Certainly more of a top player than Berydch.
Checkmate
Legend
Had no business losing to Grandpa's coach though.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Ljubicic could play on HC, but yeah Nads season didn't really get going until MC.
Checkmate
Legend
No I was talking about Rodd.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Ah right, Roddick was the big favourite - lost in two tiebreaks. Can happen when playing big servers. Ivan had form for giving Roddick some trouble anyway.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
2008 was a so scary it was a horror movie!
Sysyphus
Talk Tennis Guru
Seems a funny objection to have in a thread you've made based on a completely untestable assertion.
In terms of results — in the sport of tennis, not the sport of H2H against Federer — Roddick did clearly better, so I would think the burden of evidence is greater for a claim that diverges from that.
That said, I think Donald Young is a lot better than Roddick on the eye test. Game just moved on and got infinitely more deep — prove me wrong, fellers.
NatF
Bionic Poster
If being a tool or not was important for tennis greatness than beautiful Rafa would still be #1.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Nah, Fed played miles better in 2008 than 2010. Berdych wouldn't touch that Fed.
Sicne 2003, 2010 was Fed's 2nd worst Wimb after 2013.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Berdych is probably easier on the eye than Roddick, in the sens that his game is more fluid. But that doesn't make him as good as Roddick.
mbm0912
Hall of Fame
One of my favorite Berdych moments.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Ironically that was the birth of Bendych, was it 17/18 times straight he lost to Rafa after
Time to have an eye exam pal.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Berdych is also a bigger crybaby than Roddick. Tomas "don't hit me with the ball or I won't shake your hand" Berdych. Or Tomas "don't compare me to Lukas Rosol" Berdych.
Meles
Bionic Poster
Poor Berdy. He's got better hard court points stats than Cilic, but no slams. Berdy is a choker.No, a willfully ignorant person is someone who spouts nonsense without the faintest clue or bothering to look up Hewitt's circumstances post 2005
I think Federer was roughly prime from 03-12, but his clearly best period of play was 04-07 and he was obviously quite bad in parts of 08 and 2010 for example. The fact is Roddick's game nosedived after 2004, he changed up his game and was barely ever in the top 5 after that. If you think it was just the field getting stronger in 2006 then again I question whether you witnessed tennis in those days? I think 2006 had quite a deep top 20 with young players like Murray, Djokovic, Berdych and Gasquet coming up - but the top 10 suffered with injuries to Hewitt, Agassi and Roddick's slump (he left the top 10 for a little while). When a player falls so quickly after being near the top for a few years I tend to think it's not just the entire field leaping forwards.
Berdych is clearly better than Roddick on clay but that's it;
Look at their records on HC against the top 5 and top 10 for their careers;
Berdych is 33-79 (29%) against the top 10 and 14-52 (21%) against the top 5.
Roddick is 35-50 (41%) against the top 10 and 21-36 (37%) against the top 5.
When both were top 10;
Berdych is 24-54 (31%) against the top 10 and 9-40 (18%) against the top 5.
Roddick is 29-36 (45%) against the top 10 and 15-26 (37%) against the top 5.
Pretty obvious that Roddick has performed better here.
Finally this is how Roddick did when ranked top 5;
Roddick is 17-19 (47%) against the top 10 and 8-12 (40%) against the top 5.
Berdych is 1-5 (17%) against top 10 opponents and 0-3 (0%) against the top 5.
His first surgery came at some point in 2005, obviously it got worse after.
Berdy has a particularly weak first return game on hard courts (not nearly as horrible as Roddick's, but plenty weak for a top player.) For his height a plenty weak serve game on the whole. Better than Murray for his career, but that's not saying much.
Berdy's doors blown off by the Roddick serve game.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Poor Berdy. He's got better hard court points stats than Cilic, but no slams. Berdy is a choker.
Berdy has a particularly weak first return game on hard courts (not nearly as horrible as Roddick's, but plenty weak for a top player.) For his height a plenty weak serve game on the whole. Better than Murray for his career, but that's not saying much.
Berdy's doors blown off by the Roddick serve game.
What matters is when you play those good first serve return points
Cilic got hot for a week and blew through everyone including Berdych.And yes Roddick's serve is a much bigger weapon than anything Berdych has, he gets so many more free points he doesn't need to worry about breaking so much
the green god
Professional
Gee, who would I have playing for my life? Roddick came to play.
Berdych? Mmmmm, not so much.
Berdych? Mmmmm, not so much.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
he was healthy until IW and he was playing the best tennis of his life from 04 Wimby to 05 IW but he had some foot problems I believe in the spring, had some surgery, skipped the FO, recovered in time for Wimbledon and USO but those two tournaments are basically all he did the rest of the year.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Roddick was sometimes vulnerable to the big servers...they took him off his rhythm and rattled him. Obviously the 04 USO QF is the best example.
Tennisanity
Legend
If peak Roddick had played the W2011 final instead of Berdych, Nadal would have only one Wimbledon to his name.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
And Cincy.
His level at Wimb and the USO was good enough to take those titles. Or at least reach the finals.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Roddick should never have lost that one. Was cruising in serve for the 3rd and 4th, won 28 or so points in a row on serve.
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
Bendych is probably better looking in terms of his groundstrokes but he's been embarrassing himself on the court for the last 2 years. He played reasonably well from 2010-2013 by taking advantage of the downturn in the games of the top guys, but he can't even do that now.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
Johansson played ridiculously well to his credit, especially when Roddick had chances on his own serve, but Roddick should have pulled that one out...didn't apply enough pressure when JJ might have gotten tense and played the very few opportunities JJ had on return very poorly. Shame...the Roddick-Hewitt semi might have been really good and would have maybe given us a definitive answer on a peak for peak matchup at the USO.
Hewitt put on a clinic in the SF though...he was in such tremendous form but Federer vaporizing every FH he saw in the first set of the final threw him way off as it would have done to pretty much anyone.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Johansson did play very well - no doubts there. Hewitt won 3 straight meetings peak for peak at the YEC, AO and IW, I think he had something to prove especially at the YEC. Tough to call.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
AO and IW gave us something for a peak for peak slow HC matchup although both matches probably could have gone either way...but for fast HC it's still a tossup. A very young Roddick, albeit playing very well, gave Hewitt a hell of a fight in the 01 USO, in form Roddick comprehensively dismissed a past-prime Hewitt in 06. 04 TMC and 05 CIncy are all we have peak for peak on fast HC and they split them.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Those AO and IW matches could have gone either way but I think Hewitt winning them both says something about their relative mental strengths during that period. Roddick had more confidence in 2004 though. Hewitt was playing more conservatively during the USO in 2004 than he was during the AO and IW. Sort of depends whether he'd up the aggression because I think Roddick was serving and hitting too big to just counter punch with him.
Neither 04 TMC or Cincy 05 were real peak for peak matches, the loser played below par in both. Roddick was a bit worse in his respective loss though I think Hewitt was also better in that match than Roddick was in Cincy.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
It's too bad that Roddick made the changes to his game and went into that epic tailspin from the 05 USO to 06 Wimby. Think of how amazing the 05 USO would have been with an in-form Roddick. We already had Blake, Ginepri, Agassi, Hewitt, Federer bringing the heat in that tournament.
He suffered some bad luck running into in form players time and time again in HC events in 04-05 and that probably led to an overreaction.
NatF
Bionic Poster
Yup, there was a lot of depth in 04-05 he lost to a lot of good players in the big events. Unfortunately his game never recovered bar isolated runs. But yeah the 2005 USO could have been even more epic.
metsman
G.O.A.T.
yup 04-05 was a great time in tennis. When many of those guys declined and 06 was a little weak but then Nadal/Djokovic immediately picked up the slack starting 07 and Murray followed. That's what tennis is supposed to be. We've had a 2.5 year weak period now with no end in sight.
NatF
Bionic Poster
I don't want to comment too much on right now. I do think 2006 is a bit underrated, weak top 10 but a very deep top 20 IMO.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
I think you're a complete moron if you believe Hewitt and Berdych are comparable. That's even more stupid than comparing Berdych and Roddick for God's sake.
PS - Hewitt took out Federer after like 50 surgeries in ATP 250 finals -- along with the fact he lead the H2H comfortably until he hit his peak.
PS2 - The Olympics in 2004 is a p1ss poor comparison if you're going to make one.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
If there ever was a poster to deserve the moniker "stupidest ever" it's certainly @YetAnotherFedFan.
D
Deleted member 307496
Guest
Does a bear sh1t in the woods?
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
Federer gave that match to Lleyton.
D
Deleted member 733170
Guest
You are the biggest joker here when it comes to Hewitt. You only just conceded that Murray was better than Hewitt at Roland Garros this year.
The 'eye test' confirmed Murray's superiority back in 2012.
FD3S
Hall of Fame
Sooooo I may have misunderstood the question - when I saw eye-test, I for some reason thought that meant how they actually *looked* as tennis players, and I was surprised when Roddick was leading because Berdych really does look more natural and free flowing when on court. He moves well for a big guy, can get easy, smooth power off both wings, and doesn't look quite as stiff as Roddick did at times. A new fan to tennis might very well easily think that Berdych was the superior player based on the eye test alone... only for that initial evaluation to get torpedoed straight to hell when they actually start learning about the game and the two players in question.
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