Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
Slams are more than a simpel two-week period. They are bigger than anything else, and exceed the temporal boundaries. Someone with your experience of watching tennis should know this by now.
Fedr 2009 vs. Djovak 2016
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Slams are more than a simpel two-week period. They are bigger than anything else, and exceed the temporal boundaries. Someone with your experience of watching tennis should know this by now.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Djokovic's 2012 and 2013 seasons might be equal to Fed's 2009, but Fed with 1 extra slam and 1 slam final has a case too. And also YE#1 (in the case of 2013).But if you only put emphasis on major wins you're not taking into consideration the player's results throughout the entire season. That's the part I disagree with.
Overall Djoker had the more consistent seasons, but I'm happy with Fed's 2009 anyway. Djoker had little pressure in 2012 and 2013 and that's why he was able to put together more consistent seasons than Fed in 2009.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
J'suis pas d'accord Gazelle. Just because the Slams are bigger than anything else doesn't necessarily mean they're everything else.
uliks
Banned
So Djokovic 2016 is better than Murray 2016 in your opinion? Not sarcasm just asking?
Personally i will always take 2 slam season (Djokovic 2016) over 1 slam season (Murray 2016)myself also, but seems that at this moment there isn't any debate going whatsoever, and everybody( fans, pundits, juornos) are in full agreement that Murray's 2016 was much more better than Djokovic's 2016.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
On the topic at hand Novak performed better in 2016 than Fed in 2009.
@Djokovic2011, if you want to compare Fed's 2009 with Nole's 2012 or 2013, I suggest you make a separate thread
@Djokovic2011, if you want to compare Fed's 2009 with Nole's 2012 or 2013, I suggest you make a separate thread
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Little pressure in 2012? Trying to back up one of the greatest seasons ever and you don't think he felt any pressure?!
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Oh right, the first crack at the Nole slam. I forgot.Little pressure in 2012? Trying to back up one of the greatest seasons ever and you don't think he felt any pressure?!
But I think breaking the slam record definitely involved more pressure.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
IIRC @vanioMan created a thread on it last year.On the topic at hand Novak performed better in 2016 than Fed in 2009.
@Djokovic2011, if you want to compare Fed's 2009 with Nole's 2012 or 2013, I suggest you make a separate thread
Gazelle
G.O.A.T.
Obviously. Murray at number one only highlights the weak era state of the tour, and maybe Djokovic' mental muggery. It's a disaster for tennis, I can only stomach it because he stopped Djokovic from inflating his record.
Murray at number 1 = uuurggh
So Djokovic 2016 is better than Murray 2016 in your opinion? Not sarcasm just asking?
Personally i will always take 2 slam season (Djokovic 2016) over 1 slam season (Murray 2016)myself also, but seems that at this moment there isn't any debate going whatsoever, and everybody( fans, pundits, juornos) are in full agreement that Murray's 2016 was much more better than Djokovic's 2016.
O
OhYes
Guest
Imagine yourself fighting so much with someone, that after countless temporary bans you receive permanent one. Then you decide to mimic account of that person you hate, just on another forum. And now you are living your life
That is the story of "17 6 302" or "Backhand of Doom" here known as "tenisfan3".
Tenisfan3
Professional
I agree with you brother. Federer is the third best player in 2016..all hail elo!
Current Top 10 Rankings GOAT Points assigned for The 2016 Season are as follows (Comparative chart to Roger Federer's 2016 season)
2016 60
2016 57
2016 17
2016 19
2016 15
2016 9
2016 9
2016 8
2016 8
2016 5
2016 4
But the YE #1 does that already.But if you only put emphasis on major wins you're not taking into consideration the player's results throughout the entire season. That's the part I disagree with.
If you want to look at players results throughout the season, you simply need to look at YE #1 and your job is done.
What that may not capture is peak levels of play.
JoelSandwich
Hall of Fame
Roger had tougher competition and also did consistently well the entire year. Also if they played each other at the 5 big events, Federer would win the majority.
AO: Not sure 50/50 Djokovic looked better, but Federer took peak Nadal too 5.
FOjokovic in 4/5
Wimbledon and Us Open Federer wins in 3/4 sets comfortably.
WTF: Federer wins in 2
AO: Not sure 50/50 Djokovic looked better, but Federer took peak Nadal too 5.
FO
jokovic in 4/5 Wimbledon and Us Open Federer wins in 3/4 sets comfortably.
WTF: Federer wins in 2
JoelSandwich
Hall of Fame
Djokovic*
Literally didn't mean to include
Literally didn't mean to include
6august
Hall of Fame
It's obvious that OP want to make a comparison based on stats, then Djo 2016 must be better than Fed 2009 if you think 2 MS > YE 1 and vice versa.
Otherwise, both 2009 and 2016 are great for them and their fans because Fed and Djo finally completed their CGS. However, both have dark moments they would want to forget. Fed should have won AO and USO final, Djo should not have stuck in off-court issues and dropped half a season.
Some could argue 2009 competition was tougher but keep in mind that Fed couldn't fulfill his RG dream without Soderling.
Tenisfan3
Professional
At least he had to beat Soderling, the man who beat Rafa. No one beat Rafa in the tournament Djokovic won and Djokovic faced no one on the level of that Del Potro or a Soderling. Murray was horrible and tired in that RG and was taken to 5 by mugs in the starting rounds. There's a good case for Djokovic getting lucky for not getting defeaulted for hurling his racket in the direction of a line judge.
6august
Hall of Fame
Yes, no one beat Rafa because he's already left before that when he knew he's in the same draw with Djoker. LOL Murray was horrible and tired when he crushed the defending champion in 4.
However, I won't waste my time for such topics as they have been discussed a thousand times before. I just want to reply the OP question: Both are special years for Fed and Djo despite very very terrible moments.
I rate them equal.
Mileta Cekovic
Rookie
Elo is perfect system when player is actually regularly playing matches. Elo has shortcomings when player is not playing as his/her rating stays the same, although player is not playing.
That is why Glicko and Glicko 2 systems are created (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system). They are in essence extension of Elo in order to address abovementioned shortcoming.
I plan to add weekly Glicko 2 ratings to Ultimate Tennis Statistics, but as usual, cannot promise when
.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic was better outside the majors but Fed was two sets away from a CYGS!
Plus Fed faced more interesting and varied competition in his GS finals.
Nadalgaenger
G.O.A.T.
Rafa the King
Hall of Fame
Nole's 2016 level was higher for the first part. Rog in 09 played a great OZ, lost a final he shouldn'y have. Went into a slump and came back in Madrid and RG. Ultimately he heavily benefited from his main rival being injured/absent at the part of the season in which he got his 2 slams. After that he lost another slam he shouldn't have and the final part of the year was poor. The level of competition in 09 was higher however and in terms of succes I'd choose Fed's 09 over Nole's 16.
uliks
Banned
Federer always faces more tough, interesting and varied competition here on TTW. Winning even when he is losing... The Federer GoatHouse...
In reality if we eliminate all the regular TTW subjective bullsh!tt:
Djokovic 2 slams+4 masters
Federer 2 slams+ 2 masters
Overall Titles: Federer 4 - 7 Djokovic
ATP YE ranking points: Federer 10.550 - Djokovic 11.780
So we have a pretty clean picture here, but then yeah, Federer in 2...
Bukmeikara
Legend
Obviously. Murray at number one only highlights the weak era state of the tour, and maybe Djokovic' mental muggery. It's a disaster for tennis, I can only stomach it because he stopped Djokovic from inflating his record.
Murray at number 1 = uuurggh
Connors was number 1 with probably weaker results than Vilas and Borg. Lendl was number 1 without a Slam title. Sampras first became number 1 without holding a Slam title. Rios was number 1 without Slam. Moya, Kafelnikov, Rafter were number 1 with questionable results. As it seems using this logic .. every era is weak
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
At RG, yes. At Wimbledon, debatable.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Federer did better in the Slams, Djokovic did better in the MS, overall it's pretty close, the only reason I give the edge to Federer was because the the top 10 was extremely strong back then unlike in 2016 which was average. I remember there were like 6-8 players who had a legit shot to win the AO in 2010.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Federer always faces more tough, interesting and varied competition here on TTW. Winning even when he is losing... The Federer GoatHouse...
In reality if we eliminate all the regular TTW subjective bullsh!tt:
Djokovic 2 slams+4 masters
Federer 2 slams+ 2 masters
Overall Titles: Federer 4 - 7 Djokovic
ATP YE ranking points: Federer 10.550 - Djokovic 11.780
So we have a pretty clean picture here, but then yeah, Federer in 2...
Top 10 in 2009 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>top 10 in 2016.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Fed was only 2 sets away from the CYGS in hindsight.
uliks
Banned
Subjective bullsh!tt! The same as the claim that Federer played 2 pigeons for his slam titles and that after May his biggest competiton at the top was 19-20 y/o Delpo! Irrelevant for this thread...
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
Lol talk about subjective BS.
I don't think there's anyone except for a few crazy Djokovic fans who think the top 10 was stronger in 2016 than in 2009. 2016 was all about Djokovic (1st half) and Murray (2nd half) with Wawrinka GOATing in 1 tournament, the rest were leftovers, Federer didn't even play, Nadal didn't even make a single QF in a Slam.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
There were about 6 yes. The top 4, Delpo, and Davydenko. but 2016 was barely different if at all. Only Nadal dropped out of the top 4 to be replaced by Wawrinka. So Djokovic, Murray, Federer, Wawrinka, and Nadal all had legit chances to win the AO before the tournament started, with Raonic being a dark horse.
uliks
Banned
Well i said it was subjective. The same as your top 10 in 2009>> top 10 in 2016.
Rafa the King
Hall of Fame
Don't think he played a better tourney than in 08 so that's way I said it
BeatlesFan
Bionic Poster
Obviously it depends upon the surface. Djoker 2011 was his highest-ever level, but 2016 was still outstanding. Still, 2009 Fed beats Djoker at Wimbledon and the USO-- Djoker takes everything else.
Lord Anomander
Professional
2016 was a terrible year due to the absence of Federer and Nadal. But I think Djokovic's level in the first half of the season was amazing. The semi-final at the AO against Federer was outstanding.
It's tough to pick him over Federer 2009 though, because 2009 had a stronger field and Djokovic clearly struggled with motivation and off-court problems in the second half of the season (also lost his #1 ranking because of that).
It's tough to pick him over Federer 2009 though, because 2009 had a stronger field and Djokovic clearly struggled with motivation and off-court problems in the second half of the season (also lost his #1 ranking because of that).
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
Fair enough, but we don't know what Rafa's form would've looked like at Wimby 2009 either. And I'd say Federer played a worse final in 2009 but up to the final it's close between 2009 and 2008.
Mazz Retic
Hall of Fame
The debate is what was the best year. The only way to come to a consensus is to leave out opinion on who had stronger competition or who played better as this can be argued to the death. Based on the statistics, I would say Djokovic had a better overall season. However, I agree with the poster earlier who suggested that for the first half of the year Djokovic had a better season and for the second half Federer did.
edit: This is a bit closer than I thought because of Federer's number 1 ranking at the end of the year. I still give the slight edge to Djokovic but it's damn close.
edit: This is a bit closer than I thought because of Federer's number 1 ranking at the end of the year. I still give the slight edge to Djokovic but it's damn close.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Tough to say. In terms of accomplishments, Djokovic won more in 2016 than Federer in 2009.
However, Fed has some things in his favor too. He reached all 4 slam finals and finished the year as no.1.
Also Fed competed against a harder field in 2009 than Djokovic in 2016. There were certainly more threats and stronger as well outside the top 2 in 2009, compared to 2016.
However, Fed has some things in his favor too. He reached all 4 slam finals and finished the year as no.1.
Also Fed competed against a harder field in 2009 than Djokovic in 2016. There were certainly more threats and stronger as well outside the top 2 in 2009, compared to 2016.
underground
G.O.A.T.
Channel slam + all 4 slam finals + YE#1 beats Djokovic's extra MS in 2016 as well as his single slam seasons.
Mazz Retic
Hall of Fame
genuine questions I have:
Do you think winning the Australian and French in the same year is less of an accomplishment than winning the French and Wimbledon? I.e is one slam better than another?
Do you think a major final trumps winning 2 masters?
I agree and acknowledged YE#1 is in Federer's favour.
Steve0904
Talk Tennis Guru
It's close because Djokovic has the edge in titles, but I think Federer just edges it due to finishing #1 and making all 4 slam finals.
And I don't know if I should put this next bit here because it will start something, but oh well. Here it goes.
A comparison of USO draws (not that Djokovic wouldn't have beaten any of these guys had they not retired, but the difference is pretty big all the same
R128: Janowicz vs Britton, edge Janowicz
R64: Vesely vs Greul, edge Vesely
R32: Hewitt vs Youzhny, big edge Hewitt
R16: Robredo vs Edmund, big edge Robredo
QF: Soderling vs Tsonga, edge Soderling
SF: Djokovic vs Monfils, huge edge Djokovic even in 2009
F: Delpo vs Wawrinka, let's call this one even so as not to anger too many people.
And I don't know if I should put this next bit here because it will start something, but oh well. Here it goes.
A comparison of USO draws (not that Djokovic wouldn't have beaten any of these guys had they not retired, but the difference is pretty big all the same
R128: Janowicz vs Britton, edge Janowicz
R64: Vesely vs Greul, edge Vesely
R32: Hewitt vs Youzhny, big edge Hewitt
R16: Robredo vs Edmund, big edge Robredo
QF: Soderling vs Tsonga, edge Soderling
SF: Djokovic vs Monfils, huge edge Djokovic even in 2009
F: Delpo vs Wawrinka, let's call this one even so as not to anger too many people.
Andy Murray Is Goat
Rookie
Awe there isn't an Andy Murray 1/2 of 2016 option
mike danny
Bionic Poster
The fact that those guys in the 2016 USO draw retired or withdrew makes a big difference. Federer's weakest slam draw (AO 2006) is still tougher than Nole's 2016 USO draw.
Regarding Delpo vs Wawa, I agree that it should be called even. However it must be said that I feel like throughout 2009 Delpo was a bigger more consistwnt threat than Stan in 2016.
E
Emperor of Belgrade
Guest
Australian and French is the rarest combo of all so maybe that should have the edge over the Channel Slam.
GabeT
G.O.A.T.
Why do we keep coming up with all these ad hoc statistics? The Channel Slam is a marketing gimmick, it has no extra value over any two slams.
And Nole has more than just one extra MS. He won two extra MS and reached one extra MS final.
Fed 2009/Nole 2016
Slam Finals: 4/3
Slams won: 2/2
YEC Finals: 0/1
MS Finals: 2/5
MS won: 2/4
Win %: 84/88
YE ranking: 1/2
And let's not forget that, by age, the comparable years are 2009 and 2015 (years the players turned 28) or 2010 and 2016 (years the players turned 29). Nole clearly much, much, much better in those years. Nole at 28 played much better than Fed at 28. Same at 29. Open question if that will be also true for 30.
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