Quitting ladies doubles

C

COCap

New User
Reposting because I really haven't heard much in response to my questions at the end:
Ladies 4.0 tennis: My partner who loves to play the net aggressively came in to poach. She hit the ball pretty hard but not at anyone and didn't hit anyone [it was a great poach shot]. The opponent said, "Please don't hit the ball close to me". How would you handle this comment, what is an appropriate response, does an opponent has any business making such a request?
My partner did not say anything to this opponent who had made the request. She backed off of the net. Shared with me her obvious displeasure and disbelief with what she had heard and then proceeded for the next hour and a half to not play her game (at all). She is a high level 4.0 and at best she looked like a 3.0 the rest of the time. She did not move from where she stood to hit a ball. If it came close, she swatted at it just to get it over the net and let the opponents put it away. Really close to 0% effort...basically quit playing. I, as her partner, had to try to go for anything and everything. Opponents started to only hit to me so that they could at least have a little bit of fun. My partner saw only 2 options: do what she did or totally quit and walk off the court. What is your opinion of how she handled this situation? Would any of you quit like this under these circumstances? Do you think she owes me, her partner, any kind of apology for her behavior? [She is not just a player playing social tennis with me as her partner, she is a good friend]
 
D

Deleted member 23235

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lol, been there.
for me it was in the public park with 3.0-3.5 guys in their 60's.
i was paired up with the weakest of them... so of course they were playing keep away from me.
at every opportunity i would try to poach and hit at the net man's feet.
after like 3, the old net guy threatened me, and said, "if you hit at me again, i'm gonna shove this racquet..."
stunned, i just walked away, with the other 2 begging and pleading for me to stay.
a week later, i'm back on the courts again, i see the old-dude-that-threatened-me, and he apologized after the other 2 guys (and spectators) explained, that i was playing proper etiquette tennis (ie. ok to hit at net man feet,... not head hunting, etc..)
we played again, i did not poach, i just hit drop shots :p (probably made it more competitive this way as well)

now, maybe i'll try to make a farce of it, like i'd ask them to draw, in chalk, a square on the court of where i'm allowed to hit to when poaching... then ask them to draw a similar region on my side for them to hit into... then ask them if "lines" of this region are good, then ask how hard can i hit into this region, then ask is topspin allowed, then ask if it applied to everyone, under what circumstances, etc...

if this was usta, just get the captains together to explain the scenario (always better to have a 3rd party bring logic to the conversation).
if club/park rec pickup game, just walk away and don't play with them again...
or if it's your only partner(s), then figure out something to work on (ie. drop shot poach)

these days, i find life's too short to play with idiots. i'd rather not play, (serve by myself, hit against the wall, go for a run, etc...) than deal with some of the idiotic behaviors out there. tennis is supposed to be an outlet, fun, exercise, etc... there are ALOT of ways to accomplish that.
 
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C

COCap

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nytennisaddict said:
lol, been there.
for me it was in the public park with 3.0-3.5 guys in their 60's.
i was paired up with the weakest of them... so of course they were playing keep away from me.
at every opportunity i would try to poach and hit at the net man's feet.
after like 3, the old net guy threatened me, and said, "if you hit at me again, i'm gonna shove this racquet..."
stunned, i just walked away, with the other 2 begging and pleading for me to stay.
a week later, i'm back on the courts again, i see the old-dude-that-threatened-me, and he apologized after the other 2 guys (and spectators) explained, that i was playing proper etiquette tennis (ie. ok to hit at net man feet,... not head hunting, etc..)
we played again, i did not poach, i just hit drop shots :p (probably made it more competitive this way as well)

now, maybe i'll try to make a farce of it, like i'd ask them to draw, in chalk, a square on the court of where i'm allowed to hit to when poaching... then ask them to draw a similar region on my side for them to hit into... then ask them if "lines" of this region are good, then ask how hard can i hit into this region, then ask is topspin allowed, then ask if it applied to everyone, under what circumstances, etc...

if this was usta, just get the captains together to decide the rules.
if club/park rec pickup game, just walk away and don't play with them again...
or if it's your only partner(s), then figure out something to work on (ie. drop shot poach)

these days, i find life's too short to play with idiots. i'd rather not play, (serve by myself, hit against the wall, go for a run, etc...) than deal with some of the idiotic behaviors out there. tennis is supposed to be an outlet, fun, exercise, etc... there are ALOT of ways to accomplish that.
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I like your ideas. They made me chuckle. However, you are not answering my questions at the end.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

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COCap said:
I like your ideas. They made me chuckle. However, you are not answering my questions at the end.
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IMO you did not read what i wrote, and infer the answers.... so here you go:

What is your opinion of how she handled this situation? -- since she's a friend, keep playing and don't try to hit shots that appear like she's hitting them at her... drop shots, lobs, etc... which sounds like what your partner did, but personally i'd still be aggressive just aim for center of the court or lob over the net person, etc...
Would any of you quit like this under these circumstances? -- since she's a friend, keep playing and don't try to hit shots that appear like she's hitting them at her... drop shots, lobs, etc... just need to play aggressively within that context
Do you think she owes me, her partner, any kind of apology for her behavior? -- since she's a friend, keep playing and don't try to hit shots that appear like she's hitting them at her... drop shots, lobs, etc... i try to accept my friends for who they are because usually their positives outweight their negatives. IMO you're being a baby expecting an apology. what is this, 5th grade? get over it - accept her as a friend (along with all her quirks), and let it go. none of us are perfect.
 
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C

COCap

New User
nytennisaddict said:
IMO you did not read what i wrote, and infer the answers.... so here you go:

What is your opinion of how she handled this situation? -- since she's a friend, keep playing and don't try to hit shots that appear like she's hitting them at her... drop shots, lobs, etc... which sounds like what your partner did, but personally i'd still be aggressive just aim for center of the court or lob over the net person, etc...
Would any of you quit like this under these circumstances? -- since she's a friend, keep playing and don't try to hit shots that appear like she's hitting them at her... drop shots, lobs, etc... just need to play aggressively within that context
Do you think she owes me, her partner, any kind of apology for her behavior? -- since she's a friend, keep playing and don't try to hit shots that appear like she's hitting them at her... drop shots, lobs, etc... i try to accept my friends for who they are because usually their positives outweight their negatives. IMO you're being a baby expecting an apology. what is this, 5th grade? get over it - accept her as a friend (along with all her quirks), and let it go. none of us are perfect.
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Hmmmm . ...I did read it all, just seems like you think the opponent who didn't like being hit as is my friend. It is my partner and friend who quit playing after the opponent said "Please don't hit so close to me." So my friend & partner quit playing. I was left to play doubles all by myself basically. She stood on the court and basically did nothing. So I'm asking was quitting an appropriate way to handle the situation, would you quit if someone said that to you, and do you think my partner owes an apology for quitting and giving up and not playing. We all drove 2 hours roundtrip to play indoors and paid good money to do so.
 
OnTheLine

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
No one is saying quitting was the choice They would make, but we all make allowances for people to be people with all their quirks and fallability.

No, your partner does not owe you an apology. She attempted to change her game to accomodate your opponent. It failed miserably. That is all.
(I agree with @nytennisaddict 's final point 100%)

Also consider, if there was video, are you 100% certain that it would play back exactly as you remember it? (Definition of partner doing literally nothing: never served, never returned, never played net, never played baseline, ever from that moment on)

Do you owe a deep apology to your partner on days when you don't play your best?
If you are playing with someone who is nursing an injury, do they owe you an apology?

Move on. Choose to keep your partner and friend, or choose to lose both a partner and likely a friend.

Or, play singles, no partners who ever need to apologize to you. (or that you can blame)
 
D

Deleted member 23235

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nytennisaddict said:
if this was usta, just get the captains together to explain the scenario (always better to have a 3rd party bring logic to the conversation).
if club/park rec pickup game, just walk away and don't play with them again...
or if it's your only partner(s), then figure out something to work on (ie. drop shot poach)
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if my partner was giving up...
i'd tell them i can't do it without my partner being aggressive... and to ignore the opposing team
i'd ask if my partner just wants to quit (walk off), and if they did, i'd support him/her 100%.
but if we stay, i need them fighting 100%, poaching at the net person again and again and again.

if my partner still wanted to fight but was intimidated by the other player, i'd ask my partner how he/she wants to change our strategy, and what they'd be comfortable doing... stressing that i can NOT play doubles without my net person being aggressive.

my partner/friend is there to have fun. if he/she feels uncomfortabe with confrontation, so be it... i'd probably end up being extra aggressive, and probably go after the net person more.

what did you say, when the opposing team said something? did you stand by and do nothing, and let your partner take the brunt of it? i'd have been in the middle of it defending my partner/friend/teammate. i definitely think the opposing team owes you and apology, but since when is it effective trying to convince someone they are wrong, so why waste energy on things you can't control.
 
OrangePower

OrangePower

Legend
COCap said:
Hmmmm . ...I did read it all, just seems like you think the opponent who didn't like being hit as is my friend. It is my partner and friend who quit playing after the opponent said "Please don't hit so close to me." So my friend & partner quit playing. I was left to play doubles all by myself basically. She stood on the court and basically did nothing. So I'm asking was quitting an appropriate way to handle the situation, would you quit if someone said that to you, and do you think my partner owes an apology for quitting and giving up and not playing. We all drove 2 hours roundtrip to play indoors and paid good money to do so.
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I responded in your other thread about this, but the bolded part is new info that you didn't have in the other thread.
So with that in mind, if I were your partner, I'd be kinda pissed off at whoever set the match up.
I mean I don't have a problem with giggles and laughs tennis, but I'm not about to pay good money and drive 2 hours for it. For that kind of time and money investment I expect a competitive match where everyone is trying to play to the best of their ability, even if it's a 'for fun' match that doesn't count towards anything.
Clearly the opponents were not of the same mindset, otherwise they would not be upset with your partner playing aggressively.
So in your partner's position I'd see it all as quite a waste of time and money. Giggles and laughs tennis is free at the local park.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
COCap said:
Hmmmm . ...I did read it all, just seems like you think the opponent who didn't like being hit as is my friend. It is my partner and friend who quit playing after the opponent said "Please don't hit so close to me." So my friend & partner quit playing. I was left to play doubles all by myself basically. She stood on the court and basically did nothing. So I'm asking was quitting an appropriate way to handle the situation, would you quit if someone said that to you, and do you think my partner owes an apology for quitting and giving up and not playing. We all drove 2 hours roundtrip to play indoors and paid good money to do so.
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I don't think @nytennisaddict or @OnTheLine mis-interpreted you. Like them, I don't believe your partner owes you an apology; that's being overly-sensitive. I would like it if my partner didn't give up but I don't control my partner. It was obvious she was uncomfortable but instead of trying to support her and maybe work out an alternative strategy, you took it on yourself to try and beat them solo which probably made her feel worse. If anything, you might owe her an apology.

In any case, if you're a resilient doubles team you can talk this over and agree on what to do in the future. it seems like you posted because you want someone to agree with your interpretation. I do not.
 
OrangePower

OrangePower

Legend
nytennisaddict said:
what did you say, when the opposing team said something? did you stand by and do nothing, and let your partner take the brunt of it? i'd have been in the middle of it defending my partner/friend/teammate. i definitely think the opposing team owes you and apology, but since when is it effective trying to convince someone they are wrong, so why waste energy on things you can't control.
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Agree with this. If you and your partner are expecting a competitive match, and then opponents gripe when your partner plays aggressively, I'd support my partner in either (1) continuing to play aggressively and competitively, or (2) just chill out, have fun, and throw good tennis out the window.
 
C

COCap

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OK well I did not hear the conversation, it was between my partner and one of the other opponents (the one who set this up). My partner would not want me to get aggressive and stand up to them for her. She is quite capable of that herself. She is the more competitive player. She is almost a 4.5. She dislikes social tennis (and you can see why). But she did desert me on the court. We did switch partners after 2 sets and she was my opponent and she played the same way (like a 3.0 with her feet glued to one spot on the court). I was embarrassed (since I brought her with me). She would not enter into any conversation with me on the court or on the drive home. She did have lots to say later and felt it was her right to play like she played. I do not ever quit; I always try 100% even if I'm down 5-0. So I just don't think she was justified to quit. If she wanted to quit, she should have gotten off of the court. I felt like there were other alternatives and I wanted to see if anyone out there agreed with me. But apparently not, you all must also think she was justified in playing like a 3.0, that I have no right to be pissed off, that she did nothing that should have caused me to be hurt, and that she has nothing to apologize about. I just don't like it when people do not try to do their best under whatever circumstances. We cannot control our opponents and we cannot control what they say or do. I advocate still trying 100% and playing one's best tennis anyway.
 
Moveforwardalways

Moveforwardalways

Hall of Fame
Was the opponent who requested to not be hit at a 4.0? That's a bizzzare thing for a 4.0 to say. Players at 4.0 normally have been hit with a few balls and do not fear the net. Something else must be going on?
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
COCap said:
OK well I did not hear the conversation, it was between my partner and one of the other opponents (the one who set this up). My partner would not want me to get aggressive and stand up to them for her. She is quite capable of that herself. She is the more competitive player. She is almost a 4.5. She dislikes social tennis (and you can see why). But she did desert me on the court. We did switch partners after 2 sets and she was my opponent and she played the same way (like a 3.0 with her feet glued to one spot on the court). I was embarrassed (since I brought her with me). She would not enter into any conversation with me on the court or on the drive home. She did have lots to say later and felt it was her right to play like she played. I do not ever quit; I always try 100% even if I'm down 5-0. So I just don't think she was justified to quit. If she wanted to quit, she should have gotten off of the court. I felt like there were other alternatives and I wanted to see if anyone out there agreed with me. But apparently not, you all must also think she was justified in playing like a 3.0, that I have no right to be pissed off, that she did nothing that should have caused me to be hurt, and that she has nothing to apologize about. I just don't like it when people do not try to do their best under whatever circumstances. We cannot control our opponents and we cannot control what they say or do. I advocate still trying 100% and playing one's best tennis anyway.
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You didn't read what I wrote: "I would like it if my partner didn't give up but I don't control my partner."

I never wrote that she was justified playing like a 3.0 [if that indeed is what she did]. I think you two should have worked out an alternative. If it's clear that nothing you say or do will reverse her behavior, then you adapt or you don't.

It was a tough situation and neither of you handled it all that well, IMO. You have the right to your feelings as she does to hers.

As I wrote, if you are a resilient team, you will talk about it and come up with a future strategy. If word gets around how to beat your almost 4.5 friend, she won't be almost 4.5 for long.

I agree that I try to always give it my all but I'm sure there have been times when that wasn't true.
 
OrangePower

OrangePower

Legend
COCap said:
OK well I did not hear the conversation, it was between my partner and one of the other opponents (the one who set this up). My partner would not want me to get aggressive and stand up to them for her. She is quite capable of that herself. She is the more competitive player. She is almost a 4.5. She dislikes social tennis (and you can see why). But she did desert me on the court. We did switch partners after 2 sets and she was my opponent and she played the same way (like a 3.0 with her feet glued to one spot on the court). I was embarrassed (since I brought her with me). She would not enter into any conversation with me on the court or on the drive home. She did have lots to say later and felt it was her right to play like she played. I do not ever quit; I always try 100% even if I'm down 5-0. So I just don't think she was justified to quit. If she wanted to quit, she should have gotten off of the court. I felt like there were other alternatives and I wanted to see if anyone out there agreed with me. But apparently not, you all must also think she was justified in playing like a 3.0, that I have no right to be pissed off, that she did nothing that should have caused me to be hurt, and that she has nothing to apologize about. I just don't like it when people do not try to do their best under whatever circumstances. We cannot control our opponents and we cannot control what they say or do. I advocate still trying 100% and playing one's best tennis anyway.
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Completely agree with you about trying 100% and playing the best you can, but isn't that what she was trying to do before the opponents complained about her play? Maybe she should have continued playing her game anyway - definitely that was an option. But maybe not knowing the opponents, she felt uncomfortable about the whole situation at that point.
Here's an interesting one: What would you have done it her situation? Since you were actually there and all.
 
esgee48

esgee48

G.O.A.T.
Any one who plays doubles expect to have balls come close or be hit occasionally. Your friend should have asked them to back off the net if they can't handle the heat. The opponent 4.0 lady is an idiot to ask people not to hit at her. [And the request was out of line.] Even in friendly competitive matches, you should expect to have balls come whizzing by. Certainly should expect them in league or tournaments. If she made this statement during a match, she would be targeted because their opponents now know she can't or won't return the shots.
 
C

COCap

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OK well I did not hear the conversation, it was between my partner and one of the other opponents (the one who set this up). My partner would not want me to get aggressive and stand up to them for her. She is quite capable of that herself. She is the more competitive player. She is almost a 4.5. She dislikes social tennis (and you can see why). But she did desert me on the court. We did switch partners after 2 sets and she was my opponent and she played the same way (like a 3.0 with her feet glued to one spot on the court). I was embarrassed (since I brought her with me). She would not enter into any conversation with me on the court or on the drive home. She did have lots to say later and felt it was her right to play like she played. I do not ever quit; I always try 100% even if I'm down 5-0. So I just don't think she was justified to quit. If she wanted to quit, she should have gotten off of the court. I felt like there were other alternatives and I wanted to see if anyone out there agreed with me. But apparently not, you all must also think she was justified in playing like a 3.0, that I have no right to be pissed off, that she did nothing that should have caused me to be hurt, and that she has nothing to apologize about. I just don't like it when people do not try to do their best under whatever circumstances. We cannot control our opponents and we cannot control what they say or do. I advocate still trying 100% and playing one's best tennis anyway.
 
C

COCap

New User
OrangePower said:
Completely agree with you about trying 100% and playing the best you can, but isn't that what she was trying to do before the opponents complained about her play? Maybe she should have continued playing her game anyway - definitely that was an option. But maybe not knowing the opponents, she felt uncomfortable about the whole situation at that point.
Here's an interesting one: What would you have done it her situation? Since you were actually there and all.
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Well I already sent this to my partner, this is would I would have said (however you know I've had lots of time to think this up):
“Sorry, I do like to try to play aggressively and I do like to poach. I love to play the net. I am definitely trying to avoid hitting you and if I can get the ball to go exactly where I want it to go, I will definitely hit it further away from you. However, it doesn’t always go where I want it to go. I didn’t mean to scare you.” and then I would have continued to play and given 100% effort and not changed the way I play the net at all.
 
Cindysphinx

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Wow. So much drama over nothing.

1. This is social tennis, apparently with people you don’t know well. If they make the bizarre request that your partner not hit at them, then just raise your hand in apology and then ease up.

2. Friends don’t demand apologies from friends over nonsense. It is social tennis. If your friend decides to play like a 3.0, she can. Just play the balls that come to you and drive home after the match is finished.

3. I don’t believe your friend is near 4.5 if she cannot control the placement of her net shots.

4. I don’t believe your opponents are 4.0 if they get upset at an aggressive poach.

5. If you are a 4.0, then you should be able to have a nice social match if your partner doesn’t poach. Where are your ground strokes and approach shots?

6. If it really was that bad, then stop partnering with your friend if you can’t trust her to be mature and civil during social tennis.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru

Well I didn't think it was cool for her to play like a 3.0. I didn't ask her to join me at 4.0 tennis for her to play like a dork.
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That's a pretty lame attitude to have towards a doubles partner. So every time your partner doesn't perform up to your expectations, you tell her "I didn't ask you to play so you could play like a dork."? I mean, I play pretty crappy, below-level tennis at times. I don't need my partner piling on and pointing this out to me.

Ultimately you're a team. While it may feel good to vent on your partner, you're just hurting yourself insofar as doubles is a team effort.

This video is supposed to be satire but I can see myself in at least some of these situations:

 
T

tennis tom

Legend
COCap said:
We all drove 2 hours roundtrip to play indoors and paid good money to do so.
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COCap said:
I did not hear the conversation, it was between my partner and one of the other opponents (the one who set this up). My partner would not want me to get aggressive and stand up to them for her. She is quite capable of that herself. She is the more competitive player. She is almost a 4.5. She dislikes social tennis (and you can see why).
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Did you drive two hours to play indoors because outdoor courts in your vicinity were unplayable due to rain or snow?

Did your opponents also drive two hours to play indoors, or was it their home courts?
 
M

Max G.

Legend
I'm much more annoyed by your opponents. Making that request was clearly bad sportsmanship.

Your partner must have felt like they were between a rock and a hard place - play hard (and get labeled a bad sport for doing so), or play easy (and apparently get the same result). In a real (competitive) match, the answer is obvious - ignore what the opponents say and don't let them get in your head. But in a social setting, I can see why she thought the other route was plausible. I guess there's a middle ground where you play at like 75%, hard enough to keep the match fun but easy enough to let weak players think they're competitive. It's not easy doing that in doubles though.

By the way, since you said she doesn't like "social" doubles, she probably legitimately had no idea how to handle this situation. Let me read between the lines further - you said "I didn't ask her to join me at 4.0 tennis for her to play like a dork." Which means to me that YOU invited HER to this outing, she was new to this crowd? So she had no idea how to respond - did people want her to keep playing hard? Or ease up?

I'd say she probably expects an apology from *you* for inviting her to the kind of social match where someone asks her to take it easy...

I do expect this has done nothing to make her like social doubles.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
COCap said:
I'm not sure you have read how things went down. I said nothing to her about her tennis during the match. Trust me she tried to play at 3% instead of 100%. This is not a matter of her having a bad day and playing below-level tennis because she couldn't do better. SHE WAS NOT PUTTING IN ANY EFFORT.
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Maybe she picked up on your "you're a dork" body language.

Obviously, what the other team said affected her significantly. I've heard people falling apart when the opponent started blatantly cheating, for example. It's your job to try and pick her up out of the dumps. It's not clear from your post that you did.

Also, maybe something else was going on in her life besides this tennis match.

Ultimately, I think @texasleaguer phrased it best: matches are a dime a dozen but good friends are hard to come by.
 
C

COCap

New User
Max G. said:
I'm much more annoyed by your opponents. Making that request was clearly bad sportsmanship.

Your partner must have felt like they were between a rock and a hard place - play hard (and get labeled a bad sport for doing so), or play easy (and apparently get the same result). In a real (competitive) match, the answer is obvious - ignore what the opponents say and don't let them get in your head. But in a social setting, I can see why she thought the other route was plausible. I guess there's a middle ground where you play at like 75%, hard enough to keep the match fun but easy enough to let weak players think they're competitive. It's not easy doing that in doubles though.

By the way, since you said she doesn't like "social" doubles, she probably legitimately had no idea how to handle this situation. Let me read between the lines further - you said "I didn't ask her to join me at 4.0 tennis for her to play like a dork." Which means to me that YOU invited HER to this outing, she was new to this crowd? So she had no idea how to respond - did people want her to keep playing hard? Or ease up?

I'd say she probably expects an apology from *you* for inviting her to the kind of social match where someone asks her to take it easy...

I do expect this has done nothing to make her like social doubles.
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I had no idea this would happen. I have played with both ladies (not together) before. In fact the one who made the comment was on one of my teams this year and used to be a 4.5 not too long ago. So I didn't know, nor have I ever experienced this kind of a request from any decent tennis player...even at lower levels. I play social tennis a lot. Never heard anyone make such a request.
 
S&V-not_dead_yet

S&V-not_dead_yet

Talk Tennis Guru
COCap said:
I had no idea this would happen.
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I'm not blaming you for failing to anticipate this; I don't think anyone would have.

The issue is how you handled it.

I have played with both ladies (not together) before. In fact the one who made the comment was on one of my teams this year and used to be a 4.5 not too long ago. So I didn't know, nor have I ever experienced this kind of a request from any decent tennis player...even at lower levels. I play social tennis a lot. Never heard anyone make such a request.
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Have to talked to the woman who made the comment? Maybe she didn't like your partner and tried to use gamesmanship [it worked].

Admittedly, I'm grasping at straws. I have no logical explanation for the opponent's comments nor your partner's response.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
opponent was a 4.5?! this was epic gamesmanship then!! wow.

2h to play tennis? i️ guess that was the first mistake. i️ whine when i️ have to drive more than 20 min.

but if i️ did drive 2h, do i’m assuming it was some sort of serious match (usta, league, inter club, etc,...)... your friend is clearly not a fighter,... easily psyched out,... so i’d avoid playing with her for matches you care about. keep her on the speed dial for drilling and hit and giggles.

if my partner/friend bailed in a match on me,... i’d let it go during the match, and take the L. but if we got paired up again, i’d point out that i️ can’t have him give up on me or i️ prefer not to play with them in a match i️ needed to win. we’d still be friends and we’d hit and practice, just not play matches.
 
T

tennis tom

Legend
COCap said:
...who made the comment was on one of my teams this year and used to be a 4.5 not too long ago.
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Send a bill for your time, travel expenses, loss of friendship, to the snowflake who ruined the day for everyone. Never heard of a man or woman 4.5 complain like that--it's real 3.0 and below lady/metro men stuff. I once played against a couple of fat boy wimps at my club, who after the match bitched that I was hitting at them--I was stunned since I never intentionally hit at them--I lost total respect for them after that--it's only a fuzzy little ball ladies and gents. If someone is so afraid of being hit, they should wear body armour and a welders helmet, or take up croquet or bridge for exercise. People who are afraid of getting hit by the fuzzy little ball once in a blue moon shouldn't be playing tennis--most of the time that you get hit by a ball it's a ricochet off your own racket due to not being fully focused.
 
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Morch Us

Morch Us

Hall of Fame
Totally looks like a "ladies drama".

As many others had pointed out, your friend/partner does NOT owe you anything. You don't control her or the opponents behavior. So just think of what you could have done. Also what you could do in future. Those are under your control.

It does not matter whether you heard the conversation or not. You could have supported your partner, right when you noticed something, and then talk to her, and come up with a "team language" or agreement. It could be either 1) you both quit, right then and there, packup and leave. 2) you both play like 3.0 as a team 3) you both dis-regard the opponents statements and continue playing aggressively 4) maybe there are other options as well... What you failed to do is come up with the team talk or agreement and instead you let your partner burn by herself, that is not good partners do.

Whatever done is done, and the clear answer is nobody owes anything to anyone. But your future responses/attitudes towards your partners/opponents that day would decide how your friendships continue in future.


COCap said:
OK well I did not hear the conversation, it was between my partner and one of the other opponents (the one who set this up). My partner would not want me to get aggressive and stand up to them for her. She is quite capable of that herself.
Click to expand...
 
K

kevrol

Hall of Fame
As I posted on the other thread I'd have complied with her request and tried to work on other parts of my game, after all this was just a social match. Then I would no play with that person again.
 
S

stapletonj

Hall of Fame
deal with the opponents. You don't wanna get hit at? drop shot, lob, drop shot, lob, ad nauseum. a few points of that and you will be begging for the ball to be hit "at" you.

actually, a good 4.0 almost 4.5 should use it as a great opportunity to practice lob volleys...... But, as others have said, good partners are hard to find. Don't blow it by being pissy with yours.
 
T

TennisCJC

Legend
in a social situation, I would continue to hit my normal volleys but not try to hit them. I wouldn't have any problem hitting it 3 or 4 feet from them or even at their shoes. In a league or tourney match, I would try to completely ignore their comment and continue to hit the shot that gives me the best chance of winning. it is their responsibility to not get hit. if I have high volley or short overhead, they can run or turn their back. I do it all the time rather than get smacked. if they complained again in either a social or competitive match, I would explain I am not trying to hit them but just playing the high percentage shot and explain they should either run or reposition to the baseline. brad gilbert said the net player should turn and move to the alley rather than get hit. I once hit an errant overhead that hit a female in the head during a practice match. I am male. I felt horrible but it was a jumping overhead and I didn't have the best control. and, she didn't bail on the shot. she was actually running to cover my shot and was just beyond the service line. it happens. I had a finger turn black and purple after an opponent tagged my non-playing hand with a swinging volley - it hit right on the tip and turned by finger all shades of bruised and caused it to swell. it happens.

finally, if they are 2 levels below my level and the match isn't competitive, I would direct the ball away from them. but, if they have roughly the same skill level, it's their job to suck it up and play the game like it is supposed to be played.
 
T

tennis tom

Legend
COCap said:
Reposting because I really haven't heard much in response to my questions at the end:
Click to expand...

tennis tom said:
Send a bill for your time, travel expenses, loss of friendship, to the snowflake who ruined the day for everyone. Never heard of a man or woman 4.5 complain like that--it's real 3.0 and below lady/metro men stuff. I once played against a couple of fat boy wimps at my club, who after the match bitched that I was hitting at them--I was stunned since I never intentionally hit at them--I lost total respect for them after that--it's only a fuzzy little ball ladies and gents. If someone is so afraid of being hit, they should wear body armour and a welders helmet, or take up croquet or bridge for exercise. People who are afraid of getting hit by the fuzzy little ball once in a blue moon shouldn't be playing tennis--most of the time that you get hit by a ball it's a ricochet off your own racket due to not being fully focused.
Click to expand...
tennis tom said:
Did you drive two hours to play indoors because outdoor courts in your vicinity were unplayable due to rain or snow?

Did your opponents also drive two hours to play indoors, or was it their home courts?
Click to expand...

Looks like OP is incommunicado, off for another two hour drive to play a fun match--the big question we are all anxiously awaiting the answer to is whether she is still partnering with her "friend" the 4.5/3.0 chameleon? Or--maybe she has found a new partner, I would suggest trying the ex-opponent who doesn't like being hit at--maybe OP can become her defender if given permission to speak out.

Or, maybe OP is revising this thread again looking for new answers to this vexing dilemma--the trials and tribulations of being a co-cap on a traveling team--makes me want to grab a hopper of balls and practice my serve, or find a good garage door in my neighborhood to hit against.
 
Moonarse

Moonarse

Semi-Pro
WTF is happening here anyway? Doubles player at the net complaining someone hit a ball towards (or nearby) her?

This is utter ridiculous in so many ways that I can't even think of what I was supposed to answer in the first place... And yet you seem to be angry with your partner for the melting? Maybe she just lost her will to play the game and softened up after realizing she wasted 2 hours of her weekend in a car to play against a ridiculous crybaby.

In tennis you should be thankful people hit the ball in your direction... Maybe the other lady should go Iceskating or jogging, I don't know... but tennis is not for her.

PS. Worst case scenario you apologize for smashing a ball at someone's torso and life goes on...
 
Cindysphinx

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Moonarse said:
WTF is happening here anyway? Doubles player at the net complaining someone hit a ball towards (or nearby) her?

This is utter ridiculous in so many ways that I can't even think of what I was supposed to answer in the first place... And yet you seem to be angry with your partner for the melting? Maybe she just lost her will to play the game and softened up after realizing she wasted 2 hours of her weekend in a car to play against a ridiculous crybaby.

In tennis you should be thankful people hit the ball in your direction... Maybe the other lady should go Iceskating or jogging, I don't know... but tennis is not for her.

PS. Worst case scenario you apologize for smashing a ball at someone's torso and life goes on...
Click to expand...

Mmmm . . . I don't want to be age-ist, but there is more going on here than simply "ladies doubles."

OP's profile says she is 66 (back in 2015 when she registered?). Well, I'm 56, so I spend some time on the court with older female players. And there is definitely an expectation that people won't "play rough" in social tennis. I'm subbing for such a group now, and I really like the group and hope I get invited to be a permanent member next year. But I can assure you that if I hit aggressively at the opposing net player that invitation will not materialize.

Now, why did OP's partner react to this admonishment the way she did? Who knows? It would have bounced right off of me, honestly, but none of us know exactly what the opponent said or how she said it. OP says this is not the first time the partner has behaved poorly, so maybe she has issues. Well, I have had a couple of partners behave like nutjobs on the court, but it would never occur to me to demand an apology. In my case, I simply stopped playing with someone who was abusive to me during a match, and I began avoiding a woman who gets catty when we are losing. In both cases, I was able to preserve the friendship by sacrificing the partnership because the former is more important.

I still rather doubt that anyone on that court was 4.0 C nearing 4.5, though. My experience with that age group is that players are quite proficient with their placement, and OP's partner would not have hit the ball close enough to the opponent to cause concern had she possessed the control to place the ball elsewhere.
 
OnTheLine

OnTheLine

Hall of Fame
Ah @Cindysphinx I did not look at the potential ages. I am late 40s, and find that playing with women in their 60s is a whole new can of worms. I agree with you on control, typically, if they are playing at 3.5 many are former 4.0s and even former 4.5s with all the control in the world.
My favorite is hearing that I am "too aggressive" and yet the next shot comes straight to my head ... :)
 
Cindysphinx

Cindysphinx

G.O.A.T.
Ha! I got smoked this year by a 4.0 who looked to be in her 60s or maybe 70s. Oh, the control she had as she calmly walked to the net during the point. She could maneuver me this way and that until she felt the time was right to put the ball six inches out of my reach. She never finished a point by hitting the ball at me.

She, uh, didn't have to.
 
C

COCap

New User
Cindysphinx said:
Mmmm . . . I don't want to be age-ist, but there is more going on here than simply "ladies doubles."

OP's profile says she is 66 (back in 2015 when she registered?). Well, I'm 56, so I spend some time on the court with older female players. And there is definitely an expectation that people won't "play rough" in social tennis. I'm subbing for such a group now, and I really like the group and hope I get invited to be a permanent member next year. But I can assure you that if I hit aggressively at the opposing net player that invitation will not materialize.

Now, why did OP's partner react to this admonishment the way she did? Who knows? It would have bounced right off of me, honestly, but none of us know exactly what the opponent said or how she said it. OP says this is not the first time the partner has behaved poorly, so maybe she has issues. Well, I have had a couple of partners behave like nutjobs on the court, but it would never occur to me to demand an apology. In my case, I simply stopped playing with someone who was abusive to me during a match, and I began avoiding a woman who gets catty when we are losing. In both cases, I was able to preserve the friendship by sacrificing the partnership because the former is more important.

I still rather doubt that anyone on that court was 4.0 C nearing 4.5, though. My experience with that age group is that players are quite proficient with their placement, and OP's partner would not have hit the ball close enough to the opponent to cause concern had she possessed the control to place the ball elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Who is OP? I'm the one who posted. I'm COCap. My specific age is not important. Wonder where you see that info. Opponent player who made the comment, "Please don't hit balls so close to me" is almost 70 I think. She used to be 4.5 a couple of years ago. My partner who quit trying is 52. Trust me that my partner is almost 4.5 (rated 3.9998 on tennis record) and she hit the ball exactly where she needed to hit it with total control. It was a great shot!

Although this was social tennis and we were not playing at anyone's club, we did not expect to have to hold back on shots. It has never happened before and we have been playing lots of social 4.0 tennis lately since there are no league matches right now.
 
Morch Us

Morch Us

Hall of Fame
Well... that totally changes the dynamics of the debate. As long as these ladies were not earlier WTA players..
I can totally see a 70yr old, being threatened by shots of a strong 52yr old.
I can also see why a 52yr old stops trying, when asked by a 70yr old opponent (especially if others in the group, possibly closer to 70 kept silent).

I still think no one owes anything. But keep a balance on levels of play and age group. If you bring ladies from a different age group, keep the expectations clear as a group, so that no one feels out of place. And if the person does not fit in with others in the group, keep the friendship outside the court, and stop bringing her as doubles partner to the court.

COCap said:
My specific age is not important.
Click to expand...
COCap said:
is almost 70 I think
Click to expand...
COCap said:
My partner who quit trying is 52
Click to expand...
 
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AtomicForehand

AtomicForehand

Hall of Fame
COCap said:
Reposting because I really haven't heard much in response to my questions at the end:
Ladies 4.0 tennis: My partner who loves to play the net aggressively came in to poach. She hit the ball pretty hard but not at anyone and didn't hit anyone [it was a great poach shot]. The opponent said, "Please don't hit the ball close to me". How would you handle this comment, what is an appropriate response, does an opponent has any business making such a request?
Click to expand...

"Please don't hit the ball close to me"???

I have never heard of such a ludicrous request. "...CLOSE to me"??

I would have immediately tried to get clarification on this point. "How close is too close? Do you have a personal bubble through which no balls must pass, and what is its radius? Is hitting the ball ANYWHERE on the court allowed, or should we just hit all of our balls out? How do you suggest our side be allowed to try to win points...or is your team the only one allowed to win any today?"
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
AtomicForehand said:
"Please don't hit the ball close to me"???

I have never heard of such a ludicrous request. "...CLOSE to me"??

I would have immediately tried to get clarification on this point. "How close is too close? Do you have a personal bubble through which no balls must pass, and what is its radius? Is hitting the ball ANYWHERE on the court allowed, or should we just hit all of our balls out? How do you suggest our side be allowed to try to win points...or is your team the only one allowed to win any today?"
Click to expand...

Many older people, including men, get upset when shots are hit directly at them. They are rightly afraid of injury.

You can either be nice and play with them, or snub them and play with the pros who are obviously waiting in line for an opportunity to hit with you.

No need to be nasty.
 
AtomicForehand

AtomicForehand

Hall of Fame
sureshs said:
Many older people, including men, get upset when shots are hit directly at them. They are rightly afraid of injury.

You can either be nice and play with them, or snub them and play with the pros who are obviously waiting in line for an opportunity to hit with you.

No need to be nasty.
Click to expand...

But SureshS, the opponent didn't say "Please don't HIT ME with the ball" (which is actually a reasonable request). She said "Don't hit the ball CLOSE TO ME." Which is ridiculous. It's certainly not "nasty" to hit the ball "close to" another player...indeed, depending on what you even mean by "close," it's impossible to avoid in many situations.
 
S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
AtomicForehand said:
But SureshS, the opponent didn't say "Please don't HIT ME with the ball" (which is actually a reasonable request). She said "Don't hit the ball CLOSE TO ME." Which is ridiculous. It's certainly not "nasty" to hit the ball "close to" another player...indeed, depending on what you even mean by "close," it's impossible to avoid in many situations.
Click to expand...

Maybe she did not think much of her opponent's aiming control hehehe
 
D

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
nytennisaddict said:
lol, been there.
for me it was in the public park with 3.0-3.5 guys in their 60's.
i was paired up with the weakest of them... so of course they were playing keep away from me.
at every opportunity i would try to poach and hit at the net man's feet.
after like 3, the old net guy threatened me, and said, "if you hit at me again, i'm gonna shove this racquet..."
stunned, i just walked away, with the other 2 begging and pleading for me to stay.
a week later, i'm back on the courts again, i see the old-dude-that-threatened-me, and he apologized after the other 2 guys (and spectators) explained, that i was playing proper etiquette tennis (ie. ok to hit at net man feet,... not head hunting, etc..)
we played again, i did not poach, i just hit drop shots :p (probably made it more competitive this way as well)

now, maybe i'll try to make a farce of it, like i'd ask them to draw, in chalk, a square on the court of where i'm allowed to hit to when poaching... then ask them to draw a similar region on my side for them to hit into... then ask them if "lines" of this region are good, then ask how hard can i hit into this region, then ask is topspin allowed, then ask if it applied to everyone, under what circumstances, etc...

if this was usta, just get the captains together to explain the scenario (always better to have a 3rd party bring logic to the conversation).
if club/park rec pickup game, just walk away and don't play with them again...
or if it's your only partner(s), then figure out something to work on (ie. drop shot poach)

these days, i find life's too short to play with idiots. i'd rather not play, (serve by myself, hit against the wall, go for a run, etc...) than deal with some of the idiotic behaviors out there. tennis is supposed to be an outlet, fun, exercise, etc... there are ALOT of ways to accomplish that.
Click to expand...

I wanted you to do a double leg take down then arm bar from mount and crunch !!!

Doubles at your level is for men not schmendricks
 
D

dgold44

G.O.A.T.
COCap said:
Reposting because I really haven't heard much in response to my questions at the end:
Ladies 4.0 tennis: My partner who loves to play the net aggressively came in to poach. She hit the ball pretty hard but not at anyone and didn't hit anyone [it was a great poach shot]. The opponent said, "Please don't hit the ball close to me". How would you handle this comment, what is an appropriate response, does an opponent has any business making such a request?
My partner did not say anything to this opponent who had made the request. She backed off of the net. Shared with me her obvious displeasure and disbelief with what she had heard and then proceeded for the next hour and a half to not play her game (at all). She is a high level 4.0 and at best she looked like a 3.0 the rest of the time. She did not move from where she stood to hit a ball. If it came close, she swatted at it just to get it over the net and let the opponents put it away. Really close to 0% effort...basically quit playing. I, as her partner, had to try to go for anything and everything. Opponents started to only hit to me so that they could at least have a little bit of fun. My partner saw only 2 options: do what she did or totally quit and walk off the court. What is your opinion of how she handled this situation? Would any of you quit like this under these circumstances? Do you think she owes me, her partner, any kind of apology for her behavior? [She is not just a player playing social tennis with me as her partner, she is a good friend]
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Easily say I am sorry but this is how u play doubles
 
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