Very disappointed with Nadal
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weakera
Talk Tennis Guru
How did I contradict that? Are you impaired?
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
Yep; wrong footed so often in rallies that weren't much beyond neutral. This meant his positioning and speed often looked terrible. Nadal ended up being late to the ball so often that he threw up weak replies for Djoker to tee off on dragging Nadal from side to side, which is his bread and butter. He was in command more often than not, without having to do as much as he should have been made to.
veroniquem
Bionic Poster
The something "different" was Djoko across the net on his best surface. Matchups matter.
Now, Nadal could turn the rivalry around, why not, anything is possible in tennis but so far, the pattern that I see is:
Last 8 matches on hard court between Djoko and Nadal (2013-2019) = 8-0 Djokovic
Last 17 sets played = 17-0 Djokovic
# of sets where Nadal won only 1 game: 1
# of sets where Nadal won only 2 games: 5
# of sets where Nadal won only 3 games: 8
# of sets where Nadal won 4 games: 2
# of sets where Nadal won more than 4 games: 1
So the most common occurrence has been Nadal winning 2 or 3 games in a set when he's played Djoko on hard court (13 sets out of 17).
Now what? Nadal has been injured every single time he's played Djoko on hard since USO 2013??? That's what explains the consistency of the results??? Really???
Funny then how those same injuries haven't affected the scores the same way when they've met on natural surfaces... Hum, I wonder why
Actually, hard court is the one surface where Djoko already lead the head to head pre-2011. Not as lopsided as post 2011 (7-5 vs 10-2) but still... The trend since 2011 is that the matches when Rafa has done well vs Djoko on hard have been the exceptions to the rule rather than the norm. If that was not the case, Nadal would have won more than 2 matches vs Djoko (back to back in summer 2013) in the last 9 years or so.
netlets
Professional
He had a really weak draw. When he played the better players they were tired. Not his fault, but that's what happened. I believe he didn't know where his level was going into the final and it turned out it wasn't that high. If he had played Medvedev or a big hitter in the third round I don't believe on these courts he wins or if he does it's a long battle. Sometimes draws unfold and make it easy to get to the end for him but the lack of tough match play ends up biting you when you run into someone that is battle tested.
JustTennis76
Hall of Fame
Duckworth, Ebden DeMinuar, Berdych, Tiafoe, Tsitsipas. 3 Aussies in a row to get into the round of 16. Berdych is Berdych, Tiafoe was toast by the time he played Nadal and same with Tsitsipas. Can't blame Nadal for the draw but those are the guys he played before playing Djoker in the final. Maybe if Nadal had a tough couple of matches before the fianl, he could have been more ready? It looks like the final hit him like a storm with no chance to recover.
Nothing was wrong with Nadal's performance on the court. All players have good and bad days. What is disappointing is Nadal's comments during the award ceremony. I could understand in Naomi Osaka's case where she was new and nervous therefore could not make eloquent remarks. Nadal has been on that podium 16 times and could only offer Novak compliments with, "Someone that played better tonight.". Then more comments followed explaining his injuries as if only he is prone to getting hurt. I know he needs to maintain his image for the sake of his academy but he seemed so insecure about this status. Does Nadal really think this one loss or even future losses will put his precious academy in jeopardy? Many people say Nadal and Novak are real good friends and do not read too much into it. Really? Good friends can not congratulate each other respectfully despite a well deserved win? Classless is the only description for Nadal.
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Harry_Wild
G.O.A.T.
According to Rafa, Djokovic also worked during the off season on movement and footwork! That made the difference because Djokovic could better be in proper position to hit the ball at the angle he want to hit and make Rafa get on the defensive side of the point. That what happen in the AO finals. Rafa just got outplayed!
DRII
G.O.A.T.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
and here ladies and gents is projection crystalized...
D
Deleted member 21996
Guest
Berasategui94
Semi-Pro
Yes, I think he would've been pushed hard by a big hitter with a strong two-handed backhand, like Medvedev, Khachanov or Basilashvili.
By the way, when I saw the draw I thought Medvedev would probably be Djokovic's biggest obstacle on the way to the final, and that's how it turned out, too. Actually that was Nole's toughest match in the whole tournament.
DRII
G.O.A.T.
yea, but he got past Berdych, who I think is going to make some noise this year with his improved FH - he just needs to get his 2nd serve together, so I doubt Medvedev would have pushed him.
I think Nadal's abd strain got worse as the tournament progressed...
Pheasant
Legend
Nadal has lost a couple of steps of speed, which is a big reason why he cannot go to the Wimbledon final every year like he did during his peak years. The loss of speed in the 2019 AO final was amplified by something. I don't know if it's a nagging injury, or if the huge barrage of injuries throughout his career have finally caught up to Nadal permanently. Nadal cannot afford to cough up that much foot speed to Djoker.
Unless Nadal really steps up his serves, or gets much more aggressive, I don't see him hanging with Djoker anymore, except for maybe on clay. Maybe Fed will retire and Nadal will hire him as a coach. Nadal's current physical tools with Fed's variety MIGHT be enough to beat this version of Djoker. Nadal needs to reinvent himself.
Djokovic's level now is absolutely insane. And he's shown that he is declining much better than Nadal and Federer did.
Unless Nadal really steps up his serves, or gets much more aggressive, I don't see him hanging with Djoker anymore, except for maybe on clay. Maybe Fed will retire and Nadal will hire him as a coach. Nadal's current physical tools with Fed's variety MIGHT be enough to beat this version of Djoker. Nadal needs to reinvent himself.
Djokovic's level now is absolutely insane. And he's shown that he is declining much better than Nadal and Federer did.
Boom-Boom
Legend
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
He was missing the easiest shots of all time bro. Some of them Djokovic was in the doubles alley and Nadal had like 2 seconds to hit to the open court and missed. It was ombelievabull.
roysid
Hall of Fame
Wow. This thread is still active. So Nadal didn't give much of a fight in final.
So what..bad days happen. Sometimes u play worse when facing your toughest oppoennt.
And he came from injury and started the tournament without any match preparation.
Hes 32.5 yrs old, lest you forget.
So just move ahead people and see how he does going forward
So what..bad days happen. Sometimes u play worse when facing your toughest oppoennt.
And he came from injury and started the tournament without any match preparation.
Hes 32.5 yrs old, lest you forget.
So just move ahead people and see how he does going forward
Berd played like a complete idiot in the first 2 sets
TearTheRoofOff
G.O.A.T.
The 'could you do any better?' rhetoric is old and lame. Nadal can be evaluated against himself, and by that yardstick he was bollocks.
bjsnider
Hall of Fame
You think that Nadal didn't try hard enough?
I think you're on to something there OP. Not only was Nadal injured and performed subpar, he also had a tongue injury that caused him to be a sore loser.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
What is happening to Nadal now as with any aging ATG is that he can still play well against the field, but immediately gets exposed when facing an ATG. The only difference is that these ATG are not significantly younger than him.
ScentOfDefeat
G.O.A.T.
Djokovic is the patrician's choice for GOAT.
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
How can I remove it from my soul? Does it buff out? Can I buy a crystal or something from one of those alternative shops which smells like weed and lavender to remove it? Or is this a permanent state of affairs, where I am doomed to be a Fed fan forever?
hipolymer
Hall of Fame
strange how he never bores of golf or fishing in Mallorca
I've always said Nadal would play much better if he would calm the eff down and focus more. Watch Joko and Fed; sure, they're intense players physically, but psychologically they're islands of calm. But watch Nadal, even in the post-match on-court interview. I swear..... I know he's not, but he's so wired, it's like he's on meth or something.
vive le beau jeu !
Talk Tennis Guru
Zardoz7/12
Hall of Fame
Nadal's presser after losing was rather upbeat for someone who was given a beat down, he said he lacked that "special something" to compete at the highest level yet makes a slam final and doesn't drop a set in the process lol.
I guess Nadal will go and play in South America on that Clay swing before Indian Wells or not.
I guess Nadal will go and play in South America on that Clay swing before Indian Wells or not.
hipolymer
Hall of Fame
"Lacking that something special is what you say when you lose a 4 setter, not when you can't even get half as many games as your opponent
Fedeonic
Hall of Fame
There's another big problem: Since the Aus Open 2014, Nadal has only beaten 4 Top-10s in non-clay Slams and only Juan Martín at Wimbledon 2018 was a Grand Slam champion, and in those tournaments, he didn't even win the title...
-Aus Open 2015 QF: #7 Bendych d Nadal 62 60 76(5).
-Aus Open 2017 4R: Nadal d #6 Monfils 63 63 46 64.
-Aus Open 2017 QF: Nadal d #3 Raonic 64 76(8) 64.
-Aus Open 2018 QF: #7 Cilic d Nadal 36 63 76(5) 62 20 ret.
-Wimbledon 2018 QF: Nadal d #5 Del Potro 75 67(7) 46 64 64.
-US Open 2018 QF: Nadal d #9 Thiem 06 64 75 67(4) 76(5).
In the bolded ones, Nadal lost to Federer in AO 2017 F, Djokovic in WB 2017 SF and retired vs Del Potro at USO 2018 SF. He beat mugs in Aus Open 2017 and could get a second Top-10 scalp in the next round in 2018.
-Aus Open 2015 QF: #7 Bendych d Nadal 62 60 76(5).
-Aus Open 2017 4R: Nadal d #6 Monfils 63 63 46 64.
-Aus Open 2017 QF: Nadal d #3 Raonic 64 76(8) 64.
-Aus Open 2018 QF: #7 Cilic d Nadal 36 63 76(5) 62 20 ret.
-Wimbledon 2018 QF: Nadal d #5 Del Potro 75 67(7) 46 64 64.
-US Open 2018 QF: Nadal d #9 Thiem 06 64 75 67(4) 76(5).
In the bolded ones, Nadal lost to Federer in AO 2017 F, Djokovic in WB 2017 SF and retired vs Del Potro at USO 2018 SF. He beat mugs in Aus Open 2017 and could get a second Top-10 scalp in the next round in 2018.
He looked like that in the first set against Thiem last year at the U.S. Open, then he went on to win in a fifth set tiebreak. No need to claim he was hurting just because he was overwhelmed and not moving well.
Smasher08
Legend
Apparently Ralph got the injury while patting himself on the back after the SF.
Look, Djoker played brilliantly, and was strategically and tactically perfect. He stole a page from 2017erer and mixed it up with his own 2011-2016 peak form. It was almost like Ralph was playing two different opponents, and didn't know what Djoker was going to do from one shot to the next.
Nostradamus
Bionic Poster
Nadal was way too tired and he had no match play and wasn't match tough. That entire final don't count, it was fake
Smasher08
Legend
Erm. . . .
Remind me again how many games he lost in the tournament, having had roughly two months of rest before that? Remember, he had a tougher draw in '17 and made more of a match in the F, so no reason he wasn't as fresh as a daisy.
Djoker made him *look* tired.
I refer you to AO '17, RG-USO '10, and all of '13. He also has 14 years experience of pummeling opponents: take R1-SF AO '19, for example.
Djoker had a brilliant gameplan and executed it perfectly.
No worries, he still morally won AO '19.
Just like every single slam from '03 onwards.
Forehand_Slice
Semi-Pro
Puts a lot of 2017 in more context.
It was hard to see because his level is still so good on clay, but Nadal for his standards wasn't actually that good off clay.
The level of the field just made him seem better.
Federer played like a top 5 player most of that year, and he consecutively beat Nadal without much difficulty.
He's been unchallenged on clay, but with Djokovic back to a decent level we'll see if Rafa's clay level is really still so "unbeatable".
It was hard to see because his level is still so good on clay, but Nadal for his standards wasn't actually that good off clay.
The level of the field just made him seem better.
Federer played like a top 5 player most of that year, and he consecutively beat Nadal without much difficulty.
He's been unchallenged on clay, but with Djokovic back to a decent level we'll see if Rafa's clay level is really still so "unbeatable".
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Lol. So Shapovalov is better than Nadal on hard courts at the moment. Shapovalov would have defeated Nadal at the Australian Open right?
When will people understand that Djokovic raised his level in the SF and final. He was playing at 50% of his level against Shapovalov and Medvedev. Nadal would have straight setted Shapovalov and Medvedev, since both are substantially worse players than Tsitsipas.
Sport
G.O.A.T.
Just like 2018 puts Roland Garros 2016 in context. Djokovic's level was not that great on clay in 2016, he was lucky not to face Nadal. In 2018 RG we have seen Djokovic's real level on clay. I doubt Nadal cares about Djokovic, when he leads the H2H over him 6-1 at Roland Garros.
Djokovic2011
Bionic Poster
Lol, you really are obsessed with the 2016 French Open.
You seem to think about it more than us Djokovic fans do!
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
Nadal at clay is a completely different beast
And nadovic H2H at clay post 2011, being 9-7 is a bit misleading...
As 3 of djoker wins came into nadal's weakest years on tour (2015 MC, 2015 RG, 2016 ROM)..
Only MAD11, ROM11, MC13, ROM14 were achieved when both were prime...
Otherwise nadal pretty much thrashed nole on clay, especially at RG, even when he was half decent...
So technically its 9-4 nadal....
TahoeTennis
Legend
we still bull-ieve
BHud
Hall of Fame
In him being the best clay court specialist ever...
What exactly is the "technicality" that makes losses evaporate? You should bottle it abd sell it.
HetTheGreaterer
Banned
Boom-Boom
Legend
in the weakest clay era ever ...
Enceladus
Legend
Djoker would probably beat Nadal on the RG 2016. Although Nadal's level in the clay season 2016 was better than in 2015, it would still little on Djoker. Djoker had a strong impulse in the form of three GS titles won in a row and a series of 7 win mutual matches with Bull.
Badly, since 2011, Rafa's balance against Djoker on clay is 7-7.
Towser83
G.O.A.T.
Yep it's 7-7, you're right. Got to laugh at the use of the word "technically" I suppose "tecnically" Nadal never beat Federer in 2013. Also Djokovic was in dreadful shape the last 2 times he met Nadal on clay so if we play that game, "technically" it's only 5-4 to Nadal. Come to think of it Djokovic was dreadful in the 2012 clay season as well, having recently lost his grandfather so "technically" it's 4-2 Djokovic
D
Deleted member 762049
Guest
Withdrawals and matches completed should be figured along side H2H, which is equally useless.
TahoeTennis
Legend
#bullieve
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