The Official Angell Users Club

OlgaOM

OlgaOM

Rookie
topspn said:
TC95 and ASL in 1.35 Tour XC ready to go for tonights hit

h9FqoEa.jpg
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Am I missing something - the head sizes looks almost identical :unsure:
 
Carreau

Carreau

Semi-Pro
Thank you all for tension suggestions. I have a tournament tomorrow, shall I try TC95? :D I remember first time I tried TC100 we won local doubles tournament.

Basically it was extremely good year (even more than year) with TC100s. I won a lot, came back to the more serious racket weights and found out that I'm still capable play in heavier racket category (big kudos to Saleem). It is very interesting what TC95s will bring here. :)
 
topspn

topspn

Legend
OlgaOM said:
Am I missing something - the head sizes looks almost identical :unsure:
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Its just 5sq in difference so not a lot ;) and I think TC95 is more like a 96. If you examine them closely with the heads on top of each other you’ll see 100 tiny bit wider and a bit more space in lower head like Carreau said. You'd certainly feel it in play.
 
A

AesBinz

New User
Does ASL3 and TC100 have the same head shape/size? Or one is a bit wider and other one is bit longer on bottom?

Btw, any advantage/disadvantage of lower swingweight? Does it affect a heavy ball on higher SW? Let's say both racket is the same except the SW, thanks
 
Carreau

Carreau

Semi-Pro
Did my homework this morning:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fryh6w3klvoioez/IMG_1527.jpeg?dl=0

Some data:

Angell reported specs:
319,8g/305mm/292SW
319g/305mm/292SW

Actual measured specs (naked):
White: 319,8g/304mm
Black: 318,7g/304mm

White stick + strings: 334,6g (strings SPPP1,18/Co-Focus1,18 = 14,8g)
White stick + strings + OG + dampener (full ready): 341,7g/31mm/322SW/20,80MgR/I

Black stick + strings: 335,3g (strings itself: BlackCode1,24 = 16,6g)
Black stick + strings + OG + dampener (full ready): 342,6g/31,2mm/326SW/20,75MgR/I

SW measured with SwingTool.

And I'm quite tall guy, so, MgR/I shall be okay for me. :)
 
MilanA

MilanA

Rookie
Carreau said:
Did my homework this morning:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fryh6w3klvoioez/IMG_1527.jpeg?dl=0

Some data:

Angell reported specs:
319,8g/305mm/292SW
319g/305mm/292SW

Actual measured specs (naked):
White: 319,8g/304mm
Black: 318,7g/304mm

White stick + strings: 334,6g (strings SPPP1,18/Co-Focus1,18 = 14,8g)
White stick + strings + OG + dampener (full ready): 341,7g/31mm/322SW/20,80MgR/I

Black stick + strings: 335,3g (strings itself: BlackCode1,24 = 16,6g)
Black stick + strings + OG + dampener (full ready): 342,6g/31,2mm/326SW/20,75MgR/I

SW measured with SwingTool.

And I'm quite tall guy, so, MgR/I shall be okay for me. :)
Click to expand...
Damn those look awsome [emoji2956]

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MilanA

MilanA

Rookie
Carreau said:
In theory, 21 is ideal for average height, less than 21 for tall and those who wear wristbands, more than 21 is good for shorter guys. :)
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How do you even calculate this? Is there calculator anwhere or at least a formula?

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sanister

sanister

Professional
Guys, Im thoroughly confused so please help me out. On paper 1 gram at 12 o clock should not be more than 3.3 points in swingweight. See TWU calculation sheet. I was wrestling with that for a while this morning. But then, I just saw Angell Facebook video and it shows 1 gram at 12 o clock increasing swingweight by 6 points. Every customizer who I have spoken to says it is roughly 3 points for every gram at 12 o clock, and no way can it be 6 points and that their machine needs recalibrating. I don't have access to rdc or swing weight calculating machines. Can someone pls clarify further? Many thanks.
 
Audiophile

Audiophile

Rookie
I really like the feel of the K7 Lime. However, I am still more comfortable with my TC95s. They are, of course, both exceptional frames. Makes quite a lot of the stuff today 2nd rate, IMHO.
 
Username_

Username_

Hall of Fame
sanister said:
Guys, Im thoroughly confused so please help me out. On paper 1 gram at 12 o clock should not be more than 3.3 points in swingweight. See TWU calculation sheet. I was wrestling with that for a while this morning. But then, I just saw Angell Facebook video and it shows 1 gram at 12 o clock increasing swingweight by 6 points. Every customizer who I have spoken to says it is roughly 3 points for every gram at 12 o clock, and no way can it be 6 points and that their machine needs recalibrating. I don't have access to rdc or swing weight calculating machines. Can someone pls clarify further? Many thanks.
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worst case scenario, play with what feels good. dont look at the numbers
 
topspn

topspn

Legend
sanister said:
Yeah I am old school and I already play by feel. I just want to know the accurate numbers for my own record and knowledge.
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Most conventional wisdom out there is 1gm @12 adds 3-3.5 pts to SW. However Paul’s experiment is compelling IMO and leaves perhaps some questions on his machine needing calibration which I highly doubt. He is not some amateur, he is an engineer and with more knowledge than all of us put together on how to customize a racquet. So for me that leaves the window open that conventional wisdom isn’t a rule. There are individual influences in different racquets that may effect SW differently for the same given weight. For instance, a less HL balance will effect SW more or an already higher SW will effect any addition with more exaggeration so it’s not just a linear relationship. Also, most people apply lead tape which will be a bit more spread out when applied and not completely concentrated at exactly 12 as the weight used in the video experiment. In short, RDC will tell you after you applied your tape.
 
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Faris

Faris

Professional
Paging @Irvin!
topspn said:
Most conventional wisdom out there is 1gm @12 adds 3-3.5 pts to SW. However Paul’s experiment is compelling IMO and leaves perhaps some questions on his machine needing calibration which I highly doubt. He is not some amateur, he is an engineer and with more knowledge than all of us put together on how to customize a racquet. So for me that leaves the window open that conventional wisdom isn’t a rule. There are individual influences in different racquets that may effect SW differently for the same given weight. For instance, a less HL balance will effect SW more or an already higher SW will effect any addition with more exaggeration so it’s not just a linear relationship.
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No doubt. I agree with your assessment that it could be a variety of factors perhaps? However, I should also mention that my TC97 16x19 showed an increase of 3 points when I added 1 gram of lead tape at 12. I saw it with my own eyes. Swing weight was 320 and ended up 323. Pro shop I was at was using Babolat RDC machine. This was over a year ago. Wish I had my phone on me I would have made a small video clip. I'm sure someone can make a video clip, I'm definitely not the only one with that experience.
 
Irvin

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
Simple math for inertia (SW) the mass times the distance squared is the inertia. Inertia is additive so no matter what the inertia was before you add weight the SW (assuming you're using a 10 cm SW axis) will be 57*57*0.001 3.249 KgCM^2 for every g of weight at at inside the head @ 67 cm from the but or 57 cm from the 10 cm axis. I'm not sure what Paul's experiment was or what machine he was using but most inertia machines measure in whole number so if 1 g is added to a racket at 12 o'clock and the SW is rounded off to the nearest whole number the increase could be 3-4 points. I've also seen an RDC machine that did not give the same identical SW every time the racket is tested either without dismounting the racket or making any changes.
 
topspn

topspn

Legend
Irvin said:
Simple math for inertia (SW) the mass times the distance squared is the inertia. Inertia is additive so no matter what the inertia was before you add weight the SW (assuming you're using a 10 cm SW axis) will be 57*57*0.001 3.249 KgCM^2 for every g of weight at at inside the head @ 67 cm from the but or 57 cm from the 10 cm axis. I'm not sure what Paul's experiment was or what machine he was using but most inertia machines measure in whole number so if 1 g is added to a racket at 12 o'clock and the SW is rounded off to the nearest whole number the increase could be 3-4 points. I've also seen an RDC machine that did not give the same identical SW every time the racket is tested either without dismounting the racket or making any changes.
Click to expand...
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1279682002128206
 
Irvin

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
somebody said:
Whilst swing weight of a racket is important, it's also important to understand the changes that can be made by just 1g of added weight. Adding 1g of weight to the tip of a racket will be almost unnoticeable on court, but will give a swing weight reading of 6 points higher
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Only if the point where you add the weight is ~77.5 cm above the SW axis or you're using inaccurate measuring devices. I would check the weight twice and the SW at least 3 times to see if your measurements are accurate. It only takes a minute.
 
sanister

sanister

Professional
Irvin said:
Only if the point where you add the weight is ~77.5 cm above the SW axis or you're using inaccurate measuring devices. I would check the weight twice and the SW at least 3 times to see if your measurements are accurate. It only takes a minute.
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Thanks for your informative replies, Irvin. What do you think about the video that @topspn above posted? Do you think the swing weight machine is faulty?
 
topspn

topspn

Legend
Irvin said:
Only if the point where you add the weight is ~77.5 cm above the SW axis or you're using inaccurate measuring devices. I would check the weight twice and the SW at least 3 times to see if your measurements are accurate. It only takes a minute.
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The video is by Paul Angell who as you may know is an engineer and racquet designer so it is not my video.
 
Irvin

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
sanister said:
Thanks for your informative replies, Irvin. What do you think about the video that @topspn above posted? Do you think the swing weight machine is faulty?
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Not necessarily faulty I mean I’m sure it is in the ballpark. I bet it he added 5 g it would not go up 30 points. Those machines measure SW by timing the period, if the period is off by 0.001 sec which is not much your SW changes by probably a couple of point. You can prove that with the TWU SW calculator. That calculator uses a time for 10 swings put in a time of 13.01 for 10 swings and 13.00 for 10 swing and watch what happens to your SW keeping the weight and balance exactly the same.

You can also use the customization to to increase your SW by 3 point and see what you get.
 
topspn

topspn

Legend
Irvin said:
Ask Paul who is correct here @Racketdesign. If that increase of 6 points is accurate you proven work that Newton did 300 years ago wrong.
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I don’t have a horse in this race. I simply offered a different explanation on the conventional wisdom of 3-3.5pts per 1gm @12 vs what the video showed. You can debate Newtonian mathematics with Paul :-D
 
Irvin

Irvin

Talk Tennis Guru
topspn said:
I don’t have a horse in this race. I simply offered a different explanation on the conventional wisdom of 3-3.5pts per 1gm @12 vs what the video showed. You can debate Newtonian mathematics with Paul :-D
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I don’t have a horse in the race either. If there is a way that a 1 g weight can change the SW on a tennis racket by 6 points though i’d Love to see the logic behind it. I’m not going to believe what I seen in that video is accurate.

I have used an RDC and added 1/2 g to the butt once and watched the SW go down. I thought it was possible to lower inertia by adding mass as a result of that test but now I know that it is impossible.
 
topspn

topspn

Legend
Irvin said:
I don’t have a horse in the race either. If there is a way that a 1 g weight can change the SW on a tennis racket by 6 points though i’d Love to see the logic behind it. I’m not going to believe what I seen in that video is accurate.

I have used an RDC and added 1/2 g to the butt once and watched the SW go down. I thought it was possible to lower inertia by adding mass as a result of that test but now I know that it is impossible.
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So just so I understand, i had suggested that perhaps their are influences at play and it is not a rule that 1gm @12 increase SW by 3 or so points. Meaning if maybe the balance is different it will exaggerate or diminish the effect of the 1gm weight. Or if perhaps the SW is already high then added 1gm will have a bigger effect ( so the effect is not linear in nature). So you’re saying math does not support that?
 
S

Subaruvich

Semi-Pro
MilanA said:
Thanks...so...how could I get closer to 21 number? Is it even necessary? I'm 189cm and I allways play with wristbands on.

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Adding 18g at 7” above the handle will get you to ~21. It will shift your balance to 31.4mm. Not to mention 371g static weight.





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S

Subaruvich

Semi-Pro
MilanA said:
Thanks...so...how could I get closer to 21 number? Is it even necessary? I'm 189cm and I allways play with wristbands on.

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If that’s a TC racquet you are referring to, then take off the palettes, check if the two upper lead slots are empty or not. If you are lucky and they are empty, you can move up there 20g(2x10g)of lead from the bottom slots. That would bring you to ~20.95 without changing static weight, but balance will shift to 33cm.
Your racquet already has pretty hefty SW and that makes it much much harder to achieve 21.
But 21 is no magic number. I like my frames to be around 21 too, but there are some other mgr/i spots that worked for me well too. 20.30 for example for TC100 with SW345.




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P

Paulo Braz

Semi-Pro
Subaruvich said:
If that’s a TC racquet you are referring to, then take off the palettes, check if the two upper lead slots are empty or not. If you are lucky and they are empty, you can move up there 20g(2x10g)of lead from the bottom slots. That would bring you to ~20.95 without changing static weight, but balance will shift to 33cm.
Your racquet already has pretty hefty SW and that makes it much much harder to achieve 21.
But 21 is no magic number. I like my frames to be around 21 too, but there are some other mgr/i spots that worked for me well too. 20.30 for example for TC100 with SW345.




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Are you still using K7 Lime? I removed the lead at 3 and 9 o'clock and put 2 grams at 12, completely changed the racket, became more manageable and more stable. What lead configuration are you currently using in yours?

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S

Subaruvich

Semi-Pro
Paulo Braz said:
Are you still using K7 Lime? I removed the lead at 3 and 9 o'clock and put 2 grams at 12, completely changed the racket, became more manageable and more stable. What lead configuration are you currently using in yours?

Enviado de meu MI 6 usando o Tapatalk
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Hi, Paulo, I sold my Lime mainly because I am not an 18x20 guy.


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OlgaOM

OlgaOM

Rookie
ed70 said:
Had the same problem with K7 red I had first batch and later batch frames, both seriously lacked plow at standard weight. Tried and failed adding weight, I just couldn’t get it to perform as well as my TC97 16x19. Still use a K7 red for feeding when coaching and for a bit of social tennis, it’s sublime around the net.
Interesting that you added weight to TC97, I play mine stock and it’s solid.
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TC97 is solid indeed. Though I struggled with this dead spot many mentioned at 12oc, so I just added 1” and it got much better.
 
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