Shot Tolerance: The Elephant in Tennis Tips/Instruction

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
fitness is a huge factor in shot tolerance over the course of a match. one might have the racquet skills and speed but once you're tired the technique goes out the window and the shot tolerance drops.

To consistently win the four shot rally you have to be ready to go 8.

O'Fallacy's conclusions(not the data) are wrong. For example, he would have ruined Mecir's game.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
fitness is a huge factor in shot tolerance over the course of a match. one might have the racquet skills and speed but once you're tired the technique goes out the window and the shot tolerance drops.

To consistently win the four shot rally you have to be ready to go 8.

O'Fallacy's conclusions(not the data) are wrong. For example, he would have ruined Mecir's game.

This is where technique comes in. If you have proper technique most of the energy you use goes into the shot itself so you aren’t wasting the effort you’re putting in.

Someone with poor technique will tire out faster without being able to hurt the other guy as much as the effort put in would suggest, so has to either put in more energy to keep the pace or resort to grinding out wins.
 

IowaGuy

Hall of Fame
This is where technique comes in. If you have proper technique most of the energy you use goes into the shot itself so you aren’t wasting the effort you’re putting in.

Someone with poor technique will tire out faster without being able to hurt the other guy as much as the effort put in would suggest, so has to either put in more energy to keep the pace or resort to grinding out wins.

So if you have good technique, it doesn't matter how often the other guy dropshots you? :)
 

Curiosity

Professional
This is where technique comes in. If you have proper technique most of the energy you use goes into the shot itself so you aren’t wasting the effort you’re putting in.

Someone with poor technique will tire out faster without being able to hurt the other guy as much as the effort put in would suggest, so has to either put in more energy to keep the pace or resort to grinding out wins.

-not to mention that good modern technique seems to reduce injuries, increasing the competition longevity of players.
While I think the points, 1 & 2 which the OP makes are excellent, I don't think they represent the past use of "shot tolerance" as used by match commentators and coaches: The points 1 & 2 seem to go to skill and fitness. I may be the odd man out, but I've thought of shot tolerance limits as the point at which irritability, fear, or impatience leads a player's usual shot judgment to be overridden. It seems more a mental attribute than a skill or fitness attribute. JMPOV.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
This is where technique comes in. If you have proper technique most of the energy you use goes into the shot itself so you aren’t wasting the effort you’re putting in.

Someone with poor technique will tire out faster without being able to hurt the other guy as much as the effort put in would suggest, so has to either put in more energy to keep the pace or resort to grinding out wins.
that's not what I meant. Agassi made many guys run who had "proper technique". Even perfect Roger works on his fitness constantly. You can still gas with great technique.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
This is where technique comes in. If you have proper technique most of the energy you use goes into the shot itself so you aren’t wasting the effort you’re putting in.

Someone with poor technique will tire out faster without being able to hurt the other guy as much as the effort put in would suggest, so has to either put in more energy to keep the pace or resort to grinding out wins.

Most of the energy goes into running. (y)
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
So if you have good technique, it doesn't matter how often the other guy dropshots you? :)

I get this is a joke but all I mean is that with proper technique even if you’re chasing a drop shot the shot you hit off the drop shot will be more efficient than a 3.0 who runs down a drop shot then tries to do something with it.

Edit: not to mention the drop shotter who sees his drop shots get put away is unlikely to continue drop shotting.
 
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Bender

G.O.A.T.
that's not what I meant. Agassi made many guys run who had "proper technique". Even perfect Roger works on his fitness constantly. You can still gas with great technique.

We’re talking about different aspects of fitness here.

Of course you need a base level of fitness to be a good player.

What I mean is that for instance if you have two people of the same fitness level playing against the same opponent, the guy with poor technique will tire out first without having made a dent in the opponent’s game. The guy with proper technique will have spent his fitness on making every shot sting as far as his technique will allow, resulting in more points won overall.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
We’re talking about different aspects of fitness here.

Of course you need a base level of fitness to be a good player.

What I mean is that for instance if you have two people of the same fitness level playing against the same opponent, the guy with poor technique will tire out first without having made a dent in the opponent’s game. The guy with proper technique will have spent his fitness on making every shot sting as far as his technique will allow, resulting in more points won overall.

Aren't you including decisions and point construction as part of "technique" . I would have thought technique simply meant strokes. ???
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
I get this is a joke but all I mean is that with proper technique even if you’re chasing a drop shot the shot you hit off the drop shot will be more efficient than a 3.0 who runs down a drop shot then tries to do something with it.

Edit: not to mention the drop shotter who sees his drop shots get put away is unlikely to continue drop shotting.

I see what you are saying. Still to me the first action for every ball is getting there, and no matter now amazing technique is if have do not have proper footwork and solid fitness to get in place to use that technique, it is all for not. In shot tollerance the pressure is lrger movement, but more so smaller movement to setup properly to execute. I see a ton of guys that look amazing hitting on a ball machine or hitting with a consistent player because there is very little needed to be in position so techniue exectution is almost automatic. Shot tolerance in a match changes thta completely.

As far as cotinuing to drop shot...if I know a guy is going to struggle in the match later fitness wise I might give some early points they can get to early knowing it will pay dividens later. That is part of my own issue right now with fitness. with everyone technique itself ican be there, but the ability to get there and properly apply it will diminish without fitness and footwork.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Aren't you including decisions and point construction as part of "technique" . I would have thought technique simply meant strokes. ???
Okay fine let’s assume they’re playing against the wall.

You have two guys of the same fitness. One 3.0 and one 6.0.

Both are to hit every shot at the same pace.

Who do you think will tire first?
I see what you are saying. Still to me the first action for every ball is getting there, and no matter now amazing technique is if have do not have proper footwork and solid fitness to get in place to use that technique, it is all for not. In shot tollerance the pressure is lrger movement, but more so smaller movement to setup properly to execute. I see a ton of guys that look amazing hitting on a ball machine or hitting with a consistent player because there is very little needed to be in position so techniue exectution is almost automatic. Shot tolerance in a match changes thta completely.

As far as cotinuing to drop shot...if I know a guy is going to struggle in the match later fitness wise I might give some early points they can get to early knowing it will pay dividens later. That is part of my own issue right now with fitness. with everyone technique itself ican be there, but the ability to get there and properly apply it will diminish without fitness and footwork.

I recognise the point being made, but you have to remember that court coverage involves a lot of foot skill as well. A 3.0 will not move left and right the same way as a 6.0 will. The 6.0 will cover the same ground using far fewer steps and far less energy.

Everyone tires out eventually, but it’s a matter of how efficiently you can ration your energy reserves before your body gives out that matters, provided you already have a certain level of fitness to begin with.

A player who can’t play for 2 hours at a high-ish intensity for eg, should hit the treadmill, not just the courts.
 
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J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
fitness is a huge factor in shot tolerance over the course of a match. one might have the racquet skills and speed but once you're tired the technique goes out the window and the shot tolerance drops.

To consistently win the four shot rally you have to be ready to go 8.

O'Fallacy's conclusions(not the data) are wrong. For example, he would have ruined Mecir's game.

The Jolliteri Academy says we are going to do this 30 times in a row not because you are going to do it 30 times in a row in a match but so that you don't miss the second one in a match.

J
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
I see what you are saying. Still to me the first action for every ball is getting there, and no matter now amazing technique is if have do not have proper footwork and solid fitness to get in place to use that technique, it is all for not. In shot tollerance the pressure is lrger movement, but more so smaller movement to setup properly to execute. I see a ton of guys that look amazing hitting on a ball machine or hitting with a consistent player because there is very little needed to be in position so techniue exectution is almost automatic. Shot tolerance in a match changes thta completely.

As far as cotinuing to drop shot...if I know a guy is going to struggle in the match later fitness wise I might give some early points they can get to early knowing it will pay dividens later. That is part of my own issue right now with fitness. with everyone technique itself ican be there, but the ability to get there and properly apply it will diminish without fitness and footwork.

Yes ... the only shot tolerance that matters is the one with movement (unless your opponent agrees and is consistent enough to hit the ball to you every time).

At one time, one of my good friends was #1 4.5 singles in the state. A second good friend was #2. I always had a hard time beating both, but friend #1 played S&V, friend #2 a baseliner with a semi-heavy topspin FH. The difference in required fitness for them, and for me playing them on a hot summer day was significant. S&V friend kept points short on his service games, and groundstrokes were flatter. Heavy FH friend could easily play that heavy FH (heavy FH every swing takes WAY more energy than a flatter swing) for 2+ hours on a hot summer day. His FH had enough work on it that it took it's toll on me by late in the match. When it was 95+ high humidity noon match ... I much preferred to play S&V friend ... at least it ended without cramps. 8-B S&V guy carried some extra weight ... baseliner no extra weight.

The style of play of these two was part of any definition of shot tolerance IMO. I agree with @Curiosity ... shot tolerance to me is a measure of decision making (obviously you also have to have consistent repeatable shots). S&V guy did not get broke very often. It was a proper shot tolerance decision to risk closer to sidelines or lower over the net. Opposite for fast baseline friend ... no gain risking going for much on ros. Simply get point started on his bh side if you could.

Tennis fitness ... different than being able to run 5 miles. I could not have run 5 miles, but could keep recovering on changeovers sweating like crazy in a 2+ hour match. I did notice the 5 mile runner guys seemed to suffer less ... so there is that. 8-B
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Okay fine let’s assume they’re playing against the wall.

You have two guys of the same fitness. One 3.0 and one 6.0.

Both are to hit every shot at the same pace.

Who do you think will tire first?


I recognise the point being made, but you have to remember that court coverage involves a lot of foot skill as well. A 3.0 will not move left and right the same way as a 6.0 will. The 6.0 will cover the same ground using far fewer steps and far less energy.

Everyone tires out eventually, but it’s a matter of how efficiently you can ration your energy reserves before your body gives out that matters, provided you already have a certain level of fitness to begin with.

A player who can’t play for 2 hours at a high-ish intensity for eg, should hit the treadmill, not just the courts.

I repeat ... the biggest energy sucker is the running ... swinging/hitting is minor in comparison.

So give me a fat 4.5 beating his rec Nadal topspin on the wall making himself move, and a skinny marathon running 3.0 hitting his short stroke that keeps coming back to him ... fat better technique gut gets tired faster. 8-B

5.0s run better than 3.0s ... uh ... NO.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
I repeat ... the biggest energy sucker is the running ... swinging/hitting is minor in comparison.

So give me a fat 4.5 beating his rec Nadal topspin on the wall making himself move, and a skinny marathon running 3.0 hitting his short stroke that keeps coming back to him ... fat better technique gut gets tired faster. 8-B

5.0s run better than 3.0s ... uh ... NO.

You’re kinda straw manning the point. My point was that when you have two people of the SAME FITNESS, the one with better technique will spend less energy to hit the same shot, resulting in more energy savings, resulting in more perceived endurance (so not real endurance).

My original point is that the fitness of the player is a CONSTANT. Technique is the ONLY VARIABLE. Hell, in this thought experiment you can use two of the exact same person, one with poor technique and one with excellent technique. If both hit against the wall, the one with poor technique will tire out first because there he will waste a lot of energy that will not translate to the resultant shot.

Technique includes HOW you cover the court. I never said that being a 6.0 makes you run faster. I’m not an idiot; your understanding of my point is fundamentally wrong. That could easily be a matter of my inability to communicate exactly what I mean, so I’ll put it this way. No, being a 6.0 won’t make you run faster. However, a 6.0 doesn’t run forwards in a straight line to get to a shot that lands only a little wide like a 3.0 would. He would for instance use crossover steps to cover the same ground with as few steps as possible, and once he gets there, he will use only as much energy as needed to get the shot he wants. A 3.0 on the other hand will pigheadedly gallop towards the side fence, then will arm his shot over. Not only will he have wasted energy unnecessary running forwards, since he’s running forwards and not sideways, and conservation of momentum and all that, he cannot transfer any of that momentum into the ball.

I at no point said that fitness is not important. What I am saying is that at any given, SPECIFIC level of fitness, good technique will make better use of the energy you have. IRL, depending on who the opponent is, you could have a shorter match since you will win more points and each point could be shorter. Of course if your opponent is very good, then the match would get longer, but if your technique is high level and you tire out, that just means you need to work on your fitness. That’s more or less the point heninfan was making—that fitness alone can help improve your level all else being the same. I am talking about a different aspect of fitness, ie how technique can help conserve energy resulting in “better” endurance. It’s not actually better endurance, it’s just that you use less of it for the same results, so you last longer on court.
 
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ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
You’re kinda straw manning the point. My point was that when you have two people of the SAME FITNESS, the one with better technique will spend less energy to hit the same shot, resulting in more energy savings, resulting in more perceived endurance (so not real endurance).

My original point is that the fitness of the player is a CONSTANT. Technique is the ONLY VARIABLE. Hell, in this thought experiment you can use two of the exact same person, one with poor technique and one with excellent technique. If both hit against the wall, the one with poor technique will tire out first because there he will waste a lot of energy that will not translate to the resultant shot.

Technique includes HOW you cover the court. I never said that being a 6.0 makes you run faster. I’m not an idiot; your understanding of my point is fundamentally wrong. That could easily be a matter of my inability to communicate exactly what I mean, so I’ll put it this way. No, being a 6.0 won’t make you run faster. However, a 6.0 doesn’t run forwards in a straight line to get to a shot that lands only a little wide like a 3.0 would. He would for instance use crossover steps to cover the same ground with as few steps as possible, and once he gets there, he will use only as much energy as needed to get the shot he wants. A 3.0 on the other hand will pigheadedly gallop towards the side fence, then will arm his shot over. Not only will he have wasted energy unnecessary running forwards, since he’s running forwards and not sideways, and conservation of momentum and all that, he cannot transfer any of that momentum into the ball.

I at no point said that fitness is not important. What I am saying is that at any given, SPECIFIC level of fitness, good technique will make better use of the energy you have. IRL, depending on who the opponent is, you could have a shorter match since you will win more points and each point could be shorter. Of course if your opponent is very good, then the match would get longer, but if your technique is high level and you tire out, that just means you need to work on your fitness. That’s more or less the point heninfan was making—that fitness alone can help improve your level all else being the same. I am talking about a different aspect of fitness, ie how technique can help conserve energy resulting in “better” endurance. It’s not actually better endurance, it’s just that you use less of it for the same results, so you last longer on court.

You know I'm messing you right? ;) You will always be my favorite Bender.

Messing with you continued:

- I think energy consumption of the 100% armer is minor compared to the running of the armer
- don't think movement on a singles court tracks closely with level like you do. I have a friend that started as a fast 3.5 singles player, and ended up as a fast 5.0 player. His movement on the court changed minimally ... his kick serve, 1hbh slice, S&V and point construction changed maximally.
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
You’re kinda straw manning the point. My point was that when you have two people of the SAME FITNESS, the one with better technique will spend less energy to hit the same shot, resulting in more energy savings, resulting in more perceived endurance (so not real endurance).

My original point is that the fitness of the player is a CONSTANT. Technique is the ONLY VARIABLE. Hell, in this thought experiment you can use two of the exact same person, one with poor technique and one with excellent technique. If both hit against the wall, the one with poor technique will tire out first because there he will waste a lot of energy that will not translate to the resultant shot.

Technique includes HOW you cover the court. I never said that being a 6.0 makes you run faster. I’m not an idiot; your understanding of my point is fundamentally wrong. That could easily be a matter of my inability to communicate exactly what I mean, so I’ll put it this way. No, being a 6.0 won’t make you run faster. However, a 6.0 doesn’t run forwards in a straight line to get to a shot that lands only a little wide like a 3.0 would. He would for instance use crossover steps to cover the same ground with as few steps as possible, and once he gets there, he will use only as much energy as needed to get the shot he wants. A 3.0 on the other hand will pigheadedly gallop towards the side fence, then will arm his shot over. Not only will he have wasted energy unnecessary running forwards, since he’s running forwards and not sideways, and conservation of momentum and all that, he cannot transfer any of that momentum into the ball.

I at no point said that fitness is not important. What I am saying is that at any given, SPECIFIC level of fitness, good technique will make better use of the energy you have. IRL, depending on who the opponent is, you could have a shorter match since you will win more points and each point could be shorter. Of course if your opponent is very good, then the match would get longer, but if your technique is high level and you tire out, that just means you need to work on your fitness. That’s more or less the point heninfan was making—that fitness alone can help improve your level all else being the same. I am talking about a different aspect of fitness, ie how technique can help conserve energy resulting in “better” endurance. It’s not actually better endurance, it’s just that you use less of it for the same results, so you last longer on court.

"Technique includes HOW you cover the court. "

Does it? :unsure:

My new electric massager is massaging my hamstring while I give you cr@p ... multitasking.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
You know I'm messing you right? ;) You will always be my favorite Bender.

Messing with you continued:

- I think energy consumption of the 100% armer is minor compared to the running of the armer
- don't think movement on a singles court tracks closely with level like you do. I have a friend that started as a fast 3.5 singles player, and ended up as a fast 5.0 player. His movement on the court changed minimally ... his kick serve, 1hbh slice, S&V and point construction changed maximally.
"Technique includes HOW you cover the court. "

Does it? :unsure:
A 6.0 moves on court very differently to how a 3.0 would. Your fast 3.5-now-5.0 friend is unlikely to be moving the same way now than he did when he was a 3.5. If he is, then he either had amazing footwork for a 3.5, or his footwork is still terrible but he’s incredibly fast with very high endurance.

Stroke technique and footwork are somewhat tied, although quite loosely. Split step, crossover steps, footwork in general—I consider those as part of technique, ie skills. Perhaps not stroke technique if you want to be strict about it, but they usually come hand in hand. At lower levels there may be a notable discrepancy between the two, but the limit before your footwork skills bottleneck your performance is not particularly high, so IRL it’s rare to see someone whose stroke technique and footwork are at very different levels. Most of the time they are people who are coming from different sports, eg football (soccer to you), basketball, or badminton, but if they’re committed to the sport their stroke technique catches up quite quickly.

You’d be hard-pressed to find someone who can hit 6.0 shots (ie near perfect technique) with 3.0 footwork however. At best it’s someone whose technique looks nicer than it actually is, with terrible footwork (eg me). Even obese, former high level players retain their footwork—it’s their fitness that prevents them from moving as well as they should (eg carrying around 80 lbs more than they should), and even then they’d spend less energy covering the court than a 3.0 with 3.0 footwork who weighs the same would.

I actually played tennis a few times with a triathlete. He tires before I do even if I’m just hitting cross court to him so he doesn’t have to move much. Poor technique is poor because a lot of energy is wasted on movements that have no effect or influence on the ball that comes off the strings. No player who arms all his shots moves only his arm to the ball, even if he’s already in position and only needs to hit the ball, eg oserver or BSSH. Some part of the body is being overused (arm), other parts move around unnecessarily (360 spin), while parts that ought to be used sit around either doing nothing or nothing relevant (legs). Over say a three set match all that energy that goes into the unnecessary movement adds up. Good technique may not improve your actual endurance, but it does minimise energy wastage, not just in stroke production, but also by preventing you from having to use more energy than needed to cover the court. IMO TTW is guilty of treating stroke technique and footwork as two completely independent things, but they work too closely together to be learned in isolation. You don’t shadow swing a forehand 50 times in a row without split stepping each time you finish your swing, injury or old age notwithstanding.
 

Curiosity

Professional
The Jolliteri Academy says we are going to do this 30 times in a row not because you are going to do it 30 times in a row in a match but so that you don't miss the second one in a match.

J

There is a saying in action shooting sports: "Amateurs practice until they can hit the targets. Pros practice until they can't miss them."
It accords with your "30 times" view.
Footwork should be included in "technique," I think. Fitness, technique, and shot tolerance might well be kept separate from each other. This allows three angles from which a coach can chide his players. If not kept separate, there has to be some clear label for mental fact which causes the coaching comment "you frequently flake out and slam the ball after six shots. Hang in there until you see a better opening." Language....
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
Stefan Edberg: "People think tennis is a hitting game. Tennis is a running game."
Of course if the long side-to-side run leads to a bad hit, due perhaps to a flaky stroke or footwork, then nothing's accomplished.

I heard the quote differently, but have never been able to find the reference or verify it.

"Tennis is a game of running and hitting, but mainly running"
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
A 6.0 moves on court very differently to how a 3.0 would. Your fast 3.5-now-5.0 friend is unlikely to be moving the same way now than he did when he was a 3.5. If he is, then he either had amazing footwork for a 3.5, or his footwork is still terrible but he’s incredibly fast with very high endurance.

Stroke technique and footwork are somewhat tied, although quite loosely. Split step, crossover steps, footwork in general—I consider those as part of technique, ie skills. Perhaps not stroke technique if you want to be strict about it, but they usually come hand in hand. At lower levels there may be a notable discrepancy between the two, but the limit before your footwork skills bottleneck your performance is not particularly high, so IRL it’s rare to see someone whose stroke technique and footwork are at very different levels. Most of the time they are people who are coming from different sports, eg football (soccer to you), basketball, or badminton, but if they’re committed to the sport their stroke technique catches up quite quickly.

You’d be hard-pressed to find someone who can hit 6.0 shots (ie near perfect technique) with 3.0 footwork however. At best it’s someone whose technique looks nicer than it actually is, with terrible footwork (eg me). Even obese, former high level players retain their footwork—it’s their fitness that prevents them from moving as well as they should (eg carrying around 80 lbs more than they should), and even then they’d spend less energy covering the court than a 3.0 with 3.0 footwork who weighs the same would.

I actually played tennis a few times with a triathlete. He tires before I do even if I’m just hitting cross court to him so he doesn’t have to move much. Poor technique is poor because a lot of energy is wasted on movements that have no effect or influence on the ball that comes off the strings. No player who arms all his shots moves only his arm to the ball, even if he’s already in position and only needs to hit the ball, eg oserver or BSSH. Some part of the body is being overused (arm), other parts move around unnecessarily (360 spin), while parts that ought to be used sit around either doing nothing or nothing relevant (legs). Over say a three set match all that energy that goes into the unnecessary movement adds up. Good technique may not improve your actual endurance, but it does minimise energy wastage, not just in stroke production, but also by preventing you from having to use more energy than needed to cover the court. IMO TTW is guilty of treating stroke technique and footwork as two completely independent things, but they work too closely together to be learned in isolation. You don’t shadow swing a forehand 50 times in a row without split stepping each time you finish your swing, injury or old age notwithstanding.

I teach a 4.0 adult who is a marathon runner. He says no training required to run a half marathon, just put your sneakers on and go. He is shot after 4 Pato Alvarez Xs (16 balls); I can do about half the cart before I start leaking oil (~175 balls.)

J
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
There is a saying in action shooting sports: "Amateurs practice until they can hit the targets. Pros practice until they can't miss them."
It accords with your "30 times" view.
Footwork should be included in "technique," I think. Fitness, technique, and shot tolerance might well be kept separate from each other. This allows three angles from which a coach can chide his players. If not kept separate, there has to be some clear label for mental fact which causes the coaching comment "you frequently flake out and slam the ball after six shots. Hang in there until you see a better opening." Language....

I like it.

J
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
I teach a 4.0 adult who is a marathon runner. He says no training required to run a half marathon, just put your sneakers on and go. He is shot after 4 Pato Alvarez Xs (16 balls); I can do about half the cart before I start leaking oil (~175 balls.)

J

FWIW the 6.5 player my coach coaches can finish the cart and the 5.5 does about 2/3.

J
 

Curiosity

Professional
I heard the quote differently, but have never been able to find the reference or verify it.

"Tennis is a game of running and hitting, but mainly running"

I actually heard him say it... It was very memorable. Since I speak Swedish (blame the wife, and spending so much time there over 39 years), Stefan's laconic English pronouncements long struck me as fun, the export of a temperment. Fewest words possible. He's loosened up in the last decade, unless he's speaking Swedish, in which case "laconic" is mandatory for respectable sober people.
 
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Bender

G.O.A.T.
I teach a 4.0 adult who is a marathon runner. He says no training required to run a half marathon, just put your sneakers on and go. He is shot after 4 Pato Alvarez Xs (16 balls); I can do about half the cart before I start leaking oil (~175 balls.)

J

I can finish at least a large basket of balls playing 5-10 shot rallies at highish intensity (granted some of those exchanges might be a lot shorter than planned) before I feel a need to have a drink.

Usually my hitting partner and I grab about 8 new balls and play high intensity rallies for about 60 mins without a break (other than to pick up some balls). You’d think the ball collection counts as a break but they’re such a hassle I end up jogging around to pick them up.

I don’t know how that translates to your cart. Are you belting one shot per ball? In that case I should be able to do about half too. The hitting when you hit hard usually is more tiring than the running I find.
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
I can finish at least a large basket of balls playing 5-10 shot rallies at highish intensity (granted some of those exchanges might be a lot shorter than planned) before I feel a need to have a drink.

Usually my hitting partner and I grab about 8 new balls and play high intensity rallies for about 60 mins without a break (other than to pick up some balls). You’d think the ball collection counts as a break but they’re such a hassle I end up jogging around to pick them up.

I don’t know how that translates to your cart. Are you belting one shot per ball? In that case I should be able to do about half too. The hitting when you hit hard usually is more tiring than the running I find.

Hahahahahahaha.

J
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Hahahahahahaha.

J
Well I don’t have a point of reference so I have no idea how it translates to your standards

All I know is that I’m good for about 3 hours of high intensity tennis with maybe 5 mins break in total sprinkled here and there

Under the sun is another story though
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Well I don’t have a point of reference so I have no idea how it translates to your standards

All I know is that I’m good for about 3 hours of high intensity tennis with maybe 5 mins break in total sprinkled here and there

Under the sun is another story though


J
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
That's really hard

It’s really fun though! Great opportunity to improve footwork and hit some flashy shots on top of everything else.

They really help you learn now to smack short balls and low slices for winners / forcing shots as well.
 

heninfan99

Talk Tennis Guru
It’s really fun though! Great opportunity to improve footwork and hit some flashy shots on top of everything else.

They really help you learn now to smack short balls and low slices for winners / forcing shots as well.
yeah, it's really hard, as I said. If it's easy for you then I should see you on the tour soon.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
yeah, it's really hard, as I said. If it's easy for you then I should see you on the tour soon.
Oh it's not easy for me. I wish it were though. I just happen to enjoy a lot of the drills that get shared here (including the one I mentioned). Unfortunately it's hard to get courts where I live so I don't get to do those as often as I would like.

The one I don't like nearly as much is the one with the cone on the centre hash and you have to run around it before you hit a fh / bh.
 

Curiosity

Professional
All the Spanish Drills (1-11) are great, right up until you have a non-English-speaking Spanish coach end up on court with you for an hour in the hot August sun in the far south of Andalusia. (My english-speaking coach had found a better job.) I was 66 last year and I've gone to the same club every year for two decades (and to the area for much longer...but my friends are mostly German, Swedish, or English-Speaking Spaniards). We warmed up with full-court alternating FH and BH drives at an easy pace. Then, with a nonchalance which belied his intentions, he dragged his cart of balls up past the service line, gestured as to what I was supposed to do, while saying it in Spanish, and began. After two drills I was gasping for breath and sensing incipient heat-stroke. I explained this to him in...English. He clearly thought I was insulting the Spanish System, and just launched into the next drill. I knew only enough Spanish to get the gist of what I was supposed to do. We took a brief break, and I tried to explain that he was tormenting me, and that if I died on the court my wife would exact hideous revenge upon him. He didn't comprehend. Back for another drill. Now I'm 67, and have convinced my wife we have to go in May from now on, for the cooler weather. So we're going in May, and I'm taking my little Spanish-English dictionary to the court -and a Tazer for defensive purposes against out of control Spanish System lessons. The club has a great early evening doubles program and Sunday tournament, though, and an excellent bar up on the terrace. "To live is to suffer!" That's Buddhist or Russian, not Spanish, BTW. The tonic and limes are Spanish and the Gin is British...
 

ByeByePoly

G.O.A.T.
All the Spanish Drills (1-11) are great, right up until you have a non-English-speaking Spanish coach end up on court with you for an hour in the hot August sun in the far south of Andalusia. (My english-speaking coach had found a better job.) I was 66 last year and I've gone to the same club every year for two decades (and to the area for much longer...but my friends are mostly German, Swedish, or English-Speaking Spaniards). We warmed up with full-court alternating FH and BH drives at an easy pace. Then, with a nonchalance which belied his intentions, he dragged his cart of balls up past the service line, gestured as to what I was supposed to do, while saying it in Spanish, and began. After two drills I was gasping for breath and sensing incipient heat-stroke. I explained this to him in...English. He clearly thought I was insulting the Spanish System, and just launched into the next drill. I knew only enough Spanish to get the gist of what I was supposed to do. We took a brief break, and I tried to explain that he was tormenting me, and that if I died on the court my wife would exact hideous revenge upon him. He didn't comprehend. Back for another drill. Now I'm 67, and have convinced my wife we have to go in May from now on, for the cooler weather. So we're going in May, and I'm taking my little Spanish-English dictionary to the court -and a Tazer for defensive purposes against out of control Spanish System lessons. The club has a great early evening doubles program and Sunday tournament, though, and an excellent bar up on the terrace. "To live is to suffer!" That's Buddhist or Russian, not Spanish, BTW. The tonic and limes are Spanish and the Gin is British...

Sorry to tell you mate ... your wife speaks Spanish and had a chat with coach before your drill group.
 

user92626

G.O.A.T.
Stefan Edberg: "People think tennis is a hitting game. Tennis is a running game."

This Stefan guy is probably banned from The Society of Wheelchair Tennis.



Can you imagine, this guy walks into a wheelchair tennis tournament full of people and every second goes by he shakes his head in disapproval and shouts out to the players "You gotta run. It's a running sport". "Oh my freaking gosh! you know how you lost that point? You kept sitting your arse on that chair. This is ridiculous!! I cannot believe this!!!"


(hmm too much Will Ferrell comedy, eh?)
 

J011yroger

Talk Tennis Guru
Is this the drill you referred to here?


If so, I'm guessing the short balls go DTL and long balls go cross-court?

You do all four variations in the drill, 16 balls for one set. If someone messes up you just scream at them. I personally tell the player where to hit the ball as I feed it until they get good and do it slowly and repeat the variations for people new to the drills.

Other coaches (mine) insult the player's worth as a human being for additional motivation.

J
 
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