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I don't like strings to move, so I am going with 18x20
Why did you go with 18x20 ?
Why did you go with 18x20 ?
I don't like strings to move, so I am going with 18x20
Why did you go with 18x20 ?
I liked 18x20 for biting slices, directional control, and serving.
I don't like strings to move, so I am going with 18x20
Why did you go with 18x20 ?
Why serving ?
I definitely had better serves and volleys using the 18x20 frame but found it very difficult to generate spin on ground strokes. So much so that I switched back to the 16x18 pattern. Once I did I saw an immediate improvement in my ground strokes.
Yeah well I’m not him. If you generate consistently good racquet head speed and play with poly then it’s not an issue. Most pros it seems prefer the 18x20 pattern and for good reason. The directional control it gives you is real. But for me the loss of spin on ground strokes was also real. Like I said as soon as I switched from the 100P (18x20) to the 100L (16x18) mybgroundstrokes improved. These racquets are almost identical (since the 100L is weighted up to about 325 grams) except for the strong pattern.Dominik Thiem generates crazy spin, even more than Nadal, with an 18x20 string pattern. Makes me wonder....
a lot of pros (and 5.0+ for that matter) who use an 18x20 do so simply bc they were breaking too many strings with an open pattern. not a very exciting reason, but true in many instancesYeah well I’m not him. If you generate consistently good racquet head speed and play with poly then it’s not an issue. Most pros it seems prefer the 18x20 pattern and for good reason. The directional control it gives you is real. But for me the loss of spin on ground strokes was also real. Like I said as soon as I switched from the 100P (18x20) to the 100L (16x18) mybgroundstrokes improved. These racquets are almost identical (since the 100L is weighted up to about 325 grams) except for the strong pattern.
a lot of pros (and 5.0+ for that matter) who use an 18x20 do so simply bc they were breaking too many strings with an open pattern. not a very exciting reason, but true in many instances
Fed is not breaking strings in a 16x19. Must be a pusher.
Yes I guess that is true. I rarely break strings so there was no advantage there for me either.a lot of pros (and 5.0+ for that matter) who use an 18x20 do so simply bc they were breaking too many strings with an open pattern. not a very exciting reason, but true in many instances
Dominik Thiem generates crazy spin, even more than Nadal, with an 18x20 string pattern. Makes me wonder....
Generally:
18 X 20's (or dense)
16 X 19's (or open)
- More Control
- Less Power
- Longer String Life
- Less Spin
- Deader string bed
These are generalizations. The description deader string bed is not meant to be derogatory, if someone has a better term, please insert. Pros/advanced players tend to use denser string beds because they can supply their own power and are looking for more control. It should be noted that tiny tweaks in a frame yield more results to pros/advanced players. Club players really don't have the technique to reap the benefits.
- Less control
- More power
- Shorter string life (the more open the shorter)
- More spin
- Lively string bed
Bottom line, if you like a dense string pattern use one. If you (and this is me) prefer an open string pattern, that's groovy too. It's all personal preference.
I like playing my 18x20 with thicker strings to max out control of launch angle, depth control, and stability of stringbed playing characteristics.With 18x20 you can play with thinner strings (without breaking them too fast), and thinner strings often have better feel.
a lot of pros (and 5.0+ for that matter) who use an 18x20 do so simply bc they were breaking too many strings with an open pattern. not a very exciting reason, but true in many instances
Hmm. Selective reading to be sure.People here talk that they can only generate spin with 16x18 pattern.. With the right tecnique you can generate tons of spin with 18x20. I have no problem to hit havy spinballs
You dont have more power with less strings! But the ball will go easilier deeper. Thats the same with low and high tension stringing. Not more power but more or less depth!
Hmm. Selective reading to be sure.
But regardless let me clarify. I can generate spin with my Tour100P sure. But I find on groundies I can generate the same spin with less effort which give me a greater margin for error.
To be sure the 100P gave me greater directional control and helped me hit a flatter put away ball. But...I was just hitting way to many groundies out or in the net. What’s the point of having a good first serve and good volleys if I dump the return in the net or can’t hit a forehand from the baseline?
After two years I finally realized I wasn’t going to be able to play with the 100P so I gave the 100L a **** because it was on clearance. The rest as they say is history.
I'm not sure about the "easilier" part, but could the reason the ball goes deeper be because of the additional power? IME, I get more oomph on the ball -- read MPH's -- with an open string pattern. Call it what you will. I've also been told this by folks who are "in the know".
Im a high level coach, and pro stringer and customizer. I know what I talk about. There's been studies about this subject. The ball goes deeper because the ball goes deeper in the strings and get more elasticy with that and flies further. With more tension, the ball goes less deeper in the stringbed, less elasticy and less depth.
Would elasticity = power? Methinks so.
But whatever floats your boat.
You think wrong. But thats with a lot of people here. They think they know stuff but they dont.
That a ball goes deeper has nothing to do with power when you string at a lower tension. Its just physics. But if you think its power, I let you think that.
Just tell me English is not your native language & I'll believe you.
People here talk that they can only generate spin with 16x18 pattern.. With the right tecnique you can generate tons of spin with 18x20. I have no problem to hit havy spinballs
You think wrong. But thats with a lot of people here. They think they know stuff but they dont.
That a ball goes deeper has nothing to do with power when you string at a lower tension. Its just physics. But if you think its power, I let you think that.
Yeah for more advanced players, they have no problem getting all the depth, spin and pop they need out of the 18x20 so why not just have strings that last longer. I used to be a string breaker and when I used the POG mid (14x18), I broke strings every 45 min to 1.5 hours, even with poly. Even stringing for myself and money not being a problem, I just got tired of stringing racquets all the time. Even now, give me a mult/poly in my 16x19 Response and I get a max of 3 hours. Being a family man now, it's just a pain to string so often.a lot of pros (and 5.0+ for that matter) who use an 18x20 do so simply bc they were breaking too many strings with an open pattern. not a very exciting reason, but true in many instances
Just tell me English is not your native language & I'll believe you.
I think you're a bit mired in semantics. I get more pace playing with open string patterns than with closed string patterns. Whatever the reason, I perceive that to be an increase in power. More pace is equivalent to more power, yes?
Just tell me English is not your native language & I'll believe you.
I think you're a bit mired in semantics. I get more pace playing with open string patterns than with closed string patterns. Whatever the reason, I perceive that to be an increase in power. More pace is equivalent to more power, yes?
And if you are getting more spin you will be able to hit harder without the ball sailing. Again not the same thing as power. But an easy mistake to make.If you have any playsight courts around that's the real way to find out. You may be surprised with some of the stats on pace.
Robin is correct imo, the power would equate to higher MPH on your shots. The pattern is more about the trajectory of the shot. It's easier to get the ball to launch higher out of the bed with a more open pattern but it doesn't mean you are hitting with more power. It feels like it though so that is why many people will say that.
My feeling is that I get more power from low string tension, but your take is interesting and could be valid too.
Cheers, Toby
And if you are getting more spin you will be able to hit harder without the ball sailing. Again not the same thing as power. But an easy mistake to make.
If you have any playsight courts around that's the real way to find out. You may be surprised with some of the stats on pace.
Robin is correct imo, the power would equate to higher MPH on your shots. The pattern is more about the trajectory of the shot. It's easier to get the ball to launch higher out of the bed with a more open pattern but it doesn't mean you are hitting with more power. It feels like it though so that is why many people will say that.
No not selective reading. And its not only in this thread. Maybe because of my background, im a high level coach, but most things are related to a good tecnique. And yes less strings make spin easier. But with a good tecnique matter.
Not to be difficult here but isn’t the technique issue kind of beside the point? With good technique using a smaller head size doesn’t really matter either. And yet the pros don’t play with 85sq in heads either because it makes it harder than it needs to be.
That’s how it was for me. Sure I can generate spin with the closed pattern. But it takes a lot more effort for this once to twice a week player. I suppose if I went out and hit for hours everyday and really nailed my form down it wouldn’t matter. But then I’d also have to quit my job which might the rest of my life pretty difficult.
It’s all about trade offs and what works for you.
I’m not sure if anyone thinks it’s quite that simple. But you’re forgetting that a lot of TTW users are just looking for a quick fix/magic bullet that will take their game to the next level. Sadly that’s just not how it works.Thats correct. But that wasn't the point. Ofcourse an open pattern makes it easier. But you can hit a very heavy spinball with a closed pattern. And I ment more that a lot of people think you need an open pattern to hit a good spinball, but with a good tecnique that doesnt matter. And some think you can play with spin with an open pattern when you hit flat.. You have to make a movement....
I’m not sure if anyone thinks it’s quite that simple. But you’re forgetting that a lot of TTW users are just looking for a quick fix/magic bullet that will take their game to the next level. Sadly that’s just not how it works.
Yeah well I’m not him. If you generate consistently good racquet head speed and play with poly then it’s not an issue. Most pros it seems prefer the 18x20 pattern and for good reason. The directional control it gives you is real. But for me the loss of spin on ground strokes was also real. Like I said as soon as I switched from the 100P (18x20) to the 100L (16x18) mybgroundstrokes improved. These racquets are almost identical (since the 100L is weighted up to about 325 grams) except for the strong pattern.
Ive read a lot of.... **** in a lot of topics and sadly, there are people who thinks like that..
I know, thats why I react sometimes. To tell them the truth. And there are no magic bullets.. Good material helps a little bit(Some lead at some places can help also a bit.), but you have to put some time in developing your skills.
Yes but I weighted up to the same mass and balance as the P. Once you do that they are very similar. Same flex etc.The 100L has a totally different profile than 100P
100P
100L
- 7 points HL
- 326g
- Even balance
- 289g
Rabbit, lots of people here, including myself dont have English as our native language, so please dont go down that road. I speak 4 languages, so sometimes things get mixed up, but I am sure most people here get the meaning anyway.
Cheers, Toby
he already told you he weighted the L. are you being deliberately obtuse?The 100L has a totally different profile than 100P
100P
100L
- 7 points HL
- 326g
- Even balance
- 289g