Rafa is apparently in trouble

Otacon

Otacon

Hall of Fame
Patrick Mouratoglou has just made an interesting observation on Eurosport.

He has indeed noticed that since the beginning of the year, Nadal tends to start his matches at full throttle in order to finish off his opponent as soon as possible because he no longer has the physical endurance of yesteryear to wear them down.

Today against Groffin, I think we've clearly seen this pattern. But David is not good enough to sustain a high level of play for 5 sets.

Bottom line is if there's someone who can stay with Rafa for more than 3 hours, he’s got a good chance to wear him down and beat him.
Someone like Tsitsipas, Thiem or Djokovic.
 
Djokodalerer31

Djokodalerer31

Hall of Fame
georgemccauley said:
There needs to be a mod to filter out and delete these ridiculous threads
Click to expand...

Why? Just because you are personally triggered and don't like to hear other people's opinions? And its not like its the op. that made this thread just to badmouth Rafa! Its the observation made by one of the most famous tennis experts in this port! LOL While i disagree with it - it doesn't warrant thread deletion...
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
Otacon said:
Patrick Mouratoglou has just made an interesting observation on Eurosport.

He has indeed noticed that since the beginning of the year, Nadal tends to start his matches at full throttle in order to finish off his opponent as soon as possible because he no longer has the physical endurance of yesteryear to wear them down.

Today against Groffin, I think we've clearly seen this pattern. But David is not good enough to sustain a high level of play for 5 sets.

Bottom line is if there's someone who can stay with Rafa for more than 3 hours, he’s got a good chance to wear him down and beat him.
Someone like Tsitsipas, Thiem or Djokovic.
Click to expand...

I would say much the same of Federer. Neither of them can any longer sustain repeated long matches. They need to get the job done as quickly as possible and against the lower ranked players this is what they now tend to do.
 
Otacon

Otacon

Hall of Fame
Mainad said:
I would say much the same of Federer. Neither of them can any longer sustain repeated long matches. They need to get the job done as quickly as possible and against the lower ranked players this is what they now tend to do.
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Federer was never known to be a monster of endurance even in his best years. It's more interesting for Rafa who has built his aura on the capacity to always be the last man standing.
 
Djokodalerer31

Djokodalerer31

Hall of Fame
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil said:
Nadal has won the French after dropping a set in earlier rounds before. Got to see him in bigger trouble than that.
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And even worse...what about nearly losing to Isner of all people in first match of RG? LOL Look i realize its nowhere an indication of how Thiem, Djokovic or even Tsitsipas will perform against Nadal in semis or final, but then nobody tries to imply that it is to even start with! You people read into it way farther, than you should! It is simply an observation made by expert, based on how Rafa performed in this particular match and nothing more! Broadcasting his closest rivals chances based on that is absolutely normal and that is what experts were doing since forever! Why getting triggered over it? LOL And i am the first one to admit i disagree with that observation, but just an "alterante" opinion and nothing more...thread deletion over that? REALY??!...WOW LMAO
 
T

TahoeTennis

Legend
JoelDali said:
Nadal is in big trouble on clay.
Click to expand...

big.jpg
 
TheAssassin

TheAssassin

Legend
Even last year I didn't find him to be monstrous at Roland Garros. But he is still far ahead of the field and doesn't require his highest level to be victorious there.

Maybe a well playing Djokovic or Thiem can find a way this time. However they need to be really hot for several hours.
 
D

Deleted member 762343

Guest
I do think Nadal’s current level is overrated, he’s not as good as he could be (that doesn’t mean he won’t win the tournament but I don’t consider him the favorite).
 
TripleATeam

TripleATeam

G.O.A.T.
Honestly, why play anything but top-tier tennis if he can do it day-in, day-out? I understand wanting to save yourself for later, but Rafa was able to pull off 10 breadsticks and bagels over his last 8 matches, losing none. I'll believe he lost a step when I see it.
 
Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Doctor/Lawyer Red Devil

Talk Tennis Guru
Djokodalerer31 said:
And even worse...what about nearly losing to Isner of all people in first match of RG? LOL Look i realize its nowhere an indication of how Thiem, Djokovic or even Tsitsipas will perform against Nadal in semis or final, but then nobody tries to imply that it is to even start with! You people read into it way farther, than you should! It is simply an observation made by expert, based on how Rafa performed in this particular match and nothing more! Broadcasting his closest rivals chances based on that is absolutely normal and that is what experts were doing since forever! Why getting triggered over it? LOL And i am the first one to admit i disagree with that observation, but just an "alterante" opinion and nothing more...thread deletion over that? REALY??!...WOW LMAO
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Who is triggered? :D Mouratoglou can say whatever he wants, I am fine with it. I would be thrilled if Djokovic is the one who beats Nadal at RG this year actually. But I remember spending way too much time hoping Nadal would stop winning there. Not going to set myself up for a likely disappointment again, especially since I don't care anymore.
Otacon said:
Mouratoglou was talking about this year.

What happened in 2018 happened.
What happened in 2017 happened.
What happened in 2014 happened.
What happened in 2013 happened.

Etc.
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Hey if someone else wins RG, great. I won't be complaining.

Do you think Nadal won't win this year?
 
MeatTornado

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
Already in big trouble? No. Not even close.

In the event that he finds himself deep in the 5th set of the final against Djokovic? Maybe he'll be in slight trouble.


Until then, ungodly fitness is not required for him to swat away anyone that comes near him the first 6 rounds.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
AceSalvo

AceSalvo

Legend
Totally agree with OP. Either Tsitsipas/Thiem/Djoko takes Nadal out if pushed to 5th set. If Nadal doesn’t face any of these guys then that’s his charming luck working very busy. Not that he needs it on clay.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Imperator said:
I do think Nadal’s current level is overrated, he’s not as good as he could be (that doesn’t mean he won’t win the tournament but I don’t consider him the favorite).
Click to expand...

Matches like the one today is why I am saying Nadal is not a lock for the title. I do still have him as the favorite, but by no means a lock as it stands. Of course this opinion can change the further we go into the tournament.
 
VoodooChild24

VoodooChild24

Semi-Pro
Otacon said:
Patrick Mouratoglou has just made an interesting observation on Eurosport.

He has indeed noticed that since the beginning of the year, Nadal tends to start his matches at full throttle in order to finish off his opponent as soon as possible because he no longer has the physical endurance of yesteryear to wear them down.

Today against Groffin, I think we've clearly seen this pattern. But David is not good enough to sustain a high level of play for 5 sets.

Bottom line is if there's someone who can stay with Rafa for more than 3 hours, he’s got a good chance to wear him down and beat him.
Someone like Tsitsipas, Thiem or Djokovic.
Click to expand...

Goes both ways imo. If Rafa can hang 3 hours with his opponents then they will be in trouble as well. I don't see what the deal is with what he said. Very basic observation tbh.
 
True Fanerer

True Fanerer

G.O.A.T.
The problem with this is that Rafa can afford to throw away a set against almost any player not named Djokovic. He just can. That's the way it is. He can't slip playing Djokovic. I believe it's up to Rafa what happens here and how he manages his own fitness. I agree that it could be a factor, but only against Djokovic. Anyone else is going to have to outplay him imo.
 
Steve0904

Steve0904

Talk Tennis Guru
Tsitsipas and Thiem won't do it and Djokovic is a 50/50 shot at best. So saying Nadal is in trouble is probably a bit inaccurate.

Moratoglou is Mr captain obvious. He's also the one that said Djokovic could beat Federer's record (obviously Djokovic can do it that's not news, but it doesn't mean he will). And it's the same here. Everyone knows Nadal isn't quite as good as he used to be and that he can't go 5 hrs in 2-3 matches and expect to win tournaments anymore. That doesn't mean he'll lose here.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Steve0904 said:
Tsitsipas and Thiem won't do it and Djokovic is a 50/50 shot at best. So saying Nadal is in trouble is probably a bit inaccurate.

Moratoglou is Mr captain obvious. He's also the one that said Djokovic could beat Federer's record (obviously Djokovic can do it that's not news, but it doesn't mean he will). And it's the same here. Everyone knows Nadal isn't quite as good as he used to be and that he can't go 5 hrs in 2-3 matches and expect to win tournaments anymore. That doesn't mean he'll lose here.
Click to expand...

I would say it is an exaggeration. Nadal isn't in any more trouble than we already knew he would be heading in. A slight slip up may cost him a set, but it won't cost him a match here against virtually the entire draw. Djokovic is different because he lives inside Nadal's head, so a slip up against him can be costly. Thiem has the endurance, and strength to take Nadal the distance, but with him, the problem is more between the ears than with his physicality and I don't think Nadal can bully him the way he can bully others. Tsitsipas...Not sure he is there yet.
 
Sport

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Otacon said:
Patrick Mouratoglou has just made an interesting observation on Eurosport.

He has indeed noticed that since the beginning of the year, Nadal tends to start his matches at full throttle in order to finish off his opponent as soon as possible because he no longer has the physical endurance of yesteryear to wear them down.

Today against Groffin, I think we've clearly seen this pattern. But David is not good enough to sustain a high level of play for 5 sets.

Bottom line is if there's someone who can stay with Rafa for more than 3 hours, he’s got a good chance to wear him down and beat him.
Someone like Tsitsipas, Thiem or Djokovic.
Click to expand...
All of this because Nadal lost a set? What an oportunistic overreaction. Unobjective analysis from a Fed or Djokovic fan. Don't know who is Mouratoglou but he is not pro-Nadal.

1. Nadal did not look exhausted at all. Goffin was being passive in the first set and a half. In the third set, he was way more aggresive and hitting deeper. Nadal also was hitting all the time to Goffin's forehand side and returned weak shots (which allowed Goffin to excute easy drop shots). In the fourh set, Nadal found solutions by means of attacking Goffin's backhand and returning deeper. It had nothing to do with Nadal being tired. Goffin increased his level in the third and Nadal found solutions in the fourth.

2. Djokovic is 32, basically almost the same age than Nadal. Djokovic did not look to have a better stamina than Nadal in Rome, but paradoxically that data is not mentioned by the author.

3. Stamina is maintained far more easily with age than speed. That is why you see professional runners from marathons well in their 40s and even in their 50s. Nadal and Djokovic are stamina beasts, which will allow them to be competitive in their late 30s. Federer has never been the same physical beast as Nadalovic, so don't know if Federer's stamina will last so much as Nadal's and Djokovic's ones.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Sport said:
All of this because Nadal lost a set? What an oportunistic overreaction. Unobjective analysis from a Fed or Djokovic fan. Don't know who is Mouratoglou but he is not pro-Nadal.

1. Nadal did not look exhausted at all. Goffin was being passive in the first set and a half. In the third set, he was way more aggresive and hitting deeper. Nadal also was hitting all the time to Goffin's forehand side and returned weak shots (which allowed Goffin to excute easy drop shots). In the fourh set, Nadal found solutions by means of attacking Goffin's backhand and returning deeper. It had nothing to do with Nadal being tired. Goffin increased his level in the third and Nadal found solutions in the fourth.

2. Djokovic is 32, basically almost the same age than Nadal. Djokovic did not look to have a better stamina than Nadal in Rome, but paradoxically that data is not mentioned by the author.

3. Stamina is maintained far more easily with age than speed. That is why you see professional runners from marathons well in their 40s and even in their 50s. Nadal and Djokovic are stamina beasts, which will allow them to be competitive in their late 30s. Federer has never been the same physical beast as Nadalovic, so don't know if Federer's stamina will last so much as Nadal's and Djokovic's ones.
Click to expand...

That's Serena's coach, so he knows a thing or two about tennis. Irrespective of whether he is right or wrong here.
 
BeatlesFan

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Otacon said:
Bottom line is if there's someone who can stay with Rafa for more than 3 hours, he’s got a good chance to wear him down and beat him.
Someone like Tsitsipas, Thiem or Djokovic.
Click to expand...

You're neglecting Nadal's almost mythical status at RG and the mental jitters that induces in his opponents. It's one thing to "wear down" Nadal physically, the question is: can anyone mentally dominate him on Chatrier? It's only been done once to a well-playing Nadal in 2009 (2015 when he lost, he was awful). I can't imagine Thiem serving out a match against Nadal on Chatrier in a final and can barely imagine Tsistipas doing it. For at least 9 years, the mantra has been: "the hardest thing in tennis is to beat Nadal on Chatrier." For that reason alone, neither Thiem or Tsistipas have the balls to do it this year.
 
P

Pantera

Banned
Nadal is a mere shadow of the player he was. I love the guy and am a huge fan but after watching him for the last 15 years it is sad seeing him now. He has a God like aura at the FO and all the Majors which wins him matches these daya but as a player his biggest weapons...movement and physical domination have gone.

Nishikori will beat him in the QF and Nadal will retire. Even if Nadal wins RG he will retire . The clue is the upcoming marriage.

Rafa doesnt need to win another match. His legacy as arguably the greatest of all time is secure.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Pantera said:
Nadal is a mere shadow of the player he was. I love the guy and am a huge fan but after watching him for the last 15 years it is sad seeing him now. He has a God like aura at the FO and all the Majors which wins him matches these daya but as a player his biggest weapons...movement and physical domination have gone.

Nishikori will beat him in the QF and Nadal will retire. Even if Nadal wins RG he will retire . The clue is the upcoming marriage.

Rafa doesnt need to win another match. His legacy as arguably the greatest of all time is secure.
Click to expand...

What is with all the massive amount of negativity. This was your post just a few days before RG.

Pantera said:
Yes watched it and there were some weaknesses in Djokovics game that I knew Nadal on a high bouncing court would exploit..i said he would last year. It has been almost 3 years since Djokovic beat Nadal on a high bouncing court . If FO is hot and sunny Nadal will walk it.
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And now he is a mere shadow and Nishikori will retire him? LOL
He lost a set....it happens. He has lost sets before. Losing a match is whole different thing here. Nadal is fav for the title, though he is not a lock.
 
P

Pantera

Banned
Hitman said:
What is with all the massive amount of negativity. This was your post just a few days before RG.



And now he is a mere shadow and Nishikori will retire him? LOL
He lost a set....it happens. He has lost sets before. Losing a match is whole different thing here. Nadal is fav for the title, though he is not a lock.
Click to expand...
Rafas movement isnt there but look at his face closely and how drawn he looks. Moya has been saying his legs have gone as well.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Pantera said:
Rafas movement isnt there but look at his face closely and how drawn he looks. Moya has been saying his legs have gone as well.
Click to expand...

His movement hasn't degraded that significantly, it not by no means peak Nadal out there, but he is not chopped liver out there or some wounded animal waiting to be put out of its misery. Moya is saying that they are trying to make Rafa more efficient by playing more aggressive, not always running the backhand, stepping in, that doesn't translate into Rafa having no legs.
 
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