Why Venus Williams should consider retirement.

conjoshruk

conjoshruk

Semi-Pro
As a diehard Venus Williams fan, it pains me to say this, but I think Venus should seriously consider retirement, after the US Open or next year. Watching the highlights and live scores of her match against Mattek Sands today, she really appeared a shadow of her former self.
Although she carries herself with the trademark grace and respect on and off the court, with a warm smile and handshake at the net, I feel Venus has perhaps overstayed her 'time in the sun'.
Her serve (although not always consistent) has usually been able to get her out of trouble. But it has become even more streaky. Plus her tendency to miss easy sitters, is quite costly.
Her first round loss, at the French Open, was not surprising as she's never been good on clay, even her loss at Wimbledon to Coco, was no entirely shocking, (in retrospect) given how deep, an inspired Gauff was able to make it.
My main issue, is what does Venus have to gain from continuing playing? Maybe it makes her happy to be with her sister and such, but these increasingly uncharacteristic first round losses are starting to inflict irreplaceable damage to her legacy.

She can still be involved in tennis, through her fashion design. But watching her struggle around the court truly hurts me.
 
Mainad

Mainad

Bionic Poster
She will turn 40 this time next year and that would seem a suitable moment to hang up her racquet after one of the most distinguished careers in tennis (7 Slams including 5 at Wimbledon and 2 in the home event in New York).

But it's her choice of course. If she still enjoys the rigours of the tour, who are we to criticise her?
 
Shaolin

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
She could have retired 100 years ago. She must just love to play.

Losing to Mattek Sands might be a neon sign to retire or train harder though.
 
I

ihitlikeagirl

Semi-Pro
Mainad said:
She will turn 40 this time next year and that would seem a suitable moment to hang up her racquet after one of the most distinguished careers in tennis (7 Slams including 5 at Wimbledon and 2 in the home event in New York).

But it's her choice of course. If she still enjoys the rigours of the tour, who are we to criticise her?
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That's my guess too, that she is waiting until she turns 40. I also think, total speculation, but that she was doing well and kind of on the rise just about 1-2 years ago, so maybe it is just starting to sink in that it's getting close to retirement time. Like every time she plays well, it gives her hope that she can continue to do well. I do also think with the health things that have happened to her, it might be a triumph of another sort just to be out there playing and winning sometimes. I had hopes that she would get one last title but it's not looking too great. I just think that would be a great way to go out.
 
B

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
I think Venus Williams is well aware of every reason that would justify quick retirement. So, I assume she has her reasons for continuing to play. She had that semi-resurgence 2-3 years ago. I doubt she thinks that's gonna happen again.

I made the point on a previous thread that she might enjoy it and she might do it to pad her bank account - and someone pointed out that "she's already set in terms of money." While that's true, there's PLENTY of wealthy people who want more money. There's no magical cutoff for everyone where additional money "doesn't matter." Even if not for her personally, any extra money can go to her charities/foundation, or her family - and she can earn it doing something she generally enjoys.
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
In addition to the reason stated above, I have thought for some while that Venus and Serena will retire from singles at the same time. So she's essentially waiting for Serena to get to 25!
 
conjoshruk

conjoshruk

Semi-Pro
ibbi said:
She might just enjoy it? The travelling certainly, maybe even the training? She's spent so long in her career being unhealthy maybe she is just happy being able to do her thing to whatever minor degree she is capable.
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Yeah I know, it's just hard for me watching her lose so early these days.
 
conjoshruk

conjoshruk

Semi-Pro
I
Mainad said:
She will turn 40 this time next year and that would seem a suitable moment to hang up her racquet after one of the most distinguished careers in tennis (7 Slams including 5 at Wimbledon and 2 in the home event in New York).

But it's her choice of course. If she still enjoys the rigours of the tour, who are we to criticise her?
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im not criticising her, just more questioning what drives/motivates her to still play at this time in her career. I'm a huge Venus fan and always will be.
 
conjoshruk

conjoshruk

Semi-Pro
socalmd123 said:
She gets to play a game and gets paid for it. What else is she going to do? She should play as long as she wants and/or until she fails to be competitive.
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Yeah, I really hope she proves me wrong and wins the US Open this year or makes another deep run.
 
Jokervich

Jokervich

Hall of Fame
Why are people so bothered about people carrying themselves with "grace" and "respect" (whatever that means)? I came to watch tennis, not a virtue signalling competition. That's why I love Kyrgios, dude just doesn't care about this politically correct nonsense.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Mainad said:
She will turn 40 this time next year and that would seem a suitable moment to hang up her racquet after one of the most distinguished careers in tennis (7 Slams including 5 at Wimbledon and 2 in the home event in New York).

But it's her choice of course. If she still enjoys the rigours of the tour, who are we to criticise her?
Click to expand...

While I can see your point, its not criticism to suggest she retire before she becomes like one of those players who stopped being a threat say, a number of years in the past, and take forever to retire, doing their record no favors early exists, or no realistic chance of winning. Everyone has their own reasons for leaving, but even Capriati retired just two years after her last major; on the other hand, Richard Krajicek retied nearly a decade after winning his lone major, and never again displayed the game which won him that Wimbledon title.

Sure, a player can go on as long as they desire, but a tennis career is (in part) is also about your record, and if one continues to have a poor showing (or in some players' cases, outright career disasters), its just does not paint a good picture. It does not remove majors victories, but hanging around accomplishes little, other than having your surviving generation and younger players all make their names on reminding the world that you're not the player you used to be.
 
conjoshruk

conjoshruk

Semi-Pro
Jokervich said:
Why are people so bothered about people carrying themselves with "grace" and "respect" (whatever that means)? I came to watch tennis, not a virtue signalling competition. That's why I love Kyrgios, dude just doesn't care about this politically correct nonsense.
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Well, if you don't respect your opponent after losing,
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
While I can see your point, its not criticism to suggest she retire before she becomes like one of those players who stopped being a threat say, a number of years in the past, and take forever to retire, doing their record no favors early exists, or no realistic chance of winning. Everyone has their own reasons for leaving, but even Capriati retired just two years after her last major; on the other hand, Richard Krajicek retied nearly a decade after winning his lone major, and never again displayed the game which won him that Wimbledon title.

Sure, a player can go on as long as they desire, but a tennis career is (in part) is also about your record, and if one continues to have a poor showing (or in some players' cases, outright career disasters), its just does not paint a good picture. It does not remove majors victories, but hanging around accomplishes little, other than having your surviving generation and younger players all make their names on reminding the world that you're not the player you used to be.
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So true, exactly what I was trying to say.
 
Cashman

Cashman

Hall of Fame
Nuke said:
Even without winning much any more, Venus probably has a few well-paying endorsements that depend on her being an active player.
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Yup. She is still the sixth highest earner on the WTA, taking home over $10M last year in prize money, appearance fees, royalties and endorsements. A lot of that money disappears when she stops touring - either because of contract clauses, or her reduced ability for her profile to drive sales.

If someone wanted to pay me eight figures to fly around the world losing tennis matches, you can bet your arse I'd do it.

THUNDERVOLLEY said:
a tennis career is (in part) is also about your record, and if one continues to have a poor showing (or in some players' cases, outright career disasters), its just does not paint a good picture
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I think most fans do not truly understand the lack of ****s that pretty much every pro gives about this sort of thing. Most athletes stop playing because it's not financially worthwhile, they've had enough of the grind, or they get injured - often some combination of the three. Those that do actually stop because they can't compete any more, do it because they are incredibly competitive and hate losing - not because they are afraid of 'ruining their legacy'.

Which it doesn't anyway - Ken Rosewall was losing matches on the ATP into the '80s, and occasionally played (and lost) on the Australian domestic pro circuit after he retired. Nobody gives a **** about that when assessing his career. If anyone gives it a thought, it's just "dude must have really loved playing tennis".
 
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THUNDERVOLLEY

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Cashman said:
and lost) on the Australian domestic pro circuit after he retired. Nobody gives a **** about that when assessing his career. If anyone gives it a thought, it's just "dude must have really loved playing tennis".
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Hardly. People have said of players long past their winning (majors) days: "They're losing often" / "Why are they still playing?" / "This does not look good" and other rational observations. This is not some office job, where someone can just grow older, plug into their position and conceivably still achieve what the job demands of them. This is athletics, where your skill and physical ability is (obviously) tied to the ability to win the sport's top events. Some seem to think of players not in a "well, they should play as long as.." way, but in a fanboy way, treating them like tireless video game characters one can restart ad infinium where there's no consequences, legacy or career. Hell, many fans (on this board) want Federer to go on and on, to win that extra major or two--why? Because they are thinking of separating him one step ahead of the "other two guys," which is an legacy/career (and image)-related concern, not a "because he likes to play" notion by any stretch of the imagination.
 
Cashman

Cashman

Hall of Fame
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Hardly. People have said of players long past their winning (majors) days: "They're losing often" / "Why are they still playing?" / "This does not look good" and other rational observations. This is not some office job, where someone can just grow older, plug into their position and conceivably still achieve what the job demands of them. This is athletics, where your skill and physical ability is (obviously) tied to the ability to win the sport's top events. Some seem to think of players not in a "well, they should play as long as.." way, but in a fanboy way, treating them like tireless video game characters one can restart ad infinium where there's no consequences, legacy or career. Hell, many fans (on this board) want Federer to go on and on, to win that extra major or two--why? Because they are thinking of separating him one step ahead of the "other two guys," which is an legacy/career (and image)-related concern, not a "because he likes to play" notion by any stretch of the imagination.
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i think you have a pretty bizarre take on something that is just a job to the people doing it.
 
skaj

skaj

Legend
DreddyTennis45 said:
Not anymore. She's barely done nothing of note in 10 years. Should have just quit while she was ahead instead of embarassing herself
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She is not embarrassing herself, she is enjoying herself. She is almost 40 and suffering from an autoimmune disorder, nothing embarrassing about that. Btw she was in grand slam finals a couple of years ago.

If we go by you criteria, Navratilova was embarrassing herself, so was Evert, so was Graf.
 
V

vaillancourt

Rookie
skaj said:
She is not embarrassing herself, she is enjoying herself. She is almost 40 and suffering from an autoimmune disorder, nothing embarrassing about that. Btw she was in grand slam finals a couple of years ago.

If we go by you criteria, Navratilova was embarrassing herself, so was Evert, so was Graf.
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Graf retired at barely turning 30.
 
F

fed1

Professional
She is starting to remind me of those once great boxers who takes one to many fights at the end of their career.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Cashman said:
i think you have a pretty bizarre take on something that is just a job to the people doing it.
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It is clear you have a very poor understanding of / and have known/heard any professional athletes, because to a large number of those who have reached the heights of their sport, it is more than "just a job."
 
THUNDERVOLLEY

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
fed1 said:
She is starting to remind me of those once great boxers who takes one to many fights at the end of their career.
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A bi odd, but your point is not too off the mark; in past years, some older boxers would not stop until they were so thoroughly--and routinely defeated, that all they invested (their passion, legacy, etc.) was being overshadowed by spending too many years beyond the realistic point of ever winning a division belt ever again, losing to just about anyone.
 
D

Deleted member 77403

Guest
Her slam winning days are over, but she can play as long as she wants to, if it makes her happy. It can't always be about records and stats and numbers.
 
Slightly D1

Slightly D1

Professional
Too many people think in terms of their perspective as a fan and feeling disappointment over losses. But in life outside of being on the court, if you can make 6-8 figures while traveling the world, playing tennis in front of thousands of people, and have still have fun while being a top 50 type player even when declining, then I would do that too. Its not easy to quit something that you have done your entire life and if the money is still there even if winning tournaments might not be, why not continue until personally satisfied?

She could also never make it past a 3rd or 4th round in another tournament for the rest of her career and it would not impact her legacy.
 
Zardoz7/12

Zardoz7/12

Hall of Fame
She should continue and play more doubles, the Williams sisters are trailblazers for longevity at this point, they've been on the tour for at least 20+ years now.

Venus seems to love Tennis and when you love something it means more than winning or making money...ask Federer he truly loves tennis and he's an apt example.
 
C

Cecilia

Rookie
I would totally love being in her shoes and so would Million of other people. Earning so much money while traveling the world and playing in front of thousands. Yes she is old but she Is still one of the best people in her profession. It’s crazy to think about it but there are so many people that played tennis their whole life and they still couldn’t even archive what Venus does almost being 40. I think she doesn’t retire because she really loves Tennis. I mean if you are really passionate about something and successful it is really hard to give that up. Even if you are not the player you once were.
Also with her being the competitor she is Venus probably thinks she got one good run in her.
 
Phoenix1983

Phoenix1983

G.O.A.T.
Cashman said:
No athlete on the planet gives a **** about fans moaning about 'legacy' when they are still earning good money doing something they enjoy.
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Also, even if they did care, it doesn't diminish their legacy at all - Connors didn't have a slam deducted for every year he played on after 35, for instance.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Cashman said:
No athlete on the planet gives a **** about fans moaning about 'legacy' when they are still injury-free and earning good money doing something they enjoy.
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Off in never-never-land again. The point is that pro athletes have their values of a legacy/achievement--particularly the more accomplished athletes. They are not weekend park players who have nothing invested in that time spent--this is not only a profession, but for the best, it was a passion, and yes, in reality, they care about who they were/what they did in the sport.
 
THUNDERVOLLEY

THUNDERVOLLEY

G.O.A.T.
Cashman said:
How is that changed one iota by playing on when you're not winning?
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Aging through the years--long after the ability to win majors has faded away--only to be target practice for younger generations, cannot be considered fun. If you actually believe Venus is not seriously interested in adding more majors to her career record, and is only showing up for the "fun" of it, then you have been watching something else. The problem is when desire is no longer supported by ability, which is the point she appears to have reached.
 
Cashman

Cashman

Hall of Fame
THUNDERVOLLEY said:
Aging through the years--long after the ability to win majors has faded away--only to be target practice for younger generations, cannot be considered fun.
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I suppose this is you speaking from your long experience on the ATP Tour.

Plenty of players play on long beyond the time they are factors in Slams. I doubt Ken Rosewall was bumming around at the NSW Hardcourt Championships in the '80s because he was jonesing for the $500 winner's cheque.
 
V

vaillancourt

Rookie
skaj said:
Exactly, and she was "embarrassing herself" at 27.
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Graf won Wimbledon, U.S Open, and YEC aged 27. :-D She had a couple embarassing losses to Coetzer (her career long nemisis) at 27, but I think those other big titles and spending most of her age 27 at #1 more than suffices.

Not a big Graf fan but she won the French Open and reached the Wimbledon final in her last 2 slams around turning 30, then retired. She retired still on top of the game. Maybe she didnt even want to risk retiring any other way but that, many champions cant handle retiring as shadows of themselves or as pretenders. I have no problem with Venus playing as long as she wants, but clearly she isnt going to retire in the same position, which is fine if that is what she is content with.
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
upchuck said:
Love Venus but she should've retired years ago.
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1. Venus is epic.
2. In 2017 she was the only woman to make it to the second week of 8 straight slams, won the most prize money for the year, made it to the AO final, R4 at the FO, The Wimbledon final, The USO Semis (2 points from the final) and the World Tour Finals-Final match. I'd hardly say having 2 bad years means retire, or Nadal/Federer would have never had 2017. She deserves to bow out on her own terms after next year.
 
upchuck

upchuck

Hall of Fame
MichaelNadal said:
1. Venus is epic.
2. In 2017 she was the only woman to make it to the second week of 8 straight slams, won the most prize money for the year, made it to the AO final, R4 at the FO, The Wimbledon final, The USO Semis (2 points from the final) and the World Tour Finals-Final match. I'd hardly say having 2 bad years means retire, or Nadal/Federer would have never had 2017. She deserves to bow out on her own terms after next year.
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Nadal and Federer have been at a very different place from Venus for a very long time. 2017 was an anomaly for her whereas (insert Federer and Nadal's bad years this decade) have been anomalies for them. She's spent most of the last decade being a shell of the player she once was. Truth is, save for a few Wimbledon in the second half of the noughts, she changed post-2003 and never was the same as before. Now she is like two steps slower than she once was.
 
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