As opposed to Court who literally won 11 slams at the Australian Open which none of the top players contested? At the 1961 Australian Open the only players in the draw were Australian. Literally only Australians played it that year and she won.Serena has had the benefit of weak competition through the majority of her career. She's never had to go up against another goat contender. So, putting Serena at #5 all time is a legitimate argument.
As opposed to Court who literally won 11 slams at the Australian Open which none of the top players contested? At the 1961 Australian Open the only players in the draw were Australian. Literally only Australians played it that year and she won.
If people want to run the line that Serena's opposition was weak need to immediately discount almost half of Court's slams then.
She needs 24-25 to definitely pass Graf. Graf’s additional titles, dominance, golden slam, better distribution etc put her above Serena’s 23.
Fine by me.
Navratilova, Evert, Graf > Serena > Court.
But for all those people who claim Serena is greater than Evert, Navratilova and Graf based solely on slam count, and greater than Court based on Courts competition.... I say your logic is flawed. You can't have it both ways.
Yes, there's always different criteria. Some people say Serena is the best, because at her best she would beat them at their best.
That’s the one. And Serena has padded her stats in 30s vs non existent field (up until last couple of years) same as big 3 have done since 2017.You mean calendar golden slam. Also, dominance I would not include here, we know what happened to her main rival.
How often is Serena at her best though? I think Graf, Navratilova and Evert brought their "A" game more often than Serena has. Court a little before my time. Consistency and mental strength is high on that list of criteria.
Serena always plays good tennis, has a monstrous strength compared to other opponents.
But she won less than Court, Evert, Martina and Graf and the big 4 are always a little higher in the all-time ranking.
You need to get more, Serena. And still play 4-5 years.
That’s the one. And Serena has padded her stats in 30s vs non existent field (up until last couple of years) same as big 3 have done since 2017.
That’s the one. And Serena has padded her stats in 30s vs non existent field (up until last couple of years) same as big 3 have done since 2017.
My list never changed Navratillova Graf Serena Everett.
I put Martina ahead off Graf and Serena.Without Chris Everett Martina would have won 25 slams easily.She has an amazing rival.Graf numbers inflated because of seles incident.Serena because WTA was joke after Henin and Clijsters retired.5 less Slams and still greater? Even Martina herself concedes Serena is the greatest.
Chris is mentally the strongest player the game has ever seen.Even in her playing days so many players think they have huge chance against her at the end of the day she wins not the others and sometimes with dominant scorelines.if you want to talk weak era - step forward the best vulture of all time - Chris Evert. In terms of talent - Seles, Henin and Venus would all have taken Chrissie to the cleaners, on a like for like basis.
If you rate steffi higher you must monica tooSerena always plays good tennis, has a monstrous strength compared to other opponents.
But she won less than Court, Evert, Martina and Graf and the big 4 are always a little higher in the all-time ranking.
You need to get more, Serena. And still play 4-5 years.
Both had weak competition for a long period of timePlease remind of Grafs rivals and about how she didn't pad her stats after Seles stabbing.
Not a Serena fan by any means but she only blown out after she gave a birth and she is really old.Graf retired age 30.I still put Navratillova ahead off Graf and Serena.Graf calender golden slam was so special but Seles stabbing inflated her numbers.If you look at Graf's runner-ups in slams and Serena's you can see that even in losses Graf was competitive. Serena has lost 10 finals and been blown out in most of them. GOAT's don't get blown out like that. On mental toughness alone, Graf, Martina and Evert are superior.
Yeah say what you want about Serena but as another poster mentioned she's got the big 6 prizes - I could see maaaaybe making an argument for Graf because a calendar Slam (let alone a Golden Slam) is always extremely special but anyone who's arguing that Serena isn't the GOAT and is somehow outside the top 5 (realistically top 3) of all time is really, really working hard to justify a dumb take. She's the GOAT and once she gets #24 there won't be an argument.Lol good try. Serena is considered the greatest by many. And you don't even have her top 4. She has more slams than ANYONE in the open era. The greatest.
You can argue Evert, Martina and Graf but Court doesn't come into consideration.
She didn't win more than Serena. Almost half of her slams were from a tournament that wasn't considered a slam at the time and wasn't played by the top players + she played as little as 4 matches to win some of the tournaments.
You know full well that many of those titles are meaningless. The tour isn't structured like that anymore. Players don't play every week like that anymore. No player is ever going to approach those numbers of titles. Martina and Chrissy played a few HOFers same with Graff. Serena has played a ton.Steffi has 107 titles, serena only has 72...
Martina has 167.
Serena doesnt lead in any catagory. Chrissy has a 91% winning percentage.
Explain to us why serena is the goat, what record does she hold aside from playing forever
You know full well that many of those titles are meaningless. The tour isn't structured like that anymore. Players don't play every week like that anymore. No player is ever going to approach those numbers of titles. Martina and Chrissy played a few HOFers same with Graff. Serena has played a ton.
If you are going to base total titles as Greatest ever then no one will ever surpass Martina. Martina wasn't making slam finals at 38. After making slam finals at 18. Serena has probably played a dozen HOFers actually probably more. Martina and Evert played each other. That was it. Austin retired at 19, there was no one for year till Graf. It was a dead era. They played King when she was old, when they were in their primes they had no one. Serena in her Prime had at least 5 HOFers her sister, Hingis, Davenport, Clisters, Henin, Sharapova and many more. Get realMeaningless to a williams fan maybe, lmao.
Serena has 72 titles in 24 years. I'll do the math since your a williams fan.
She averages three tournament wins a year. Thats a dominate player?
If you are going to base total titles as Greatest ever then no one will ever surpass Martina. Martina wasn't making slam finals at 38. After making slam finals at 18. Serena has probably played a dozen HOFers actually probably more. Martina and Evert played each other. That was it. Austin retired at 19, there was no one for year till Graf. It was a dead era. They played King when she was old, when they were in their primes they had no one. Serena in her Prime had at least 5 HOFers her sister, Hingis, Davenport, Clisters, Henin, Sharapova and many more. Get real
LOL Martina v Graf? Martina was already on her down swing. If Martina was so good how come she wasn't making slam finals at 37 and 38? Who were Martinis rivals besides Evert? Who? Who is a Hall of fame from the era? Goolagong? Once the younger player came along she was done. That aint the case with Serena.Ahh, you dont know history, thats the problem.
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I could go on with more facts, but like you said "they are meaningless" lmao.
Take care
Martina wasn't making slam finals at 38.
Oh lord. Martina was a great player. She wasn't better than Serena. When she was wining most of her slams she had one player to worry about. Again if you want to compare Sue Baker or Pam shriver to the players Serena has faced over the years then bless ya.Except winning the 2006 us open mixed doubles at the age of 50.
But ya...
I hope your better at tennis than talking about it
She wasn't better than Serena
I don't think Serena is the GOAT. I don't think women's tennis has one single tennis GOAT.Steffi has 107 titles, serena only has 72...
Martina has 167.
Serena doesnt lead in any catagory. Chrissy has a 91% winning percentage.
Explain to us why serena is the goat, what record does she hold aside from playing forever
If you are going to base total titles as Greatest ever then no one will ever surpass Martina. Martina wasn't making slam finals at 38. After making slam finals at 18. Serena has probably played a dozen HOFers actually probably more. Martina and Evert played each other. That was it. Austin retired at 19, there was no one for year till Graf. It was a dead era. They played King when she was old, when they were in their primes they had no one. Serena in her Prime had at least 5 HOFers her sister, Hingis, Davenport, Clisters, Henin, Sharapova and many more. Get real
Not a Serena fan by any means but she only blown out after she gave a birth and she is really old.Graf retired age 30.I still put Navratillova ahead off Graf and Serena.Graf calender golden slam was so special but Seles stabbing inflated her numbers.
Again most his loses came very late in her career.Steffi only retired age 30.2001 USO, 2004 Wimby and 2011 USO she lost finals in straight sets with at least one set with only 1-2 games won. That's every bit as bad as her recent post-baby losses. She only has one 3 set loss amongst her 10 losses.
I doubt you'll find many of Graf's 9 losses as uncompetitive. Let alone guys like Nadal and Federer that I don't think have ever been beat in 3 sets in a major final.