Only three S & Volley specialists left in the Top 100: a historical first ?

terribleIVAN

terribleIVAN

Hall of Fame
Fed, Raonic, Deliciano.

That's it.

The new generations are allergic to the net, and don't have a clue how to play there.
It's TERRA INCOGNITA, not to trespass.

Fed can win Wimbledon until he's 50.
 
terribleIVAN

terribleIVAN

Hall of Fame
Centrius said:
¿Fred?¿Raonic? Try Karlovic, Brown and/or old Zverev.
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Brown top 100 ??

Karlovic isn't really a S & V specialist, more like a big server who tries to finish points quickly because he can't move from the back. His volleys are quite average and executed from the middle of the court.
 
C

Centrius

Professional
terribleIVAN said:
Brown top 100 ??

Karlovic isn't really a S & V specialist, more like a big server who tries to finish points quickly because he can't move from the back. His volleys are quite average and executed from the middle of the court.
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That's why I said "and/or".

What are you talking about? Karlovic certainly is a S & V.
 
C

ChrisRF

Legend
terribleIVAN said:
Brown top 100 ??

Karlovic isn't really a S & V specialist, more like a big server who tries to finish points quickly because he can't move from the back. His volleys are quite average and executed from the middle of the court.
Click to expand...
And? That would be the most reasonable approach anyway, even for Karlovic. S&V is just speculating and hoping the return won’t be good enough.

With a normal offensive approach the first forehand against a weak return is just as lethal as S&V, but you have the advantage that after a weaker serve the point isn’t finished with the passing shot and you still have a chance to construct the point otherwise.

Okay, small chance to do that for Karlovic, but in general S&V is just a bad strategy.

I agree though that it’s a pity how unimportant net play has become in general.
 
SamprasisGOAT

SamprasisGOAT

Hall of Fame
ChrisRF said:
And? That would be the most reasonable approach anyway, even for Karlovic. S&V is just speculating and hoping the return won’t be good enough.

With a normal offensive approach the first forehand against a weak return is just as lethal as S&V, but you have the advantage that after a weaker serve the point isn’t finished with the passing shot and you still have a chance to construct the point otherwise.

Okay, small chance to do that for Karlovic, but in general S&V is just a bad strategy.

I agree though that it’s a pity how unimportant net play has become in general.
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Tell that to laver, McEnroe, Becker, edberg, Sampras, rafter
 
C

ChrisRF

Legend
SamprasisGOAT said:
Tell that to laver, McEnroe, Becker, edberg, Sampras, rafter
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Other racquet technology back then! And other surfaces as well, but the racquets/strings are the main reason IMO. Back then there was much more time to react at the net and less spin to handle. A passing shot from behind the baseline was almost impossible with wood.
 
SamprasisGOAT

SamprasisGOAT

Hall of Fame
tonylg said:
We understand some people want to see nothing but baseline bots mindlessly bashing from the back of the court.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that all you should see is serve and volley.

The baseline bot fans are terrified of variety.

It's not that scary, really.
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Top post Tony
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
terribleIVAN said:
Fed, Raonic, Deliciano.

That's it.

The new generations are allergic to the net, and don't have a clue how to play there.
It's TERRA INCOGNITA, not to trespass.

Fed can win Wimbledon until he's 50.
Click to expand...

1k8x94.jpg


:cool:
 
James P

James P

G.O.A.T.
Pospisil seems like he'll be back in the top 100 next season. That said, I doubt he climbs much higher than 30th or so.
 
terribleIVAN

terribleIVAN

Hall of Fame
What i find atrocious is when any of the Top 100 finds itself at the net in need of a volley, he just doesn't have a clue how to execute.

Tennis is supposed to be a complete sport, and volleying is part of it.

Today's players seem terrified of it and panic when a ball comes their way at the net.
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
terribleIVAN said:
What i find atrocious is when any of the Top 100 finds itself at the net in need of a volley, he just doesn't have a clue how to execute.

Tennis is supposed to be a complete sport, and volleying is part of it.

Today's players seem terrified of it and panic when a ball comes their way at the net.
Click to expand...

Your dislike for Federer tells me that you are not quite sincere here, so is there an ever bigger trend that we observe?

:cool:
 
T

tonylg

Legend
terribleIVAN said:
What i find atrocious is when any of the Top 100 finds itself at the net in need of a volley, he just doesn't have a clue how to execute.

Tennis is supposed to be a complete sport, and volleying is part of it.

Today's players seem terrified of it and panic when a ball comes their way at the net.
Click to expand...

Lendl was like that. He employed Tony Roache and spent hundreds of hours learning to play at the net. Number 1 player in the world, worked and worked at it until he was competent in an effort to win at the All England Club .. and still couldn't do it.

Imagine how he feels now that baseline bots can win Wimbledon over and over without any of those skills.
 
ForumMember

ForumMember

Hall of Fame
tonylg said:
Above average? Compared to whom?

Laver
Newcombe
McEnroe
Becker
Cash
Edberg
Stich
Sampras
Federer

Compared to that lot, he's totally incompetent.
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well as per the very concept of Tennis, ball is to be hit after first bounce. People playing volley basically go against the spirit of Tennis. A real Tennis fan would never love volleys.
 
T

tonylg

Legend
Although the dribble below could be written off as complete ignorance, it does actually highlight a real problem with the drastic assault on the spirit and character of tennis.

ForumMember said:
well as per the very concept of Tennis, ball is to be hit after first bounce. People playing volley basically go against the spirit of Tennis. A real Tennis fan would never love volleys.
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Using poly strings in oversized racquets actually goes against the spirit of tennis. The text below is from the official rules of tennis, in relation to spaghetti string jobs and string savers that gripped the ball .. and completely relevant to poly:

The spirit of this rule is to prevent undue spin on the ball that would result in a change in the character of the game. The stringing must be made so that the moves between the strings will not exceed what is possible for instance with 18 mains and 18 crosses uniformly spaced and interlaced in a stringing area of 75 square inches (484 sq. cm).


What is being discussed above is indeed the result of undue spin changing the character of the game.
 
T

Tennis_Hands

Banned
tonylg said:
Although the dribble below could be written off as complete ignorance, it does actually highlight a real problem with the drastic assault on the spirit and character of tennis.



Using poly strings in oversized racquets actually goes against the spirit of tennis. The text below is from the official rules of tennis, in relation to spaghetti string jobs and string savers that gripped the ball .. and completely relevant to poly:

The spirit of this rule is to prevent undue spin on the ball that would result in a change in the character of the game. The stringing must be made so that the moves between the strings will not exceed what is possible for instance with 18 mains and 18 crosses uniformly spaced and interlaced in a stringing area of 75 square inches (484 sq. cm).


What is being discussed above is indeed the result of undue spin changing the character of the game.
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I am glad that someone is able to look beyond the usual banter and actually pays attention to what the game actually IS. The spaghetti strings were indeed seen as a violation of the limits within which a fair skilled competition is held. The only explanation as to why there haven't been limitations to the current tech is that the business side has taken over the pure sporting side of things and desires for "more" of everything are now seen as the only vehicle to "success" of the game as a whole. There are signs that that is changing, but unfortunately, the developments will likely involve more of the same mistakes (keeping the cash cows and compromising with everything else).

:cool:
 
Fabresque

Fabresque

Legend
terribleIVAN said:
Fed, Raonic, Deliciano.

That's it.

The new generations are allergic to the net, and don't have a clue how to play there.
It's TERRA INCOGNITA, not to trespass.

Fed can win Wimbledon until he's 50.
Click to expand...
You’d probably have a case for Feliciano Lopez being one. Federer doesn’t use it much anymore, as an occasional tactic to throw opponents off. Raonic? Maybe during his better years, but he’s another one that just hugs the baseline nowadays, remember he is shorter than Medvedev.
 
el sergento

el sergento

Hall of Fame
terribleIVAN said:
What i find atrocious is when any of the Top 100 finds itself at the net in need of a volley, he just doesn't have a clue how to execute.

Tennis is supposed to be a complete sport, and volleying is part of it.

Today's players seem terrified of it and panic when a ball comes their way at the net.
Click to expand...

Have you seen Tsitsipas play or Shapovalov? If anything, the new crop of players is far more willing to finish upfront than the Lost Gen, or even many of the baseliners of the 90's. If you had watched the Tsitsipas Nadal match at the ATP finals I think you would have been amazed at how well.......................... Nadal volleyed. And I'm not talking about easy put aways, I'm talking digs, stretched volleys, high backhand volleys etc. Tsitsipas and Shapo, in particular, are quite accomplished at net considering their age.

Also, S&V is dead because the return is so strong these days. It has nothing to do with a mindset or a lack of volley skills.
 
TearTheRoofOff

TearTheRoofOff

G.O.A.T.
Red Rick said:
It is. I use it merely as proof that tennis would be much more broken with the good ol' 90s court speeds.
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I dunno man; admittedly a minute sample size, but I thought the 2010 Paris Masters showed some absolutely fantastic tennis (with S&V specialist Llodra reaching the SF(!)), and that was made super quick. Even the shock factor wasn't enough to quash the quality.
 
Third Serve

Third Serve

Talk Tennis Guru
Red Rick said:
It is. I use it merely as proof that tennis would be much more broken with the good ol' 90s court speeds.
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Agreed. I do think there should be more variation in court speed (maybe boost Wimbledon up to Halle speed?), but we're too far ahead in racket technology to go back to the 90's.

I had an interesting discussion a while back with someone who suggested putting restrictions on racket technology at specifically Wimbledon. That would be interesting but I doubt its practicality.
 
polksio

polksio

Semi-Pro
terribleIVAN said:
What i find atrocious is when any of the Top 100 finds itself at the net in need of a volley, he just doesn't have a clue how to execute.

Tennis is supposed to be a complete sport, and volleying is part of it.

Today's players seem terrified of it and panic when a ball comes their way at the net.
Click to expand...
Volleys are a game of deflection, of absorbing most of the pace and redirecting the rest to the open space and racquets are lighter than ever. That's my take on it on why modern volleyers would suck.
 
ForehandRF

ForehandRF

Legend
Third Serve said:
Agreed. I do think there should be more variation in court speed (maybe boost Wimbledon up to Halle speed?), but we're too far ahead in racket technology to go back to the 90's.

I had an interesting discussion a while back with someone who suggested putting restrictions on racket technology at specifically Wimbledon. That would be interesting but I doubt its practicality.
Click to expand...
Imagine Wimbledon playing like Stuttgart :cool:
 
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