Only three S & Volley specialists left in the Top 100: a historical first ?

King No1e

Legend
Fedr is not a S&V specialist. He's just an aggressive all-courter. Same goes for Tsitsipas, Dimitrov, and Kyrgios.

Raonic and Lopez are really the only major ones left. Karlovic could count too, but he's more of a pure servebot.
 

UnderratedSlam

Hall of Fame
Many players have great volleying skills, they just choose to use them sparingly for obvious reasons relating to not wanting to become kamikaze madmen setting themselves up for defeat.

There are plenty of great volleyers still.
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
Fed, Raonic, Deliciano.

Fed can win Wimbledon until he's 50.
Neither Raonic (is this a joke?) or Fed are serve and volley specialists. Neither ventures near the net more than 15% of the time, whereas true serve & volley guys came in at will: Pete, Mac, Edberg, Becker.

For comparison purposes, in the 2001 Wimbledon match between Fed and Pete, over five sets, Roger approached the net 98 times and served/volleyed 88 times. In the 2019 Wimbledon final over five sets, Fed approached the net 70 times and served and volleyed 11 points!
 

ForumMember

Hall of Fame
Above average? Compared to whom?

Laver
Newcombe
McEnroe
Becker
Cash
Edberg
Stich
Sampras
Federer

Compared to that lot, he's totally incompetent.
With the return Djokovic has, all from this list would think twice before coming to net behind their serves. No matter what serve they do, they'll be passed left and right and will be made to look incompetent on net.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
Neither Raonic (is this a joke?) or Fed are serve and volley specialists. Neither ventures near the net more than 15% of the time, whereas true serve & volley guys came in at will: Pete, Mac, Edberg, Becker.

For comparison purposes, in the 2001 Wimbledon match between Fed and Pete, over five sets, Roger approached the net 98 times and served/volleyed 88 times. In the 2019 Wimbledon final over five sets, Fed approached the net 70 times and served and volleyed 11 points!
People confuse being able to play that style with being a purveyor of that style. Sad.

:cool:
 

Sport

Legend
Fed ain't no S&V specialist, though he does have a somewhat illusory knack for it.
The older he gets, the more he approaches the net. Against Djokovic he approached the net a lot in the return games. However, most of his return points came from the baseline in the form of lethal forehands.
 

Sunny Ali

Hall of Fame
Fed, Raonic, Deliciano.

That's it.

The new generations are allergic to the net, and don't have a clue how to play there.
It's TERRA INCOGNITA, not to trespass.

Fed can win Wimbledon until he's 50.
Omala ... otha Ivan, you sure know how to stir up things around here. Federer a S&V specialist :-D:laughing:
 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
People confuse being able to play that style with being a purveyor of that style. Sad.

:cool:
Claiming Raonic (of all people) is a "serve and volley specialist" is one of the more embarrassingly ridiculous things ever posted here. And Fed was never a specialist serving and volleying either. He was just talented enough to play that when on fast surfaces.

It's unreal that some people have no clue what actual serve and volley specialists looked like and will be way too lazy to send 4 minutes educating themselves:

 

BeatlesFan

Talk Tennis Guru
With the return Djokovic has, all from this list would think twice before coming to net behind their serves. No matter what serve they do, they'll be passed left and right and will be made to look incompetent on net.
More hilarity. Agassi's return was equal to Djokovic and many put him ahead because he returned on surfaces Djokovic never encountered: carpet, fast slick grass and ridiculously fast HC's. Edberg, Becker and Sampras NEVER looked "incompetent" against Agassi.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
You're asking this of a guy who (in)famously posted the classic chestnut, "Sampras had to rush the net because he had no groundstrokes." Still the single most obtuse comment ever made here, ahead of Clayqueen's "Agassi never won the FO."
These days I am more into sports fishing: catch a fish and then let it off the hook. The satisfaction goes towards the next time I am catching it. I used to catch them and cook them.

:cool:
 
Claiming Raonic (of all people) is a "serve and volley specialist" is one of the more embarrassingly ridiculous things ever posted here. And Fed was never a specialist serving and volleying either. He was just talented enough to play that when on fast surfaces.

It's unreal that some people have no clue what actual serve and volley specialists looked like and will be way too lazy to send 4 minutes educating themselves:

Wonderful
 

tonylg

Professional
With the return Djokovic has, all from this list would think twice before coming to net behind their serves. No matter what serve they do, they'll be passed left and right and will be made to look incompetent on net.
WTF was only medium, not fast .. indoors with a high and perfect bounce. With all of Djokovic's amazing returning skills, Thiem beat him and 38 year old Federer thrashed him. And you think he'd get near prime Edberg, Becker and Sampras on fast grass, with a 90 sq inch racquet and no poly? :-D :-D :-D Love is blind. They would embarrass him.

Look at the videos posted of those players mentioned above. They routinely made volleys and half volleys like those. Players today DO NOT have those skills. They have a small subset of skills, which only work with specific equipment on specific surfaces. We are getting a cut down version of tennis and young fanbois don't even realise it.
 

terribleIVAN

Hall of Fame
Look at the videos posted of those players mentioned above. They routinely made volleys and half volleys like those. Players today DO NOT have those skills. They have a small subset of skills, which only work with specific equipment on specific surfaces. We are getting a cut down version of tennis and young fanbois don't even realise it.
Exactly what i meant.
 
WTF was only medium, not fast .. indoors with a high and perfect bounce. With all of Djokovic's amazing returning skills, Thiem beat him and 38 year old Federer thrashed him. And you think he'd get near prime Edberg, Becker and Sampras on fast grass, with a 90 sq inch racquet and no poly? :-D :-D :-D Love is blind. They would embarrass him.

Look at the videos posted of those players mentioned above. They routinely made volleys and half volleys like those. Players today DO NOT have those skills. They have a small subset of skills, which only work with specific equipment on specific surfaces. We are getting a cut down version of tennis and young fanbois don't even realise it.
Perfect description
 

TearTheRoofOff

Hall of Fame
The older he gets, the more he approaches the net. Against Djokovic he approached the net a lot in the return games. However, most of his return points came from the baseline in the form of lethal forehands.
Indeed, and in the early noughties he was quite the net rusher.
 

tonylg

Professional
Perfect description
Thanks, but I doubt they even watched the videos, let alone even begin to understand the skills on display.

How do you move to the net like those guys when all your shots are hit with an open stance while propping on your outside leg? You can't. How do you close on the net to cover the pass when you don't have an overhead you can rely on? You can't. How you do make low first volleys and consistently punch them deep into the corner when you struggle to even make some high volleys while 3 feet from the net? You can't.

Again, I'm not suggesting that the French Open be sped up. There's a place for baseline botting tennis. Some people obviously enjoy it. I loved the clash of styles between Sampras and Agassi .. McEnroe and Borg .. Becker and Lendl .. Rafter and Hewitt .. etc. But the situation where baselining is the only tennis on the entire tour is honestly a disgrace to those in charge of the game. It's not that way because current players have more skills than previous, quite the opposite.
 
Thanks, but I doubt they even watched the videos, let alone even begin to understand the skills on display.

How do you move to the net like those guys when all your shots are hit with an open stance while propping on your outside leg? You can't. How do you close on the net to cover the pass when you don't have an overhead you can rely on? You can't. How you do make low first volleys and consistently punch them deep into the corner when you struggle to even make some high volleys while 3 feet from the net? You can't.

Again, I'm not suggesting that the French Open be sped up. There's a place for baseline botting tennis. Some people obviously enjoy it. I loved the clash of styles between Sampras and Agassi .. McEnroe and Borg .. Becker and Lendl .. Rafter and Hewitt .. etc. But the situation where baselining is the only tennis on the entire tour is honestly a disgrace to those in charge of the game. It's not that way because current players have more skills than previous, quite the opposite.
I totally agree
 

tonylg

Professional
You mean the slowed down wimbledon ?

Fast court Wimbledon relied on Serve and volley.
I'd actually say fast court Wimbledon relied on both. Connors, Borg, Lendl and Agassi relied far more on their return game than their serve and volley game. Despite having one of the best serves in history, it took Goran 1000 tries to win because his return game was not as strong as Sampras or Becker.

A knee jerk reaction to the two best servers in the history of tennis (throw Becker and Philippoussis in there too) coming along at the same time has taken what was a very balanced sport of varying styles and made it completely one dimensional.

Remember that during the "dark years" that people who were probably in nappies at the time often quote, Agassi, Courier and Lendl were actually doing well at Wimbledon. Rafter, Cash and Edberg didn't have massive serves, yet players like them have also been banished from the sport.

So don't wonder why the entire top 10 hails from Europe when all we see is clay court tennis on different coloured courts.
 

zep

Hall of Fame
Pure serve and volley is an archaic style. Things evolve. Glad it died out. Serve and volley is now used as an occasional surprise tactic and it works brilliantly. No one is stupid enough to come in behind everything like players from the past. They would get beat most of the time. Most players today are bigger, stronger, faster and have better baseline/return games. And if we put them on a very fast court (CPI ~50) then it will be serve fest, not a S n V contest. And no, Fedrerer is not a serve and volleyer. He does it more than others but he is mostly an aggressive baseliner.
 

zep

Hall of Fame
WTF was only medium, not fast .. indoors with a high and perfect bounce. With all of Djokovic's amazing returning skills, Thiem beat him and 38 year old Federer thrashed him. And you think he'd get near prime Edberg, Becker and Sampras on fast grass, with a 90 sq inch racquet and no poly? :-D :-D :-D Love is blind. They would embarrass him.
That's a stupid argument. If Djokovic was born 10-15 years earlier, he wouldn't play the same way he does now. If you bring back Sampras, Becker and Edberg from the '90s with a time machine, they would struggle with the pace of the modern game. Everything evolves with time. Tennis today is different from how it was even 10 years ago.
 

ForumMember

Hall of Fame
He'd do what, make volleys and smashes?

If Becker can't teach you to do that, you're just a klutz.
So If player A hires Borg as his coach then he should spend time learning how to play with wooden rackets ?

Educate me why someone should spend time in learning some art which is obsolete or near;y redundant or don't have lot of use for them.
 

ForumMember

Hall of Fame
More hilarity. Agassi's return was equal to Djokovic and many put him ahead because he returned on surfaces Djokovic never encountered: carpet, fast slick grass and ridiculously fast HC's. Edberg, Becker and Sampras NEVER looked "incompetent" against Agassi.
I don't know about that time, but with the modern rackets, balls and courts if Edberg had rushed to net against Djokovic like he used in his time, he would be made to look like utter fool. Federer can do serve and volley and few others can do occasionally, but there is a reason they don't do that as main tactic. None of them aspire to have a Mischa Zverev career.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
Pure serve and volley is an archaic style. Things evolve. Glad it died out. Serve and volley is now used as an occasional surprise tactic and it works brilliantly. No one is stupid enough to come in behind everything like players from the past. They would get beat most of the time. Most players today are bigger, stronger, faster and have better baseline/return games. And if we put them on a very fast court (CPI ~50) then it will be serve fest, not a S n V contest. And no, Fedrerer is not a serve and volleyer. He does it more than others but he is mostly an aggressive baseliner.
Don't worry, you are here only for a short time.

:cool:
 

tonylg

Professional
So If player A hires Borg as his coach then he should spend time learning how to play with wooden rackets ?

Educate me why someone should spend time in learning some art which is obsolete or near;y redundant or don't have lot of use for them.
I actually agree with you. The rubbish that passes as tennis today only requires a sub-set of the skills that champions of the past possess. I've said that many times and that's why current records are quite meaningless. We are in a rubbish era, hopefully it passes.
 

ForumMember

Hall of Fame
I actually agree with you. The rubbish that passes as tennis today only requires a sub-set of the skills that champions of the past possess. I've said that many times and that's why current records are quite meaningless. We are in a rubbish era, hopefully it passes.
surely Nadal's forehand is one of the skills that Edberg and Becker used to possess.

You are clearly one of the brightest around.
 

tonylg

Professional
surely Nadal's forehand is one of the skills that Edberg and Becker used to possess.

You are clearly one of the brightest around.
How old are you? Because if you knew anything about Becker you'd realise his forehand was devastating and get this, he frequently hit banana forehands with a 92 sq inch frame (weighing more than an RF97) strung with a full bed of gut.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
How old are you? Because if you knew anything about Becker you'd realise his forehand was devastating and get this, he frequently hit banana forehands with a 92 sq inch frame (weighing more than an RF97) strung with a full bed of gut.
They think that Nadal invented the "banana" shot. By "them" I refer to the ignoramii species.

:cool:
 

tonylg

Professional
They think that Nadal invented the "banana" shot. By "them" I refer to the ignoramii species.

:cool:
Yep. I don't for a moment suggest that Nadal's forehand is not awesome, but with a 100 sq inch racquet and RPM Blast, it's like winning the 100m freestyle while wearing flippers. Becker did it without flippers.

Watch and learn, kiddies. *


* Just the forehands, I don't expect you to understand those strange shots hit before the ball bounces.
 

ForumMember

Hall of Fame
How old are you? Because if you knew anything about Becker you'd realise his forehand was devastating and get this, he frequently hit banana forehands with a 92 sq inch frame (weighing more than an RF97) strung with a full bed of gut.
sorry man.. if you say not only in volleys but in FH also Becker was better than Nadal, I would say you are little blinded by your romanticism with the past. You are not unique a lot of ppl suffer from that. If you think players from previous era were necessarily better than modern players in all aspects you are clearly anti-evolutionary. Thinks evolve and you better accept that than being buried in your past and scoffing at anything modern.
 

Tennis_Hands

Talk Tennis Guru
Yep. I don't for a moment suggest that Nadal's forehand is not awesome, but with a 100 sq inch racquet and RPM Blast, it's like winning the 100m freestyle while wearing flippers. Becker did it without flippers.

Watch and learn, kiddies. *


* Just the forehands, I don't expect you to understand those strange shots hit before the ball bounces.
Mouth-watering stuff. It almost turned back the clock. I am so very sorry that we didn't have HD recording back then.

:cool:
 

tonylg

Professional
sorry man.. if you say not only in volleys but in FH also Becker was better than Nadal, I would say you are little blinded by your romanticism with the past. You are not unique a lot of ppl suffer from that. If you think players from previous era were necessarily better than modern players in all aspects you are clearly anti-evolutionary. Thinks evolve and you better accept that than being buried in your past and scoffing at anything modern.
Sorry, my old eyes missed the part where you answered how old you are?

I just don't want to be too mean if you're still under 10.
 

tonylg

Professional
I just recommend that they watch AT LEAST that video. The shot against Lendl in the AO final at the conclusion of the third set is as good as it gets in that category. Also, "clip that hair, Boris"!

:-D
I posted a video of one of the Becker / Sampras WTF matches earlier that had even better ones, but I think our little mate has been told by mum it's time to do his homework.
 

terribleIVAN

Hall of Fame
sorry man.. if you say not only in volleys but in FH also Becker was better than Nadal, I would say you are little blinded by your romanticism with the past.
You're a smart talking idiot.

Rafa does have a good forehand, which is (almost) on the level of Agassi. But both Becker and Sampras had a better one than Andre, and were frequently winning the FH to FH exchanges.

And you're seriously arguing Rafa has better volleys than Pete and Boris ?

REALLY ??

ROFTL
 
Top