Bad strokes by ATGs

D

dominikk1985

Legend
Which ATGs had a clear weakness in one stroke? Only players with 6+ slams are eligible to have a cut off.

The Djokosmash is of course famous even though the smash isn't as big anymore as it used to be because players go to the net less and if they do the poly strings allow for easier passing shots.

Apart from the Djokosmash I would also say edbergs and connors forehand was pretty weak. Pete's backhand also wasn't great albeit he could occasionally hit a good one with it.
 
RaulRamirez

RaulRamirez

Legend
dominikk1985 said:
Which ATGs had a clear weakness in one stroke? Only players with 6+ slams are eligible to have a cut off.

The Djokosmash is of course famous even though the smash isn't as big anymore as it used to be because players go to the net less and if they do the poly strings allow for easier passing shots.

Apart from the Djokosmash I would also say edbergs and connors forehand was pretty weak. Pete's backhand also wasn't great albeit he could occasionally hit a good one with it.
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The "Djokosmash" really doesn't come into play that often, and while a weakness, isn't that bad. He's also the most balanced player - forehand and backhand - of all the ATGs.
As I picture it, Sampras' backhand was probably stronger than Becker's - both had their moments, but not great.
I think Connors' forehand was just fine - given the technology and how the game was played at that time.
 
dr325i

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
RaulRamirez said:
I missed the semis, but over the years, Fed's overhead - including from the backhand side - is very strong. It's almost shocking when either he or Rafa misses one - even the very tricky ones.
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"Tsitsipas conceded a break point in his first game as cries of “Let's go Roger, let's go” rang around London's O2 Arena but he survived the scare and broke Federer in the next game, taking advantage of two missed overheads from the Swiss."
 
RaulRamirez

RaulRamirez

Legend
dr325i said:
"Tsitsipas conceded a break point in his first game as cries of “Let's go Roger, let's go” rang around London's O2 Arena but he survived the scare and broke Federer in the next game, taking advantage of two missed overheads from the Swiss."
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I read some reports on the match, but had to work when it was on, and too busy since. But you must admit that over the years, Fed;s overhead has been "money" and he still gets up and hits a great one from the backhand side as well.
 
clout

clout

Hall of Fame
Sampras BH, Edberg FH, Nadal’s serve, and Djokosmash come to mind. Mac’s groundstokes in general were awkward asf but he more than made up for that with his serve/net game.
 
BHud

BHud

Hall of Fame
RaulRamirez said:
The "Djokosmash" really doesn't come into play that often, and while a weakness, isn't that bad. He's also the most balanced player - forehand and backhand - of all the ATGs.
As I picture it, Sampras' backhand was probably stronger than Becker's - both had their moments, but not great.
I think Connors' forehand was just fine - given the technology and how the game was played at that time.
Click to expand...
Are you kidding me...for a professional player, it's rubbish...
 
Musterrific

Musterrific

Hall of Fame
dominikk1985 said:
Which ATGs had a clear weakness in one stroke? Only players with 6+ slams are eligible to have a cut off.

The Djokosmash is of course famous even though the smash isn't as big anymore as it used to be because players go to the net less and if they do the poly strings allow for easier passing shots.

Apart from the Djokosmash I would also say edbergs and connors forehand was pretty weak. Pete's backhand also wasn't great albeit he could occasionally hit a good one with it.
Click to expand...

I was going to mention Edberg's very stiff looking, flat forehand. It's amazing he achieved as much as he did with that thing.
 
BeatlesFan

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
dominikk1985 said:
Which ATGs had a clear weakness in one stroke? Only players with 6+ slams are eligible to have a cut off.

The Djokosmash is of course famous even though the smash isn't as big anymore as it used to be because players go to the net less and if they do the poly strings allow for easier passing shots.

Apart from the Djokosmash I would also say edbergs and connors forehand was pretty weak. Pete's backhand also wasn't great albeit he could occasionally hit a good one with it.
Click to expand...


Agassi weakness? Volleys
Djoker weaknesses? Volleys and overheads
Edberg weakness? Forehand
Connors weakness: Low forehands

I see absolutely no weaknesses in the games of Sampras, Becker, McEnroe, Lendl or Fed, aside from mental strength issues with Lendl and Roger. If you want to address mental weakness specifically, that's another topic and another thread. Conditioning among ATG's also could be addressed.
 
King No1e

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Djokosmash obviously.
Sampras - backhand was quite average with club-player technique. Safe to say he didn't win his 14 Slams off his backhand.
Edberg - Forehand was a weak stroke. His serve, backhand, and net game made up for it.
Nadal - Save for the few years (2010-2011, 2019) when he changed his motion, the Nadal 1st serve has been a massive Achilles heel. Didn't do much more than get the point started.
Federer - Every shot at 8-7 40-15 :happydevil:
 
R

Robert Baratheon

Guest
Rosstour said:
Rafa's BH is far more dangerous than his FH IMO
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tenor.gif
 
R

Robert Baratheon

Guest
King No1e said:
Maybe he meant Rafa can hit it harder and flatter than his FH. Which is true, but there may be no single stroke more devastating and effective in tennis history than the Nadal forehand.
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Karla's serve though.
But if you remove serve then I agree totally.
 
King No1e

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Robert Baratheon said:
Karla's serve though.
But if you remove serve then I agree totally.
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Karlovic serve may be the best stroke in history, but in terms of effectiveness and impact on the game, no single shot has been as perpetually unanswerable and single-handedly crushed as many dreams and denied ATGs history as the Nadal forehand. Nobody has an answer to that shot. The closest is Djokovic, but even he's only a 50/50 shot against Rafa.
 
R

Robert Baratheon

Guest
King No1e said:
Karlovic serve may be the best stroke in history, but in terms of effectiveness and impact on the game, no single shot has been as perpetually unanswerable and single-handedly crushed as many dreams and denied ATGs history as the Nadal forehand. Nobody has an answer to that shot. The closest is Djokovic, but even he's only a 50/50 shot against Rafa.
Click to expand...
Agree with the rest but the real impact on the game is when other players try to emulate your game.
No one tried Rafa's game and Roger's for that matter coz they are unique.
A shïtload of new players are trying to emulate Novak's game though.
Novak game is the modern textbook game of tennis. It's the real impact.

Rafa will have more impact through his warrior spirit compared to his game. Roger through his popularity as he brings many more fans to the sport.
Also possibly as a result of Fraud playing SnV many young players are trying it now a days.

Different roles they have to play.
 
King No1e

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Robert Baratheon said:
Agree with the rest but the real impact on the game is when other players try to emulate your game.
No one tried Rafa's game and Roger's for that matter coz they are unique.
A shïtload of new players are trying to emulate Novak's game though.
Novak game is the modern textbook game of tennis. It's the real impact.

Rafa will have more impact through his warrior spirit compared to his game. Roger through his popularity as he brings many more fans to the sport.
Also possibly as a result of Fraud playing SnV many young players are trying it now a days.

Different roles they have to play.
Click to expand...
Tsitsipas, Dimitrov and Shapo are all trying to be discount Fedrs.
 
R

Robert Baratheon

Guest
King No1e said:
Tsitsipas, Dimitrov and Shapo are all trying to be discount Fedrs.
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Only Grigor.
Tsits and Shapo are different.
Tsits doesn't have the Fraud characteristic BH slice. Forehand too is different than Roger.
Return patterns are different too.
 
Shaolin

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
RaulRamirez said:
The "Djokosmash" really doesn't come into play that often, and while a weakness, isn't that bad. He's also the most balanced player - forehand and backhand - of all the ATGs.
As I picture it, Sampras' backhand was probably stronger than Becker's - both had their moments, but not great.
I think Connors' forehand was just fine - given the technology and how the game was played at that time.
Click to expand...

It is shockingly bad for a pro player, much less the possible future GOAT. That's why it stands out so much. Kind of perplexing as he has a great serve. There is no reason he should have such a comparatively bad overhead to the rest of his game.
 
hotasice

hotasice

Semi-Pro
Shaolin said:
It is shockingly bad for a pro player, much less the possible future GOAT. That's why it stands out so much. Kind of perplexing as he has a great serve. There is no reason he should have such a comparatively bad overhead to the rest of his game.
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It's interesting to hear Boris Becker talk about trying to coach the suck out of that overhead and how flustered he got when everything he tried didn't work. I guess even Djoko can hit some shots like the rest of us.
 
Shaolin

Shaolin

G.O.A.T.
hotasice said:
It's interesting to hear Boris Becker talk about trying to coach the suck out of that overhead and how flustered he got when everything he tried didn't work. I guess even Djoko can hit some shots like the rest of us.
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Interesting I didn't know Becker really tried to fix his overhead but I suppose all of his coaches have.
 
C

Chadalina

Guest
Serena - low deep Fh's
Agassi - return of serve (most aced man in the history of tennis, but hit a couple good ones)
 
Red Rick

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
Chadalina said:
Serena - low deep Fh's
Agassi - return of serve (most aced man in the history of tennis, but hit a couple good ones)
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Actually as of now both Deliciano and Federer have eaten more aces than Agassi.

Federer will probably take the all time lead shortly
 
B

BTURNER

Legend
First if you understand the role Graf's slice played in her unique style and tactics, you would not call it a weakness. It was perfect to rally with and set up her forehand. She put a lot of slice on that with her height and weight going down into it, and it stayed low, obliging all those two handers on the tour to hit up with topspin which sat up after the bounce rather nicely for her to run around and whack. The slice was her most steady deep shot, and it was actually rather difficult to be too aggressive with unless you had the exquisite timing and power of Seles.

Two big weaknesses I can think of in former number 1 women were the Tracy Austin serve, and the Seles volleys. Evert's serve was no more than decent and she improved it with time but Austin's was worse. Seles really needed that swing volley, because the more classic volleys were pretty tough with her grips
 
Roddick85

Roddick85

Hall of Fame
The Nadal serve was certainly a weak shot when his career was starting out. It's crazy to think he was able to win tournaments/slams with such a weak serve, just shows how great the rest of his game was. Kudos to him for making that shot a bigger weapon over the years which I think helped him become a legit contender on hard courts.

The Roddick backhand while very consistent and dependable was always a weak shot IMO. I remember one of my tennis coach joking just about how slow/weak that shot was.
 
MichaelNadal

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
King No1e said:
Maybe he meant Rafa can hit it harder and flatter than his FH. Which is true, but there may be no single stroke more devastating and effective in tennis history than the Nadal forehand.
Click to expand...

You better slay lol

Roddick85 said:
The Nadal serve was certainly a weak shot when his career was starting out. It's crazy to think he was able to win tournaments/slams with such a weak serve, just shows how great the rest of his game was. Kudos to him for making that shot a bigger weapon over the years which I think helped him become a legit contender on hard courts.

The Roddick backhand while very consistent and dependable was always a weak shot IMO. I remember one of my tennis coach joking just about how slow/weak that shot was.
Click to expand...

It was never nearly as weak as people make it seem. Look at Fed's BP conversion at his peak against Rafa even in slams sometimes. Nadal always had deceptive placement and spin on his serve even though it has drastically improved of course. I remember matches where he would seal a win with an ace over a decade ago, like against Blake in Miami 08 I think
 
D

dominikk1985

Legend
RaulRamirez said:
The "Djokosmash" really doesn't come into play that often, and while a weakness, isn't that bad. He's also the most balanced player - forehand and backhand - of all the ATGs.
As I picture it, Sampras' backhand was probably stronger than Becker's - both had their moments, but not great.
I think Connors' forehand was just fine - given the technology and how the game was played at that time.
Click to expand...

Yes, wrote that in my post already, smash isn't that big of a deal anymore for a baseliner in this age of tennis.
 
R

Ray Mercer

Hall of Fame
MichaelNadal said:
You better slay lol



It was never nearly as weak as people make it seem. Look at Fed's BP conversion at his peak against Rafa even in slams sometimes. Nadal always had deceptive placement and spin on his serve even though it has drastically improved of course. I remember matches where he would seal a win with an ace over a decade ago, like against Blake in Miami 08 I think
Click to expand...

Nadal was just lucky he was serving lefty. If he was a righty he’d be eating that serve for lunch on a daily basis. Nadal has a weak kick and a weak flat serve from the deuce side.
 
T

tonylg

Legend
Truly poor strokes:

1. Djokosmash
2. Djokovolley
3. Daylight
4. Lendl's volley *
5. Edberg's forehand

* Much improved in second half of career


Not really poor strokes, but not strong for an ATG:

Connors, Agassi, Nadal serve
Federer, Sampras, McEnroe backhand return of serve
Nadal, Djokovic low groundstrokes and approaches
Connors, McEnroe, Wilander forehand
Lendl Backhand
 
Keizer

Keizer

Hall of Fame
King No1e said:
Karlovic serve may be the best stroke in history, but in terms of effectiveness and impact on the game, no single shot has been as perpetually unanswerable and single-handedly crushed as many dreams and denied ATGs history as the Nadal forehand. Nobody has an answer to that shot. The closest is Djokovic, but even he's only a 50/50 shot against Rafa.
Click to expand...

I'm sure you were exaggerating with the "nobody has an answer part", but Nalbandian and Davydenko did put a few beatings on the Rafa FH, all from the backhand wing.
 
flanker2000fr

flanker2000fr

Hall of Fame
AnOctorokForDinner said:
Considering the fundamental strokes, Edberg's forehand, hands down.
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I would take Edberg's FH over Becker's BH any day. True, it looked awkward and didn't hit a lot of winners on this side, but it was a solid shot with some great attributes (especially on the return and on the lob). Becker's BH, by comparison, was breaking down a lot more, especially under pressure.
 
flanker2000fr

flanker2000fr

Hall of Fame
tonylg said:
Truly poor strokes:

1. Djokosmash
2. Djokovolley
3. Daylight
4. Lendl's volley *
5. Edberg's forehand

* Much improved in second half of career


Not really poor strokes, but not strong for an ATG:

Connors, Agassi, Nadal serve
Federer, Sampras, McEnroe backhand return of serve
Nadal, Djokovic low groundstrokes and approaches
Connors, McEnroe, Wilander forehand
Lendl Backhand
Click to expand...

I would argue that Lendl's backhand, once he had properly fixed it by working relentlessly on it around 1983, became one of the best shots on tour. Certainly not at the level of his FH, but still extremely solid, with an ability to deliver killer passing shots.
 
T

tonylg

Legend
flanker2000fr said:
I would argue that Lendl's backhand, once he had properly fixed it by working relentlessly on it around 1983, became one of the best shots on tour. Certainly not at the level of his FH, but still extremely solid, with an ability to deliver killer passing shots.
Click to expand...
I agree. Lendl under Tony Roache improved everything, serve as well.

There isn't a terrible shot in that second group.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
 
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