Neither Raonic (is this a joke?) or Fed are serve and volley specialists. Neither ventures near the net more than 15% of the time, whereas true serve & volley guys came in at will: Pete, Mac, Edberg, Becker.Fed, Raonic, Deliciano.
Fed can win Wimbledon until he's 50.
With the return Djokovic has, all from this list would think twice before coming to net behind their serves. No matter what serve they do, they'll be passed left and right and will be made to look incompetent on net.Above average? Compared to whom?
Laver
Newcombe
McEnroe
Becker
Cash
Edberg
Stich
Sampras
Federer
Compared to that lot, he's totally incompetent.
Neither Raonic (is this a joke?) or Fed are serve and volley specialists. Neither ventures near the net more than 15% of the time, whereas true serve & volley guys came in at will: Pete, Mac, Edberg, Becker.
For comparison purposes, in the 2001 Wimbledon match between Fed and Pete, over five sets, Roger approached the net 98 times and served/volleyed 88 times. In the 2019 Wimbledon final over five sets, Fed approached the net 70 times and served and volleyed 11 points!
The older he gets, the more he approaches the net. Against Djokovic he approached the net a lot in the return games. However, most of his return points came from the baseline in the form of lethal forehands.Fed ain't no S&V specialist, though he does have a somewhat illusory knack for it.
The older he gets, the more he approaches the net. Against Djokovic he approached the net a lot in the return games. However, most of his return points came from the baseline in the form of lethal forehands.
Fed, Raonic, Deliciano.
That's it.
The new generations are allergic to the net, and don't have a clue how to play there.
It's TERRA INCOGNITA, not to trespass.
Fed can win Wimbledon until he's 50.
Claiming Raonic (of all people) is a "serve and volley specialist" is one of the more embarrassingly ridiculous things ever posted here. And Fed was never a specialist serving and volleying either. He was just talented enough to play that when on fast surfaces.People confuse being able to play that style with being a purveyor of that style. Sad.
You're asking this of a guy who (in)famously posted the classic chestnut, "Sampras had to rush the net because he had no groundstrokes." Still the single most obtuse comment ever made here, ahead of Clayqueen's "Agassi never won the FO."Do you have data to back that up?
More hilarity. Agassi's return was equal to Djokovic and many put him ahead because he returned on surfaces Djokovic never encountered: carpet, fast slick grass and ridiculously fast HC's. Edberg, Becker and Sampras NEVER looked "incompetent" against Agassi.With the return Djokovic has, all from this list would think twice before coming to net behind their serves. No matter what serve they do, they'll be passed left and right and will be made to look incompetent on net.
You're asking this of a guy who (in)famously posted the classic chestnut, "Sampras had to rush the net because he had no groundstrokes." Still the single most obtuse comment ever made here, ahead of Clayqueen's "Agassi never won the FO."
WonderfulClaiming Raonic (of all people) is a "serve and volley specialist" is one of the more embarrassingly ridiculous things ever posted here. And Fed was never a specialist serving and volleying either. He was just talented enough to play that when on fast surfaces.
It's unreal that some people have no clue what actual serve and volley specialists looked like and will be way too lazy to send 4 minutes educating themselves:
With the return Djokovic has, all from this list would think twice before coming to net behind their serves. No matter what serve they do, they'll be passed left and right and will be made to look incompetent on net.
Look at the videos posted of those players mentioned above. They routinely made volleys and half volleys like those. Players today DO NOT have those skills. They have a small subset of skills, which only work with specific equipment on specific surfaces. We are getting a cut down version of tennis and young fanbois don't even realise it.
Karlovic isn't really a S & V specialist, more like a big server who tries to finish points quickly because he can't move from the back. His volleys are quite average and executed from the middle of the court.
Perfect descriptionWTF was only medium, not fast .. indoors with a high and perfect bounce. With all of Djokovic's amazing returning skills, Thiem beat him and 38 year old Federer thrashed him. And you think he'd get near prime Edberg, Becker and Sampras on fast grass, with a 90 sq inch racquet and no poly? Love is blind. They would embarrass him.
Look at the videos posted of those players mentioned above. They routinely made volleys and half volleys like those. Players today DO NOT have those skills. They have a small subset of skills, which only work with specific equipment on specific surfaces. We are getting a cut down version of tennis and young fanbois don't even realise it.
Indeed, and in the early noughties he was quite the net rusher.The older he gets, the more he approaches the net. Against Djokovic he approached the net a lot in the return games. However, most of his return points came from the baseline in the form of lethal forehands.
Perfect description
I totally agreeThanks, but I doubt they even watched the videos, let alone even begin to understand the skills on display.
How do you move to the net like those guys when all your shots are hit with an open stance while propping on your outside leg? You can't. How do you close on the net to cover the pass when you don't have an overhead you can rely on? You can't. How you do make low first volleys and consistently punch them deep into the corner when you struggle to even make some high volleys while 3 feet from the net? You can't.
Again, I'm not suggesting that the French Open be sped up. There's a place for baseline botting tennis. Some people obviously enjoy it. I loved the clash of styles between Sampras and Agassi .. McEnroe and Borg .. Becker and Lendl .. Rafter and Hewitt .. etc. But the situation where baselining is the only tennis on the entire tour is honestly a disgrace to those in charge of the game. It's not that way because current players have more skills than previous, quite the opposite.
Wimbledon is won by serve-return battle and Djokovic has by far the greatest serve+return combination on grass in this decade.
You mean the slowed down wimbledon ?
Fast court Wimbledon relied on Serve and volley.
NNNOOO!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry man but there are babolat users like me who once in a while who go up to the net.Ban players over 6'5
Ban polyester strings
Kill Babolat
Most players today are bigger, stronger, faster and
WTF was only medium, not fast .. indoors with a high and perfect bounce. With all of Djokovic's amazing returning skills, Thiem beat him and 38 year old Federer thrashed him. And you think he'd get near prime Edberg, Becker and Sampras on fast grass, with a 90 sq inch racquet and no poly? Love is blind. They would embarrass him.
completely reliant on slow courts, oversized racquets and poly strings.
Don't kid yourself, they are actually less skillful now.
NNNOOO!!!!!!!!!!! Sorry man but there are babolat users like me who once in a while who go up to the net.
If Djokovic was born 10-15 years earlier, he wouldn't play the same way he does now.
OK boomer.
So If player A hires Borg as his coach then he should spend time learning how to play with wooden rackets ?He'd do what, make volleys and smashes?
If Becker can't teach you to do that, you're just a klutz.
I don't know about that time, but with the modern rackets, balls and courts if Edberg had rushed to net against Djokovic like he used in his time, he would be made to look like utter fool. Federer can do serve and volley and few others can do occasionally, but there is a reason they don't do that as main tactic. None of them aspire to have a Mischa Zverev career.More hilarity. Agassi's return was equal to Djokovic and many put him ahead because he returned on surfaces Djokovic never encountered: carpet, fast slick grass and ridiculously fast HC's. Edberg, Becker and Sampras NEVER looked "incompetent" against Agassi.
Pure serve and volley is an archaic style. Things evolve. Glad it died out. Serve and volley is now used as an occasional surprise tactic and it works brilliantly. No one is stupid enough to come in behind everything like players from the past. They would get beat most of the time. Most players today are bigger, stronger, faster and have better baseline/return games. And if we put them on a very fast court (CPI ~50) then it will be serve fest, not a S n V contest. And no, Fedrerer is not a serve and volleyer. He does it more than others but he is mostly an aggressive baseliner.
So If player A hires Borg as his coach then he should spend time learning how to play with wooden rackets ?
Educate me why someone should spend time in learning some art which is obsolete or near;y redundant or don't have lot of use for them.
surely Nadal's forehand is one of the skills that Edberg and Becker used to possess.I actually agree with you. The rubbish that passes as tennis today only requires a sub-set of the skills that champions of the past possess. I've said that many times and that's why current records are quite meaningless. We are in a rubbish era, hopefully it passes.
surely Nadal's forehand is one of the skills that Edberg and Becker used to possess.
You are clearly one of the brightest around.
How old are you? Because if you knew anything about Becker you'd realise his forehand was devastating and get this, he frequently hit banana forehands with a 92 sq inch frame (weighing more than an RF97) strung with a full bed of gut.
They think that Nadal invented the "banana" shot. By "them" I refer to the ignoramii species.
sorry man.. if you say not only in volleys but in FH also Becker was better than Nadal, I would say you are little blinded by your romanticism with the past. You are not unique a lot of ppl suffer from that. If you think players from previous era were necessarily better than modern players in all aspects you are clearly anti-evolutionary. Thinks evolve and you better accept that than being buried in your past and scoffing at anything modern.How old are you? Because if you knew anything about Becker you'd realise his forehand was devastating and get this, he frequently hit banana forehands with a 92 sq inch frame (weighing more than an RF97) strung with a full bed of gut.
Yep. I don't for a moment suggest that Nadal's forehand is not awesome, but with a 100 sq inch racquet and RPM Blast, it's like winning the 100m freestyle while wearing flippers. Becker did it without flippers.
Watch and learn, kiddies. *
* Just the forehands, I don't expect you to understand those strange shots hit before the ball bounces.
sorry man.. if you say not only in volleys but in FH also Becker was better than Nadal, I would say you are little blinded by your romanticism with the past. You are not unique a lot of ppl suffer from that. If you think players from previous era were necessarily better than modern players in all aspects you are clearly anti-evolutionary. Thinks evolve and you better accept that than being buried in your past and scoffing at anything modern.
Mouth-watering stuff. It almost turned back the clock. I am so very sorry that we didn't have HD recording back then.
Boring servebots, weren't they?
I just recommend that they watch AT LEAST that video. The shot against Lendl in the AO final at the conclusion of the third set is as good as it gets in that category. Also, "clip that hair, Boris"!
Sorry buddy.. boasting about own old-ness is not something I indulge in.Sorry, my old eyes missed the part where you answered how old you are?
I just don't want to be too mean if you're still under 10.
Sorry buddy.. boasting about own old-ness is not something I indulge in.
sorry man.. if you say not only in volleys but in FH also Becker was better than Nadal, I would say you are little blinded by your romanticism with the past.