Third Serve
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TrueSpecially when predicting hypothetical matches to prove the fav is the best. That’s some reliable proof right there to put a lot of weight on
Who has defeated more pigeons to win their grand slams? Federer or Nadal?
- Thread starter REKX
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Backspin1183
Talk Tennis Guru
Nice stats. Federer > Nadal > Djokovic.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Murray had 91.4% of wins in Slams against non-Djokovic players from 2011 to 2016.
There's evidence to think Murray would win 8 slams without Djokovic.
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What tough slams has nadal won?
Wimbledon 08
AO 09
yes both great
Every other one very weak. Nadal is the weak era champ along with Djokovic LOL.
Yeah, no one cares.He beat Federer to win WIM08 and AO09 and he beat Novak at US10 and US13...
So the answer is 8. How many out of Fed's wins were against prime Nadal and Novak? Just WIM07?
roddick, Nalbandian, Hewitt etc same level as 10/13 Djokovic and old Fed
JaoSousa
Hall of Fame
Another seemingly reasonable Fed fan bites the dust after USO 2019. Sad. Really Sad...
RS
Bionic Poster
At USO Murray would need to take down Cllic who was scary in those last 3 rounds. So disagree.
AO15 I agree with.
RG 2016 I agree with.
I disagree about 2013 AO but it would be a close match.
I agree with your 2nd place options.
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
"Yeah nah no one cares, mental midgets same level as ATGs"
They are yes. Actually tougher, Nalbandian won a couple of slams vs Fed. Old Fed won 0 vs Djokovic.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
So that's close to 10 or 11.
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
:*
tennis_pro
Bionic Poster
The answer is 20 SLams miiihihihiHe beat Federer to win WIM08 and AO09 and he beat Novak at US10 and US13...
So the answer is 8. How many out of Fed's wins were against prime Nadal and Novak? Just WIM07?
Poisoned Slice
Bionic Poster
The sacrificial pigeon.
titoelcolombiano
Legend
Rafa slam final opponents (when he won the title):
Puerta (beat world number 1 Federer in the semi-final on the way)
Federer
Federer
Federer
Federer
Federer
Soderling
Berdych
Djokovic
Federer
Djokovic
Ferrer (beat world number 1 Djokovic in an epic semi-final on the way)
Djokovic
Djokovic
Wawrinka
Anderson
Thiem
Thiem
Medvedev
That's:
Federer x 6 (plus Puerta beating Fed in the semi on the way) - 7
Djokovic x 4 (plus Ferrer beating Djoker in the semi on the way) - 5
Thiem x 2 (second best clay courter in the world at the moment)
Soderling x 1 (Two time RG finalist and conquerer of Nadal at RG in 2009 and Fed at RG in 2010)
Berdych x 1 (Meh, but Berd man did beat Djoker & Fed on the way to the final)
Wawrinka x 1 (Three time slam champion)
Medvedev x 1 (Other than Nadal the hottest hard court player at the end of last season)
Anderson x 1
Let's break Fed's list down:
Rafa x 3 (twice against baby Rafa on grass)
Roddick x 4 (one time slam champion and Fed's pigeon)
Murray x 3 (three time slam champion)
Cilic x 2 - lol
Baby Djokovic x 1
Safin x 1 (two time slam champion)
Hewitt x 1 (two time slam champion and another of Fed's pigeons)
Old Agassi x 1 (quality opponent but well past his best)
Soderling x 1 (Two time RG finalist and conquerer of Nadal at RG in 2009 and Fed at RG in 2010)
Philippoussis x 1 - lol
Baghdatis x 1 - lol
Gonzalez x 1 - lol
That is not even close in terms of difficulty level. Rafa beats the best opponents more often than not, Fed loses against the best opponents more often than not.
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titoelcolombiano
Legend
Glad you asked - not only has Nadal dominated the rivalry and beaten Fed on all surfaces at slam level, a feat Fed has not managed to do to Nadal, Rafa relies less on his favoured surface as a percentage to get those wins:
Nadal total slam wins v Fed:
Clay 6 (66% on clay)
Grass 1
Hard 3
Fed total slam wins v Nadal:
Clay 0
Grass 3 (75% on grass)
Hard 1
You neglect to mention that Federer and Djokovic are Nadal’s pigeons are RG.
Rafa’s best slam wins are Wimbledon 08 and AO 09. Apart from that he’s had a fairytale of mediocre opponents on clay and a lacklustre Djokovic for 2 USO finals, with a few cakewalks thrown.
this isn’t even a debate. Rafa would be on 0 Wimbledon or USO titles had they not slowed both surfaces down to suit his retrieval clay game.
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Phoenix1983
G.O.A.T.
Even as a non-Federer and Nadal fan, you should have been certain that he would.
titoelcolombiano
Legend
I don't neglect to mention it, that is disrespectful to both Federer and Djokovic to make such a claim.
Rafa has beaten the world number 1 on the way to eights of his slams
He has beaten the world number 2 (when Rafa was number 1) for two of his slams
Please name me someone else that has done anything like this...
Fed has never beaten a standing number 1 on the way to a title and when Fed was number 1, he has beaten the number 2 on only 4 occasions.
Tell me again how little competition Rafa had - lol
No it's not a debate, you are frankly embarrassing yourself at this point.
The grass has started to slow at Wimbledon from 2001 onwards so no current player can be judged on how they would adapt to 90's grass but I'm sure if a baseline returner like Agassi can win Wimbledon in the 90's Rafa would be fine.
Out of interest can you provide the court speed indexes for 2007 and 2008 to back your claim? I want to see how much the court slowed between the two years to explain Rafa losing to Fed one year and beating him the next.
1 AO - very good win
12 RG - all weak to average wins apart from 2013
2 Wimbledon - 08 was a tough slam
4 USO - LOL. 2 decent wins over a mediocre Djokovic and then 2 LOLworthy cakewalks. Medvedev choked in the end so I don’t rate that highly either.
Don’t really care about his wins over ranked 1 Federer or Djokovic... ON CLAY. They’re 1 based on mostly the rest of the tour then majorly sucked anytime they faced Nadal at RG.
anyway, Cba responding to your ****. Keep on believing Fed was a tough opponent at RG 2008.
ignored.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
ROFL. I don't know how butthurt you have to be in order to say Medvedev choked, when the truth is he was extremely clutch during the whole match and fought until the last point. I guess coming back from 2-0 down in sets, coming back from 5-2 down in the fifth and almost getting it back to 5-5 (and he didn't do ANYTHING wrong in the last game, Nadal had to win 5 points himself to finish him) is now called choking. Give some credit to Nadal, he beat a very strong opponent in USO 2019 final. Not only you bring Nadal down, you also disrespect Medvedev by saying he choked in a match where he was as clutch as possible.
I watched that match from start to finish. Great comeback but then 5th set he had Nadal on the ropes and missed on too many key points.
StrongRule
Talk Tennis Guru
Yes, and he didn't do anything wrong on any of the 4 break points he missed in the fifth set. Nadal saved them all with winners or forced errors. Nadal was actually the one who did choke a bit at 5-2, while Med kept fighting until the very last point. Calling that a choke is ridiculous. I can also say any 5 set match Federer won in his career was a choke from his opponent, just like you do for Nadal. It's just not serious.
D
Deleted member 21996
Guest
Berretinni.... nuff said
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
D
Deleted member 21996
Guest
Nishikori...nuff said!
Yep.. GoNads has been facing some seriously weak guys...
Rafael Nadal VS Kei Nishikori | Head 2 Head | ATP Tour | Tennis
ATP Tour player match head to head results and stats.
www.atptour.com
DSH
Talk Tennis Guru
Yep.. GoNads has been facing some seriously weak guys...
Rafael Nadal VS Kei Nishikori | Head 2 Head | ATP Tour | Tennis
ATP Tour player match head to head results and stats.
titoelcolombiano
Legend
So wins over the world number 1 at slam level means nothing? lol - ok
Nevermind RG, Nadal has slam wins over the world number 1 at AO, Wimbledon and the US Open - does that mean nothing also? You are hillarious...
Fed and Djokovic for that matter didn't lose to Rafa at RG because they because terrible players all of a sudden. They lost because Rafa is one of the greatest of all time that happens to go to God mode on clay.
Translation - I lost this debate badly
Yugram
Legend
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Fair enough. I still think Medvedev should’ve won the 5th set with the momentum he had. It makes him a lesser opponent than say Safin 05 or Del Potro 09, but still a decent one.
D
Deleted member 21996
Guest
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Yeah especially Roddick at WIM09...
That bh volley in the 2nd set TB my little 5 year old cousin would've put that away. Blew a 6-2 lead in that TB as well, now that's what you call a bloody choke mate.
40-15_forever
New User
LOL. All 12 RG? Once again Nadal's achievements on clay are underrated because he is so far ahead of the field.
My mistake.
Djokovic gave him a good match in 2013, so take that one away.
Only 11 RG win vs pigeons.
Bobby Jr
G.O.A.T.
Depends whether you mean in-general or just in finals.
If it's in-general it's Nadal for sure. If it's in finals it's also Nadal when viewed in context of form across recent times.
Bender
G.O.A.T.
The thing about clamping down on immigration is that real life has a favourable matchup against cheap talk
The_Order
G.O.A.T.
Take away all of federer's Wimbledons then except 07.
Roddick was a dead set choker in 09 final so he doesn't count either.
REKX
Rookie
How, look at the field that Federer had in 2003-2004 time?
Even the players like Thiem and Wawrinka players, who were just outside of the top 3, are very very dangerous.
Federer didn't have such opponents when he was cleaning up on slams.
mike danny
Bionic Poster
Really? Roddick, Hewitt, Safin, Gonzo, Davy weren't dangerous players? Are you kidding me?
Fed has owned Wawrinka by the way, so not sure why you're bringing him up.
Roddick is not an ATG but the current pathetic Gen are Potentials ATGs....Just stop that Nonsense.
Roddick has won 32 ATP titles 5 Master 1000s and a USO. He reached 3 Wimbledon Finals losing to the Greatest Grass court player of Open era. In AO and USO too he lost to Fed in Finals and semis.
He could have easily won 5+ slams in other era.
Actually The last time Nadal beat this pigeon outside clay was in 2013. That pigeon has beaten Nadal 6 times of their last 7 meetings
ibbi
G.O.A.T.
It was a joke, guy. Take a load off.
Won the last 2 slam matches outside of RG: '17 AO and '19 Wim.
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