Who would have won a hypothetical 2008 USO Fedal match?

Fed vs Nadal at 2008 USO: Who would have won?

  • Fed

    Votes: 74 59.2%

  • Nadal

    Votes: 51 40.8%
  • Total voters
    125
Nadalgaenger

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
We ended up with a rather routine thrashing of a nervous and probably run down Murray by a very sharp Federer in the 2008 USO F.

However, we all know that a match against Nadal would not have been as easy. It could have been a 5-set classic.

Fed was a train wreck for much of 2008 and Nadal was very much in his head. Nadal would have been ridiculously pumped up to topple Roger in three consecutive slams.
Still, Fed would have been fresher and court speeds at USO were faster than at 2009 AO.
So if Nadal had made it to the final, who would have won and why?
 
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The Guru

The Guru

Legend
Wow I'm surprised Nadal is leading. Fed was in better form than AO 09 and Nadal was in worse form. USO was a faster court and Fed barely lost so I think Fed's a clear winner here. I'd rather see a confident Murray with better tactics get another shot instead of the scared pushing Murray we got.
 
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Nadalgaenger

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
e
The Guru said:
Wow I'm surprised Nadal is leading. Fed was in better form that AO 09 and Nadal was in worse form. USO was a faster court and Fed barely lost so I think Fed's a clear winner here. I'd rather see a confident Murray with better tactics get another shot instead of the scared pushing Murray we got.
Click to expand...
All we hear about here is how great 2008 Nadal was. Wasn’t he coming off like a 34-match win streak. He was riding high.

Fed was losing to everyone under the sun in 2008. He lost to Blake at Olympics, Simon at Canada, and Karlovic at Cincy. Had he faced Nadal again he would have been a bundle of nerves.
Remember: in 2009 AO Fed had gotten his mojo back somewhat after winning another slam at 2008 USO. YET, he still laid an egg against Nadal in deciding set Of AO.
 
N

ND-13

Hall of Fame
Jonesy said:
Federer should be the better player in that court, but even then he would find a way to lose to Nadal.
Click to expand...

Nadal has won 5 HC including 4 USO. Why are you under rating him ? There is no shame for Fed to lose to Nadal on any surface. The younger ATG is always at an advantage.
 
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ForehandCross

ForehandCross

G.O.A.T.
Jonesy said:
Federer should be the better player in that court, but even then he would find a way to lose to Nadal.
Click to expand...

I am in two minds about this.
Federer will be the better player on court. That's true, he went full super Saiyan against Djokovic and Murray.

But in those years , Federer had a habit of losing matches he was better in to Nadal.

However Federer's confidence was sky high against Murray and Djokovic. Something really did change after Andreev match.USO was faster too.

And if 2009 AO is anything to go by, he will definitely fight for some part of the match.


Logic overwhelmingly says Federer but Nadal's will to win those days was legendary. Can go either way.

Either Federer streamrolls in 4 like he did to Djokovic or Nadal eeks out a 5 setter due to his mental strength.
 
clout

clout

Hall of Fame
Logic has to say Federer, he was playing extremely well that tourney and was seeking his 5th straight USO while Rafa was in his first ever SF at the USO (wow things have changed). However, I wouldn't be surprised if Rafa willed his way to the W like he always used to do back then, especially when Fed is on the other end. He's clearly a much better player on that surface today but his mental strength was out of this world in the late 2000s
 
PeoplesChamp

PeoplesChamp

Legend
Fed in 4. Nadal couldn't get it done on the old UO courts. Too many weak era mugs or a solid baby Murray in his way every time.
 
ForehandCross

ForehandCross

G.O.A.T.
But one thing though, are we considering the Tired Nadal of USO 2008 ? Because Nadal was on fumes that tourney. While Murray played exceptional, Nadal was tired a lot.

If so Federer in 4.
 
Federer and Del Potro

Federer and Del Potro

Bionic Poster
Nadalgaenger said:
Well said. But we can’t say he should have won AO can we? Nadal just was better in 5th.
Click to expand...

Just given the pre-match context - Nadal's long semi and the way the match played out before the fifth set (I haven't rewatched the match but I feel like Federer blew the 3rd set from what I recall.. not unlike Wimbledon 2019) .. I did think pre match, and even during much of the match, it was Federer's to lose.

Credit to Nadal/Delpo for the 5th sets they played though. Federer wasn't even close in either set. Both matches were very winnable was my main point. 'Should have won' might be a bit strong. Though he definitely blew the USO match.

As for his two wins, Roddick's shanked volley cost him the title. And of course nobody expected Rafa to lose at RG. And Fed was very close to defeat versus Haas and Delpo as well.
 
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JaoSousa

JaoSousa

Hall of Fame
Nadalgaenger said:
We ended up with a rather routine thrashing of a nervous and probably run down Murray by a very sharp Federer in the 2008 USO F.

However, we all know that a match against Nadal would not have been as easy. It could have been a 5-set classic.

Fed was a train wreck for much of 2008 and Nadal was very much in his head. Nadal would have been ridiculously pumped up to topple Roger in three consecutive slams.
Still, Fed would have been fresher and court speeds at USO were faster than at 2009 AO.
So if Nadal had made it to the final, who would have won and why?
Click to expand...
Federer would be unable to maintain the emotional acceleration to serve out the fifth set.
 
The Blond Blur

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
I'd actually go RAFA here just due to the psychological factor.

I just think Ol’ Rog would find a way to lose. After RAFA delivered the beat down of all beatdowns at RG, and then usurping the throne at Wimby. RAFA also became #1 after Cincy which would have affected Ol' Rog even more.
 
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metsman

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Similar dynamic to 2011, but I'd trust Fed a bit more in 2008 both because he was better and because Nadal was fresher in 2011 USO than 2008. Still, there's always the chance he loses his head given the matchup with Nadal at the time.
 
Nadal_Django

Nadal_Django

Legend
clout said:
Logic has to say Federer, he was playing extremely well that tourney and was seeking his 5th straight USO while Rafa was in his first ever SF at the USO (wow things have changed). However, I wouldn't be surprised if Rafa willed his way to the W like he always used to do back then, especially when Fed is on the other end. He's clearly a much better player on that surface today but his mental strength was out of this world in the late 2000s
Click to expand...
The same Federer who was scrambling for his life against Andreev!? :oops: In the 2008 AO the excuse for his struggles against Tipsarevic was the mono, not giving credit to the Serbian player whatsoever. What is the excuse for Federer's trouble against Andreev. Mono? Bad back? Too much crowd noise?
 
ForehandCross

ForehandCross

G.O.A.T.
Nadal_Django said:
2008 RG Nadal beats Fed (real match)
2008 WB Nadal beats Fed (real match)
2008 USO Fed beats Nadal (hypothetical)
2009 AO Nadal beats Fed ( real match)
Yep, that logic...:laughing:
Click to expand...

Errr you do know the poll is 50-50 ? Just like WB 2008 turned out to be and AO 2009 was neck and neck?

And you do know that in the same tournament Rafa lost in 4 to a man named Andy Murray? While Federer defeated the Murray in 3 and had defeated Djokovic ?

Not sure I see anything unreasonable seeing the match as 50-50.
 
Z

zuluzazu

Hall of Fame
The poll results are honestly surprising because TTW told me that peak Fed is undefeated in hypotheticals on grass and hc.
 
DjokoGOAT

DjokoGOAT

Semi-Pro
Nadal in 4 sets with fed winning a tiebreaker.
i’d give 06-07 fed a 50% chance vs baby rafa that’s it. 2010 rafa Vs 04-07 fed would be a straight set beatdown. Maybe 2016 version could nick a set.
 
Dekalog12

Dekalog12

New User
I love the whinging about Fed winning hypothetical matches/slams, when 50% votes are for Nadal winning a slam which he lost in the semis in 4, to a guy who lost in the final in 3. I don't mind the disagreement in who would win, it is the meta-commentary which i find laughable.

2008 (or 2004/2005/2006/2007) USO Fed would lose to 2008 USO Nadal (or 2010 USO Nadal/2011 USO Djokovic/2011 USO Nadal/2012 USO Djokovic/2013 USO Nadal/2015 USO Djokovic)

...What did you say Fed fan? You disagree? Lmao. Fed wins all hypothetical matches doesn't he..... Buddy, you are not even wrong; you are committing a 'give a hypothetical match win to Federer'. Its so psychologically transparent and cringe. SMH.
 
Hitman

Hitman

Bionic Poster
MichaelNadal said:
Come through and slay :D
Click to expand...

Kind of like this one
IW 2011 Novak beats Rafa in real match
Miami 2011 Novak beats Rafa in real match
Madrid 2011 Novak beats Rafa in real match
Rome 2011 Novak beats Rafa in real match
RG 2011 Rafa beats Novak in hypothetical match
W 2011 Novak beats Rafa in real match
USO 2011 Novak beats Rafa in real match

In the OP scenario though, a few things to keep in mind, I do think Rafa was fully drained by the time he got to Murray in the semis, he looked to be on his last legs after playing so much. This is a different scenario from AO 2009, where Rafa was much fresher as it was the start of the new season. Federer's back was not bothering him also, his back issues did not start until Paris 2008 where he was forced to withdraw against Blake and needed treatment against Murray, and his poor serving percentage at AO.

However...Rafa was massively in his head at that point, and Federer was vulnerable to losses to anyone really, he had lost to Karlovic, Simon, Blake heading into the USO. Rafa would have had a lot of confidence. The question is, could a mentally damaged Federer take advantage of the tired legs of Nadal, while serving much better himself? Nadal could have edged him out if those demons came back, I don't think that should be taken out of realm of possibility here, I give the slight edge to Rafa here.
 
F

Feddelpo20

New User
Federer would have found a way to lose in 2008 and 2011 to Nadal. If they played in 2017 or 2019 I would actually favour Federer. He seems to have forgotten about the mental block and Nadal is not nearly as good defensively as he once was. I think in 2008 Fed loses in 5 sets, 2011 he loses in 4. But I'd take Fed in 4 for 2017 and 2019.
 
Nadalgaenger

Nadalgaenger

G.O.A.T.
metsman said:
Similar dynamic to 2011, but I'd trust Fed a bit more in 2008 both because he was better and because Nadal was fresher in 2011 USO than 2008. Still, there's always the chance he loses his head given the matchup with Nadal at the time.
Click to expand...
Interesting question.
2011 Nadal would have been much more confident against Fed on a HC than in 2008, having won in rather dominant form in 2010. 2011 Nadal also bullied Fed in Miami SF.

On the other hand, I don’t agree that 2008 Fed was necessarily better. 2008 Fed was a mental midget and the entire season was fraught with losses to guys he had no business losing to.
 
metsman

metsman

G.O.A.T.
Nadalgaenger said:
Interesting question.
2011 Nadal would have been much more confident against Fed on a HC than in 2008, having won in rather dominant form in 2010. 2011 Nadal also bullied Fed in Miami SF.

On the other hand, I don’t agree that 2008 Fed was necessarily better. 2008 Fed was a mental midget and the entire season was fraught with losses to guys he had no business losing to.
Click to expand...
2011 Federer is certainly known for his big mental strength and not losing matches he should have won.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
MeatTornado said:
Federer would play better but still lose because Rafa owned 1000 acres of real estate in Roger's head at that point.
Click to expand...
Or, if Rafa was indeed running on fumes, Fed would have won in 4 and their AO match would have gone differently.

But of course Rafa doesn't show up when he is not in good form.

This is how most mental blocks are removed: when you play your conquerer in sub par form. Do you think Nadal finally snapped the first 7 match losing streak against Nole by beating peak Djokovic? Hell no. He beat a subpar one at MC 2012.
 
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Sabrina

Sabrina

Hall of Fame
mike danny said:
Or, if Rafa was indeed running on fumes, Fed would have won in 4 and their AO match would have gone differently.

But of course Rafa doesn't show up when he is not in good form.

This is how most mental blocks are removed: when you play your conquerer in sub par form. Do you think Nadal finally snappen the first 7 match losing streak against Nole by beating peak Djokovic? Hell no. He beat a subpar one at MC 2012.
Click to expand...

Well that 2012 MC Nadal wasn't losing to any Djokovic, at least on clay.
 
MeatTornado

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
mike danny said:
Or, if Rafa was indeed running on fumes, Fed would have won in 4 and their AO match would have gone differently.

But of course Rafa doesn't show up when he is not in good form.

This is how most mental blocks are removed: when you play your conquerer in sub par form. Do you think Nadal finally snappen the first 7 match losing streak against Nole by beating peak Djokovic? Hell no. He beat a subpar one at MC 2012.
Click to expand...
Their AO match is exactly why I don't believe he would've won a USO match.

After that war with Verdasco and Fed with extra rest couldn't beat him even after making the match physical by dragging it to 5 sets, I don't see Fed beating 08 USO Nadal because he was supposedly running on fumes. He would've stepped it up and found that extra gear in the final.
 
zagor

zagor

Bionic Poster
Tennis_Freak99 said:
What's to discuss here, Fed always wins hypotheticals, it's just that reality is often disappointing ;)
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He has also won a fair share of non-hypotheticals, otherwise he wouldn't have ended up as one of the most accomplished athletes in recent memory.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
MeatTornado said:
Their AO match is exactly why I don't believe he would've won a USO match.

After that war with Verdasco and Fed with extra rest couldn't beat him even after making the match physical by dragging it to 5 sets, I don't see Fed beating 08 USO Nadal because he was supposedly running on fumes. He would've stepped it up and found that extra gear in the final.
Click to expand...
Well, multiple aspects need to be considered:

1. The AO match was on a slow HC, while the USO one wouldn't have been.

2. The AO was at the start of the season when Nadal was much fresher even taking into account the Verdasco match than he was at the 2008 USO after having already played a grueling season.

3. Federer at his best is arguably better at the USO than at the AO based on everything except overall number of titles.
 
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