Pro's Pro Strings!?

ron schaap · Sep 3, 2020

boris_graf said:
Thanks for the data, Lucie. Let me just describe how I calculate this. I take from your report that you can play Blackout 4 hours and Hyper G 7 hours in good quality. so in 28 hours of playing you would need 7 sets of BO and 4 sets of Hyper G.

Here in Germany I get Hyper G for 105 EUR inkl. shipping. For that price I get "only" 4 reels of blackout from PP's own webshop (4*24EUR+6EUR shipping= 102 EUR). I am surprised that you get it cheaper somewhere else. Nevertheless, with 17 string sets per reel, it is in both cases roughly 1,50 EUR per set for BO and 6 EUR for Hyper G

This means that in 28 hours I would spent 7*1,5=10,5 EUR on BO and 4*6=24 EUR on HyperG while having to string three times less. So i would spent 14 EUR but having to string three times more. that would be less than 5 EUR per string job.

Now, for me personally, most of the time I would be willing to pay 5 EUR for not having to string one racket as I could use the time better (i do not watch much tv). For you it is obviously different if stringing is a hobby and fun for you. I think you would agree that both standpoints are equally fine.

Now of course this calculation is only true if "on average" both strings play similiarly good during the 28 hours. and now it gets complicated. I would clearly vote that at similiar age Hyper G plays better than BO. but than a really fresh BO plays better than a rather old Hyper G at least for 1-2 hours. But what does this means "on average" is hard to say for me.

So i guess my point is that i understand why people play PP strings (i do also sometimes) but you also have to acknowledge that it is as rational not play them. People who don't play PP strings are not automatically stupid because they waste lots of EUR on marketing, branding etc. It can be a very rational choice. And I would even say that if you do not string yourself but need to pay for the stringjob, playing PP might be quit irrational in most cases

do you must be very fortunate you live in Germany because at my usual dutch webshop hyper g now costs 118.95. incl vat. And thats the sale price because normally 134/reel! Now how many reels Bo you get for 134? Wel for normal costumers 5 reels of 25.95 euro each and than you get 4 euro back and some more because you spent more than 100euro! In both cases shipping is free. Therefore Hyper g is more than 5 times as expensive. Than how long a string lasts depends on stringing tension, type of racquet, type of play, weather, type court surface. So we cant give exact numbers. But dont tell me that after 4 to 5 hours hyper g has still the same sharp edges and snapback as when its fresh! So no matter how you look at it these premium brands are much more expensive.

lucieisland · Sep 3, 2020

at one point i think my close family is pretty into tennis.
my father was a tennis teacher, my mother played, my two brothers got to a fairly good level of competition, one of them had at one point some atp points, and participated in Futur tournaments, that my two brothers are tennis teachers, that my older brother got tired of stringing for everyone at one point, just for him, my brother and I it was about 10 to 15 rackets a week, that he has 2 children who toy at a fairly good level, and that finally, we string for young people from 13 to 20 years old .. I think that the three of us string around about thirty snowshoes per week.

but our experience is perhaps insufficient in the eyes of some.

but I sincerely think that some manage to convince themselves that with some of the most expensive rackets in the world, clothes at 100 € a polo shirt or strings at 25 € they will play better.

It reminds me of a few years ago, when my brother was waiting for his new racket contract, there was a problem with the old Dunlops breaking too fast, and he was talking to a local yonex branch. but it was still going to take a few weeks. and he absolutely had to buy a few frames, and following the advice of his former coach, he spent 150 € for 6 frames! ..

and he played even better than with his dunlops and as well as with his future yonex v-core! ..

it was horrible frames! a super bad brand !.

he bought 6 Art Of War frames, from Pro's pro. everyone thinks that because it’s PP it’s inevitably bad! .. well, these 98 'frames are frames that use radical molds .. they are perfect !.

and when he was able to sign his yonex contract, he was able to resell his frames almost twice as expensive, because PP didn't sell them anymore and finally people realized that they were fabulous frames .. but can -be that .. some PP tricks also turn out to be in this logic, but still it is necessary to try them, and to try to have an objective opinion, and not to think that as it is PP it will be surely very bad!

Karma Tennis · Sep 4, 2020

Pctopcool said:
Really depends on the cost (time and money) of restringing.

It really does.

It depends how much money you can earn in the same time it takes for the restring turnaround. It can be better to pay someone at the club to string while you play. And depending on how much you can earn, you have a greater choice of strings to choose from.

OK if your hobby is stringing racquets rather than playing tennis. I'd rather spend more time on court. (Also avoids purchasing a Stringing Machine and spending valuable playing time learning how to string racquets.)

Pros Pro strings are great for certain situations. But any perceived "savings" needs to consider the bigger picture.

lucieisland · Sep 4, 2020

Karma Tennis said:
It really does.

OK if your hobby is stringing racquets rather than playing tennis. I'd rather spend more time on court. (Also avoids purchasing a Stringing Machine and spending valuable playing time learning how to string racquets.)

Pros Pro strings are great for certain situations. But any perceived "savings" needs to consider the bigger picture.

in fact, you will be exaggerating !.

I spend at least three times more time on TT than on my stringing machine !.

TT does absolutely nothing for me in my game.
stringing my frames allows me to have fresh strings, and to avoid unnecessary injury.

TT does not make me lose money, nor gain any more.
stringing saves me money.

if I did not string my frames myself, I would have to go and bring them to a shop, which is located 12km from my home, the return trip with the traffic jams would take me at least 40 minutes to drop off there, and again 40 minutes to go look for them.

finally, the club stringer is not always there, he does not have a shop! .. wait for him, or try to arrange an appointment to give him or recover my rackets ...

it is much much much more time than doing it myself! ...

and finally, if money is not a problem, I do not even conceive that we can come to this forum dedicated to PP ...bought alu power! or natural gut...

my brother started stringing himself when he broke so many strings a week (in the good old days when there was only s-gut and natural gut), than the stringing machine my father bought at that time ( a CB-10), was reimbursed in less than 6 months. then my brother was able to buy a second, then a third racket. if you replace your strings once a week, the cost of the installation will pay you at least 2 extra rackets at the end of the year! (52 time and each stringjob cost 5$ at the end of year it's 250$! )

zipplock · Sep 4, 2020

Karma Tennis said:
It really does.

It depends how much money you can earn in the same time it takes for the restring turnaround. It can be better to pay someone at the club to string while you play. And depending on how much you can earn, you have a greater choice of strings to choose from.

OK if your hobby is stringing racquets rather than playing tennis. I'd rather spend more time on court. (Also avoids purchasing a Stringing Machine and spending valuable playing time learning how to string racquets.)

Pros Pro strings are great for certain situations. But any perceived "savings" needs to consider the bigger picture.

I initially tried PP strings because they are inexpensive. However, I continue to use them because the quality is great. For me, Red Devil and Black Force are as good as any other string I've tried. The price point is just a bonus. A reel lasts me about 3 months for the 2 racquets I use.

lucieisland · Sep 4, 2020

zipplock said:
I initially tried PP strings because they are inexpensive. However, I continue to use them because the quality is great. For me, Red Devil and Black Force are as good as any other string I've tried. The price point is just a bonus. A reel lasts me about 3 months for the 2 racquets I use.

do not say that! we are going to call you ignorant, not knowing how to play tennis, being unable to tell the difference between caviar and dog food! ..

it is inadmissible to be able to even think such a thing, it is at the same time a plot against the industry of tennis, against the principles even of the world and worse still against god himself! ..

PP is just useless stuff .. repeat after me: there is only LUXILON! and nothing else!..

zipplock · Sep 4, 2020

lucieisland said:
do not say that! we are going to call you ignorant, not knowing how to play tennis, being unable to tell the difference between caviar and dog food! ..

it is inadmissible to be able to even think such a thing, it is at the same time a plot against the industry of tennis, against the principles even of the world and worse still against god himself! ..

PP is just useless stuff .. repeat after me: there is only LUXILON! and nothing else!..

Funny

ron schaap · Sep 4, 2020

Karma Tennis said:
It really does.

It depends how much money you can earn in the same time it takes for the restring turnaround. It can be better to pay someone at the club to string while you play. And depending on how much you can earn, you have a greater choice of strings to choose from.

OK if your hobby is stringing racquets rather than playing tennis. I'd rather spend more time on court. (Also avoids purchasing a Stringing Machine and spending valuable playing time learning how to string racquets.)

Pros Pro strings are great for certain situations. But any perceived "savings" needs to consider the bigger picture.

Sorry with all respect this is rather ridiciously reasoning like saying, that you never want to go shopping for food and dont want to cook and therefore only want to eat everyday in restaurants. Well most of us dont have the deep pockets you appearantly have. Furthermore there are some Pros pro strings that have more durability/ playability than most known brand strungs like Concept 1.28 or 1.32! Your commercial stringer at your shop most probably doesnt even has these strings bevause he wants to make a profit on the strings he sells and his stringjob. Its probably not his full time job too so normally you have to wait several days before he strings your racquets during which you cant play tennis.
So your comments are not very smart to say the least

boris_graf · Sep 4, 2020

ron schaap said:
But dont tell me that after 4 to 5 hours hyper g has still the same sharp edges and snapback as when its fresh!

This gets very annoying. please finally stop telling the untruth about what I said. Please show us where I said this. In the same post you were referring to I was explicitely saying nearly the opposite " ...but than a really fresh BO plays better than a rather old Hyper G.. "

ron schaap said:
So no matter how you look at it these premium brands are much more expensive.

Of course they are more expensive. what a great insight!

ron schaap said:
do you must be very fortunate you live in Germany because at my usual dutch webshop hyper g now costs 118.95. incl vat.

If you do not believe the prices I stated check www.idealo.de. Hyper G is a bad example anyhow. It was choosen by LUCIE not me. I do not play it since for me the higher price does not give me a much better performance compared to other good strings I like. But I do not blame people to be stupid or wasting money just because they play it. By the way. I just received a reel of Gamma IO for 63 EUR. And I can get Isospeed Black Fire for 60 EUR. Weiss Cannon Scorpion is currently at 67 EUR incl. shipping here in Germany.

boris_graf · Sep 4, 2020

lucieisland said:
do not say that! we are going to call you ignorant, not knowing how to play tennis, being unable to tell the difference between caviar and dog food! ..

it is inadmissible to be able to even think such a thing, it is at the same time a plot against the industry of tennis, against the principles even of the world and worse still against god himself! ..

PP is just useless stuff .. repeat after me: there is only LUXILON! and nothing else!..

Please Lucie, tell us. Who did say something like this here in this discussion?

sorry to say, but it is you and ron who behave like this not we. Both Karma and I never said that PP strings are bad and anyone who plays them is stupid. We acknowledged that they are great strings for the price.

Nobody blamed somebody for playing PP so why do you write something like this. The whole world needs to agree with you that PP strings are the best choice for everyone although in fact they are only the best options for a minority of all tennis players (those who string themselves and(!) do not mind stringing more often and (!) are cost-sensitive)

And honestly, if somebody would offer you free strings for the rest of your tennis life and you could choose whatever string you want, would you really pick a PP string??

Taveren · Sep 4, 2020

I like Blackfire but only as a cross, its slick and low powered. Was my go to cross string for Nat Gut.

lucieisland · Sep 4, 2020

boris_graf said:
Please Lucie, tell us. Who did say something like this here in this discussion?

don't feel targeted ... i'm just talking in general ...
far too often as soon as there is an interesting alternative, from many points of view, it is often discriminated against .. for I do not know what reasons ..

I never said PP was the only and best solution.
there are many more ... like i said making a poly, a co-poly is the dumbest technology there is..a lot easier than making a synthetic gut, which is a central core, then a or two coating of multifilament, sometimes braided, then an external coating .. therefore, at least 3 to 4 components ... a multi is even more complicated, since for some microfilaments (sometime over 1000 ) of different composition, braided and glued together ... very, very complicated processes !. a mono poly is nothing more stupid than an extrusion of pellets, polyester granules ... it's a bit like a pasta machine, an Italian ice cream machine, or a 3D printer! ...

there are so many superb poly strings at a lower cost (under 70 € for a real), kirschbaum in fact, signum in fact, weisscannon in fact, genesis in fact, dyreex in fact, and so many other brands.

I'm just kidding, because every time someone talks about a string, it's unfortunately luxilon alu that is cited first .. as if there was only aluminum and the others would only be good for give to the pigs! ...

I just specify that for so many players .. here, in clubs, amateurs, (like me), to use luxilon alu power for more than 15 hours is a total absurdity ... it would be like trying to driving with formula 1 tires on a twingo .. driving at 20km / h .. no interest! .. and in this case, the secondary strings (I say that thinking of the defenders of luxilon, solinco, babolat), but for the others, no, the alternative strings like those mentioned above, are an excellent choice! .. between us, if we were asked which string I would choose if I had to play only with a full setup. my life, I think I would hesitate between weiss scorpion and pure signum plasma ... maybe with a good cross s-gut ..

and in this case, PP appears as a string of choice! .. and not as a low quality discount product .. in my opinion.

1HBHfanatic · Sep 4, 2020

Taveren said:
I like Blackfire but only as a cross, its slick and low powered. Was my go to cross string for Nat Gut.

-??
-do you mean pp.BLACKFORCE!!?? (slick, med.stiff, round poly)

Taveren · Sep 4, 2020

1HBHfanatic said:
-??
-do you mean pp.BLACKFORCE!!?? (slick, med.stiff, round poly)

Sorry, was responding to Boris post. A reel of Isospeed Blackfire for €60 is a good deal

Irvin · Sep 4, 2020

ron schaap said:
and also i dont believe hyper g same gauge has 3 times the playability period as BO. in my country hyper g is easily 5 times as expensive!

im in the US and where I buy Black Out and Hyper G, the HG is 4.4x the price of BO

ron schaap · Sep 4, 2020

lucieisland said:
do not say that! we are going to call you ignorant, not knowing how to play tennis, being unable to tell the difference between caviar and dog food! ..

it is inadmissible to be able to even think such a thing, it is at the same time a plot against the industry of tennis, against the principles even of the world and worse still against god himself! ..

PP is just useless stuff .. repeat after me: there is only LUXILON! and nothing else!..

amen!
Indeed for some players tennis is a religion. They believe in powerpads, woofer and super human strings.

ron schaap · Sep 4, 2020

Irvin said:
im in the US and where I buy Black Out and Hyper G, the HG is 4.4x the price of BO

I cant help it i m in Europe. Hyper g still overpriced compared to Pros pro.

lucieisland · Sep 4, 2020

ron schaap said:
amen!
Indeed for some players tennis is a religion. They believe in powerpads, woofer and super human strings.

Pliskova has a piece of adhesive on one of the branches of his pure drive ... Gasquet still uses the same ball that took stock to reserve, Nadal always rests his bottles in exactly the same place ...

I use power pads (soon to match my rackets, I'm waiting for yellow powerpads for my radicals, and blue ones for my pro tour!) .. hahahaha

it could be worse! .. but my power pads, I paid about $ 3 to have about 120 pieces! ... it's not like using a string personally blessed by Fed .. disguised as Jesus. ..at $ 20 a set! ..

PP is blessed in the factory by Yoda Himself .. the Force! .. the Force!

lucieisland · Sep 4, 2020

an underestimated string in my opinion, which looks a bit like cyberpower, it's the classic polystar.

a string that costs around 80 to 100 € for 400m !, which plays super well for 5 hours, but it is better to cut it at 4 ... I had won a half reel of 200m, which had impressed me .. but I didn't I have never been able to buy it, it is quite (it was quite) rare at the time when I was looking for it...for me it's on the same level like PP strings..

Irvin · Sep 4, 2020

ron schaap said:
I cant help it i m in Europe. Hyper g still overpriced compared to Pros pro.

If you‘re stringing your own rackets on a budget, Pros Pro makes sense $ wise. But if you have to pay stringing plus labor to me it usually makes more sense to play quality string. String feel is really personal, and if you feel Pros Pro feels god by all means use it. If you like Lux ALU mains, and ALU Rough crosses and you’re paying labor too it does make any sense to use cheap inferior string. Labor is the same for Lux and Pros Pro.

OTOH if you’re stringing for yourself and you can get Lux for $10, Volkl for $6, or Pros Pro for $2 I’d still go for $4 or $8 if your playing with the string for a month is nothing to consider IMO. Play whatever string you prefer regardless of price.

lucieisland · Sep 4, 2020

Irvin said:
OTOH if you’re stringing for yourself and you can get Lux for $10, Volkl for $6, or Pros Pro for $2 I’d still go for $4 or $8 if your playing with the string for a month is nothing to consider IMO. Play whatever string you prefer regardless of price.

I totally agree with all of this ..

except that:
if you play for a month, and it is not broken, it means that you play either: not enough per week, therefore, is a poly necessary?

if you play more than three times a week and it ain't broke, you have to cut it, because a poly dies anyway, even without playing, not being used.

in case you play more than 15 hours without breaking the poly, it may be interesting to turn to an alternative option, between poly and multi ... babolat origin, luxilon element, weiss 6starstring, isospeed cream or same triax (I don't really know it) from tecnifibre, X10 or X12 from still in black, or monogut from ashaway, there must be others ...

your arm will thank you.
keep any "real" poly (for me cream is not a real poly)

Irvin · Sep 4, 2020

lucieisland said:
I totally agree with all of this ..

except that:
if you play for a month, and it is not broken, it means that you play either: not enough per week, therefore, is a poly necessary?

if you play more than three times a week and it ain't broke, you have to cut it, because a poly dies anyway, even without playing, not being used.

in case you play more than 15 hours without breaking the poly, it may be interesting to turn to an alternative option, between poly and multi ... babolat origin, luxilon element, weiss 6starstring, isospeed cream or same triax (I don't really know it) from tecnifibre, X10 or X12 from still in black, or monogut from ashaway, there must be others ...

your arm will thank you.
keep any "real" poly (for me cream is not a real poly)

I guess that means R Federer should not be playing with ALU Rough crosses. I doubt he ever breaks the ALU before he breaks gut mains. OTOH if your playing with a poly string like some pro players for spin even though they May never break it I would not say it’s not a good idea.

ron schaap · Sep 4, 2020

lucieisland said:
an underestimated string in my opinion, which looks a bit like cyberpower, it's the classic polystar.

a string that costs around 80 to 100 € for 400m !, which plays super well for 5 hours, but it is better to cut it at 4 ... I had won a half reel of 200m, which had impressed me .. but I didn't I have never been able to buy it, it is quite (it was quite) rare at the time when I was looking for it...for me it's on the same level like PP strings..

Hi lucie, dont mention Polystar please. This cheap poly but nonetheless used by former top 10 Atp player Davydenko is making it even harder for the believers on this forum in expensive strings like hyper g and alu
;-);-)
I once played shortly alu rough because it was in a secondhand racquet i bought. The spin potential was ok but the feeling was very bad. so i replaced the crosses with a Prince sgut. Then it broke really quickly and take note there were no notches and it was still rough so not very much used.
Therefore the argument buy an expensive poly like Alu if you dont string yourself is nonsense. You still would have to restring frequently. more so than with Pros pro concept or other thicker Pros pro poly strings.
But i m thinking we could repeat this over and over but others do not want to understand.
boris-graf has appearantly different humor than we in France or Netherland and he changes the argument constantly. If he notices he loses the discussion on comperison hyper g with pros pro poly than he simply replaces the expensive hyper g with much less known Weiscanon that is a German brand too so ofcourse its even cheaper in his country. We never told him weiscanon is overpriced so dont please use it in an argument!

lucieisland · Sep 4, 2020

Irvin said:
I guess that means R Federer should not be playing with ALU Rough crosses. I doubt he ever breaks the ALU before he breaks gut mains. OTOH if your playing with a poly string like some pro players for spin even though they May never break it I would not say it’s not a good idea.

yes, but it uses aluminum rough in its maximum playability window ... it changes string every 9 games ... because poly's are at their maximum playability when extremely fresh. the other players, amateurs, non-professionals find them in this case "rigid", or "hard", but then recognize that they lose their tension and become more playable .. in fact, this "rediscovered" playability corresponds precisely to the moment or the champions change racquets, because they consider them dead.

in this case, we use the poly because the top players use them, but we don't use them in the "right way", since many times, we are unable to use them in their gameplay window which is the 30 minutes. at 1:30 ...

let's not forget that poly has a very low elasticity, and as soon as this elasticity disappears the poly can be considered dead !.

once again, I think (I'm sure) that the pros use poly for their responsiveness, stiffness, the control they provide, the ability to provide spin .. but by no means for their durability (resistance to broken). 'wear) .. because it would be totally absurd in this case to replace the strings after so few games. my brother had been able to approach 3 prince of Gael Monfils when he had left Prince for Wilson, they were rackets already used, the strings were barely notched .. and for Gael, it was dead! ..

and in that sense, we are using poly for the wrong reasons. except that brands take advantage of our reasons to buy poly for their durability (wear) without warning us that poly must be changed every 4-6-8h ..

if they said so, no one would play with overpriced strings that would have to be replaced every 2 hours, or 4 hours.

lucieisland · Sep 5, 2020

diamondgeezer said:
Looking to try out an alternative to Weiss Canon Explosiv alternative (pros pro). Has to be arm friendly, with good feel. What do you recommend?
-King gut?
-Gut Ultra?

I played gutex ultra 1.30mm, but I can't feel it personally ... it's a string, either you like it or you don't. I don't like it .. some people think it's a kind of cheaper version and necessarily less efficient than NXT .. I don't find it personally, but hey, it's still a great string, for the price that we pay it ..

there is hot stuff, i find it a bit pasty, but if you don't put it too high voltage it's pretty cool.

superior gut is for me superior to these two there, a fairly nervous string for a multi, which is well worth its price and rivals other multi costing 10 to 12 € the set.

finally, kingut is particular for me, it is a multi braided (with a real work of braiding), especially in 1.25mm, which is relatively rare for multi .. very dynamic but which quickly loses its potential .. I think it should be replaced fairly quickly .. (used in full job it breaks quickly, but if not, after 5 hours it becomes quite unpleasant ..

for their prices, I prefer them for example mantis comfort synthetic, which is a real multi, or even mantis power sytnthétic ..

now, if we are looking for the dynamics of a string, and once again we have the possibility of stringing ourselves, a good old color line (a big s-gut of 1.40mm) threaded at a high tension compared to poly (+3 to 4kg for me) it's an incredible string. at 15 € for 200 meters you should not hesitate to replace it every 3 hours, but 3 hours of fabulous sensations! ..

Karma Tennis · Sep 5, 2020

ron schaap said:
Sorry with all respect this is rather ridiciously reasoning like saying, that you never want to go shopping for food and dont want to cook and therefore only want to eat everyday in restaurants.

The cost differential between cooking your own healthy meals and eating high quality restaurant food is huge.

Different situations in different parts of the world.

Average Australian incomes are a lot higher than American ones / European ones. Many of use here prefer to spend our non work time playing tennis rather than restringing tennis racquets. Restring costs at local clubs are typically $20 AUD. The MINIMUM wage in Australia is around the same. And most people are earning a lot more than minimum wage.

Many prefer to spend valuable hours playing tennis or earning additional income rather than stringing racquets.

Went through the whole Pros Pro string experiment. Black Out is a decent string. We were going through three reels of BO for every one reel of Hyper-G. The negating factor wasn't the cost of the string ... it was the overall cost of restringing the racquets ourselves. We could get PP string for $2 per reel and it wouldn't change the situation.

PP makes a lot of decent products. For many, they are great value for money. But for many others, they aren't. I'm glad PP strings work for you ron and lucie. Wish they did for us ... but sadly they don't.

Like some of us here already said, YMMV.

lucieisland · Sep 5, 2020

Karma Tennis said:
PP makes a lot of decent products. For many, they are great value for money. But for many others, they aren't. I'm glad PP strings work for you ron and lucie. Wish they did for us ... but sadly they don't.

in fact, if i understand correctly ... brands like tecnifibre, babolat, luxilon even with their Timo or Ace stop at some point making and selling their strings..because it just doesn't sell as well anymore .. ( for me not enough sales) ..

as PP continues to make and sell string .. which only Ron and me buy .. I don't even know how long PP has been around ..

the first opinions on stringforum date from:

cyberpower: 2003 (satisfaction rate: 83%)
Plus power 118: 2005 (satisfaction rate: 96%)
Blackout: 2009 .... (satisfaction rate: 82%)

well, maybe they're not good enough players ... they're really bad ...

we can get out that it's not true, that these are false opinions ... that ... stringforum is not real tennis players ... etc etc ..

so, in this case,
alu power 125: 85% satisfaction .. is that also wrong? ..

note: by peeling through many opinions, notably on concept, cyberpower, Plus power or Blackout, some assess these PP strings as very close (and even sometimes better than alu power) ... what should we deduce from this? .. that the only truth is here? ..

boris_graf · Sep 5, 2020

lucieisland said:
in fact, if i understand correctly ... brands like tecnifibre, babolat, luxilon even with their Timo or Ace stop at some point making and selling their strings..because it just doesn't sell as well anymore .. ( for me not enough sales) ..

as PP continues to make and sell string .. which only Ron and me buy .. I don't even know how long PP has been around ..

the first opinions on stringforum date from:

cyberpower: 2003 (satisfaction rate: 83%)
Plus power 118: 2005 (satisfaction rate: 96%)
Blackout: 2009 .... (satisfaction rate: 82%)

well, maybe they're not good enough players ... they're really bad ...

we can get out that it's not true, that these are false opinions ... that ... stringforum is not real tennis players ... etc etc ..

so, in this case,
alu power 125: 85% satisfaction .. is that also wrong? ..

note: by peeling through many opinions, notably on concept, cyberpower, Plus power or Blackout, some assess these PP strings as very close (and even sometimes better than alu power) ... what should we deduce from this? .. that the only truth is here? ..

The satisfaction rate is a combination of performance of the string and the price. People simply expect more from a more expensive string. So the fact that Alu Power has similiar satisfaction rate than cyberpower and blackout does not mean that they have the same performance. Nobody here challenged PP's excellent price-performance-ratio.

Now since you are referring to stringforum as a reliable source, please look at the overall rating of the strings as the absolute measure of performance. The best PP mono strings can be found on nr. 56 of 337 strings (if you take only mono strings that have at least 10 ratings to ensure comparability). So there are 55 strings that are ranked better than the best PP string.

And if you have peeled through so many opinions you should have noticed that the majority of those who mention similiarities also point out differences, especially in playability duration. Just compare the overall rating of a PP string to their "counterpart". The non-PP string usually scores better than the PP clone. The stringforum database is truly a very bad source to prove your point that PP strings perform just as good as good more expensive strings. In my opinion it shows just the opposite.

lucieisland · Sep 5, 2020

but I do not do a synthesis ..
I find it difficult to understand ..

in individual ratings, many (not all! I'm just saying a lot) of testers find, when comparing the absolute performance of certain strings (I would recite mantis power poly, red devil, concept, dyreex whisper, cyberpower, for example) that in almost all compartments these strings are worth as much or even better in some reviews (maybe 5%?) than much more expensive strings and references ...
what does that mean?

that their opinion on this point is bad? that their rating (s) are bad? So, if we also take in this case the evaluations on this same site, on alu power for example, that would also mean that the evaluations are bad? and that they are distorted?

how to understand that when testers try and mark babolat, signum, luxilon and many others they would be reliable evaluations, and when one would note less reputable strings, like PP would be, it would necessarily be marks which would be unreliable ? ..

for example, do me a favor, and just read the testers review pages on cyberpower 17 ... I'm on the 5th or 6th page, and for the moment, cyberpower is rated compared to alu power, and 9 times out of 10 the grades of PP are higher .. what does that mean? that 9 out of 10 people do not know how to play, and do not know how to correctly evaluate a string? or would it be the same person 9 times?

I discovered this site when I first tried Plus Power, blind with plasma .. I had doubts, and I did some research, and I was surprised to see that I didn't was not the only one to feel that the two strings were very close .. with minor differences ..

i don't mean i'm right and you are wrong ..
I just mean that at one point the argument some have argued that it can't be possible that a very cheap string could do as better, almost as well, or downright better than another is at one point untenable. just in principle. of "it is not possible" ..

I did some psychology during my studies, and in French we call it cognitive dissonance ... it's when we try to convince ourselves that we made the best possible choice .. of course, someone one who buys a string dearly while being sure of himself, will not be able to accept that another string 10 times cheaper could be just as good, that's human. this recognition would demonstrate on the one hand stupidity on his part to have paid such a price. but above all, recognizing it is also moving forward. but the pride of the people prevents this ..

like when you buy a very expensive bottle of wine, and you try to convince yourself that it is really very good when in the end it is not.

lucieisland · Sep 5, 2020

anyway, i would never understand everything.

I am not trying to convince that PP is better or worse or equal to alu power or many other strings .. this is not my goal, I am not paid by luxilon .. nor pro's pro !.

just that, in my opinion, I find that these are interesting options .. and very interesting, in specific cases where neither the time to string, nor the access to your own machine is a problem ..

and in this case i think trying PP pays next to nothing.
there is a difference between buying a string for 3 € and buying another one for 15 €.

when L-tec's paradox came out, everyone said good, very good ... that it was a revolutionary string ...

I bought 3 sets .. because the shipping costs for one was not interesting.

finally, I spent more than 50 €, for 3 sets .. and I regret it .. because it is really a very bad string .. I find it no interest as a cheap string, but if I take it considering the price it is the worst string I have tried. 16 € in a string that breaks after 45 minutes, wear, not even off-centering ... it is simply not possible !.
There are 3 half sets left (I tested a half set on a hybrid, it's not better!) ..

it is in this type of approach that I allow myself to judge luxilon, on the playability ratio of the strings .. as I have already approached it several times .. on the fact that these are strings that are not designed and which will never be played for more than 3 hours. like most twines, and therefore I find almost no interest in them ... when you consider the price of the twine ... that's my opinion. i know a lot of people share it (when i get private messages that say this) .. but we live in dictatorships where money is king .. and talk about cheap strings that could be better or as good that inexpensive strings would demonstrate that good equipment is no longer necessarily the exclusive property of wealthy people....

ron schaap · Sep 5, 2020

boris_graf said:
The satisfaction rate is a combination of performance of the string and the price. People simply expect more from a more expensive string. So the fact that Alu Power has similiar satisfaction rate than cyberpower and blackout does not mean that they have the same performance. Nobody here challenged PP's excellent price-performance-ratio.

Now since you are referring to stringforum as a reliable source, please look at the overall rating of the strings as the absolute measure of performance. The best PP mono strings can be found on nr. 56 of 337 strings (if you take only mono strings that have at least 10 ratings to ensure comparability). So there are 55 strings that are ranked better than the best PP string.

And if you have peeled through so many opinions you should have noticed that the majority of those who mention similiarities also point out differences, especially in playability duration. Just compare the overall rating of a PP string to their "counterpart". The non-PP string usually scores better than the PP clone. The stringforum database is truly a very bad source to prove your point that PP strings perform just as good as good more expensive strings. In my opinion it shows just the opposite.

Its beginning to annoy that you are cherry picking data to your advantage. First of all a minimum of 5 reviews is quite enough and so we dont eliminate Pros pro strings that arent wel known and therefor get less reviews. Secondly let us ask ourself why the expensive Hyper g and plain Alu come behind cheap Signum, Weiscaonon, Msv poly strings. If Alu is that pricy than it should be far ahead whichbit isnt. Only Ace has good overal rating but it isnt produced or sold anymore.
I say QED mister boris-graf!

Karma Tennis said:
The cost differential between cooking your own healthy meals and eating high quality restaurant food is huge.

Different situations in different parts of the world.

Average Australian incomes are a lot higher than American ones / European ones. Many of use here prefer to spend our non work time playing tennis rather than restringing tennis racquets. Restring costs at local clubs are typically $20 AUD. The MINIMUM wage in Australia is around the same. And most people are earning a lot more than minimum wage.

Many prefer to spend valuable hours playing tennis or earning additional income rather than stringing racquets.

Went through the whole Pros Pro string experiment. Black Out is a decent string. We were going through three reels of BO for every one reel of Hyper-G. The negating factor wasn't the cost of the string ... it was the overall cost of restringing the racquets ourselves. We could get PP string for $2 per reel and it wouldn't change the situation.

PP makes a lot of decent products. For many, they are great value for money. But for many others, they aren't. I'm glad PP strings work for you ron and lucie. Wish they did for us ... but sadly they don't.

Like some of us here already said, YMMV.

i begin to suspect you are some kind of economist who always come up with theoretical ideas that bear no real world reference at all! If you are going to play tennis or string a racquet at 3 o clock Sunday or at noon on friday then its not the case at all you could have made money instead. I have never heart this nonsense. Only if you area daytrader at the stockmarket you ask yourself these kind of things. But 99.9999999% of the population just play tennis or string a racket because they are FREE! So in fact stringing your own rackets saves you money and would also make you understand a lot more about strings.

ron schaap · Sep 5, 2020

lucieisland said:
but I do not do a synthesis ..
I find it difficult to understand ..

in individual ratings, many (not all! I'm just saying a lot) of testers find, when comparing the absolute performance of certain strings (I would recite mantis power poly, red devil, concept, dyreex whisper, cyberpower, for example) that in almost all compartments these strings are worth as much or even better in some reviews (maybe 5%?) than much more expensive strings and references ...
what does that mean?

that their opinion on this point is bad? that their rating (s) are bad? So, if we also take in this case the evaluations on this same site, on alu power for example, that would also mean that the evaluations are bad? and that they are distorted?

how to understand that when testers try and mark babolat, signum, luxilon and many others they would be reliable evaluations, and when one would note less reputable strings, like PP would be, it would necessarily be marks which would be unreliable ? ..

for example, do me a favor, and just read the testers review pages on cyberpower 17 ... I'm on the 5th or 6th page, and for the moment, cyberpower is rated compared to alu power, and 9 times out of 10 the grades of PP are higher .. what does that mean? that 9 out of 10 people do not know how to play, and do not know how to correctly evaluate a string? or would it be the same person 9 times?

I discovered this site when I first tried Plus Power, blind with plasma .. I had doubts, and I did some research, and I was surprised to see that I didn't was not the only one to feel that the two strings were very close .. with minor differences ..

i don't mean i'm right and you are wrong ..
I just mean that at one point the argument some have argued that it can't be possible that a very cheap string could do as better, almost as well, or downright better than another is at one point untenable. just in principle. of "it is not possible" ..

I did some psychology during my studies, and in French we call it cognitive dissonance ... it's when we try to convince ourselves that we made the best possible choice .. of course, someone one who buys a string dearly while being sure of himself, will not be able to accept that another string 10 times cheaper could be just as good, that's human. this recognition would demonstrate on the one hand stupidity on his part to have paid such a price. but above all, recognizing it is also moving forward. but the pride of the people prevents this ..

like when you buy a very expensive bottle of wine, and you try to convince yourself that it is really very good when in the end it is not.

there is a very wel known saying " the new clothings of the king" isnt it? ;-)⊙_⊙

what_army · Sep 5, 2020

I also include myself in the club of PP lovers❤️.

I currently have 9-10 reels of syngut, multis and polys with which I have experimented to exhaustion. I also gave a lot of sets to friends over time, which is sometimes helpful to crosscheck opinions. I think their prices allow you to do precisely that - try many different combinations and find out what works for you. From there, if you feel you want to fine tune even further that’s absolutely fine, in my case I found out it doesn’t really make a huge difference and I’m better off keeping strings (and racquets) constant and focusing on everything else.

Having said this, I wish PP produced a string similar to isospeed cream, which is quite unique. They haven’t developed new strings in a while so I’m hopeful they will be coming out soon with a round co-poly that is confortable at higher tensions and with a good blend of power and control.

boris_graf · Sep 5, 2020

ron schaap said:
Its beginning to annoy that you are cherry picking data to your advantage. First of all a minimum of 5 reviews is quite enough and so we dont eliminate Pros pro strings that arent wel known and therefor get less reviews. Secondly let us ask ourself why the expensive Hyper g and plain Alu come behind cheap Signum, Weiscaonon, Msv poly strings. If Alu is that pricy than it should be far ahead whichbit isnt. Only Ace has good overal rating but it isnt produced or sold anymore.
I say QED mister boris-graf!

Have you done the comparison with only 5 reviews? Best PP string comes out at 65., second best at 102. So they perform even worse than when taking 10 reviews. So where did it cherry pick the data?

And nobody said that an expensive string is automatically time better than a cheaper one every time. That was never the point. Of course there are expensive strings that are not worth paying for. The point was that there are (some) better strings than PP strings if you are willing to spend more money.

And please stop to referring to Hyper G and Alu all the time. I do not like their price-performance-ratio either so you do not proof a single thing by repeating it again and again how expensive these strings are to me.

boris_graf · Sep 5, 2020

boris_graf said:
This gets very annoying. please finally stop telling the untruth about what I said. Please show us where I said this. In the same post you were referring to I was explicitely saying nearly the opposite " ...but than a really fresh BO plays better than a rather old Hyper G.. "

So before you start another new post full of inconsistencies: I am still waiting for your feedback where I said that "after 4 to 5 hours hyper g has still the same sharp edges and snapback as when its fresh" as you have claimed?

boris_graf · Sep 5, 2020

lucieisland said:
I did some psychology during my studies, and in French we call it cognitive dissonance ... it's when we try to convince ourselves that we made the best possible choice .. of course, someone one who buys a string dearly while being sure of himself, will not be able to accept that another string 10 times cheaper could be just as good, that's human. this recognition would demonstrate on the one hand stupidity on his part to have paid such a price. but above all, recognizing it is also moving forward. but the pride of the people prevents this ..

like when you buy a very expensive bottle of wine, and you try to convince yourself that it is really very good when in the end it is not.

Cognitive dissonance is indeed a very interesting phenomen. But did it ever came to your mind that this cognitive dissonance also happens to PP users? They play a cheaper string and do not want to admit that they play a worse string. Instead they convince themselves that they are much more clever than most other by playing cheap strings that are just as good as the more expensive ones.

Aretium · Sep 5, 2020

Jesus Christ. It's basically a single strand of plastic. There's very little difference. Yes luxilon is the best. But it lasts like 2 hours for me. Pp concept is almost as good but lasts longer. I bet most of you here don't even need poly

lucieisland · Sep 5, 2020

boris_graf said:
Cognitive dissonance is indeed a very interesting phenomen. But did it ever came to your mind that this cognitive dissonance also happens to PP users? They play a cheaper string and do not want to admit that they play a worse string. Instead they convince themselves that they are much more clever than most other by playing cheap strings that are just as good as the more expensive ones.

in fact, when i first tested it for real looking to find flaws, it was red devil and blackforce in 1.14mm.

I had found ace luxilon to be a great string, but with too many things that bothered me, among them the price, the tension that was dropping in an impossible way. I was playing in signum plasma, which at the time was voted best string of the year (in 2005 or 2006?) and for me, at 20, I needed the best! and nothing else. but there was no more, and the time that my proud order, it was necessary to wait! I was treated to a nasty red devil. I hate red strings !.

i tried because my brother gave it to me, red devil at first. I said to myself, (at the time my pleasure was to contradict my brother all the time, I must have been 21 or 22 years old, I don't know anymore, it's a stupid age!) ..

I took this string against my heart, because I couldn't stand him making me play with discount strings, which were not even worth the drink at the exit of the court. I found that as insulting!

I tried to find faults in this string, trying to convince myself that with each additional stroke the string would lose control, power, or worse, suddenly break, or suddenly lose 10 kg! ...

well I was disappointed. because the more I hit, imagining that the string would break quickly (1.14mm) and the better my shots were, and the more I lifted, the better my ball was, and no bad surprises in terms of power and comfort. I did everything to make it break in less than 2 hours, to convince my brother that I needed something else, an msv co-focus, or a plasma at the time, but the string lasted almost 6 hours, and suddenly broke. I was amazed. at no time did the string show any weakness, and I did not understand why or how it was possible.

lucieisland · Sep 5, 2020

Aretium said:
Jesus Christ. It's basically a single strand of plastic. There's very little difference. Yes luxilon is the best. But it lasts like 2 hours for me. Pp concept is almost as good but lasts longer. I bet most of you here don't even need poly

I have an anecdote about this, my childhood friend (we started playing tennis the same day, we must have both been 5 or 6 years old) we were in the same class and since then it's a bit like my twin!.

at one time he was starting to become quite good for our ages (17 years old he was -2/6 in France), maybe 3 years ago, or 4, he swore by the material the pros play with! .. the wavrinka racket, the federer shorts, the safin strings .. it was terrible.

and like here, every time we talked to him about trying PP he sent us for a walk saying that it was not worth it, his argument: if there are no pros playing with it, that's it not worth it! ..

one day my brother had received test sets from signum i believe for pure plasma. he removed the sets, and replaced them with concept. by telling mathieu, my friend to test them .. he put them down and played with them for a week.

the answer was clear: he needed some! absolutely! .. because it was what he had never played so well ..

when my brother explained to him, he was at first very annoyed, that he was being played on, went back to signum hyperion I think, then a few weeks later asked my brother if he had any of this string left.

it went up to -15 in terms of ranking in France, and since then only plays with PP concept 1.22.

Karma Tennis · Sep 5, 2020

ron schaap said:
I have never heart this nonsense.

LOL. You certainly know all about that.

ron schaap · Sep 6, 2020

boris_graf said:
Have you done the comparison with only 5 reviews? Best PP string comes out at 65., second best at 102. So they perform even worse than when taking 10 reviews. So where did it cherry pick the data?

And nobody said that an expensive string is automatically time better than a cheaper one every time. That was never the point. Of course there are expensive strings that are not worth paying for. The point was that there are (some) better strings than PP strings if you are willing to spend more money.

And please stop to referring to Hyper G and Alu all the time. I do not like their price-performance-ratio either so you do not proof a single thing by repeating it again and again how expensive these strings are to me.

Sorry but this has become the whole point of discussion people like you find that several times as expensive strings like Alu and hyper g are automatically superior to Pros pro which isnt the case clearly. Btw strategem 8 is rated above these expensive strings. Signum ppp 1.33 is even rated 11th and nearly the same as equivalent Pros pro and cheap anyway.
Do thats really the only discussion and you lost it even if you twist in million times.
listen too to

Aretium said:
Jesus Christ. It's basically a single strand of plastic. There's very little difference. Yes luxilon is the best. But it lasts like 2 hours for me. Pp concept is almost as good but lasts longer. I bet most of you here don't even need poly

so if it lasts this short it isnt superior and i agree concept has great playabiliy and pockability too which i like.

2ndServe · Sep 6, 2020

ron schaap said:
Sorry but this has become the whole point of discussion people like you find that several times as expensive strings like Alu and hyper g are automatically superior to Pros pro which isnt the case clearly. Btw strategem 8 is rated above these expensive strings. Signum ppp 1.33 is even rated 11th and nearly the same as equivalent Pros pro and cheap anyway.
Do thats really the only discussion and you lost it even if you twist in million times.
listen too to

so if it lasts this short it isnt superior and i agree concept has great playabiliy and pockability too which i like.

where are you finding top string ratings?

ron schaap · Sep 6, 2020

2ndServe said:
where are you finding top string ratings?

the site is www.stringforum.net where all strings get ratings so its subjective sometimes even biased but still interesting. Its like twu forum but with lot more reviews

1HBHfanatic · Sep 6, 2020

-sooo, question for anyone here:
-i got a set of tecnifibre.ice-code(LINK)
-anyone try it and see/found a pros pro equal
-i am looking to test it side-by-side, and need/would like something similar in feel
-so far i am thinking nano.vendeta or regular vendeta
-any thoughts ??

lucieisland · Sep 6, 2020

you don't have to look for equivalents, but rather something that meets your expectations ... what you are looking for in a poly, and why ... some PP strings will be better in some compartments and less good in others, then it's up to everyone to sort things out ... but something exactly the same will always be difficult.

boris_graf · Sep 6, 2020

ron schaap said:
Sorry but this has become the whole point of discussion people like you find that several times as expensive strings like Alu and hyper g are automatically superior to Pros pro which isnt the case clearly. Btw strategem 8 is rated above these expensive strings. Signum ppp 1.33 is even rated 11th and nearly the same as equivalent Pros pro and cheap anyway.
Do thats really the only discussion and you lost it even if you twist in million times.
listen too to

so if it lasts this short it isnt superior and i agree concept has great playabiliy and pockability too which i like.

It is really ridiculous that you obviously know better what I have meant than myself when on the same time everytime I ask you where I have said something something that you claim I have said you simply do not answer it (obviously because you were totally wrong. and simply cannot give an answer) So I do not ask you to prove where I have said that all epensive strings are automatically superior to PP.

By the way, your SPPP example is funny as it exactly proves my point. SPPP ranks 11th, the best PP strings ranks 65th. it is a very clear picture. There is a string that is clearly better than the best PP string .... and - in your words - "cheap anyway".

I have spend far too much time already arguing with you. It is not worth it, so I will stop it. Just go on convincing yourself you are playing the best strings in the world and your judgement is much superior to more than 95% of all tennis players in the world who are simply to stupid to understand the absolute truth.

ron schaap · Sep 6, 2020

boris_graf said:
It is really ridiculous that you obviously know better what I have meant than myself when on the same time everytime I ask you where I have said something something that you claim I have said you simply do not answer it (obviously because you were totally wrong. and simply cannot give an answer) So I do not ask you to prove where I have said that all epensive strings are automatically superior to PP.

By the way, your SPPP example is funny as it exactly proves my point. SPPP ranks 11th, the best PP strings ranks 65th. it is a very clear picture. There is a string that is clearly better than the best PP string .... and - in your words - "cheap anyway".

I have spend far too much time already arguing with you. It is not worth it, so I will stop it. Just go on convincing yourself you are playing the best strings in the world and your judgement is much superior to more than 95% of all tennis players in the world who are simply to stupid to understand the absolute truth.

Well its obviously your purpose to bash Pros pro strings and everyone who uses them. You go to great lenghts calculating that hyper g isnt many times as expensive and than suddenly you forbid us to use this example. You also refuse to explain why these expensive strings dont get better ratings than many times less expensive strings. if pros pro is at place 50 something than thats actually very good leaving many more and many expensive strings behind. Where did we claim that pros pro is absolute superior? We only claim that its one of the cheapest yet still very performant.
I dont understand why you are interested in every brand except pros pro. This thread is about pros pro...

Karma Tennis · Sep 6, 2020

ron schaap said:
bash Pros pro strings

ron schaap said:
This thread is about pros pro...

This thread is about Pro's Pro strings.

Please desist from derailing this thread by turning it into a Pro's Pro marketing thread that promotes Pros Pro strings.

This thread is here to discuss Pros Pro strings ... Good AND Bad.

If you wish to focus on marketing PP strings, feel free to start a new thread. I'm sure you will be much happy and less stressed in a place where everyone tells you exactly what you want.

I direct you to the ORIGINAL POST that started this thread back in 2010 ....

Jura-SB said:
Hi guys...
I'm new at this forum and tried to search the forum about this thread but was no lucky...too many threads to go for but no real answer.
So to go back to the topic...
PRO'S PRO STRINGS...
Did anyone use it?If was or is...please tell me about the strings...quality,playability etc.
THANK YOU!!!
P.S.I'm not thinking about certain string (black out,black warrior strings are my interest) but I want to know about the strings overall.

The OP wanted to know about PP strings. It makes perfect sense this thread would discuss many aspects to answer his question ... including comparisons with other Brands, types of players that use them, cost differentials, pros and cons of each, etc.

Please respect the OP, the thread in general and all Posters regardless of whether you agree with them or not.

Thank You!

lucieisland · Sep 6, 2020

Karma Tennis said:
This thread is about Pro's Pro strings.

This thread is here to discuss Pros Pro strings ... Good AND Bad.
Please respect the OP, the thread in general and all Posters regardless of whether you agree with them or not.

you are absolutely right, the difficulty lies in the fact that, to evaluate a string, we are naturally obliged to compare it to something else ... and we necessarily undertake to evaluate it in certain compartments and characteristics, but some people do not want to not admit that a person can find a PP as good or better than another, and it becomes for them a kind of anti-PP crusade ...

me for example, there are brands or models of string that I find really horrible, products that are only scams, and well I'm not going to go to these topic of discussion just to criticize systematically ...

at the limit, I try, I find what I find and voila .. I post a personal opinion and everyone to make their choice ..

here, the anti PP have set themselves on a mission ... as I say, everyone is free to have their own experience, but very often the opinions of some people are very little objective, and it does not help to advance the things..

for example, i hate babolat frames .. i am not going to have fun spending my time going over babolat topics just to say that they are rotten rackets, that the frames sold have absolutely nothing to do with the frames used .. etc etc ..

I'm not going, that's all! ..

ron schaap · Sep 7, 2020

lucieisland said:
you are absolutely right, the difficulty lies in the fact that, to evaluate a string, we are naturally obliged to compare it to something else ... and we necessarily undertake to evaluate it in certain compartments and characteristics, but some people do not want to not admit that a person can find a PP as good or better than another, and it becomes for them a kind of anti-PP crusade ...

me for example, there are brands or models of string that I find really horrible, products that are only scams, and well I'm not going to go to these topic of discussion just to criticize systematically ...

at the limit, I try, I find what I find and voila .. I post a personal opinion and everyone to make their choice ..

here, the anti PP have set themselves on a mission ... as I say, everyone is free to have their own experience, but very often the opinions of some people are very little objective, and it does not help to advance the things..

for example, i hate babolat frames .. i am not going to have fun spending my time going over babolat topics just to say that they are rotten rackets, that the frames sold have absolutely nothing to do with the frames used .. etc etc ..

I'm not going, that's all! ..

Lucie, you couldnt have explained it any better than me. How come we live so far away?
I dont understand why i m suddenly being accused of marketing Pros pro? I only defend it against wrong arguments that are being used again and again even when proven wrong. Could it be that the anti pros pro members are just jealous because they realize they spent the whole time a massive amount on wrong and much to expensive strings? Self stringing or not is no argument in the discussion. You still pay several times too much on ordinary strings if you go to a commercial stringer instead of doing it yourself.

Only i disagree on Lucie about Babolat frames, at least the Aero storm and old Pure control team are just fine players rackets like the Heads she uses. just a tad less flexible maybe. And Babolat is french Lucie ;-)

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