Poll: Big 3 - Peak for Peak - Who’s the Best?
- Thread starter Federev
- Start date
Winners or Errors
Legend
Once more - love that we keep recycling this - Federer's peak was more dominant. Nadal is the CGOAT - anyone disputing that is blind. Other than that, the problem of no younger generation challenging either Nadal or Djokovic punches a huge hole in the resumes of both and makes many of their numbers basically meaningless. Federer had to deal with Nadal, Djoker, and the true GOAT, Andy Murray. Who have Nadal and Djoker had to deal with that is six years younger (or even as much as 12 years younger) and winning anything? I am truly curious about the answer to that question. Imagine how padded the old man's numbers would be without Djoker and Nadal - assuming he had kept playing and not gotten bored - which would have been a real possibility.
It's not that complicated.
It's not that complicated.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Djoker. I love Fed and think he is the better tennis player. But at peak, nobody beats Djoker.
Nadal won the Davis Cup single handedly for Spain on an Indoor hardcourt in 2019. He's lost WTF finals to Djokovic and Federer, arguably the two strongest indoor hardcourt players ever.
Calling Nadal "abysmal" indoors (especially with a damned near superhuman indoor hardcourt feat like Davis Cup "19 on his resume and two WTF final losses to Djokovic and Federer) is ridiculous. He misses a lot of WTF's and shuts down his season a lot around that time due to his various injuries, not because he isn't elite indoors (he is).
Are indoors his favorite conditions? Of course not. But he's still an excellent indoor hardcourt player. Just not as good as Federer and Djokovic obviously. But very few players in the world could drag Spain to a Davis Cup win like he did in 2019, on an Indoor hardcourt. Nadal is great everywhere.
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USO
Banned
Actually Federer's (and Djokovic's) 3-slam years only included hardcourt and grass. Nadal is the only one who had a 3-slam year on all 3 surfaces. Also as far as I know Nadal has won at least 2 slams on each surface which neither Federer and Djokovic have done. So let's not try to diminish Nadal's accomplishments as an all-surface player. All the members of the Big 3 are complete players.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Remember when the commentators suggested that Blake should hit to Peak Federer's forehand? Peak Indoor Fed was so good he even made the pundits in the booth sound stupid.
Lew II
G.O.A.T.
Like Blake could use some tactic that is not brainless ball bashing.
This is a correct answer.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
This one's more unstoppable. Change my mind
I need to watch Nadal clay 2012 highlights, I literally hardly ever do. He was certainly beastly and only being annoyed by a wet court hampered him. The way he went out and blitzed Djokovic the next day when the sun was out was crazy lol. Can't believe I was worried that night.
PeoplesChamp
Legend
The question is best all around and yet all these frickin clay posts 
ForehandRF
Legend
2006 RG F, Fed won 6-1 in the first set.
PeoplesChamp
Legend
No one has ever been as unstoppable as Federer was at his best. Not when all is is considered across the whole board. Djokovic 2011 deluded so many people.
CYGS
Legend
Unstoppable only until he meets Djokodal. Definition of weakera GOAT.
PeoplesChamp
Legend
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Federer had a very defined peak from 2004-2007 where he was practically unbeatable except occasionally by Nadal on clay. Nadal has been consistent throughout his career particularly on clay and apart from a low in 2015-16, he doesn’t have high peaks or bad lows. Djokovic has had three peaks (2011, 2015-20161H, 20182H-2020) which are separated by many years - hard to explain his career and I always wondered why he couldn’t keep up his level at Slams between 2012-2014. So, we can compare Federer from 2004-2007, but which years would we take for Nadal and Djokovic as their peak.
I would take 2015-1H2016 Novak over any version of Federer or Nadal especially as he won 4 Slams in a row which is an unique achievement for the Big3 along with just about every Masters 1000 tournament - plus as a bonus, he gave Nadal self-confessed “anxiety issues” and beat a healthy Nadal in straight sets at Roland Garros. I will let Nadal make the argument for Novak’s peak being the highest from an interview he gave in early 2016 after being shellacked by a BOATing Novak.
Nadal interview - After losing 6-1 6-2 the final in Doha against the Serb, Rafael Nadal was quite honest in his press conference.
“There is not much you can do when your opponent plays like that. He was just perfect. I have never seen someone playing at this level, and I have been following the sport for many years now. I don’t feel frustrated after the match, is not like I feel in a rush to win, I have 14 Grand Slams not zero or one. The priority for me is to be happy while doing what I do. We will see if Novak will play like this in two weeks, or in 5 months, but all you can do is wait and see” said the Spaniard. On his plan to beat the Serb in the future, after losing 5 times in a row against the world No.1 Rafael said:
“You have two choices: either you get frustrated and you give up, or you wait. And I am going to wait. Obviously I am going to work hard to be ready for when the opportunity comes. To play against Novak in these conditions, with him playing like this, it was almost impossible for me to beat him today. I know I can do some things better, and I am going to work on that as well”.
Nadal didn’t mention that he was also going to sic his fellow-Spaniard Pepe on Djokovic to wreck his mojo for a couple of years
I would take 2015-1H2016 Novak over any version of Federer or Nadal especially as he won 4 Slams in a row which is an unique achievement for the Big3 along with just about every Masters 1000 tournament - plus as a bonus, he gave Nadal self-confessed “anxiety issues” and beat a healthy Nadal in straight sets at Roland Garros. I will let Nadal make the argument for Novak’s peak being the highest from an interview he gave in early 2016 after being shellacked by a BOATing Novak.
Nadal interview - After losing 6-1 6-2 the final in Doha against the Serb, Rafael Nadal was quite honest in his press conference.
“There is not much you can do when your opponent plays like that. He was just perfect. I have never seen someone playing at this level, and I have been following the sport for many years now. I don’t feel frustrated after the match, is not like I feel in a rush to win, I have 14 Grand Slams not zero or one. The priority for me is to be happy while doing what I do. We will see if Novak will play like this in two weeks, or in 5 months, but all you can do is wait and see” said the Spaniard. On his plan to beat the Serb in the future, after losing 5 times in a row against the world No.1 Rafael said:
“You have two choices: either you get frustrated and you give up, or you wait. And I am going to wait. Obviously I am going to work hard to be ready for when the opportunity comes. To play against Novak in these conditions, with him playing like this, it was almost impossible for me to beat him today. I know I can do some things better, and I am going to work on that as well”.
Nadal didn’t mention that he was also going to sic his fellow-Spaniard Pepe on Djokovic to wreck his mojo for a couple of years
PeoplesChamp
Legend
Over any version LOL. This place is full of laughs after a Friday night out. I'll say that
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
Go argue with Nadal - he played Federer a few times in his peak and he is the one who said “I have never seen someone playing at this level, and I have been following the sport for many years now.”Over any version LOL. This place is full of laughs after a Friday night out. I'll say that
ForehandRF
Legend
I wonder what Nadal thought after his match vs Roger at IW 2017
CYGS
Legend
Yes laugh until you feel empty inside.Over any version LOL. This place is full of laughs after a Friday night out. I'll say that
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
You can google his interview. He said “Today he played better than me. I didn’t play my best match, and he played well.”I wonder what Nadal thought after his match vs Roger at IW 2017
He then went on to talk about Roger returning very well on that day. If you google and read the full interview, you will see that he did not praise him anywhere close to what he did after losing to Novak at Doha in 2016.
Subway Tennis
Legend
This day, this kit, this man.
Do you remember the Almagro match? Nico was in pretty decent form, but he ended up winning maybe four games. During the match he said to the crowd that Nadal was going to win 40 french opens
canta_Brian
Hall of Fame
All those Djokovic fans claiming Fed only excelled in a weak era do make me chuckle.
I always think of this match against a player they will assume could hardly hold a racquet, or was “just a ball basher” because of stats or such like.
suggest they watch a few matches.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Nadal tends to give less credit to Federer than Djokovic in general. Obviously biased, which is entirely natural given the different story and matchup.
socallefty
G.O.A.T.
I don’t know why Nadal would be biased and would not give his honest view about Fed and Novak as they are both his rivals. The fact is that he beat Federer many times during Federer‘s dominant period whereas he has always had more trouble beating prime Novak during 2011-Jan2012, 2015-1H2016 and 2H2018-2020. Outside of the Philippe Chartrier court, Novak has done well against him even on clay during Nadal’s prime years which is more than you can say about Federer - so, I think it is honest respect from Nadal.
What I hear on TTW is that Fedal are best friends and no one likes Djokovic - so, I would imagine that Nadal is more likely to compliment Federer, but he has a harder time doing so.
AnOctorokForDinner
Talk Tennis Guru
Remember bias doesn't mean dishonesty. Nadal may honestly say what he thinks but that's no gospel.
Okay looking at your comments I'd better leave you to your notions.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
He contained a zoning peak Djokovic in 4 sets. Without ever being in any danger.
That's pretty much all you need to know about Nadal on clay to conclude he's invincible.
King No1e
G.O.A.T.
Blake wasn't gonna beat Federer that night, no matter what he did. Everything was just clicking for the ******. The only 2 players who stand a chance against Federer in that form are Nadal and a peaking full-spirit 2011-mode Djokovic.
CYGS
Legend
Fed fans are definitely more biased. That's hilarious.
canta_Brian
Hall of Fame
Of course they are dear. Now you run along and play with your little friends.
peak nole and peak rafa have played throughout 2011! rafa's best year was 2010 and he played just as well in 2011. he said so himself. that his only problem in 2011 was nole. he won over everyone else. if it were not for nole rafa's best year would be 2011 and not 2010. he lost 6 big finals against nole that year. + AOF 2011. so 7 big finals in a row.
rafas titles 2010:
Tokyo (Outdoor / Hard)
US Open (Outdoor / Hard)
Wimbledon (Outdoor / Grass)
Roland Garros (Outdoor / Clay)
ATP Masters 1000 Madrid (Outdoor / Clay)
ATP Masters 1000 Rome (Outdoor / Clay)
ATP Masters 1000 Monte Carlo (Outdoor / Clay)
rafas 2011 (incl finals he lost by nole):
Roland Garros (Outdoor / Clay)
Barcelona (Outdoor / Clay)
ATP Masters 1000 Monte Carlo (Outdoor / Clay)
----
US Open (Outdoor / Hard)
Wimbledon (Outdoor / Grass)
ATP Masters 1000 Rome (Outdoor / Clay)
ATP Masters 1000 Madrid (Outdoor / Clay)
ATP Masters 1000 Miami (Outdoor / Hard)
ATP Masters 1000 Indian Wells (Outdoor / Hard)
rafas titles 2010:
Tokyo (Outdoor / Hard)
US Open (Outdoor / Hard)
Wimbledon (Outdoor / Grass)
Roland Garros (Outdoor / Clay)
ATP Masters 1000 Madrid (Outdoor / Clay)
ATP Masters 1000 Rome (Outdoor / Clay)
ATP Masters 1000 Monte Carlo (Outdoor / Clay)
rafas 2011 (incl finals he lost by nole):
Roland Garros (Outdoor / Clay)
Barcelona (Outdoor / Clay)
ATP Masters 1000 Monte Carlo (Outdoor / Clay)
----
US Open (Outdoor / Hard)
Wimbledon (Outdoor / Grass)
ATP Masters 1000 Rome (Outdoor / Clay)
ATP Masters 1000 Madrid (Outdoor / Clay)
ATP Masters 1000 Miami (Outdoor / Hard)
ATP Masters 1000 Indian Wells (Outdoor / Hard)
it's not true. you are talking about seasons or calendar years not about years. in tennis seasons is not so important because we have a rolling 52 week (one year) points system. so nole's best YEAR (W2015-RG2016) includes all 4 slams in a row (+WTF and 5 masters)!!!! which is by far the most dominant and impressive year in tennis history. and it is always neglected in such discussions! btw most impressive season is noles 2015, by far (3 slams + F, WTF, 6 masters + 2F, ATP500)!
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MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
One of the biggest fails in Nadal's career is not beating Djokovic at Miami 2011. That could have changed soooo much.
fed vs nole h2h
- Clay courts: Tied, 4–4
- Hard courts: Djokovic, 20 (+WO) –18
- Outdoor: Djokovic, 14–13
- Indoor: Djokovic, 6 (+WO) –5
- Grass courts: Djokovic, 3–1
and that's why nole is 3-0 in wimbledon finals vs roger?
Tennis Analyst
Rookie
Federer will win such a poll in here of course since TTW is filled with biased and insecure Fed fanboys but If we're being objective and fair, then it's surely Rafa on clay and Djokovic off clay.
Federer had a high peak for his time but it's obvious that both Rafa and the Serb surpassed him. They're just a level above him unless he can somehow reverse his losing H2H record against them.
Federer had a high peak for his time but it's obvious that both Rafa and the Serb surpassed him. They're just a level above him unless he can somehow reverse his losing H2H record against them.
canta_Brian
Hall of Fame
For me Djokovic has to be a step below the other two.
Djokovic’s great talent is his inability to be broken down. His movement, his returning etc mean he nullifies even the great serves and shots of the game.
But that’s just it. He is a reactor rather than an instigator. If he plays a weak opponent he looks ok. If he plays a great opponent he looks great.
Both Federer and Nadal take the game away from people with shot making, serving, power etc. For me, to be the greatest you need to create, not “just” be a wall.
Djokovic’s great talent is his inability to be broken down. His movement, his returning etc mean he nullifies even the great serves and shots of the game.
But that’s just it. He is a reactor rather than an instigator. If he plays a weak opponent he looks ok. If he plays a great opponent he looks great.
Both Federer and Nadal take the game away from people with shot making, serving, power etc. For me, to be the greatest you need to create, not “just” be a wall.
ForehandRF
Legend
True that, but Fed's performance that day was up there with Djokovic's imo, even though Rafa didn't said the same thing.
if a player reaches the final, he is in good shape for the most part.
nole vs fed in F: 13 (+WO) - 6
HC: 9 (+WO) - 6 (38%)
Grass: 3 - 0
clay: 1 - 0
nole vs rafa in F: 15 (+ATP cup F) - 11
HC: 10 (+ATP cup F) - 3 (21%)
clay: 4 (36%) - 7
grass: 1 (wimbl) - 1 (queens)
rafa vs fed in F: 14-10
HC: 1 (15%) - 6
clay: 11 - 2 (15%)
grass: 1 (33%) - 2
nole vs fed in F: 13 (+WO) - 6
HC: 9 (+WO) - 6 (38%)
Grass: 3 - 0
clay: 1 - 0
nole vs rafa in F: 15 (+ATP cup F) - 11
HC: 10 (+ATP cup F) - 3 (21%)
clay: 4 (36%) - 7
grass: 1 (wimbl) - 1 (queens)
rafa vs fed in F: 14-10
HC: 1 (15%) - 6
clay: 11 - 2 (15%)
grass: 1 (33%) - 2
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CYGS
Legend
Luckily Rafa's opinion matters. Yours doesn't.
yokied
Hall of Fame
Trying to act like an internet tough guy when you have the most utterly delusional username and insecure posts of them all.
And that sig. Wait, did something happen to make you change the sig?
skaj
Legend
Maybe not in the world where Federer's peak is in the mid 2010s.
abmk
Bionic Poster
Federer won the 1st set in 2006, 6-1.
Frans talked about a set that federer lost by choking heavily at RG from 2008-2011.
Obviously 1st set at RG 2011 where federer was up 5-2,40-30 (nadal serving at 30-40) and ended up losing 5-7. He just missed a dropshot on setpoint.
if you are in a slam final then you are in pretty good shape.
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