Was Federer clutcher, less nervous, in the 2004-2009 period ?

Forehanderer

Forehanderer

Professional
mike danny said:
Hey, he even said Edberg was a main rival of his. He never even defeated Edberg in a slam and didn't face him at that level again after early 1993.
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That sums it up doesn't it. Only rivalry Sampras faced that lasted a long time was Agassi which that guy called backassi lol and Becker till 96. Even Agassi was missing in action for a while IIRC. Edberg faded away in the early 90s and Courier around 95. While 90-95 was one of the best in terms of competition, 95-00 had very little competition. Those days they had clay court specialists who will beat other surface players on clay hence Sampras didn't win in RG and also skipped clay later on.
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Forehanderer said:
That sums it up doesn't it. Only rivalry Sampras faced that lasted a long time was Agassi which that guy called backassi lol and Becker till 96. Even Agassi was missing in action for a while IIRC. Edberg faded away in the early 90s and Courier around 95. While 90-95 was one of the best in terms of competition, 95-00 had very little competition. Those days they had clay court specialists who will beat other surface players on clay hence Sampras didn't win in RG and also skipped clay later on.
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Agassi was gone for 3 years in 1996-1998. Imagine Nadal not being there for Fed in 2006-2008.
 
roysid

roysid

Hall of Fame
Nole Slam said:
Yeah, he was. But let's just enjoy OP's avatar.

764211.jpg
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Who Is she
 
Sephiroth

Sephiroth

Hall of Fame
maratha_warrior said:
Exactly ..

Fed had chances to win 3-4 Wimbledon in a row ( 17,18,19,16 )
That match with Anderson cost him dearly !!!
If he wins WB 18 ,he wins WB 19 too based on confidence of beating nole .

If I remember , Fed was a break up in 4th set or serving for match vs Raonic in SF in 2016 . He fell down in the middle of 5th set and then lost. If he ended Raonic in 4th set , he had great chance to win WB 16 too .
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Yep, prolly wins 2019 in 4 sets. So not all of this is just attributed to Djokovic or Nadal stopping him, Fed's had plenty of chances.

Funny thing is his match point chokes happen against players that aren't just big 3 too, IW 2018 he could've had the #1 ranking until Wimb 2018 if he didn't choke vs Del Potro, it's all on him, no one else

If he was getting straight setted by competition to the point he wasn't competitive it'd be a different thing but it wasn't, he's had chances and blew them
 
MasterZeb

MasterZeb

Hall of Fame
MeatTornado said:
And that Safin match was a perfect example of the confidence he used to have. He felt so untouchable that attempting a low percentage tweener on match point didn't seem like a bad idea to him.
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That match point is the most wrongly interpreted and remembered point I’ve ever seen. Fed was on the back foot. Safin had won the point basically. Any shot fed would have hit in that position was low percentage. There was nothing wrong in him hitting the hot dog there. For some strange reason, people just remember the shot itself and forget the whole point and build up to that situation itself.
 
MeatTornado

MeatTornado

Talk Tennis Guru
MasterZeb said:
That match point is the most wrongly interpreted and remembered point I’ve ever seen. Fed was on the back foot. Safin had won the point basically. Any shot fed would have hit in that position was low percentage. There was nothing wrong in him hitting the hot dog there. For some strange reason, people just remember the shot itself and forget the whole point and build up to that situation itself.
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The correct play is to throw it up as a lob instead, hopefully deep enough to get it into the back court.
 
MasterZeb

MasterZeb

Hall of Fame
MeatTornado said:
The correct play is to throw it up as a lob instead, hopefully deep enough to get it into the back court.
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Wouldve been hard from that position. And again. It’s odds. He would have still lost the point most likely. People like to go on about as if he choked that match or point. Like no. Far form of. Give safin his props. And give fed his props.
 
BH40love

BH40love

Semi-Pro
NoleIsBoat said:
He usually looked confident when he faced bums like Roddick, Bagdhatis, Hewitt, Philippousis, Kiefer who rolled over when they saw him opposite side of net.

When he faced considerable resistance? Same story as his entire career. 05 Safin was a mini break up in tiebreak blew it and lost after MPs. Nearly lost miami 05. Lost 05 RG sf 4th set from break up. Blew 2 MPs in 06 Rome final on east FHs. 2-1 0-40 3rd set of RG 06 and loses in 4. 5-1 up first set Hamburg 08 loses 7-6 :laughing:

more often than not he folded when he played someone on his level. Flat track bully.
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Federer was smashing your boy consistently until 2010. Fed has played in over 1500 matches, I would imagine that there would be some fails and disappointments, that’s tennis. you don’t win 50+ titles and 1200 matches without being clutch.
 
BH40love

BH40love

Semi-Pro
NoleIsBoat said:
Same story as always, looks amazing vs midgets but soon as someone hits a few passing shots or return winners his head goes and he loses it mentally.

One time in his career he showed balls was 17 AO final. Incredible performance. I think he showed a lot of fight in the 19 W final too. Younger Fed would’ve lost 10-8 but at least he got to a tiebreak...
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have you ever played tennis at a high level?
your understanding of tennis from a physical and mental standpoint is laughable.
Young fed would have actually smashed djokovic like he used to.
Everyone seems to think djokovic has been like this is whole career which is completely false. How many times has Djokovic retired in a match he was gonna lose?? Retired v Fed in MC, Wawrinka. He has retired from every major once
 
maratha_warrior

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
mike danny said:
He did win matches thanks to clutchness even in 2004-2007. Being clutch is how he dominated in 2004 because that's when he built his aura.
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Ofcourse , one needs to be clutch to win slam finals .
I just meant he dominated alot .
In 2004 , He won AO in straight sets vs Safin and USO by double bagelling Hewitt 6-0 6-0 in final..
At WB , it was a tough 4 setter vs Roddick .
 
maratha_warrior

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
Sephiroth said:
Yep, prolly wins 2019 in 4 sets. So not all of this is just attributed to Djokovic or Nadal stopping him, Fed's had plenty of chances.

Funny thing is his match point chokes happen against players that aren't just big 3 too, IW 2018 he could've had the #1 ranking until Wimb 2018 if he didn't choke vs Del Potro, it's all on him, no one else

If he was getting straight setted by competition to the point he wasn't competitive it'd be a different thing but it wasn't, he's had chances and blew them
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True .
He had chances to win 2011& 2018 WB .
It's a choke after leading from 2 sets vs Tsonga and Anderson .
Infact , maybe he would slowed down the goat race for Djoker in 18WB final if he reached finals .
 
P

PETEhammer

Guest
BGod said:
No, just objectively that's an extremely recently tinted narrative because of a very weak talent pool (in part due to other sports and in part the top heavy wealth concentration) and Federer's leading longevity. Tennis was always, prior to the Big 3, about a 5 year window of prime years.

Borg: 76-81 (6 years)
McEnroe: 79-84 (6 years)
Lendl: 84-90 (7 years)
Becker: 85-91 (6 years) + a slam run in 96
Edberg: 85-92 (8 years)
Sampras: 93-00 (8 years) + a slam run in 90 & 02

Agassi & Connors were somewhat scattered outliers, having some concentrated success with gaps inbetween.

Federer's period was pretty well extended as it went from 2003-2010 which is 8 seasons. Nadal's prime period was 2008-2013, a span of 6 years. Djokovic, like Connors and Agassi had a noticeable middle gap albeit in the Big 2 era but after his 2011 his 2012-2014 period saw him as a consistent yet ultimately single slam a year player. Then he had 2015 arguably the GOAT season and pound for pound the best player in 2016 before a steep drop off in 2017. Since coming back to form in 2018 he's become consistent in being a multi-slam a year champion. Of course that did not happen in 2020 but most would agree given a cancelled event he would have been favoured in and a freak DQ in a terribly orchestrated other event renders 2020 a moot point. He has 1 in 3 chances to continue his ride in 2021. We'll see how the story ends. Nadal too deserves credit winning 5 Slams in a 3 season run from 2017-2019.
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Federer has been playing tennis for at least 9 years past the end of your cutoff date...

And if you put his generation as 03-00, you admit his era was basically Roddick, Hewitt, Safin, and babyDal (who owned him)
 
mike danny

mike danny

Bionic Poster
maratha_warrior said:
Ofcourse , one needs to be clutch to win slam finals .
I just meant he dominated alot .
In 2004 , He won AO in straight sets vs Safin and USO by double bagelling Hewitt 6-0 6-0 in final..
At WB , it was a tough 4 setter vs Roddick .
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But he did beat Hewitt and Nalbandian before that AO final, both of whom had winning records at the time vs him and had won their last 3 BO5 matches with him.

The Wimb final was a very tough 4 setter and Federer won by being clutch. It doesn't have to be a 5 setter to be a tough match.

At the USO he edged out Agassi in 5 before double bagelling Hewitt in the final.

It's easy to say in hindsight that it was easy for Fed to dominate or that Fed didn't need to be clutch. 1 or 2 screw-ups and he wins at most a slam in 2004, not 3.

Sure, it became easier afterwards because people became scared of Fed, but in 2004 he didn't yet have an aura of invincibility. The belief that he could be taken down was still there, hence the close matches at Wimb/USO and even AO to an extent.
 
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NoleIsBoat

NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
BH40love said:
have you ever played tennis at a high level?
your understanding of tennis from a physical and mental standpoint is laughable.
Young fed would have actually smashed djokovic like he used to.
Everyone seems to think djokovic has been like this is whole career which is completely false. How many times has Djokovic retired in a match he was gonna lose?? Retired v Fed in MC, Wawrinka. He has retired from every major once
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Federer slam h2h vs Djokovic since 2011 -> 2 - 9
:whistle:
 
BauerAlmeida

BauerAlmeida

Hall of Fame
He was better in the past but still had his moments. AO 2005 had MP and was 5-2 and serve in the TB, TMC 2005 he was serving 6-5 30-0, the MP against Gasquet in Montecarlo. Basically could have just lost to Nadal at RG that year being a bit more clutch. The BP conversion against Nadal in RG 2007, several matches against Nadal on the clay masters where he is dominating the set and goes AWOL and doesn't win another game. And younger Federer lost from MP to Haas at the AO, that famous match against Hewitt in Davis Cup, etc. He had his clutch moments too back then to compensate (24 finals in a row), but he was always inconsistent mentally.
 
Forehanderer

Forehanderer

Professional
mike danny said:
But he did beat Hewitt and Nalbandian before that AO final, both of whom had winning records at the time vs him and had won their last 3 BO5 matches with him.

The Wimb final was a very tough 4 setter and Federer won by being clutch. It doesn't have to be a 5 setter to be a tough match.

At the USO he edged out Agassi in 5 before double bagelling Hewitt in the final.

It's easy to say in hindsight that it was easy for Fed to dominate or that Fed didn't need to be clutch. 1 or 2 screw-ups and he wins at most a slam in 2004, not 3.

Sure, it became easier afterwards because people became scared of Fed, but in 2004 he didn't yet have an aura of invincibility. The belief that he could be taken down was still there, hence the close matches at Wimb/USO and even AO to an extent.
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He had the urgency of now or never until he turned 30 which he couldn't keep up against the younger rivals of that time
 
Sunny014

Sunny014

Legend
NoleIsBoat said:
He usually looked confident when he faced bums like Roddick, Bagdhatis, Hewitt, Philippousis, Kiefer who rolled over when they saw him opposite side of net.

When he faced considerable resistance? Same story as his entire career. 05 Safin was a mini break up in tiebreak blew it and lost after MPs. Nearly lost miami 05. Lost 05 RG sf 4th set from break up. Blew 2 MPs in 06 Rome final on east FHs. 2-1 0-40 3rd set of RG 06 and loses in 4. 5-1 up first set Hamburg 08 loses 7-6 :laughing:

more often than not he folded when he played someone on his level. Flat track bully.
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Thats the key.
His level was so high at his peak that someone on his level usually meant that guy playing his best possible match.

Djokovic could also have become like Roddick/Safin/Others if he was born in 80-81.
Djokovic's confidence would have been 0 if Fed was of the same age, now he knows that he is stronger physically and hit hard to target Fed's bachand, those things wouldn't be there in Fed's peak if both were of the same age.
 
Sunny014

Sunny014

Legend
CHOKING happens normally when you are unable to think on your feet. It is not always coming under pressure, sometime our mind takes time to process things and when we are young our mind functions sharper. We can think on our feet quicker, lot of advantages associated with youth.
 
BeatlesFan

BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
Forehanderer said:
Not sure if you are really a Pete fan. You look more like a Nadalovic troll who gets more attention by saying you are Pistol fan.
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Not sure why it took you more than .01 seconds to figure that out and put the tool on ignore. As I've said before, everyone here with a Sampras avi (except Metsman) is a Fed hatin' troll with zero tennis knowledge. Just here to desperately soak up a teeny-weeny bit of attention to wallpaper their empty lives.
 
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E

ewiewp

Hall of Fame
Nole_King said:
Wim 2019 was very different. He was not a frontrunner in the match but still somehow hung in there. Once he was broken in the 5th set I thought he was done but he somehow got back and reached the infamous 40-15. Tennis is games of millimeters. See his serve at 40-15 in slo-mo. Hits the tape as Novak moves the wrong way. Few mm above it would have be his passing shot to break Novak at for 8-7 that would have been talked about in these forums. Federer would have been so clutch.

In the end, you cannot be everything. One of the best shot makers ever, one of the smoothest plays with a lovely offensive approach and now the forum wants him to be the clutchest ever. If that was the case then you would have had the perfect player ever. Just listen to what Nadal says about him in the documentary on their 2008 Wimbledon final.

As for fellow Novak fans who have been trolling Federer endlessly, you are not alone. Some decades back it was a fashion to troll Windows and Bill Gates too.
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Fair enough. Points well taken.

One thing I would say, off the topic, is not to listen to what Rafa (or his uncle) says on microphones. I would pay more attention to what Rafa does to his opponents on courts. LOL.
 
BH40love

BH40love

Semi-Pro
NoleIsBoat said:
Federer slam h2h vs Djokovic since 2011 -> 2 - 9
:whistle:
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Your right mate , it’s quite similar to there h2h before 2011 except opposite way. U can’t sit here and tell me Fed was beating bums when djokovic just played some random challenger in a AO semi
 
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