SERENA WILLIAMS WILL NOT STOP UNTIL SHE AT LEAST EQUALS GRAND SLAM RECORD - PATRICK MOURATOGLOU

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D

Deleted member 688153

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Yeah I figured that from how she's even still playing at all. Pretty obvious she wants that record and badly

Personally I think she has a reasonable chance cos she's going deep a lot and only needs to get lucky once
 
PDJ

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
CYGS said:
Of course she’s obsessed with the record. Those who say she’s not are kidding themselves. That’s why she’s never the GOAT at least she has one of the following records (Slam Count, Weeks at #1, CYGS).
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Realistically, weeks at #1 and CYGS would be practically impossible given she doesn't play enough tournaments and she's already lost in Australia. Majors count remains a possibility.
 
C

Crazy Finn

Hall of Fame
PDJ said:
Realistically, weeks at #1 and CYGS would be practically impossible given she doesn't play enough tournaments and she's already lost in Australia. Majors count remains a possibility.
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I looked that up, since you posted it and I had never given WTA #1 much thought. I can't believe she's tied with Graf with consecutive weeks at #1. What are the odds? Pliskova hasn't gotten it done in the big moments, for the most part, but she certainly pitched in for that.
 
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Raul_SJ

Raul_SJ

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CYGS said:
Of course she’s obsessed with the record. Those who say she’s not are kidding themselves. That’s why she’s never the GOAT at least she has one of the following records (Slam Count, Weeks at #1, CYGS).
Click to expand...

Why is she obsessed with the record when it is comparing Apples to Oranges? Margaret Court's Slams were not all in the Open Era. Also, many of the top players skipped AO and were not in the draw of her Open Era AO Slams

Serena has an argument for GOAT based on 24 Open Era Slams. Ironically, her obsession with the record is what likely what caused her to choke in recent finals.
 
PDJ

PDJ

G.O.A.T.
Crazy Finn said:
I looked that up, since you posted it and I had never given WTA #1 much thought. I can't believe she's tied with Graf with consecutive weeks at #1. What are the odds? Pliskova hasn't gotten it done in the big moments, for the most part, but she certainly pitched in for that.
Click to expand...
Graf has 377 total weeks at no.1, Williams has 319. That's too big a hurdle for Williams now.
 
Red Rick

Red Rick

Bionic Poster
Raul_SJ said:
Why is she obsessed with the record when it is comparing Apples to Oranges? Margaret Court's Slams were not all in the Open Era. Also, many of the top players skipped AO and were not in the draw of her Open Era AO Slams

Serena has an argument for GOAT based on 24 Open Era Slams. Ironically, her obsession with the record is what likely what caused her to choke in recent finals.
Click to expand...
She set that target eons ago, a bit hard to backtrack now, no?

Anyway I can see her give up if she just fails to make a QF or something for a longer stretch.
 
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CYGS

CYGS

Legend
Raul_SJ said:
Why is she obsessed with the record when it is comparing Apples to Oranges? Margaret Court's Slams were not all in the Open Era. Also, many of the top players skipped AO and were not in the draw of her Open Era AO Slams

Serena has an argument for GOAT based on 24 Open Era Slams. Ironically, her obsession with the record is what likely what caused her to choke in recent finals.
Click to expand...
Ask her coach - he knows why.
 
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Raul_SJ

Raul_SJ

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CYGS said:
Ask her coach - he knows why.
Click to expand...

Venus is not chasing any record. She plays because she enjoys it. Maybe Serena is doing the same. Surely she is aware that the younger players (Andreescu, Osaka) are starting to blow her off the court and her chances are slim.

A Slam win can happen if she gets lucky but that should not be her main motivation for continuing. Maybe she likes playing. What else could she be doing that is more enjoyable than playing?
 
G

Gizo

Hall of Fame
I've always thought that Wimbledon is her best chance of winning another major these days. There has been a bit of talk about her skipping RG this year, and playing a grass court tune-up event before Wimbledon. We'll see though. As others have said, she is still continually reaching the latter rounds of majors (recently beating the world no. 7 and world no. 2 in Melbourne) and isn't bombing out in the 1st week or anything, so I wouldn't write her off just yet and she should still be optimistic about her chances of winning another major.

I personally have never thought that Serena needed to surpass Court's record to become the greatest, especially given that she has won her majors initially from 1999 and during the 00s which was a golden era for women's tennis with stacked WTA top 10s, and during the past decade when the overall strength in depth of the WTA top 100 (and beyond) has been vastly superior to that in the 70s, 80s, 90s etc., when there was very little depth outside the WTA top 10 (or even outside the top 5 in some cases). It's a completely different scenario compared to men's tennis, in which there has always been a lot of depth throughout the open era. I certainly do not think that there is greater depth (at least in the top 100) in men's tennis in 2021 compared to 1991 for example, while in women's tennis there blatantly is and by a huge margin.

I will say though that it's a myth that Court's record wasn't talked about in previous eras. I'm pretty sure it was regularly mentioned when Navratilova, Graf etc. were dominating. I remember talk in 1996 when Graf moved from 18 majors to 21, about whether she could surpass the record. Of course the 'Australian Open context' was also mentioned at the time as well, and I don't remember much talk about Graf 'needing' to surpass it to establish herself as the greatest, but it certainly wasn't ignored or dismissed as completely irrelevant. Graf winning RG in 1996 to surpass Evert and Navratilova in the majors count was a big deal (Evert was publicly and privately gracious, while Navratilova was incredibly bitter - go figure), but no-one talked about her setting an 'open era record'.
 
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CYGS

CYGS

Legend
Raul_SJ said:
Venus is not chasing any record. She plays because she enjoys it. Maybe Serena is doing the same. Surely she is aware that the younger players (Andreescu, Osaka) are starting to blow her off the court and her chances are slim.

A Slam win can happen if she gets lucky but that should not be her main motivation for continuing. Maybe she likes playing. What else could she be doing that is more enjoyable than playing?
Click to expand...
A wall of text that addresses nothing about Serena’s obsession with the record. Her actions speak louder than your words - don’t flatter yourself by thinking you know any better.
 
Raul_SJ

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
CYGS said:
A wall of text that addresses nothing about Serena’s obsession with the record. Her actions speak louder than your words - don’t flatter yourself by thinking you know any better.
Click to expand...

Why does Venus continue to play? What record is she "obsessed" with? Obviously none. Serena could be doing likewise. They both love playing the game.
 
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D

dominikk1985

Legend
The odds are against her at age 40 but I think there is a small chance if she gets a good draw. She can't beat a peak osaka anymore at her age but if she has a good draw and gets an opponent like brady in the final she could do it.

She obviously did get weaker but in the 4 finals she lost against osaka, kerber, andreescu and halep each of her opponents played absolutely fantastic if you watch the matches.

At this point she would just need some luck and face a weaker or nervous opponent in the final.
 
ScentOfDefeat

ScentOfDefeat

G.O.A.T.
Serena clearly wants to be perceived as the GOAT, that's her goal.
Unfortunately, it's a conversation she can't just stop, it will continue into her retirement and forever, no matter what she achieves now.

Also, this idea of just "sticking around" until you finally get a weaker/nervous opponent in a final (like the ones she feasted on before the likes of Osaka came along) because the best-of-3 format and your cruise control game will almost always guarantee at least a semifinal (when you're already 40) seems like a very non-champion-like mentality, quite the opposite of how it's being framed by her team and the media.
 
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Raul_SJ

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Bartelby said:
The female Roy Emerson has a record?
Click to expand...

Do view the dramatic new poll results.
Margaret remains beloved in Australia and is viewed as GOAT.

Australia has voted for Margaret Court over Serena Williams in tennis’ great debate.​
​
In a clear-cut poll result, the Aussie tennis champion and divisive public figure has won the squabble over who is the greatest women’s tennis player of all time.​
Williams is undeniably the greatest player of the modern era with 23 grand slam titles to her name, but the elusive 24th crown — which would see her equal Court’s record of 24 majors — has repeatedly slipped through her grasp.​
​
The 39-year-old has now had 10 opportunities to equal Court’s record, set in 1973, and has lost four grand slam finals in the past few years.​
​
It leaves the debate wide open.​
​
However, Australians have now voted overwhelmingly for Court in a poll asking “Who is the greatest female tennis player of all time?”.​
​
A poll of more than 55,000 registered news.com.au readers has voted Court as the greatest of all time.​
Graf is a 22-time grand slam champion.​
Court’s claim to the throne is clouded by the fact she won 13 of her titles before the start of the Open era in 1968.​
​
But Australia still sees her as the pick of the bunch.​
 
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Crazy Finn

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dominikk1985 said:
The odds are against her at age 40 but I think there is a small chance if she gets a good draw. She can't beat a peak osaka anymore at her age but if she has a good draw and gets an opponent like brady in the final she could do it.

She obviously did get weaker but in the 4 finals she lost against osaka, kerber, andreescu and halep each of her opponents played absolutely fantastic if you watch the matches.

At this point she would just need some luck and face a weaker or nervous opponent in the final.
Click to expand...
Yup.

Unfortunately for Serena, unlike the ATP, the number of players that can beat her on a given day seems to be growing, rather than remaining static or shrinking.

But, who knows? There's always a chance. If she's in the top half of the draw, she could have gotten to the finals. I don't think that changes anything this time (Osaka's still there, almost certainly). But, in a different tournament, who knows...

Wimbledon this year will be her next good opportunity. Osaka hasn't shown she's figured out grass. We don't know about Andreescu, yet. French Open is theoretically possible, but she's been much better on grass than clay over her career.
 
B

bluetrain4

G.O.A.T.
Not sure if she'll do it, but she certainly has no reason to stop as of right now. She's playing better than she has in a long time and in better shape and ostensibly getting in even better shape. It's not gonna be easy. You can say she made the SFs of the last two Slams so she's close, but those last steps are HUGE. Plus, it's not like she's a lock for the SFs - She could have been out to Sabalenka in the 4th round - and there's plenty of established and emerging players who can challenge her. But she should venture forward for now. Maybe she can have her worst matches when it doesn't matter and play her best at the right time against the Big Guns and win a Slam. Or maybe she can take advantage of a busted draw.

Again, as of right now, why stop? At least try to eke one out in the next few years.
 
anarosevoli

anarosevoli

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All achievements considered, Graf is very clearly the greatest singles player of all time with number 1 weeks record, golden slam, better w/l, 4 career slams, many more tournaments won than Williams, and only 1 slam less in a much shorter career. The more doubles are considered the more Court and Navratilova come into play. Williams is 4th, no matter how you calculate. What lacks most is a Grand Slam, and she only ever won 4 in a row, Navratilova won 6 in a row!
The following points have also to be considered, not only the Seles stabbing which is always mentioned:
- the medicine/physio adavantage of extending her career endlessly
- knowing the numbers of the others
- having a home slam, unlike Graf
 
ScentOfDefeat

ScentOfDefeat

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I hope she gets what she wants, the game desperately needs to move on from this drama.
It's like a nightmarish on-and-off relationship, full of sound, fury and tears, that has been tormenting the WTA for years and eating away at a great tennis player's deserved retirement, which she can't enjoy because she's stuck in this codependent bond that her pathologically ambitious coach, the media and Serena herself can't stop nourishing.
 
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Raul_SJ

Raul_SJ

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bluetrain4 said:
Again, as of right now, why stop? At least try to eke one out in the next few years.
Click to expand...

There is no reason to stop. And her cheating coach is not credible and cannot speak to her motivations. She could be playing primarily because she loves playing the game. That is the most plausible reason as her chances for the "record" are slim... What else is she gonna do that is as enjoyable as playing?
 
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D

Deleted member 22147

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Raul_SJ said:
Having a home slam is not necessarily any advantage.
Ask Kyrgios.
Click to expand...

Kyrgios plays much better in Australia than anywhere else.

The reason he does not make overall great results there has nothing to do with the location not being advantageous. He simply isn't that good.

Regardless, a home slam affects different players in different ways.
 
Aussie Darcy

Aussie Darcy

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Raul_SJ said:
Mouratgolou is a convicted cheater and has no credibility, while Margaret is the role model for on-court behavior.

Dramatic poll results show that Margaret remains beloved in Australia.



razer keyboard tester
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Ok this is just embarrassing. News.com is a Murdoch rag mostly read by the far right who think Andrew Bolt has any form of intelligence despite constantly having to apologise for his lies and falsehoods. Margaret’s off court behaviour unfortunately is far more relevant than what she did 40 years ago at a slam where nobody bothered to fly down here. It’s a record that not even her peers respect. Navratilova, Evert and so many more have said this and that players didn’t take it as a slam.
 
Raul_SJ

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Ocean Drive said:
Kyrgios plays much better in Australia than anywhere else.

The reason he does not make overall great results there has nothing to do with the location not being advantageous. He simply isn't that good.

Regardless, a home slam affects different players in different ways.
Click to expand...

He did great against Thiem. If he had not choked that one he could have to the Finals. Could have possibly made it more interesting against Djoker than the hapless nervous Medvedev.
 
CYGS

CYGS

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Raul_SJ said:
He did great against Thiem. If he had not choked that one he could have to the Finals. Could have possibly made it more interesting against Djoker than the hapless nervous Medvedev.
Click to expand...
When did he last make it to a slam final again? Never. What about semi-final? Never again. How about making it to a slam semi once before hyping him up? You lose all credibility doing that.
 
Raul_SJ

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Aussie Darcy said:
It’s a record that not even her peers respect
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If it is such a bogus record, why is the coach claiming that the "record" is the only reason Serena continues to play? She will never retire until she at least "ties the slam record." Why is he giving it creedence?

BTW, I think the primary reason Serena continues to play is not for the record but because she enjoys the game. What else is she gonna do that is as enjoyable as playing?

The record is possible, but not likely at this point. Surely she knows that as younger players Andreescu and Osaka run her off the court.
 
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Jokervich

Jokervich

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Yeah it's obvious that's why she's still playing. She would have retired a couple of years ago if she broke that record. She can never truly be considered the greatest female tennis player until she at least equals that record.

In my opinion she blew her chances a few years ago. All those slam finals lost. That loss to Vinci in the 2015 US Open semi final was inexcusable.

Also what happened to Kerber? She was winning slams a few years ago and now has fallen completely off the radar.
 
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ibbi

ibbi

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Aussie Darcy said:
It’s a record that not even her peers respect. Navratilova, Evert and so many more have said this and that players didn’t take it as a slam.
Click to expand...
It's true, but in chasing it so unabashedly Serena has completely legitimized it. She self fulfillingly spoke this target into existence, and then time caught up with her. She totally dug her own grave. It's all very Moby-Dick.
 
D

Deleted member 22147

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Raul_SJ said:
He did great against Thiem. If he had not choked that one he could have to the Finals. Could have possibly made it more interesting against Djoker than the hapless nervous Medvedev.
Click to expand...

He played Thiem in 3rd round. He'd have to win 3 more matches to reach the final after winning that. And he was on course to meet Djokovic in semi-final.


I can't see him ever reaching a final. Not good enough.
 
Hitman

Hitman

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Fedinkum said:
At some points, you just gotta stop hanging around like a bad smell...
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You think if Osaka went out to Mug that Serena wouldn't have picked up the title in Oz?

She is waiting for the right opportunity while she knows she can still do it. If she was losing first, second or third round, then yes, time to go, when you are losing only to the top player, you know the stars could align, especially if your aim is just one more. Two or three more, then yes, time to go....one more, yeah, I see her sticking around a bit to try to do it.
 
Wander

Wander

Hall of Fame
Jokervich said:
Also what happened to Kerber? She was winning slams a few years ago and now has fallen completely off the radar.
Click to expand...

Kerber is a defensive baseliner, a counter-puncher who relies on movement and consistency to get a chance to hit angles. Her serve was always weak. She's also 33 years old. Players with her qualities don't stay at the top deep into their 30s.

Kerber having that 2018 Wimbledon last hurrah was in itself a bit surprising. She played great there.
 
Aussie Darcy

Aussie Darcy

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Raul_SJ said:
If it is such a bogus record, why is the coach claiming that the "record" is the only reason Serena continues to play? She will never retire until she at least "ties the slam record." Why is he giving it creedence?

BTW, I think the primary reason Serena continues to play is not for the record but because she enjoys the game. What else is she gonna do that is as enjoyable as playing?

The record is possible, but not likely at this point. Surely she knows that as younger players Andreescu and Osaka run her off the court.
Click to expand...

Ibbi puts my thoughts perfectly here. The media and Serena herself built up this record. Nobody talked about 24 slams for Court 10 years ago, Graf was always the GOAT due to slams and then Serena overtook Graf and suddenly Court became relevant when nobody cared about her “record”. For me I don’t think it’s Serena wanting the record. I know this is going to get some laughs considering the Osaka US Open final BUT. Serena wants to win a slam as a mother. It means so much to her as we’ve seen and she wants to show that she can do it. I don’t think it’s Court’s record,
ibbi said:
It's true, but in chasing it so unabashedly Serena has completely legitimized it. She self fulfillingly spoke this target into existence, and then time caught up with her. She totally dug her own grave. It's all very Moby-Dick.
Click to expand...
 
ScentOfDefeat

ScentOfDefeat

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Yeah, I think it's not wanting "bad seed" Court to keep the record but ALSO not even allowing the more virtuous Goolagong or Clijsters to hold that special place of "Slam mums" in people's minds. She wants to slay the dragon and overshadow the saints.
 
CYGS

CYGS

Legend
ScentOfDefeat said:
Yeah, I think it's not wanting "bad seed" Court to keep the record but ALSO not even allowing the more virtuous Goolagong or Clijsters to hold that special place of "Slam mums" in people's minds. She wants to slay the dragon and overshadow the saints.
Click to expand...
Not the female GOAT, and not even the GOAT mama.
 
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thrust

Legend
Raul_SJ said:
Why is she obsessed with the record when it is comparing Apples to Oranges? Margaret Court's Slams were not all in the Open Era. Also, many of the top players skipped AO and were not in the draw of her Open Era AO Slams

Serena has an argument for GOAT based on 24 Open Era Slams. Ironically, her obsession with the record is what likely what caused her to choke in recent finals.
Click to expand...
Open Era ONLY applies to Men's tennis as there was no Womens's pro tour before 68. Still, IMO, slam count is a bit overrated. In just about every other accomplishment of the game, Court tops: Serena, Graf, Evert, King, and Navratilova. Not by much, but at least equal to every other great female player.
 
D

Deleted member 771911

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Why the shouting! Lol.
She won't stop then. Needs to shift 30lbs and get back that mental strength.
 
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