Demolishing the rubbish myth of Safin playing well in only 2 tournaments

abmk

Bionic Poster
Many around here seem to be harbouring the myth that Safin played well in only 2 tournaments. - USO 2000 and AO 2005. That's utter and complete bollocks

Short version : Apart from the 2 slams, guy made 2 more slam finals, played well at YEC 2004, won 5 masters titles, made semis of all slams and reached #1 in 2000

Getting into detail

One way to look at it:

Lets start with :
the slams:

1. AO 2004 - beat peak Roddick in 5 sets and very high level Agassi in 5 sets. Spent in the final (esp in set 3). But it was an amazing tournament after almost a year back from injury

2. Wim 2008 - on his worst surface, Safin beat #3 seed Djokovic in straights and made the semi

3. and yes AO 2002 - definitely not a great tournament and final was below par. But he did make the final beating Sampras and Haas. Not something to be pooh-poohed away

4. only lost in a tight 4-set match to eventual finalist Norman (also Rome 2000 winner) in RG 2000 QF. Also reached RG 2002 SF (though he didn't play well in the semi)

5. beat defending champion Kuerten and Agassi at RG in 1998

6. beat Ljubicic, Arazi and T Johansson on the way to semi in USO 01. granted he didn't play well in the semi.


YEC 2004:

beat Coria and Henman convincingly. Only lost in a tight 2 TB match vs Roddick in RR. Played well vs fed in the semi (this was the match with the epic TB)

masters tournaments:

1. won not 1 or 2 masters tournaments, but frigging 5 Masters tournaments:

2. beat Sampras and Ferreria on the way to winning Canada 2000

3. beat Phillipoussis, Grosjean, Corretja and Ferrero on the way to winning Paris 2000. The Paris 2000 final was a classic, high quality encounter.

4. beat Escude, Moya and dominated Hewitt in Paris 2002 win.

5. beat Agassi in straight sets and dominated Nalbandian in Madrid 2004 win

6. beat Hewitt, Canas and Stepanek in Paris 2004 win.

7. made final of Hamburg 2000. Took peak Kuerten to a 5th set TB there.

8. made final of Hamburg 2002 - losing to a fed playing his very best tennis.


Other tournaments:

1. beat Norman (Rome 00 winner and RG 2000 finalist) in Barcelona 2000. Also beat Ferrero there
2. Helped Russia win Davis Cup in 2002. (beat Grosjean&Paul henri Mathieu)
3. Helped Russia win Davis Cup in 2006.
4. won Tashkent & St.Petersburg in 01 beating Kafelnikov in both

II. 2nd way:

Safin reached #1 in 2000. you don't reach frickin' #1 by playing well in one tournament in a year.
Safin won 7 titles in 2000 - including USO 2000, Canada 2000, Paris 2000, Barcelona 2000 and 3 other tournaments. Also made final of Hamburg.

III. 3rd way:

Safin vs top 10:
49/99 (49.5%)

Safin vs top 10 in slams:
13/24 (54.2%)

That's a pretty good record vs top 10 for a 2 slam winner.
Obviously someone playing well in only 2 tournaments cannot do that.
 
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abmk

Bionic Poster
Safin vs Agassi AO 2004 semi:

One of the highest quality matches at the AO. brutal hitting and amazing ballstriking


Safin vs Roddick AO 2004 QF:

Last 3 sets were darn good from both. first set very good from roddick (below par from safin) - reverse for 2nd set. A pretty good match overall.


Safin vs Escude in Paris 2002 QF:

This is some fantastic tennis, power hitting, big serving, great returning, lobbing !
Don't think I've seen Safin hit those many lobs in a match.



Safin vs Nalby Madrid 2004 Final:

Safin too dominant over Nalby (who didn't play)



Safin vs Hewitt Paris 2004:

beats prime Hewitt in straight sets

 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Safin vs Djokovic Wimbledon 2008 2R:

dominates and beats Djokovic in straight sets



Safin vs Philippoussis in Paris 2000 final:

classic 5-setter. Some great tennis



Safin vs Federer in TMC 2004:

played well even though he lost to fed


can't seem to find highlights for Hamburg 2000 final vs Kuerten right now
 

King No1e

G.O.A.T.
Safin vs Agassi AO 2004 semi:

One of the highest quality matches at the AO. brutal hitting and amazing ballstriking


Safin vs Roddick AO 2004 QF:

Last 3 sets were darn good from both. first set very good from roddick (below par from safin) - reverse for 2nd set. A pretty good match overall.


Safin vs Escude in Paris 2002 QF:

This is some fantastic tennis, power hitting, big serving, great returning, lobbing !
Don't think I've seen Safin hit those many lobs in a match.



Safin vs Nalby Madrid 2004 Final:

Safin too dominant over Nalby (who didn't play)



Safin vs Hewitt Paris 2004:

beats prime Hewitt in straight sets



Safin vs Djokovic Wimbledon 2008 2R:

dominates and beats Djokovic in straight sets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDFN8XRH3gw


Safin vs Philippoussis in Paris 2000 final:

classic 5-setter. Some great tennis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAe5n0LesWY


Safin vs Federer in TMC 2004:

played well even though he lost to fed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUOE1pY0g8c&ab_channel=C0NUNDRUM1

can't seem to find highlights for Hamburg 2000 final vs Kuerten right now

Did Safin even have any weaknesses beyond his mental strength? Massive serve, ATG BH, underrated FH with plenty of attacking power, beast at the net, best mover I've ever seen for his height.
 
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Deleted member 779124

Guest
Roddick never showed the same ability to beat anyone at his peak like Safin. He was more consistent but also more one-dimensional.
Safin was a better player at his best outside grass yes. But that was not my point.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster

Did Safin even have any weaknesses beyond his mental strength? Massive serve, ATG BH, underrated FH with plenty of attacking power, beast at the net, best mover I've ever seen for his height.

could be driven crazy with variety unless he was 100% focussed - see Santoro.
returning vs the biggest servers wasn't exactly the best - ex: Roddick
FH when clicking was excellent, but could go off as well
didn't like playing on grass so much
 
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metsman

G.O.A.T.

Did Safin even have any weaknesses beyond his mental strength? Massive serve, ATG BH, underrated FH with plenty of attacking power, beast at the net, best mover I've ever seen for his height.
well he hated playing on grass and didn't have the discipline for clay to be consistent on it. But then again plastic hip titanium knee liver cirrhosis Safin decided to try at Wimbledon for once instead of retire and demolished peak Djokovic, Deliciano, and Stan so maybe it was all just in his head.
 
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Deleted member 748597

Guest
doesn't really help your case of proving yourself to be a decent poster. There wasn't any need for this sort of snark in this thread at all.

FYI @zagor @mike danny who were vouching for you.
Except that my post really wasn't meant to be taken seriously at all. I like to joke with Safin like that.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Except that my post really wasn't meant to be taken seriously at all. I like to joke with Safin like that.

I know it was not meant to be serious. Only that sort of joke would be appropriate in a thread if someone was overhyping Safin.
not in this kind of thread.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Same with Roddick as well he had so many good runs at slams outside RG in slams but people think he was only a top player in 2003-2004.

nowhere as much as safin though

Roddick obviously had good runs in AO 05, Wim 05, USO 06, AO 07 (before the semi), USO 07, USO 08, AO 09, Wim 09.
 
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Deleted member 779124

Guest
nowhere as much as safin though

Roddick obviously had good runs in AO 05, Wim 05, USO 06, AO 07 (before the semi), USO 07, USO 08, AO 09, Wim 09.
This is true.
 

Biotic

Hall of Fame
Salty much? :-D :-D
Wim 08 SF

LOL no.

Just exposing your false Fed had it tougher arguments and glorifying his competition.

Cause that is what you've been doing these days. Guy A was great, guy B was even better, and so on, while in reality the number of good matches they gave him over those 4 years is lolworthy. Often they either killed each other off on the way to Federer or were too busy losing 1st round matches. Hip butchered Guga showed them how it's done, tho.
 
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PETEhammer

Guest
Beating peak Roddick is not really a great way to make your case that he was a great player man.
And also, the spirit of this thread is hilarious. Nobody seriously believes Marat only played well at 2 events. What people seriously believe is he was a headcase who wasted his career and talent on the pursuit of margaritas and Marys rather than the pursuit of Grand Slams, which made him weak competition, which is true.
 
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NoleIsBoat

Hall of Fame
Yep, basically lost almost the whole of 2003 to injury and went out of prime after mid-2005 due to injury issues.
Same as other guys like Verdasco and Hewitt... 1-2 strong years then disappear aged 25 :whistle:

The equivalent would be the golden era 2nd string guys like Berdych, Ferrer, Tsonga... except they lasted much longer
 
Beating peak Roddick is not really a great way to make your case that he was a great player man.
And also, the spirit of this thread is hilarious. Nobody seriously believes Marat only played well at 2 events. What people seriously believe is he was a headcase who wasted his career and talent on the pursuit of margaritas and Mary's rather than the pursuit of Grand Slams, which made him weak competition, which is true.
He didn't play well only at 2 events. That's untrue. He played well only in 4 events.
 
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Deleted member 779124

Guest
LOL no.

Just exposing your false Fed had it tougher arguments and glorifying his competition.

Cause that is what you've been doing these days. Guy A was great, guy B was even better, and so on, while in reality the number of good matches they gave him over those 4 years is lolworthy. Often they either killed each other off on the way to Federer or were too busy losing 1st round matches. Hip butchered Guga showed them how it's done, tho.
While others trash Federer with statements like Agassi was a 2/10 in the USO 05 final and Federer was at his best in 2015 to make Djokovic seems and Safin only played well in 2 events and you are fine with that.
 

Sport

G.O.A.T.
Beating peak Roddick is not really a great way to make your case that he was a great player man.
And also, the spirit of this thread is hilarious. Nobody seriously believes Marat only played well at 2 events. What people seriously believe is he was a headcase who wasted his career and talent on the pursuit of margaritas and Mary's rather than the pursuit of Grand Slams, which made him weak competition, which is true.
Wiser words have never been written.

4zmloo.jpg
 
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PETEhammer

Guest
Wiser words have never been written.

4zmloo.jpg
Ancient, Amun-Ra raised Andre beat Peak Roddick in Cincinnati in '04, under conditions that favored Roddick. It was even best of 3, so Roddick's poor fitness wouldn't have entered into the equation either
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Safin won 2 slams and 5 masters, obviously he played well in all of them.

Makes sense to say he didn't play really amazing in slams except the two times he won (and 2004 AO 4R-SF but came up short in F), but the same goes for every sub-ATG player including Wawrinka and Murray. The latter was decidedly less amazing in the slams he won, for sure.
 
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PETEhammer

Guest
Safin won 2 slams and 5 masters, obviously he played well in all of them.

Makes sense to say he didn't play really amazing in slams except the two times he won (and 2004 AO 4R-SF but came up short in F), but the same goes for every sub-ATG player including Wawrinka and Murray. The latter was decidedly less amazing in the slams he won, for sure.
What's an Octorok?
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Honestly, I think this thread is silly because anyone with some integrity can check Safin's career results/record and see that there was more than 2 slam titles to it, so they don't need this, while those without integrity will never ever listen.
Honestly, Safin as inconsistent as he was, was still able to make the most of what he had, given his short career at the top of the game.

Meanwhile, someone like Murray worked his arse off for 9 straight years trying to win what he did and still isn't tiers above Safin and even got equalled by Stan in the slam department who also had a short career at the top.

I think this does show that if you have a high peak you can take your opportunities with both hands much earlier.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
Honestly, Safin as inconsistent as he was, was still able to make the most of what he had, given his short career at the top of the game.

Meanwhile, someone like Murray worked his arse off for 9 straight years trying to win what he did and still isn't tiers above Safin and even got equalled by Stan in the slam department who also had a short career at the top.

I think this does show that if you have a high peak you can take your opportunities with both hands much earlier.

That's what having a high floor but a comparatively low ceiling does. Lacked another gear to go in slams, outside of 2012-13. Telling that Murray's masters results took a big dive at the time when his slam competitiveness was at peak (+a great Olympic run). That was the only time he clearly prioritised slams, thanks to Lendl's guidance I guess. Worked very well for him.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
That's what having a high floor but a comparatively low ceiling does. Lacked another gear to go in slams, outside of 2012-13. Telling that Murray's masters results took a big dive at the time when his slam competitiveness was at peak (+a great Olympic run). That was the only time he clearly prioritised slams, thanks to Lendl's guidance I guess. Worked very well for him.
Yeah, unless you're Big 3, very difficult to bring your best at all of masters, WTF and slams in a year.
 

mike danny

Bionic Poster
Doesn't count. He was drunk, and just had a foursome.
Safin definitely messed up that one. Literally no one else would lose a slam final to Johansson.

But hey, better than losing a slam final to Gaudio at least. He is the worst slam winner to ever exist probably outside those early AO champs when AO wasn't as important as it became later.
 
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PETEhammer

Guest
Honestly, I think this thread is silly because anyone with some integrity can check Safin's career results/record and see that there was more than 2 slam titles to it, so they don't need this, while those without integrity will never ever listen.
Once again, very few dispute Safin's talent or his peak level - especially Pete fans lol. The question mark is around his commitment to the sport and mental strength in general, and that's where accusations of being weak competition stem from.
 
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