how do people decide between 1hbh and 2hbh?
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FIRETennis
Professional
My left knee started to tweak when playing uneven junky clay courts, went away after I switched back to a one hander...
Any righties experienced left knee issues while playing on clay/hard-tru with a 2HBH and hitting some open stances?
Any righties experienced left knee issues while playing on clay/hard-tru with a 2HBH and hitting some open stances?
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
I've played on clay some and never had any issues with my 2HBH. Not with my knees or my back.
I don't get the complaints on the previous page about back issues from unit turn. Don't people do that on forehands, too? I don't find them significantly different.
FIRETennis
Professional
On the FH, there's less twisting and hip rotation for me.
I tended to twist more from the back left leg when hitting a 2HBH, maybe not correct and one of the reasons why it was a push?
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
Someone said today that Djokovic lost SIX times to one handers at the French Open but I am feeling too lazy to check but names included Chechinato, Kohlschreiber, Federer, Wawrinka & etc. I dont think it is obsolete at all.
So far, I've seen people write that 1hbh is the "lazier" shot, and it's easier on the body. At the same time, I've seen for the 1hbh you need better footwork and better setup.
While for the 2hbh, you can get away with worse positioning, but it feels unnatural.
They're seem like pretty contradictory statements to me. but if I were to distill that along with my personal experience, it boils down to this. lmk if you guys agree
While for the 2hbh, you can get away with worse positioning, but it feels unnatural.
They're seem like pretty contradictory statements to me. but if I were to distill that along with my personal experience, it boils down to this. lmk if you guys agree
| 1hbh | 2hbh | |
| power generation | easier to generate power. simpler swing motion. the leading arm is unrestricted from making full swing, resulting in higher racket head speed | harder to generate power because full body needs to be involved. hip rotation is essential. although you get to use 2 arms, lagging arm provides more power, and it's hindered by the leading arm on the follow through. |
| stability on serves or fast balls | requires you to be in the right position to be able to make the full swing. otherwise, better off slicing or blocking. | easier to cheat being in nonoptimal position because you have 2 hands instead of 1 to block the shot or use your arms to power through it without hip rotation |
| footwork | can cover more range, but once you get to the general hitting area, need to be in a more precise position to be able to fully utilize the swing | has slightly less coverage area, but once you get to the general hitting area, you have more margin for error such that if you're in a nonoptimal position, the result of your shot can still be decent |
Lukhas
Legend
But is it a statement about the 1HBH, Djokovic, the
Jokes asides, you'd surely agree Djokovic's prowess in Paris doesn't mean too much here. This is a nerds-only topic here, not GPPD! Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
Personally, it's difficult to generate power on a 1HBH. As a scrawny youth this was definitely the case, but as an adult it's better, but still inferior. I think it has theoretical higher power potential given the right person, but individually, this can very as it doesn't for me.
d-quik
Hall of Fame
For topslin backhands is your palm on top of the handle or behind it?
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
I would assume Djokovic would be trying to pick on their backhands much of the time and lost six times to these one handers anyway. If these one handers can do this against the likely GOAT then it tells me that the one hander is not obsolete despite its weakness on returns and high balls. It has advantagaes too.But is it a statement about the 1HBH, Djokovic, theNadal ParisFrench Open, clay court tennis or all of the aforementioned?
Rosstour
G.O.A.T.
2hbh is hell on the entire trailing side.
Do some shadow swings with both in your yard. Without the added requirement of having to hit a ball, you should hear a massive difference in the racquet head speed between the two strokes, in favor of the 1h
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
I recently thought about the next gen one hander or pomo one hander. I went out made the change and OMG I was getting major spin and power. It was sick and a very exaggerated version of what you mention....but man it tore my shoulder up...
Lukhas
Legend
It does, I mentioned it: higher potential spin and power assuming you have time to set up. What I also do say is that I don't think six matches in Novak's career say a whole much about the 1HBH on tour, and my opinion isn't based on that. I'd say the same about Nadal too: my opinion isn't based on his ability to play brutal topspin to Federer's backhand. It would even be unfair: Nadal ate every backhand on clay, you could play it with three hands that it hardly would've mattered; hell, you could have two forehands and Nadal would still find your backhand. The 1HBH isn't the end of the world; it's not as awful as having little FH or serve (hello Benoît), but in the current conditions the 2HBH is the de-facto meta. Ban co-poly.
Amongst those winners we have Federer, Thiem twice (once against one of the worst versions of post-gluten Novak ever), a redlining Cecchinato who never played anything like it since, a redlining Wawrinka, and Kohlschreiber over pre-gluten Novak in 2009. It could be worse: the rest is an assortment of seven Nadals, and one of Coria, Meltzer and Murray.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
Novak is the 2nd best clay court player for many years and likely the greatest male player of all time. He has gone for large chunks of seasons without a single loss yet six times at Roland Garros one handers have knocked the GOAT out of the tournament. This should speak for itself. And, yes, he was great even back in his Wilson Blade days. Also how can it be obsolete when we have a finalist into tomorrows French Open fianl. Maybe you were bored when you wrote your initial claim?It does, I mentioned it: higher potential spin and power assuming you have time to set up. What I also do say is that I don't think six matches in Novak's career say a whole much about the 1HBH on tour, and my opinion isn't based on that. I'd say the same about Nadal too: my opinion isn't based on his ability to play brutal topspin to Federer's backhand. It would even be unfair: Nadal ate every backhand on clay, you could play it with three hands that it hardly would've mattered; hell, you could have two forehands and Nadal would still find your backhand. The 1HBH isn't the end of the world; it's not as awful as having little FH or serve (hello Benoît), but in the current conditions the 2HBH is the de-facto meta. Ban co-poly.
Amongst those winners we have Federer, Thiem twice (once against one of the worst versions of post-gluten Novak ever), a redlining Cecchinato who never played anything like it since, a redlining Wawrinka, and Kohlschreiber over pre-gluten Novak in 2009. It could be worse: the rest is an assortment of seven Nadals, and one of Coria, Meltzer and Murray.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
Try keeping your non dominant hand on the racquet for the fh and shadow swing. For me, I do feel it in the lower back but don't with a one handed fh. The unit turn seems to be pretty different with the 2nd hand on the racquet.
I'd agree with most of this, except the following:
-at the rec level, I think the motion on the 2HB is easier. I rarely see rec players with serviceable 1HB, but I a fair number of reasonable 2HB
-I think the strike zone is overall a little bigger with 1H vs. 2H, and find the footwork to be less precise. Balls into the body are far easier, and you can handle balls away from the body more easily. The big caveat here is that w/1H, all of the strike zone is farther out in front unless you're slicing, so you may have to prepare a little earlier.
Lukhas
Legend
C'mon, that's harsh. I simply disagree on that a single player at a single tournament over six matches means a whole lot to the current state of the tour, no matter how good that player is. That's the exact same kind of argument some people have been writing off the 1HBH because of Federer vs. Nadal on clay and I did say I don't even agree with that argument either. I don't care about who individual players struggle against when discussing this. If anything, I'd be excited if Tsitsipas managed to defeat Djokovic in the final. We could use some fresh blood out there.
Because both tours have almost completely voted it out for reasons that have been written before. And to me, that's a whole lot more data than 6 matches in one's career. Unless you want to argue that the rarefaction of the 1HBH has nothing to do with those reasons.
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MaxTennis
Professional
I use an eastern backhand grip for topspin backhands, so I think it's behind the handle.
MoxMonkey
Semi-Pro
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
128 men entered the 2021 French Open main draw. We are now down to two and one of them has a one hander.
The great next gen players have also voted Thiem, Tsitsipas, Shapovalov, Musetti
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Lukhas
Legend
You can equivalently argue that there were 11 different men's slam finalists with a 1HBH in the last twenty years, four of which (Kuerten, Sampras, Rafter, Philippoussis) had a good chunk of their career in the 90's. I couldn't care less: individual player prowess doesn't matter to me when discussing this. It's like the argument of the pre-supposed advantage of lefties in tennis because Nadal, when in fact there are no more lefties on tour than the population's average.
Let's move on, we're not going to see eye to eye on that specific argument.
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MoxMonkey
Semi-Pro
They're almost always young boys when they start playing, and the two hander is what they start with. By the time they could start effectively using a OHBH, their performance would suffer for a while if they switched to it, with no reasonable assurance that their game would improve overall after said switch was completed.
They already have something that works, which they learned at a point in their life where to be competitive they had use.
This is why the two handed BH is so much more common.
They already have something that works, which they learned at a point in their life where to be competitive they had use.
This is why the two handed BH is so much more common.
Shroud
G.O.A.T.
also because serve and volley is dead pretty much at the pro level.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
Sinner, Auger-Alliasime, Medvedev, Rublev have also voted.
In the end, trying to determine which is better by what the pros are doing has no relevance to the rec game. Rec players are slower, prep less well, anticipate less well, are less coordinated, hit with less spin and power and run the gamut in skill levels and ages. As such, they may be better served by one of the BH's over the other. But until someone studies this in detail, it's all opinion.
My personal opinion is that from 3.0-4.0, you are probably best served by the stability of the 2HBH. From 4.5 up, it's probably a push as you are now coordinated enough and anticipate well enough that you can make a 1HBH work well for you. But you can still make a 2HBH work all the way to 7.0.
And in the end, you are still probably better spending your time working on your serve and FH. If Steffi Graf can win multiple slam titles with only a slice BH, any rec hacker below 4.5 can defeat other rec hackers with a bare bones BH of any type.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
That's clay for you. Since the 1HBH needs more precise timing, it will be more adversely affected by the inconsistent bounces from clay. Of course, Tsitsipas did stripe a few big winners from that wing. But that's why I call the 1HBH the "Blind Squirrel" stroke.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
This is when reading the posts is a big help. We were discussing in a friendly way if it is OBSOLETE on the tour. Obvioiusly it is not.
Dartagnan64
G.O.A.T.
When you get to 3 pages it's not easy to keep up.
It's clearly not obsolete. unless you are talking WTA
Rest of my post was more a re-direct back onto the OP's topic...
Stratotanker
Semi-Pro
Well, the guy with the ‘inferior’ backhand shot was one set from winning the tournament, no? What about the six two-handers he beat on his way to the final? And he only lost to probably the best player of all time (with the best 2Her ever, maybe). Citybus will shank some 1Hers but I really don’t think that’s why he lost.
That is exactly why I was referring to the shanking and not the outcome, which can be because of or in spite of something like this.
Federer would also shank backhands under Nadal's pressure when he was using his old frame.
I have never seen a 2-handed pro shank a backhand.
MoxMonkey
Semi-Pro
Yeah but players with 1 handers have a bit more range, and have higher spin/angle potential, so on theory, they can potentially 'shank' balls that a two hander can't even get a racquet on, and can hit winners that are not possible with a 2 hander.
Tennis_Hands
Banned
That is like saying someone with a sports car can go faster so it is OK for him to crash his car. Doesn't work like that. Power+Control is needed.
MoxMonkey
Semi-Pro
That's being a little hyperbolic there.
It's saying that the slightly increased risk of using a 1H over a 2H for the marginal advantages gained is reckless. I don't agree with that.
Crazy Finn
Hall of Fame
At the levels I play at, if a player has a 1HBH, I'll attack it relentlessly, if I can. Very few are that good, and usually break down under pressure. It's a winning strategy. My 2HBH vs their 1HBH will almost always get me a significant advantage.
WYK
Hall of Fame
Hah. Mine told me my two hander was terrible, so I went one handed.
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
There are beliefs about the one hand backhand and children's capabilities. Do the beliefs take account of specific one hand backhand techniques?
Outstanding young players and the one hand backhand. The 5 year old looks like 'chest press' to me. The other is not clear.
Just found this and do not know if he is one of the above players.
The above video has excessive motion blur. For example, the ball is seen as a long streak and the elbow may be bent during the forward swing? Needs clearer video.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
To evaluate the 1HBH vs the 2HBH techniques consider
% of very young players taught 1HBH
% of very young players taught 2HBH
compared to
% of ATP players in top 10 or 20 or 100
% of ATP players in top 10 or 20 or 100
How could that comparison be refined for ages of players and evolving %s for high level tennis instruction? There are a few top 100 1HBHs that are not chest press, Federer & F. Lopez, but most current 1HBHs are 'chest press'.
Outstanding young players and the one hand backhand. The 5 year old looks like 'chest press' to me. The other is not clear.
@IowaGuy pointed out that the above player looks just like Thiem. Thiem has a straight arm on the backhand take back and so does the kid above.This kid seems to be hitting big backhands. I can't see what he is doing so far with this poor quality video. ??
6-year-old tennis star can’t stop going viral
A 6-year-old has the one-handed backhand seen ’round the world. A young tennis player from the UK went viral Thursday after his dad posted a video of him hitting powerful one-handed backhand shots …nypost.com
Looks 'chest press' to me.
(Better video, but can't do stop action.) If you place the cursor on the circle indicating 12 seconds just before the impact frame, each time your press the mouse button the approach to impact is replayed.
If you see a Youtube, please post the link.
I'm not advocating that young children do forceful tennis strokes.
Just found this and do not know if he is one of the above players.
_________________________________________________________________________________________
To evaluate the 1HBH vs the 2HBH techniques consider
% of very young players taught 1HBH
% of very young players taught 2HBH
compared to
% of ATP players in top 10 or 20 or 100
% of ATP players in top 10 or 20 or 100
How could that comparison be refined for ages of players and evolving %s for high level tennis instruction? There are a few top 100 1HBHs that are not chest press, Federer & F. Lopez, but most current 1HBHs are 'chest press'.
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MoxMonkey
Semi-Pro
I've been on the receiving end of that and it has been a hell of a learning curve over the past 4 months or so. In some ways being left handed actually helped me in this. I get so many crosscourt forehands hit at my 1BH that I've been forced to get as proficient as I can with it.
Also, an older guy that hits with/quasi coaches me discouraged me from hitting any slices at all for the first 3 months or so, and that really helped me get used to driving the ball with topspin, and am starting to be able to drive the ball on the rise with some consistency.
It is so so so nice to have people that are patient with ones mishits as they develope their game. I hope when I'm retired(and a lot better, hopefully) I'll return the favor.
See post #136
MoxMonkey
Semi-Pro
I already replied to that post
Yeah, you'd think this would likely be the next progression for the game, but you could also argue that if it was going to happen at the top level, it would've by now. The 2 hander has been around for 40 odd years? It may take a number of players doing it for it to take off. I mean Borg's 2 handed release in the follow through shot served him well and we haven't seen it again. I have a hitting partner who uses Borg's "2 handed release" method on his drive and slice backhands, he has the best slice backhand I've played against.
MasterZeb
Hall of Fame
I started with a two hander. And my backhand was solid. But I always wanted to play one hand. Fav player being Federer, I had to look like him. So when I was 14 I switched to the one hander. It was awful. One of my worst mistakes. Tried two handlers here and there again and they weren’t working either. Seems like I was stuck in the middle. Stopped playing. Came back to tennis 2 years ago cause i was starting uni (19 at the time). Tried one hand. Didn’t work at all at that level. Returns were a joke. I couldn’t get my feet set up. Was late on swings. Switched to two hander. Life’s a piece of cake since.
To me the two hander is a lot more intuitive and easier. It has more than enough power. Spin is also fine. And it’s just a lot more consistent against all types of balls of varying speed heigh and spin. Also a lot easier to half volley. I think the one hander is an unnecessarily hard shot. It’s great once you get it down, but boy is it complicated mechanically.
Also I’m seeing some people complain about lower back issues with the two hander. Idk maybe it’s because I’m young, but sounds like to me that it’s more of a technique issue there.
To me the two hander is a lot more intuitive and easier. It has more than enough power. Spin is also fine. And it’s just a lot more consistent against all types of balls of varying speed heigh and spin. Also a lot easier to half volley. I think the one hander is an unnecessarily hard shot. It’s great once you get it down, but boy is it complicated mechanically.
Also I’m seeing some people complain about lower back issues with the two hander. Idk maybe it’s because I’m young, but sounds like to me that it’s more of a technique issue there.
JohnYandell
Hall of Fame
Great Lansdorp video. I know I filmed it and edited in the pro footage. Even if it was pirated and put on UTube...
Pitti
Rookie
When I got my 2nd tennis lesson as a kid, our coach showed us how could we hit the BH with one hand or two hands. He then started to tell us how the 2hbh was easier and would allow us to hit with "more power". Being a skeptical kid, I asked him why there was people like him who hit with one hand, and he told me that it was difficult. I asked him about the advantages of the 1hbh, and he told me it had better reach, so I would have to run less distance. Enough said. I decided to hit 1hbh.
Years later, with a different coach at highschool, I could dominate the court and attack with my drive. But I failed every single BH I tried to hit. So that coach forced me to hit with a 2hbh. I didn't like it, and it never felt "natural" so I decided to never hit a topspin BH and stick to slice, so that he wouldn't know I was trying to avoid hitting with a 2hbh. Whenever he didn't look at me, I tried to hit a topspin 1hbh... which always resulted in an unforced error. So I sticked to slice for matches. Until one day a couple of years later, out of the blue, my topspin 1hbh started to work. I never was a strong guy, and I now think I didn't have the strength to hit that stroke as a kid.
Thanks to all of those years, I have now a great slice BH (practice!), and an acceptable 1hbh. If I practiced a little bit, I think I could be able to have a good 2hbh. But... why would I after all of that effort?
Years later, with a different coach at highschool, I could dominate the court and attack with my drive. But I failed every single BH I tried to hit. So that coach forced me to hit with a 2hbh. I didn't like it, and it never felt "natural" so I decided to never hit a topspin BH and stick to slice, so that he wouldn't know I was trying to avoid hitting with a 2hbh. Whenever he didn't look at me, I tried to hit a topspin 1hbh... which always resulted in an unforced error. So I sticked to slice for matches. Until one day a couple of years later, out of the blue, my topspin 1hbh started to work. I never was a strong guy, and I now think I didn't have the strength to hit that stroke as a kid.
Thanks to all of those years, I have now a great slice BH (practice!), and an acceptable 1hbh. If I practiced a little bit, I think I could be able to have a good 2hbh. But... why would I after all of that effort?
Dragy
Legend
The story about strength needed to hit 1HBH is mostly related to speeding up the racquet, isn’t it? By the moment it is accelerated enough and swings around to meet the ball, it’s flowing and rolling.
One trick to solve the weakness issues on 1HBH is … to use your off-hand as you start propelling your arm and racquet with torso rotation, and only split hands later:
thatoneguy1992
New User
Anyone else use to have a 2 handed backhand but then took an extended break and then can't do a 2 hander anymore? After a 7 year break I now use a 1 handed backhand because 2 handed feels very uncomfortable and unnatural to me now even with help from my friends
Chas Tennis
G.O.A.T.
There is a mind set to think that 'my serve,' 'my forehand' and 'my backhand' are somehow representative of the stroke techniques of other posters or the stroke techniques in use in the ATP. This mind set completely ignores the technique. Poster's experiences are only for their one hand backhand technique, almost always a completely unknown technique.
For the one hand backhand technique most widely used in the ATP, it has 2 phases in the acceleration of the upper arm:
1) Initially, the uppermost body rotation accelerates the entire shoulder mass with the upper arm lagging. Rotation axis location is the neck area/spine.
2) Closer to impact the shoulder joint accelerates the upper arm. Rotation axis location is the shoulder joint.
There are also many other sub-motions/joint motions not considered here.
If 'your backhand' does not have the above 2 phase acceleration, it is not representative of the majority 1HBH technique used in the ATP.
Readers, you should check what is said on the forum in high speed videos. When you hear 'my backhand', it is a completely unknown technique. With high speed videos more is known about the technique.
For the one hand backhand technique most widely used in the ATP, it has 2 phases in the acceleration of the upper arm:
1) Initially, the uppermost body rotation accelerates the entire shoulder mass with the upper arm lagging. Rotation axis location is the neck area/spine.
2) Closer to impact the shoulder joint accelerates the upper arm. Rotation axis location is the shoulder joint.
There are also many other sub-motions/joint motions not considered here.
If 'your backhand' does not have the above 2 phase acceleration, it is not representative of the majority 1HBH technique used in the ATP.
Readers, you should check what is said on the forum in high speed videos. When you hear 'my backhand', it is a completely unknown technique. With high speed videos more is known about the technique.
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WYK
Hall of Fame
A one handed backhand is inferior because the player made it to a finals of a grand slam? Interesting point.
