Gut/poly improves almost any racquet (?)

beltsman · Sep 6, 2021

I recently switched to gut/poly from full poly and am loving it. Way more power, better feel, softer, and still tons of spin.

I am now thinking back to frames I tried but moved on from, and I am thinking of giving them a second chance with gut. The problem is that it's expensive to string up so many racquets.

I moved away from thin beamed, <100 in racquets because I needed more power. Maybe I really just needed gut! I bet the PCG100 would be 10x better with gut, for example. Maybe I could even use my Pro Staff 90 again?

Sweatii_yetii · Sep 6, 2021

beltsman said:
I recently switched to gut/poly from full poly and am loving it. Way more power, better feel, softer, and still tons of spin.

I am now thinking back to frames I tried but moved on from, and I am thinking of giving them a second chance with gut. The problem is that it's expensive to string up so many racquets.

I moved away from thin beamed, <100 in racquets because I needed more power. Maybe I really just needed gut! I bet the PCG100 would be 10x better with gut, for example. Maybe I could even use my Pro Staff 90 again?

I have 2 gravity pros. 1 with gut poly and 1 with a full bed of x1biphase. The gut poly feels good but I actually think I prefer the full multi.

LOBALOT · Sep 6, 2021

I do wonder sometimes if it may not produce as much spin in a tighter stringbed. I am not sure.

I just finished stringing my buddies V1 Classics and and I notice when weaving the crosses that to me the setup seems to be locked up more in his racquet than other sticks but he loves it and I have been stringing his racquets with gut/poly for about 3 years now.

As a dubs player, I really like the setup in my Prince 16x19 100 square inch racquets and it lasts forever.

Dartagnan64 · Sep 6, 2021

I love gut poly hybrids when my arm is feeling good. It brings back the topspin lob and the "Crap, I thought that was going way out and then it landed 6 inches inside the line" to my game. The problem I have with gut/poly is that it also raises the launch angle and I have more trouble flattening out shots in open string beds. So then I find myself playing a loopier game than I want.

But I find it really helps the touch game in doubles. I can hit cut shots into the doubles alley all day.

Do people find a thicker gauge or higher tension in the cross brings the launch angle down a bit. Right now I'm running legend/cream 17g at 58/55 in a Prince Phantom 107G. Don't want to raise the gut tension much more as it's got perfect power level. But I could fool with the cross string or just go with 16g strings.

cortado · Sep 6, 2021

My VCore HD came with gut/poly, and now I've had it re-strung with full syn-gut it feels completely different (in a bad way).
I think from here on I'll be going gut/poly in the spring/summer/early autumn and maybe cream/poly in the winter.
I also really need to try my 90 with gut/poly. I think maybe 1.35 gut because it's quite an open 16x19.

A_Instead · Sep 6, 2021

Gut feels great in a hybrid... but it's too lively...
Perhaps I am not good enough to control it...

Johnny505 · Sep 6, 2021

I'd been tempted to try out gut/poly from multi/poly but like you said, its expensive, and would probably take several tries to get to the preferred tension.....so not tempted enough to jump ship.

1HBHfanatic · Sep 6, 2021

-it all depends on the racquet
-stiffness, power level, player type are big factors for the string setup
-hybrids (soft.mains/poly.cross) 2me are bad choices on high power sticks like w.CLASH
-on 18/20 patterns, those could be hit/miss also !?!

cortado · Sep 6, 2021

A_Instead said:
Gut feels great in a hybrid... but it's too lively...
Perhaps I am not good enough to control it...

I felt the same when I first got my HD. Supposedly it was strung 52lbs mains and crosses. I could barely keep serves in at first. I was having to toss the ball much further in front and hit more down in to the court.
However, as the strings died it became perfect, without being uncomfortable.
If I got gut/poly done again I think I would got 56lbs on the gut at least.

Sweatii_yetii · Sep 6, 2021

cortado said:
I felt the same when I first got my HD. Supposedly it was strung 52lbs mains and crosses. I could barely keep serves in at first. I was having to toss the ball much further in front and hit more down in to the court.
However, as the strings died it became perfect, without being uncomfortable.
If I got gut/poly done again I think I would got 56lbs on the gut at least.

I usually go pretty high with gut mains. Usually around 57-59lbs where as poly I’m somewhere around 51lbs(usually rpm blast)

GummiiBear · Sep 6, 2021

cortado said:
I felt the same when I first got my HD. Supposedly it was strung 52lbs mains and crosses. I could barely keep serves in at first. I was having to toss the ball much further in front and hit more down in to the court.
However, as the strings died it became perfect, without being uncomfortable.
If I got gut/poly done again I think I would got 56lbs on the gut at least.

Similar here. Had 53/53 fresh from the shop at purchase; next time I get it strung gut/poly I’ll definitely revert and up the gut to at least 55.

BlueB · Sep 6, 2021

beltsman said:
I recently switched to gut/poly from full poly and am loving it. Way more power, better feel, softer, and still tons of spin.

I am now thinking back to frames I tried but moved on from, and I am thinking of giving them a second chance with gut. The problem is that it's expensive to string up so many racquets.

I moved away from thin beamed, <100 in racquets because I needed more power. Maybe I really just needed gut! I bet the PCG100 would be 10x better with gut, for example. Maybe I could even use my Pro Staff 90 again?

I can confirm the PCG 100 is great with gut/poly.

On your other findings, with gut mains:
Definitely more comfort;
A little bit more power, but not tons;
Less spin and control.

A_Instead · Sep 6, 2021

my recent gut hybrid was in the Gravity MP..
Spray City..

Syfo-Dias · Sep 6, 2021

The thing with gut/poly is you have to string the gut tight enough. My baseline in the VCORE Pro 97 (330) is 58 gut mains and 55 poly cross. That can vary with other racquets but generally I string the gut a few lbs higher than the poly.

beltsman · Sep 6, 2021

Johnny505 said:
I'd been tempted to try out gut/poly from multi/poly but like you said, its expensive, and would probably take several tries to get to the preferred tension.....so not tempted enough to jump ship.

If you do it just go high. I'm talking 58-60 lbs on the mains. Don't be afraid, it's a soft string. If you go low it will be unplayable spraying.

beltsman · Sep 6, 2021

Syfo-Dias said:
The thing with gut/poly is you have to string the gut tight enough. My baseline in the VCORE Pro 97 (330) is 58 gut mains and 55 poly cross. That can vary with other racquets but generally I string the gut a few lbs higher than the poly.

Yes, exactly, it MUST be strung tighter.

SumYungGai · Sep 6, 2021

A_Instead said:
Gut feels great in a hybrid... but it's too lively...
Perhaps I am not good enough to control it...

It takes a while but you do get used to it. I tried it for a time and really liked it eventually, but it would break earlier and it's costly.

beltsman · Sep 6, 2021

SumYungGai said:
It takes a while but you do get used to it. I tried it for a time and really liked it eventually, but it would break earlier and it's costly.

But it retains its playability longer.

phanamous · Sep 6, 2021

Gut/poly ends up being cheaper for me as its playability lasts forever. I often restring the poly crosses when they die reversing the weave to avoid the notches on the gut mains.

I string the poly crosses at tension that I would have strung full bed. The gut mains ends up being some 6-12lbs higher to be playable depending on string pattern with the higher delta in the more open pattern. The gut mains end up being usually about 58-62lbs depending on frame size. Larger gauge (15) for bigger frame or more open string pattern obviously. 16 does the trick for most frames. 17 for super tight patterns only as it's too inconsistent otherwise.

The poly crosses are a big factor in feel and power level. A soft but low powered poly would be ideal but that's somewhat of an oxymoron and unicorn. I'm still in search of one. Head Hawk Touch 17 does the trick for me currently. Put in a stiff cross and the sweet spot would feel tiny with power dropping quite a bit off center.

As OP mentioned, I find gut/poly do make most frames playable and arm friendlier. It opens up the sweet spot quite a bit if you get the tension correct with the right poly cross. With the right setup, I actually find I get more spin with gut/poly than full bed poly.

jbdbackfan · Sep 7, 2021

beltsman said:
I recently switched to gut/poly from full poly and am loving it. Way more power, better feel, softer, and still tons of spin.

I am now thinking back to frames I tried but moved on from, and I am thinking of giving them a second chance with gut. The problem is that it's expensive to string up so many racquets.

I moved away from thin beamed, <100 in racquets because I needed more power. Maybe I really just needed gut! I bet the PCG100 would be 10x better with gut, for example. Maybe I could even use my Pro Staff 90 again?

I have been exclusively with the PCG 100 for past 6 years or so and do agree a hybrid is great. I've found actually that a poly main and the cross multi or gut has always been amazing.

beltsman · Sep 7, 2021

phanamous said:
Gut/poly ends up being cheaper for me as its playability lasts forever. I often restring the poly crosses when they die reversing the weave to avoid the notches on the gut mains.

I string the poly crosses at tension that I would have strung full bed. The gut mains ends up being some 6-12lbs higher to be playable depending on string pattern with the higher delta in the more open pattern. The gut mains end up being usually about 58-62lbs depending on frame size. Larger gauge (15) for bigger frame or more open string pattern obviously. 16 does the trick for most frames. 17 for super tight patterns only as it's too inconsistent otherwise.

The poly crosses are a big factor in feel and power level. A soft but low powered poly would be ideal but that's somewhat of an oxymoron and unicorn. I'm still in search of one. Head Hawk Touch 17 does the trick for me currently. Put in a stiff cross and the sweet spot would feel tiny with power dropping quite a bit off center.

As OP mentioned, I find gut/poly do make most frames playable and arm friendlier. It opens up the sweet spot quite a bit if you get the tension correct with the right poly cross. With the right setup, I actually find I get more spin with gut/poly than full bed poly.

Do you worry about frame warping with that differential?

Jimb33 · Sep 7, 2021

LOBALOT said:
I do wonder sometimes if it may not produce as much spin in a tighter stringbed. I am not sure.

I just finished stringing my buddies V1 Classics and and I notice when weaving the crosses that to me the setup seems to be locked up more in his racquet than other sticks but he loves it and I have been stringing his racquets with gut/poly for about 3 years now.

As a dubs player, I really like the setup in my Prince 16x19 100 square inch racquets and it lasts forever.

What poly and tension does you mate use for V1 classic please?

LOBALOT · Sep 7, 2021

He is 58 lbs in the mains with 16G Lux gut and 52 in the crosses with 17G Tourna Big Hitter Silver.

Dartagnan64 · Sep 7, 2021

beltsman said:
Do you worry about frame warping with that differential?

I've had some pretty big differentials and never seen any change in squashing the hoop and shortening the racket.

n8dawg6 · Sep 7, 2021

1HBHfanatic said:
-it all depends on the racquet
-stiffness, power level, player type are big factors for the string setup
-hybrids (soft.mains/poly.cross) 2me are bad choices on high power sticks like w.CLASH
-on 18/20 patterns, those could be hit/miss also !?!

have known several ppl to try it in the clash and they report too much power and lack of control. poly mains hybrid, on the other hand, seem to work fine.

BlueB · Sep 7, 2021

beltsman said:
Do you worry about frame warping with that differential?

I've strung the racquets up to 20 lbs differential, some other members even more. I never damaged a frame. At 20, on some frames I get 2-3 mm shortening.
Nowadays I regularly string gut/poly at 10 and poly/poly at 5 lbs differential.

LOBALOT · Sep 7, 2021

Dartagnan64 said:
I've had some pretty big differentials and never seen any change in squashing the hoop and shortening the racket.

I agree, I am also not that worried about it.

If it were an issue why would manufacturers like Wilson make spin racquets where not only do they reduce the number of crosses but they add a set of mains. It appears they are not worried about frame distortion / racquet length, etc.

GummiiBear · Sep 7, 2021

beltsman said:
Yes, exactly, it MUST be strung tighter.

Yeah, I got my G360+ PMP strung last week with 17ga VS Gut mains and 17ga Dunlop Expl. Bite crosses at 51/49, first time trying with a differential and right away I could tell, it is so much better than stringing at the same. Guy at another shop had said I could string my 97HD at 53/53 because poly loses tension faster, but... yeah even 2lb. differential, better.

gold325 · Sep 7, 2021

beltsman said:
I recently switched to gut/poly from full poly and am loving it. Way more power, better feel, softer, and still tons of spin.

Which gut/poly gauge tension?
Which poly gauge tension?
Which frame?

Interested to know if you will share. Don't have any specific advice for you though.

beltsman · Sep 7, 2021

gold325 said:
Which gut/poly gauge tension?
Which poly gauge tension?
Which frame?

Interested to know if you will share. Don't have any specific advice for you though.

Klip 17 at 60/GhostWire 16 at 52
360+ Speed MP

phanamous · Sep 7, 2021

Nat gut is so elastic so that's not a concern at all.
It's so durable in playability for this very reason if your crosses are slick.

beltsman said:
Do you worry about frame warping with that differential?

Syfo-Dias · Sep 8, 2021

One of my favorite hybrids is Klip Legend 1.25g mains w/ Max Power 1.20 crosses. That combo lasts pretty long because the Max Power holds tension really well.

SonRK · Sep 8, 2021

I have seen my Blade 98s lose a mm or so when I did Nat Gut / Poly with a small differential. Let's say it was 52/50. 18m x 16c, so it did shorten a tiny bit.

Dartagnan64 · Sep 8, 2021

SonRK said:
I have seen my Blade 98s lose a mm or so when I did Nat Gut / Poly with a small differential. Let's say it was 52/50. 18m x 16c, so it did shorten a tiny bit.

Something wrong with your frame then. I've measured my rackets (largely because of claims like this) with various differentials from 2 to 10 lbs and not even a teensy mm of shortening identified. Graphite should have no problem maintaining its shape through most tension differentials.

I think Shroud does some 20-30 lb differentials and does notice a bit of rounding with that, but that's an extreme example.

Syfo-Dias said:
One of my favorite hybrids is Klip Legend 1.25g mains w/ Max Power 1.20 crosses. That combo lasts pretty long because the Max Power holds tension really well.

Max power and 4G are my favorite "stiff poly" crosses. Too hard on my arm these days so I prefer Cream or Ghostwire as my "soft poly" crosses.

Syfo-Dias · Sep 8, 2021

Dartagnan64 said:
Max power and 4G are my favorite "stiff poly" crosses. Too hard on my arm these days so I prefer Cream or Ghostwire as my "soft poly" crosses.

Yeah Max Power is pretty stiff. I'm currently using some Poly Tour Strike that I got for free. I like it almost as much, but wish it were as cheap as MP. I'll have to try out Ghostwire sometime.

beltsman · Sep 8, 2021

Syfo-Dias said:
Yeah Max Power is pretty stiff. I'm currently using some Poly Tour Strike that I got for free. I like it almost as much, but wish it were as cheap as MP. I'll have to try out Ghostwire sometime.

I've only tried Cream and GW as crosses to gut, but I much prefer GW.

gold325 · Sep 8, 2021

SonRK said:
I have seen my Blade 98s lose a mm or so when I did Nat Gut / Poly with a small differential. Let's say it was 52/50. 18m x 16c, so it did shorten a tiny bit.

I think the Blade length varies from the factory +/- 7mm... (ROTFL)

AverageForehand · Sep 9, 2021

I love my gut x syn gut setup in an 18x20. Plays great til it breaks, lasts 6-8hrs. Don't miss poly one bit... well, maybe I miss poly just a little..

Syfo-Dias · Sep 9, 2021

@beltsman How's the tension maintenance with GW?

beltsman · Sep 9, 2021

Syfo-Dias said:
@beltsman How's the tension maintenance with GW?

It's great. Before gut I also used it with Firewire. Never noticed any tension issues in the crosses. Mains always went first.

It is soft but not mushy like Cream. Still get some crispness, which I like. Next I will try Max Power to compare. But I am happy with GW so I might just not try anything else.

Dartagnan64 · Sep 9, 2021

beltsman said:
I've only tried Cream and GW as crosses to gut, but I much prefer GW.

Ghostwire is not quite as soft as Cream but i agree it performs better. More firm consistent response. Cream can get a bit rubbery feeling but my arm loves it better.

Ghostwire is probably my favorite cross when my arm is feeling good. Once I tried it, i didn't feel any need to go back to 4G which was my go to in the past (but responsible for rip roaring TE).

graycrait · Sep 9, 2021

I have 2 have sets of Klip 16g Nat Gut waiting for some inspiration. But I am having fun with 19g Ghostwire mains x Gamma SG 18g crosses at 52lbs and 19G Ghostwire x 18g OGSM at 52, both strung in a 93" 18x20 Tour 10 Mids. I have never found Nat Gut to inspire me but I keep trying it out. Maybe I need to go the smaller gauges. It is too late for me to rely on more lessons/technique improvements.

flanker2000fr · Sep 10, 2021

I really need to try a poly / gut set-up, which I suspect will play beautifully, but break relatively quickly given my game.

The thing I would add is that, at club level, most players currently playing full poly should definitely consider a hybrid, be it gut / poly, poly / gut, multi / poly or poly / multi. It would do their game wonders in terms of providing some more power and substantially more comfort. At the expense of a negligible amount of spin, given our imperfect technique.

Dartagnan64 · Sep 10, 2021

flanker2000fr said:
I really need to try a poly / gut set-up, which I suspect will play beautifully, but break relatively quickly given my game.

The thing I would add is that, at club level, most players currently playing full poly should definitely consider a hybrid, be it gut / poly, poly / gut, multi / poly or poly / multi. It would do their game wonders in terms of providing some more power and substantially more comfort. At the expense of a negligible amount of spin, given our imperfect technique.

I do see some lower powered rec players using full poly and wonder why, when all their balls land at the service line with full swings. I keep thinking they really need to use either a more powerful frame or a more powerful string bed.

beltsman · Sep 10, 2021

Dartagnan64 said:
I do see some lower powered rec players using full poly and wonder why, when all their balls land at the service line with full swings. I keep thinking they really need to use either a more powerful frame or a more powerful string bed.

It is addicting though because it's difficult to hit the ball long. But now that I have switched to gut, I am enjoying the better depth and court penetration.

Syfo-Dias · Sep 10, 2021

beltsman said:
It is addicting though because it's difficult to hit the ball long. But now that I have switched to gut, I am enjoying the better depth and court penetration.

Sweatii_yetii · Sep 12, 2021

Thinking about doing a VS gut main and RPM cross on my pure strikes. Anyone have any experience with that combo?

phanamous · Sep 12, 2021

The hoop on the Pure Strike is very stiff so it needs a softer poly cross for better feel. RPM is too stiff I think. Head Hawk Touch 17 worked really well in that frame for me.

Sweatii_yetii said:
Thinking about doing a VS gut main and RPM cross on my pure strikes. Anyone have any experience with that combo?

Gut/poly improves almost any racquet (?)

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