Brad Gilbert : Federer's reached his highest level in 2017

Kralingen

Kralingen

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Third Serve said:
I think that's even more egregious than Djokovic not facing Fed in his 2004-2005 prime. Of course Fed's renaissance aligned perfectly with the year Djokovic was struggling to reach quarterfinals. Should have been like 2-3 meetings that year...
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Tbh, I think 2015 Fed was basically just as good if not better than 2017 Fed, he just didn’t have arguable peak Djokovic in 2017 like he did in 2015.

I do think ‘17 Fed vs say 2019-20 Djokovic would be quite fun. I think I might give the edge to Fed there even…
 
mike danny

mike danny

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Kralingen said:
Tbh, I think 2015 Fed was basically just as good if not better than 2017 Fed, he just didn’t have arguable peak Djokovic in 2017 like he did in 2015.

I do think ‘17 Fed vs say 2019-20 Djokovic would be quite fun. I think I might give the edge to Fed there even…
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Nobody was arguing 2017 Fed was better than 2015 Fed. I also think they were even in terms of level.

It was just a shame that he didn't play Djokovic in that kind of form while the latter was struggling. Djokovic basically went the Nadal route and avoided Federer and thus kept his mental edge.
 
mike danny

mike danny

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Kralingen said:
Tbh, I think 2015 Fed was basically just as good if not better than 2017 Fed, he just didn’t have arguable peak Djokovic in 2017 like he did in 2015.

I do think ‘17 Fed vs say 2019-20 Djokovic would be quite fun. I think I might give the edge to Fed there even…
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2017 was pretty much poetic justice because Fed was "robbed" in 2015.

At that time I certainly did not expect Fed to replicate that 2015 level ever again. I thought his 2015 level was one of a kind for his age.
 
abmk

abmk

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Kralingen said:
Tbh, I think 2015 Fed was basically just as good if not better than 2017 Fed, he just didn’t have arguable peak Djokovic in 2017 like he did in 2015.

I do think ‘17 Fed vs say 2019-20 Djokovic would be quite fun. I think I might give the edge to Fed there even…
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fed was a little better in 2017 compared to 2015. not enough to tip Wim 15 final level djoko, but probably enough to tip USO 15 final level djoko
FH, BH significantly better in 17, mental strength/confidence clearly better in 17
serve a little better in 15, movement a little better in 15, net play a little better in 15.
 
ForehandRF

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abmk said:
nadal wasn't bad, but wasn't playing that well in IW 17 either.
05 fed could absolutely beat similar level nadal similarly.

don't forget 12 fed beat a better nadal in straights at IW in windy conditions.
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See post 97, to get my idea :)

Yes 2005 would beat a 2017 like Nadal, but this is a disproportionate hypothetical, one at his physical zenith, the other in his 30s.

That 2012 was a good one from Fed, especially because of the conditions(Fed imo is underrated when it comes to how well he deals with elements).Still, I was not impressed nearly as much as I was in their 2017 match.
 
Kralingen

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abmk said:
fed was a little better in 2017 compared to 2015. not enough to tip Wim 15 final level djoko, but probably enough to tip USO 15 final level djoko
FH, BH significantly better in 17, mental strength/confidence clearly better in 17
serve a little better in 15, movement a little better in 15, net play a little better in 15.
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Yeah I can’t remember ever seeing an older player just level up his groundstrokes like that, usually you see improvements like that from 21-22 year olds. I suppose part of it was Ljubicic and gaining confidence with the racket, but it’s not like Fed’s ball striking was what I’d call below par in 2014-15. He just took it to a new level.

I’m not sure on the 2017 Fed hypotheticals bc like you say a lot of it was confidence and mentality.

I do think ‘15 tends to go underrated overall bc of results bias though, he looked incredible vs almost everyone but Djokovic post-AO ‘15. The Wawrinka and Murray matches were pure destruction.
 
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Third Serve said:
I think that's even more egregious than Djokovic not facing Fed in his 2004-2005 prime. Of course Fed's renaissance aligned perfectly with the year Djokovic was struggling to reach quarterfinals. Should have been like 2-3 meetings that year...
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Stars never aligned for Fed after 2012 against Djokovic but still, their rivalry is separated by razor thin margins with those 40-15s.
 
mike danny

mike danny

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Kralingen said:
Yeah I can’t remember ever seeing an older player just level up his groundstrokes like that, usually you see improvements like that from 21-22 year olds. I suppose part of it was Ljubicic and gaining confidence with the racket, but it’s not like Fed’s ball striking was what I’d call below par in 2014-15. He just took it to a new level.

I’m not sure on the 2017 Fed hypotheticals bc like you say a lot of it was confidence and mentality.

I do think ‘15 tends to go underrated overall bc of results bias though, he looked incredible vs almost everyone but Djokovic post-AO ‘15. The Wawrinka and Murray matches were pure destruction.
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2015 Fed was great, but he was never really tested by anyone outside Djokovic.

I know it may sound ridiculous and arrogant, but I feel like overcoming Nadal in 2017 was a better feat than anything he did in 2015. I mean the victories over Murray and Stan were nice, but he never had to prove himself vs those guys anyway.
 
ForehandRF

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mike danny said:
Fed was so painful to watch in 2013 with his outdated racquet. 0 power in his shots.
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Yeah, the change was a must.He gained some consistency on the BH, which helped him, but forehand, while still ATG shot, lost it's bite.That inside out forehand, which arguably was his best shot, wasn't as good with the 97 and he couldn't run around the BH as efficiently due to arriving later to the ball.
 
abmk

abmk

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Kralingen said:
Yeah I can’t remember ever seeing an older player just level up his groundstrokes like that, usually you see improvements like that from 21-22 year olds. I suppose part of it was Ljubicic and gaining confidence with the racket, but it’s not like Fed’s ball striking was what I’d call below par in 2014-15. He just took it to a new level.

I’m not sure on the 2017 Fed hypotheticals bc like you say a lot of it was confidence and mentality.

I do think ‘15 tends to go underrated overall bc of results bias though, he looked incredible vs almost everyone but Djokovic post-AO ‘15. The Wawrinka and Murray matches were pure destruction.
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well, tbh. fed in 15 got beat by Kyrgios at Madrid, got straight-setted by Wawa at RG and had poor Shanghai/Paris results (losing to Ramos-Vinolas&Isner). even Basel, he didn't play well till the final vs Nadal.
What you said applies in the stretch from Halle to USO

fed's BH was fine in 14-15, but FH paled in comparision to what it was except a few select matches.
 
RaulRamirez

RaulRamirez

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If there wasn't an edge to these discussions, the speculation over when a player was at his best would be interesting.
Although I was rooting for Rafa, I also appreciated Feds extremely high level from AO17 thru the Sunshine Double. Amazing stuff. His best since the new racket? Quite possibly. Whether it compared to the very best of Fed's career, I don't know. But some people seem to take it as an insult, as if somehow a compliment can be weaponized against him in GOAT debates.

Similarly, perhaps, the same with RAFA at RG17. He played at an extremely high level. Does it compare with 2008 or other years? I don't know. As with Fed (17), Rafa didn't have the same sheer speed as he had when he was younger. But the overall polish of that performance was terrific. I hope I have the right year (2017). But if people praise his performance too much in their view, some Rafa fans take the compliment as an insult? Oh yeah, you're nuts -- you should have seen him 10 years ago.

Rinse and repeat for Novak at AO 2019, even his final in 2021.

In my view, these three goats can dial up incredible performances from time to time that suggest their very best, but can they sustain it as they did at their more accepted peak/prime? They also know how to "peak" for the slams, especially for the later rounds.
 
RaulRamirez

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Kralingen said:
It is simultaneously their best and 6th/7th best movie lol
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Maybe, for Odds and Ends. To me, Fargo is their masterpiece, and The Big Lebowski also works for me. Many others were a bit hit-or-miss for me (but with several thumbs-up.) This one just never involved me. Sorry, all tennis fans, for this diversion.
 
socallefty

socallefty

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What‘s Gilbert smoking? Federer was better in 2015 than in 2017 and dominated the tour except for a BOATing Djokovic who stood in his way. Federer beat Djokovic 3 times including twice in 2015 finals while Novak was at his best winning 3/4 Slams on the way to his Novak Slam. Djokovic was 82-6 in 2015 with 3 losses to Federer while Federer was 63-11 with 5 losses to Novak.

Federer has had more dominant seasons when he was younger, but 2015 was the highest level I’ve seen Federer play at Indian Wells over the years - better than ever before or ever since to my subjective eyes. I’m in good company with this opinion as Federer himself said this at Cincinnati in 2015.

“I think I’m a better player now than when I was at 24 because I’ve practised for another 10 years and I’ve got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don’t have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it’s ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I’ve had to adapt to a new generation of players again.”

The difference in serve and BH compared to a decade before was noticeable. He moved slightly slower and hit less inside-FHs compared to 2005-2006, but it didn’t hurt him as he was able to hit his BH aggressively on the rise instead, including effective DTL shots in a way that he didn’t do previously. He in fact played a very balanced game on both wings in 2015 similar to Djokovic. The 2015 Indian Wells final is the highest level of tennis I have seen in three decades of going to pro tournaments.

It is interesting that Gilbert says that the 2019AO final performance from Novak is the highest level of tennis he has seen courtside. Wish I could have seen that match live to compare it with my memories of the 2015-16 ‘Novak Slam’ IW levels.
 
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abmk

abmk

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socallefty said:
What‘s Gilbert smoking? Federer was better in 2015 than in 2017 and dominated the tour except for a BOATing Djokovic who stood in his way. Federer beat Djokovic 3 times including twice in 2015 finals while Novak was at his best winning 3/4 Slams on the way to his Novak Slam. Djokovic was 82-6 in 2015 with 3 losses to Federer while Federer was 63-11 with 5 losses to Novak.

Federer has had more dominant seasons when he was younger, but 2015 was the highest level I’ve seen Federer play at Indian Wells over the years - better than ever before or ever since to my subjective eyes. I’m in good company with this opinion as Federer himself said this at Cincinnati in 2015.
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Firstly fed was significantly better in IW 17 than in IW 15. He was also significantly better in IW 12 than in IW15. Heck, he was better in IW 14 than in IW 15. and that's just this decade. IW 15 is like maybe fed's 8th best IW (after IW 04/05/06/11/12/14/17).

Secondly, fed's win over nadal at AO 17 was a tougher win in a slam than any opponent he beat in 15 in slams, even Wawa in AO 17 for that matter.
He was 54-5 in 2017 even with injury marred loss to Z.
going 4-0 vs 17 nadal, including AO win in 5 sets and thoroughly dominant in next 3 wins (not broken, no set lost) is significantly more impressive than losing in 4 each at Wim/USO to 15 djokovic; doing well in RR match but mediocre in the final at the YEC. dubai is still a 500, fed was good/clutch, but still a lesser win than the 3 wins over nadal in 17 in masters. Only Cincy 15 vs djokovic was real impressive&counted for quite a bit.

Federer in 15 lost to Seppi at the AO. He won AO in 17 facing a tough draw.
a little better in Wim in 17 than in 15.
better in USO 15 than in USO 17 due to injury just prior to USO 17
he made only 3 masters finals in 15 (playing 6 of them). in 17, he played 4 masters, making final in all of them
better in YEC in 15 than in 17

so better in slams in 17, better in masters in 17, better in YEC in 15

IW 17 was basically similar form to CIncy 15.
 
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Fiero425

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mike danny said:
Nobody was arguing 2017 Fed was better than 2015 Fed. I also think they were even in terms of level.

It was just a shame that he didn't play Djokovic in that kind of form while the latter was struggling. Djokovic basically went the Nadal route and avoided Federer and thus kept his mental edge.
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Avoided? OTTH Novak kept Federer from taking a half dozen more majors "down under" over the years not to mention 3 Wimbledons and a USO Final! Novak didn't have any help needing to go thru both Fedal at times! Avoiding? I think not! If anything he was tested more than any other GOAT since the BIG 4 were almost never upset! :giggle:
 
Third Serve

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Kralingen said:
Tbh, I think 2015 Fed was basically just as good if not better than 2017 Fed, he just didn’t have arguable peak Djokovic in 2017 like he did in 2015.

I do think ‘17 Fed vs say 2019-20 Djokovic would be quite fun. I think I might give the edge to Fed there even…
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Sure, but the issue is about Fed getting periods to vulture wins against a sub-par Djokovic. He didn't have quite as many opportunities as vice versa. The difference is certainly less extreme in this rivalry compared to Federer-Nadal, though (4 matches in 2013 rofl).

2015 and 2017 are about level I'd say. At the biggest events:

AO: 2017 by a clear margin
IW: 2017 by a clear margin and 2015 wasn't even that bad
Miami: 2017 by a clear margin
MC: 2015 by default because 2017 didn't play
Madrid: 2015 by default even with an opening round loss
Rome: 2015 by default
RG: 2015 by default
Wimbledon: 2017 by a little bit
Canada: 2017 by default
Cincinnati: 2015 by default but I doubt 2017 could have done anything to top it
US Open: 2015 by a fair margin
Shanghai: 2017 by a clear margin
Paris: 2015 by default
WTF: 2015 by a bit

2017 played a much more truncated season but pulled out generally more impressive results in the few tournaments he entered. 2015 deserves credit for maintaining a pretty good level despite playing a more complete season, but he did have plenty of weird losses in the Masters.
 
Kralingen

Kralingen

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Third Serve said:
Sure, but the issue is about Fed getting periods to vulture wins against a sub-par Djokovic. He didn't have quite as many opportunities as vice versa. The difference is certainly less extreme in this rivalry compared to Federer-Nadal, though (4 matches in 2013 rofl).

2017 played a much more truncated season but pulled out generally more impressive results in the few tournaments he entered. 2015 deserves credit for maintaining a pretty good level despite playing a more complete season, but he did have plenty of weird losses in the Masters.
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Oh without a doubt Fed would have decimated 2017-18 Djokovic. I still believe til this day that Novak had Fed in the back of his mind in that Chung loss in 2018 (though Chung did play well) and didn’t really want any part of Federer at that point.

then again pretty much every top 50 player on a good day could decimate that Djokovic, lol.

I would have loved to see ‘17 Roger 6 months earlier getting a chance at Novak at Wimby/USO ‘16. That would have put an end to basically every narrative about mental strength and “peak Roger” circling around that time, and I also think Novak might have risen to the challenge a bit more if it was Roger on the other side of the net.

either way yeah the only vulturing Fed really got to do was possibly 07-09 Novack, but it’s not like anyone really holds the ‘07 slam losses or the USO SFs against Djokovic. And plus he was playing better in those losses than quite a few of Fed’s losing versions (AO ‘16, FO ‘12, let’s not even get started on Wimby ‘19 or AO ‘20). I suppose it’s to be expected with the age gap. Djokovic hasn’t actually done thaaat much vulturing in the Slam H2H as I thought, only 6 matches played after 2012 (6-0) while there were 5 played before 2010 (1-4). Obviously with WTF and Masters and considering peak vs non peak it’s not even a comparison, but I thought the Slam H2H would be more stark.

really though why I’m banging the drum for 2015 is when you compare it to ‘21, same aged Djokovic, who is almost 100% going to finish the year without a Masters title or even an ATP 500, I gained a newfound respect for “inferior stamina” Roger playing a full year. He didn’t reach the absolutely ridiculous AO-spring HC run levels but I’d argue Halle-USO was nearly as good, with some of the best serving of his career. ‘17 was magic but ‘15 was actually a full, very high level, season mainly marred by AO and clay, and should be judged accordingly.
 
mike danny

mike danny

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Fiero425 said:
Avoided? OTTH Novak kept Federer from taking a half dozen more majors "down under" over the years not to mention 3 Wimbledons and a USO Final! Novak didn't have any help needing to go thru both Fedal at times! Avoiding? I think not! If anything he was tested more than any other GOAT since the BIG 4 were almost never upset! :giggle:
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He did avoid him in 2017 and finally played him again when Fed's level dropped, thus keeping his mental edge.
 
mike danny

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Kralingen said:
Oh without a doubt Fed would have decimated 2017-18 Djokovic. I still believe til this day that Novak had Fed in the back of his mind in that Chung loss in 2018 (though Chung did play well) and didn’t really want any part of Federer at that point.

then again pretty much every top 50 player on a good day could decimate that Djokovic, lol.

I would have loved to see ‘17 Roger 6 months earlier getting a chance at Novak at Wimby/USO ‘16. That would have put an end to basically every narrative about mental strength and “peak Roger” circling around that time, and I also think Novak might have risen to the challenge a bit more if it was Roger on the other side of the net.

either way yeah the only vulturing Fed really got to do was possibly 07-09 Novack, but it’s not like anyone really holds the ‘07 slam losses or the USO SFs against Djokovic. And plus he was playing better in those losses than quite a few of Fed’s losing versions (AO ‘16, FO ‘12, let’s not even get started on Wimby ‘19 or AO ‘20). I suppose it’s to be expected with the age gap. Djokovic hasn’t actually done thaaat much vulturing in the Slam H2H as I thought, only 6 matches played after 2012 (6-0) while there were 5 played before 2010 (1-4). Obviously with WTF and Masters and considering peak vs non peak it’s not even a comparison, but I thought the Slam H2H would be more stark.

really though why I’m banging the drum for 2015 is when you compare it to ‘21, same aged Djokovic, who is almost 100% going to finish the year without a Masters title or even an ATP 500, I gained a newfound respect for “inferior stamina” Roger playing a full year. He didn’t reach the absolutely ridiculous AO-spring HC run levels but I’d argue Halle-USO was nearly as good, with some of the best serving of his career. ‘17 was magic but ‘15 was actually a full, very high level, season mainly marred by AO and clay, and should be judged accordingly.
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Biggest difference though is that Novak didn't play Roger in slams in 3 of his best years, 2004-2006.

Roger meanwhile faced every version of Novak in existence.
 
D

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mike danny said:
Nadal nearly won, dude, but because he didn't suddenly he was tired while up a break in the 5th at exactly that moment.

Nadal nearly beat Djokovic at Wimb 2018 after playing a 5 hour match with Delpo, but apparently no excuses there. An d he also only had 1 day of rest.

Dude, the moment you start blaming tiredness for losing to a 35.5 year old is the moment you really lose every argument and it's the moment you start being pathetic. :-D
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You've lost the argument, because the entire Federer fan base (and commentators) was saying 10 years ago that Nadal's style of tennis damages his body and that he won't last as long as Federer, and many even said Nadal wouldn't play past age 30!
The "excuses" for Nadal were made by the Federer fan base....
And surely you agree, Nadal's body has taken a lot more beatings than Federer's body.
Nadal's body has broken down repeatedly.
 
D

DjokoLand

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It’s funny that Fed got easily beat by Djokovic in 08,11,16,20 at the AO yet 2017 was his best. If Djokovic was any decent that year he’d routine Fed like he always does there.

Fed was at his best 04-10 at the AO and just because he won it in 2017 doesn’t make his level higher.
It was only Djokovic stopping him anyway. He would of won 08,11,16,20 if Djokovic didn’t beat him.
 
abmk

abmk

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DjokoLand said:
It’s funny that Fed got easily beat by Djokovic in 08,11,16,20 at the AO yet 2017 was his best. If Djokovic was any decent that year he’d routine Fed like he always does there.

Fed was at his best 04-10 at the AO and just because he won it in 2017 doesn’t make his level higher.
It was only Djokovic stopping him anyway. He would of won 08,11,16,20 if Djokovic didn’t beat him.
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Yeah, no one sane thinks fed was at his best in AO 17.
AO 2004-07,09-10 and 12 were better.
Fed was injury hampered in AO 20. Thiem would've beaten him for sure.
AO 08 - I'd give the edge to Tsonga based on form. (fed was hampered by mono)
But yeah, fed would be easy favorite in AO 11/AO 16 if not for Djoko.
 
bnjkn

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I think 2017 AO Federer was quite strong. Not as strong as 04, 05, 07 and 09 (I don't really remember how he was playing in 2010, so I'm not including that, and 06 was worse than 17 imo). No, not as good as peak Djokovic at AO, of course, no one is.

He still needed to win matches to gain some confidence, and the Nadal match did just that. His form at 17 IW is as good as his peak years (2004-07) I think, but it was a fleeting moment whereas during the peak phase he would play close to that level the whole season pretty much.
 
abmk

abmk

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bnjkn said:
I think 2017 AO Federer was quite strong. Not as strong as 04, 05, 07 and 09 (I don't really remember how he was playing in 2010, so I'm not including that, and 06 was worse than 17 imo). No, not as good as peak Djokovic at AO, of course, no one is.

He still needed to win matches to gain some confidence, and the Nadal match did just that. His form at 17 IW is as good as his peak years (2004-07) I think, but it was a fleeting moment whereas during the peak phase he would play close to that level the whole season pretty much.
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Nah, AO 06 was better than AO 17 from fed. hit better highs for sure. tons of 6-0,6-1,6-2 sets along with some inconsistent play
I'd take AO 04/05/07 fed over peak djoko at the AO for one edition of AO. longer extended prime, djoko takes it.

in AO 10, fed was stellar in the SF demolishing tsonga and in the final masterclassing Murray.
was excellent vs Hewitt in 4R as well.
had some stumbles vs Andreev in 1R and davy in QF, but managed to do well to take both in 4 sets.

AO 10 definitely better than AO 17, not even close. AO 10 a little better than AO 09 as well considered he actually served well in the final unlike in AO 09 final.
 
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abmk said:
Nah, AO 06 was better than AO 17 from fed. hit better highs for sure. tons of 6-0,6-1,6-2 sets along with some inconsistent play
I'd take AO 04/05/07 fed over peak djoko at the AO for one edition of AO. longer extended prime, djoko takes it.

in AO 10, fed was stellar in the SF demolishing tsonga and in the final masterclassing Murray.
was excellent vs Hewitt in 4R as well.
had some stumbles vs Andreev in 1R and davy in QF, but managed to do well to take both in 4 sets.

AO 10 definitely better than AO 17, not even close. AO 10 a little better than AO 09 as well considered he actually served well in the final unlike in AO 09 final.
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So that makes 2005 Safin pretty clearly better than any version of Djokovic at the AO doesn’t it?
 
bnjkn

bnjkn

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abmk said:
Nah, AO 06 was better than AO 17 from fed. hit better highs for sure. tons of 6-0,6-1,6-2 sets along with some inconsistent play
I'd take AO 04/05/07 fed over peak djoko at the AO for one edition of AO. longer extended prime, djoko takes it.

in AO 10, fed was stellar in the SF demolishing tsonga and in the final masterclassing Murray.
was excellent vs Hewitt in 4R as well.
had some stumbles vs Andreev in 1R and davy in QF, but managed to do well to take both in 4 sets.

AO 10 definitely better than AO 17, not even close. AO 10 a little better than AO 09 as well considered he actually served well in the final unlike in AO 09 final.
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AO 06 was weird. I think there was some kind of ankle injury going on. Yeah, you might be right. He was vulnerable but 17 was too.

I find it hard to believe that AO 10 was better than 09. 09 was very impressive stuff. I know, that final, but still, at times he was unplayable.
 
NatF

NatF

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Kralingen said:
Tbh, I think 2015 Fed was basically just as good if not better than 2017 Fed, he just didn’t have arguable peak Djokovic in 2017 like he did in 2015.

I do think ‘17 Fed vs say 2019-20 Djokovic would be quite fun. I think I might give the edge to Fed there even…
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Fed moved a bit better in 2015, but Fed hit his groundies better in 2017. He had more belief in 2017 as well though he never tested it against Djokovic. Not sure which year was better serve wise, possibly 2015? It's close, I think where he was better probably varies by tournament. The AO + Sunshine double is 2017, Shanghai is 2017 - Cincy, USO + YEC is 2015, Wimbledon a bit of a toss-up. Of course on clay it's 2015 by default.

Not much in it.
 
mike danny

mike danny

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bnjkn said:
AO 06 was weird. I think there was some kind of ankle injury going on. Yeah, you might be right. He was vulnerable but 17 was too.

I find it hard to believe that AO 10 was better than 09. 09 was very impressive stuff. I know, that final, but still, at times he was unplayable.
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In the 2010 final I think he served better which would have helped in 2009. Think he was as good in the 2010 final as in the 2009 one in the other departments.
 
mike danny

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NatF said:
Fed moved a bit better in 2015, but Fed hit his groundies better in 2017. He had more belief in 2017 as well though he never tested it against Djokovic. Not sure which year was better serve wise, possibly 2015? It's close, I think where he was better probably varies by tournament. The AO + Sunshine double is 2017, Shanghai is 2017 - Cincy, USO + YEC is 2015, Wimbledon a bit of a toss-up. Of course on clay it's 2015 by default.

Not much in it.
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Level-wise not much between them, but had better feats in 2017, IMO.
 
InsideOut900

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abmk said:
so better in slams in 17, better in masters in 17, better in YEC in 15

IW 17 was basically similar form to CIncy 15.
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He played better at USO 15 than AO 17, just lacked the confidance to execute against Djokovic in the F.

Same for Wimbledon, he never played as well in 2017 as the 2015 SF and the first 2 sets of the 2015 final were almost as good as the semi against Murray.

Wimb 15 = Wimb 17
USO 15 > AO 17
RG 15 > skip at RG 17
USO 17 > AO 15

Just by reordering them I can get a different conclusion ;)
Plus I don't see 2017 Fed beating 2015 Djoko anywhere, not even pushing him to 5 probably.
 
mike danny

mike danny

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InsideOut900 said:
He played better at USO 15 than AO 17, just lacked the confidance to execute against Djokovic in the F.

Same for Wimbledon, he never played as well in 2017 as the 2015 SF and the first 2 sets of the 2015 final were almost as good as the semi against Murray.

Wimb 15 = Wimb 17
USO 15 > AO 17
RG 15 > skip at RG 17
USO 17 > AO 15

Just by reordering them I can get a different conclusion ;)
Plus I don't see 2017 Fed beating 2015 Djoko anywhere, not even pushing him to 5 probably.
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On the fast 2017 court he could give 2015 Djokovic some headaches. The latter wasn't imperious at the AO that year.
 
abmk

abmk

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InsideOut900 said:
He played better at USO 15 than AO 17, just lacked the confidance to execute against Djokovic in the F.

Same for Wimbledon, he never played as well in 2017 as the 2015 SF and the first 2 sets of the 2015 final were almost as good as the semi against Murray.

Wimb 15 = Wimb 17
USO 15 > AO 17
RG 15 > skip at RG 17
USO 17 > AO 15

Just by reordering them I can get a different conclusion ;)
Plus I don't see 2017 Fed beating 2015 Djoko anywhere, not even pushing him to 5 probably.
Click to expand...

not just confidence vs djokovic, but ability to sustain higher level for longer (in AO 17-early 18. he improved his fitness to an extent and aggressive baselining less tiring than his 14-15 game I guess)

better pre-final in USO 15 compared to AO 17, but also faced weaker competition

AO 17 fed is definitely taking atleast 2 sets off USO 15 djoko

Wim 17 fed also pushes Wim 15 djoko to 5 sets IMO.
Fed's Wim 17 4R/QF matches were pretty high level from him. Just can't put them exactly equal to Wim 15 SF vs Murray because Murray was a better opponent.
Fed just showed ability to sustain level for longer in 17-early 18 and the mental strength that he didn't in 14-15.

cannot put Wim 15 as equal to Wim 17 given the last 2 sets of the final.
 
Last edited:
abmk

abmk

Bionic Poster
bnjkn said:
AO 06 was weird. I think there was some kind of ankle injury going on. Yeah, you might be right. He was vulnerable but 17 was too.

I find it hard to believe that AO 10 was better than 09. 09 was very impressive stuff. I know, that final, but still, at times he was unplayable.
Click to expand...

re: comparision of the AO 2009 and AO 2010 finals, this ->

mike danny said:
In the 2010 final I think he served better which would have helped in 2009. Think he was as good in the 2010 final as in the 2009 one in the other departments.
Click to expand...

Overall comparision:

QF/SF from fed in AO 09 vs Delpo/Roddick were very good just like 4R/SF from fed in AO 10 (Hewitt/Tsonga)

Fed was down 2 sets to love in AO 09 vs berdych in 4R. Granted he was in trouble vs davy in AO 10 QF as well, but he played better to recover faster and close it out in 4 sets.

final clearly better in AO 10 due to serving.

so due to the above 2 factors, AO 10 goes clearly above AO 09 for me.

yeah, you could argue about Andreev in AO 10 1R, but that was first round, a tricky one and he faced no such opponent in 1st 3 rounds of AO 09 (Safin only showed glimpses, in 3R)
 
ForehandRF

ForehandRF

Legend
Fed's run at Wimbledon 2017 is underrated.I mean, the final was weak, but on the route to the final he straight setted opponents that have already beaten him in the past, on the same court :D
 
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