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Andy Murray is not an ATG. Not even close.
what even is the definition of atg? he's in a different tier to djokofedalroddick of course but whats the cut-off
I think it’s about time to open a separate Admit It forum in TTW.
Weak era admissions.As long as we admit white wine>>>red
6 slams is what somebody came up. Still haven't been able to trademark it.what even is the definition of atg? he's in a different tier to djokofedalroddick of course but whats the cut-off
Might be the threshold, only must add that it may include 3 slam winners if they are Scottish.6 slams is what somebody came up. Still haven't been able to trademark it.
As long as we admit white wine>>>red
Now this is the trolling I missedAndy Murray is not an ATG. Not even close.
Sorry, MN, you have fine taste most of the time, but I gotta disagree with you on this.As long as we admit white wine>>>red
Not a chance bruh. Red wine with steak is GOAT.
Sorry, MN, you have fine taste most of the time, but I gotta disagree with you on this.
Red wine for me any day of the week.
OK, his wine taste was already checked, and I think we all agree there.Sorry, MN, you have fine taste most of the time, but I gotta disagree with you on this.
Red wine for me any day of the week.
You should have just bumped the old thread up.Andy Murray is not an ATG. Not even close.
A one and a half year journey coming to a close hereAndy Murray is not an ATG. Not even close.
Lmfao.The guy who played in the era of three greatest tennis players of all time, beat all of them several times on many occasions on Slams and Masters, won 3 Grand Slams, played in 8 more finals, won 14 Masters 1000 titles, won 2 Olympic gold medals and won an ATP Finals, was 41 weeks at number 1 spot, is not an ATG?
Brother in my eyes he's top 10 of all time.
But is his ELO top 10?The guy who played in the era of three greatest tennis players of all time, beat all of them several times on many occasions on Slams and Masters, won 3 Grand Slams, played in 8 more finals, won 14 Masters 1000 titles, won 2 Olympic gold medals and won an ATP Finals, was 41 weeks at number 1 spot, is not an ATG?
Brother in my eyes he's top 10 of all time.
He is perhaps not in top 10 HC Slam peaks of 21st century: (Djokovic Federer Nadal, Agassi ‘03 AO, Tsonga ‘08 AO, Wawrinka AO ‘14, Pete ‘02 USO, Del Potro ‘09 USO, Cilic USO ‘14, Safin ‘05 AO) and then Roddick ‘03 USO&Hewitt ‘01 USO are probably comparableBrother in my eyes he's top 10 of all time.
So by this rubric Becker is an ATG? I like this benchmark!6 slams is what somebody came up. Still haven't been able to trademark it.
The guy who played in the era of three greatest tennis players of all time, beat all of them several times on many occasions on Slams and Masters, won 3 Grand Slams, played in 8 more finals, won 14 Masters 1000 titles, won 2 Olympic gold medals and won an ATP Finals, was 41 weeks at number 1 spot, is not an ATG?
Brother in my eyes he's top 10 of all time.
Borg was only four year older than LendlThis, absolutely this.
Imagine Lendl had to play in an era where Borg was only five years older, and Sampras and Agassi were his age. He'd be lucky to get those three Slams.
Borg was only four year older than Lendl
This, absolutely this.
Imagine Lendl had to play in an era where Borg was only five years older, and Sampras and Agassi were his age. He'd be lucky to get those three Slams.
Add Federer, Nadal and Djokovic era (which lasts almost 20 years now) to any other era, I doubt anyone but Sampras would win more than 3 Slams.
We can never know that. But my opinion is no one wins more than 3 Slams other than Sampras, just because of his domination on fast courts.
Federer, Nadal and Djokovic are untouchable.
If Sampras has GOAT serve, Federer then has God's serve.
Atleast Murray has won multi Queens titles how many has Djokovic won?Andy Murray is not an ATG. Not even close.
Atleast Murray has won multi Queens titles how many has Djokovic won?
Stop torturing me.
Low blowAtleast Murray has won multi Queens titles how many has Djokovic won?
I wouldn't end this comparison only at Murray. Hewitt, Roddick, Safin, Delpo and Stan have something to say about it too.Still the 4th best player of the century so far.
Let's see who can do better than him... win 4 slams, 15 Masters, be #1.... At this point it's not even certain Medvedev or Zverev are gonna win more GS than Murray. Even if they do, it will not be in the same era as Nadal Djokovic and Federer.
Because there wasn't anyone to lose to really. The field outside the Big 3 was pretty weak. After Fed's gen completely dissipated with Roddick's decline, there weren't really any elite players left outside the Big 3.You're right. Imagine he stayed competitive the way Fed did. And now imagine the other two coming up.
Murray has second-tier ATG-level game & heart. He really never lost to anyone outside the Big3.
Borg was only 4 years older to Lendl and yet that didn't stop Lendl from winning his slams, it was Borg who had to leave. Mac was also 3 years older to Lendl and that still didn't stop Lendl from winning. Younger ATG will always find ways to beat another ATG who is 5-6 years older because a younger ATG always has an age advantage when he is in his early 20s and beyond. Murray had the age advantage over Federer forever since the late 00s but he did not do anything worthy in best of 5, the state of Murray's tennis is such that even in 2021 a 90 year old Federer progressed farther at Wimbledon that Murray could.
Imagine the plight of Murray, even at 34 he is not better than a 40 year old semi retired guy who is basically at that level of being bageled by Hurkacz of all people. Murray never had any excuses because at no point in his career was he ever a threat to Federer, that is why he never was even remotely close to being an ATG.
I consider Fed to be the GOAT so the fact that Murray was his pigeon does not mean Murray isn't an ATG. Federer would have made most ATGs a pigeon too.
Murray was not just Federer's pigeon, he was also Novak and Nadal's pigeon as well, the H2Hs are horrible vs all 3, plus he also has a losing H2H to Stan in Slams despite a far impressive resume in best of 3, so the question marks on Sir Andy's Peak in BO5 raises serious doubt on how high it was.
Also using words like Pigeon might not be too appropriate, because going by the definition of pigeon even Federer was the pigeon of Nadal from 2005 till 2014, that is a full decade. Raise serious doubts on Fed's GOAThood, how can GOAT be pigeon to someone in his own era?
@Adam Copeland
I agree about Slam dividing between RF, RN, ND and PS, but Sampras would end with something like 6-8 Slams, while the Big 3 would have 12-16.
About serve, it's not only about how fast is the serve. Then Isner would be the greatest. It's about the toss, quality of 2nd serve, tactics. If it wasn't for that stupid guy who yelled "C'MON ROGER" after Federer tossed the ball, he would have hit an third ace in a row and would have won Wimbledon 2019. Novak Djokovic is the greatest returner of serve of all time, one of the best anticipation, reflexes on the court, and he still had hardest time to read Federer's serve. On that match point, he went on his right, while Federer was going for the T.
Sure, Sampras is the 2nd best of all time, close with Roddick. Federer is the serve GOAT.