Agassi with Djokovic's flexibility and movement.

ADuck

Legend
Agassi in his later years was god like in his shotmaking ability. The only thing that was holding him back was his movement and flexibility. But to my eye, he maxed out his tennis potential with the body he had in his 30's. To me, give him the movement of a mid-30's Djokovic today and he'd be unbeatable. He'd take out all of Nadal/Fed/Djokovic in their 20's.
 

ChrisRF

Legend
Well, then he very much would be Djokovic I guess. They are very similar as ballstrikers when in good position, but with his lack of movement and flexibility Agassi often had it harder to get into the position he needed when hitting the ball.

He also would REALLY have the same return abilities as Djokovic then and wouldn't get aced that often, especially by Sampras.

Djokovic is essentially Agassi and Hewitt combined. Agassi as a powerful ballstriker and Hewitt as a mover. Plus the ability to slide on any surface which even Hewitt didn't have.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Well, then he very much would be Djokovic I guess. They are very similar as ballstrikers when in good position, but with his lack of movement and flexibility Agassi often had it harder to get into the position he needed when hitting the ball.

He also would REALLY have the same return abilities as Djokovic then and wouldn't get aced that often, especially by Sampras.

Djokovic is essentially Agassi and Hewitt combined. Agassi as a powerful ballstriker and Hewitt as a mover. Plus the ability to slide on any surface which even Hewitt didn't have.

he'd be better than Djokovic returning wise then.
As of now, he's better on 2nd serve return and worse on 1st serve return. with extra flexibility, Agassi would be about even on 1st serve return and maybe even better than actually was on 2nd serve return.

And agassi is clearly better than djokovic as a ballstriker.
as good as Djokovic is ballstriking wise, agassi was a notch above.

edit: Djokovic also doesn't have Hewitt's footwork to keep up in the wind and lagged behind on grass footwork wise save for 15 when he wasn't slipping.
 
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BeatlesFan

Bionic Poster
He needed to lose weight first.
Yeah, a total porker.

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RaulRamirez

Legend
Djokovic is basically Agassi with (Djokovic's) flexibility and movement, rangier with a better serve.
I enjoyed watching Andre, and perhaps, it can be debated which one of them is the better ball striker (two of the best ever in that regard), but again, Novak is taller, more athletic and has the better serve.
 

NoleFam

Bionic Poster
Agassi hit predominantly flat. Djokovic has more spin in his groundstrokes, and uses more variation. Two different strokes. As far as athleticism, Agassi was never on Djokovic's level in that department even when he was in his 20s.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
Djokovic is basically Agassi with (Djokovic's) flexibility and movement, rangier with a better serve.
I enjoyed watching Andre, and perhaps, it can be debated which one of them is the better ball striker (two of the best ever in that regard), but again, Novak is taller, more athletic and has the better serve.

just as debatable as who can outlast the other on clay - Borg or Vilas?
Hint: Borg and its not really debatable.
while both are excellent, one is quite clearly better at it than the other.
 
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RaulRamirez

Legend
just as debatable as who can outlast the other on clay - Borg or Vilas?
Hint: Borg and its not really debatable.
while both are excellent, one is quite clearly better at it than the other.
A different dynamic, of course, as they played each other 22 times, 14 times on clay.
Interestingly, most of their matches - and mostly in Bjorn's favor - were one-sided.

As to who was the better baseliner of Agassi and Djok, I don't know, and there's no way to prove it either way.
They're two ATGs who are very high on any list of great ballstrikers and returners. Andre generally played a little more aggressively, Novak covered the court much better with better defensive skills.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
A different dynamic, of course, as they played each other 22 times, 14 times on clay.
Interestingly, most of their matches - and mostly in Bjorn's favor - were one-sided.

hence why it is called an analogy. though both excellent as far as patience/playing on clay goes, Borg was clearly better than Vilas.
Similarly though both Agassi and Djokovic are excellent ballstriking wise, Agassi was clearly better.

As to who was the better baseliner of Agassi and Djok, I don't know, and there's no way to prove it either way.
They're two ATGs who are very high on any list of great ballstrikers and returners. Andre generally played a little more aggressively, Novak covered the court much better with better defensive skills.

who was a better baseliner is debatable, but you mentioned about ballstriking. Agassi clearly better ballstriking wise. Djokovic's movement makes the baselining between them debatable.
 

RaulRamirez

Legend
hence why it is called an analogy. though both excellent as far as patience/playing on clay goes, Borg was clearly better than Vilas.
Similarly though both Agassi and Djokovic are excellent ballstriking wise, Agassi was clearly better.



who was a better baseliner is debatable, but you mentioned about ballstriking. Agassi clearly better ballstriking wise. Djokovic's movement makes the baselining between them debatable.
We're not far apart here, as I'd say movement put him over the top from the baseline.
And don't get me wrong, I very much enjoyed watching Andre.
 

abmk

Bionic Poster
We're not far apart here, as I'd say movement put him over the top from the baseline.
And don't get me wrong, I very much enjoyed watching Andre.

Fair enough.
I wouldn't have said anything if you put Djoko as better from the baseline. But purely ballstriking wise, Agassi was just better.
 
H

Herald

Guest
Agassi was always godlike in his shotmaking ability, and was far better in his 20s than 30s. As a Fedfan, it bothers me to see some stating otherwise.

Having said that, if you give him Novak's movement and flexibility, of course he takes out the big 3. He had Federer fighting for his life with his injured body in 04 and 05. Imagine if he has the ability to pummel Rodger's backhand AND chase down his forehand. Life ain't gonna be a box of Swiss chocolates. With his greater aggression, he'll give Rafa more fits than Novak did. Novak will do the best, but against someone who moves as well as him and hits the groundies, especially the forehand, better, he'll be in an uphill battle.
 
H

Herald

Guest
More slams but even with Djokers movement, the courts are still ridiculously fast back then. Now if we are talking today, 30 plus slams easy if Andre had Noles movement. As his ground strokes were way deadlier than Djokers. I mean he was even giving peak Fed fits
If he has Novak's movement, he is going to pummel Fed's miserable 04-05 backhand into powder.
 

Devilito

Hall of Fame
Andre starting out with an APD, full poly, modern tennis crutches like psychologists, nutritionists, insane prize money, and Novak's body, including height makes him GOAT, especially in modern baseline era. Heck, take a 15 year old Courier, teleport him in 2022, give him an APD + full poly and by 18 he'd be dominating the tour. You could also say, teleport Novak back to 1990 and give him a PS85 with full gut and enter him in Wimbledon and he'd be lucky to win a single set against anybody in that draw.
 
So the best striker of our era is nowhere near Agassi! Give me a break!
Retriever does not = ballstriker. Seriously, you need to go back and watch some Agassi-Fed, Novak-Fed matches. Agassi's retrieving was not bothering Fed - it was his power and ball-striking. Novak's power and ball-striking were not bothering Fed, even if one focuses on 2009-2012, it was his retrieving (unless you want to count 40-15 at the 2011 US Open, which was ONE shot). The problem is, of course, that by the time Nole figured out how to scale back his aggression and rely on his movement, Fed was entering his 30s and the physical scale flipped in egg-no gluten-breathing free Djoker's favor. That said, Fed definitely gave Djoker some of the same he got from Andre when the age difference was in Djoker's favor. Neither older player was able to dominate the younger as they may have in their prime - fancy that...

Sorry man, no comparing Agassi to Djoker for ballstriking. Agassi was in another league, and that's compared to pretty much everyone in tennis history. Prime Connors was maybe his equal, but that's about it.
 

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
Agassi was an excellent mover before the meth stint. He then bulked up a lot in the 98-99 comeback and then had legitimate congenital back problems which limited his movement. In all seriousness it’s a wonder he was even able to play tennis let alone make Slam finals in 04/05.

If you watch old broadcasts they regularly say he’s one of the quickest players on tour. Foster Wallace in that famous “string theory” essay says he was as fast as Chang.
 

Kralingen

Talk Tennis Guru
Andre starting out with an APD, full poly, modern tennis crutches like psychologists, nutritionists, insane prize money, and Novak's body, including height makes him GOAT, especially in modern baseline era. Heck, take a 15 year old Courier, teleport him in 2022, give him an APD + full poly and by 18 he'd be dominating the tour.
I wholly believe this. You have to seriously hold and swing the racquet setup Andre had before you can really compare his shots to the ones you see today. He was hitting with Kevlar. All we can really do is evaluate guys in their era. Andre’s style was perfect for this era of tennis and never really got a chance to play in it.

You could also say, teleport Novak back to 1990 and give him a PS85 with full gut and enter him in Wimbledon and he'd be lucky to win a single set against anybody in that draw.
This on the other hand is BS. If Novak was raised in that era he’d have adapted his game for the conditions, maybe wouldn’t be as successful but a winner with the raw athleticism, vision, and problem solving capability of a Djokovic would be able to be competitive in any era.
 

Bertie B

Hall of Fame
Agassi was timid and afraid. Djokovic is shameless, arrogant, and fearless.

Bravery. That was the weapon Djokovic AND Sampras had over Agassi.
 

skaj

Legend
He would still have a lesser serve than Djokoloco, which is a factor. But he would definitely be a force - he can match Djoko's backhand and return, has better forehand, shot-making and tactical mind, add to that Novak's reach and you have an amazing player.

Agassi's movement is underrated though, he anticipated very well and was getting to a lot of balls.
 

Quaichang

Semi-Pro
Agassi in his later years was god like in his shotmaking ability. The only thing that was holding him back was his movement and flexibility. But to my eye, he maxed out his tennis potential with the body he had in his 30's. To me, give him the movement of a mid-30's Djokovic today and he'd be unbeatable. He'd take out all of Nadal/Fed/Djokovic in their 20's.
Novak is also few inches taller with longer wingspan
 

skaj

Legend
Agassi was timid and afraid. Djokovic is shameless, arrogant, and fearless.

Bravery. That was the weapon Djokovic AND Sampras had over Agassi.

Timid and afraid? I would never describe him like that.
You mean the way he speaks? On court he was nothing like that...
 

skaj

Legend
Tanking matches.

That's not avoiding, is it.

As for their matches, those were in most cases some of the most competitive and exciting of that ere. The rivalry was hugely popular in the 90s, if you remember. So it does not make much sense.
 
H

Herald

Guest
your joking, right? or ... you are old.

agassi is 180, joker is 188. you can look at their speed, power and athletisism. there is no comparison.
a 1990s slam winner may not pass 3rd round today.
Are you joking now? 34 year old Agassi was forcing 24 year old Federer to 5 sets, and an obviously hampered Agassi in pain made him fight for a 4 set win in the final the next year. Agassi is going to make all 3 of the big 3 fight hard to get a win over him.
 

vex

Legend
Agassi in his later years was god like in his shotmaking ability. The only thing that was holding him back was his movement and flexibility. But to my eye, he maxed out his tennis potential with the body he had in his 30's. To me, give him the movement of a mid-30's Djokovic today and he'd be unbeatable. He'd take out all of Nadal/Fed/Djokovic in their 20's.
Nobody is “taking out” that murder’s row of peak B3s. But yeah if you gave one of the greatest shot makers ever the movement of a top 1-2 movement guy… that player would be ridiculous
 
Are you joking now? 34 year old Agassi was forcing 24 year old Federer to 5 sets, and an obviously hampered Agassi in pain made him fight for a 4 set win in the final the next year. Agassi is going to make all 3 of the big 3 fight hard to get a win over him.
you must be an agassi fan, but "forcing 24 year old Federer to 5 sets" is just false and illusion. i also like agassi. he is good at what he does well: eye hand coordination, precise timing when he is in position and balance. however tennis game nowadays is more about movement and physical. agassi is far behind in those aspect.
his height also limits him a lot: he is just 180, maybe not even 180. djokovic is 8cm taller, considering arm length differences, djokovic can have 15cm more each at one side and 30cm more total coverage on both left and right.
so there is no comparison.
 
H

Herald

Guest
you must be an agassi fan, but "forcing 24 year old Federer to 5 sets" is just false and illusion. i also like agassi. he is good at what he does well: eye hand coordination, precise timing when he is in position and balance. however tennis game nowadays is more about movement and physical. agassi is far behind in those aspect.
his height also limits him a lot: he is just 180, maybe not even 180. djokovic is 8cm taller, considering arm length differences, djokovic can have 15cm more each at one side and 30cm more total coverage on both left and right.
so there is no comparison.
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