Stringing 2 mains at once to save time OK?

B

bruno hau

Professional
I was at *********'s the other day and saw the stringing lady string 2 mains at a time (to save time, I guess). She said that was the way they (*********'s) taught her to string. But she also side she does NOT string 2 crosses at a time.

Is stringing 2 mains at a time OK to save a little time? Wouldn't the non-pulling main string not be as tight as the pulling main string?
 
T

TennisandMusic

Guest
bruno hau said:
I was at *********'s the other day and saw the stringing lady string 2 mains at a time (to save time, I guess). She said that was the way they (*********'s) taught her to string. But she also side she does NOT string 2 crosses at a time.

Is stringing 2 mains at a time OK to save a little time? Wouldn't the non-pulling main string not be as tight as the pulling main string?
Click to expand...

No I don't think that is ok at all. And saving time on the mains? They should take you all of five minutes if you're focused...
 
K

kingdaddy41788

Hall of Fame
bruno hau said:
I was at *********'s the other day and saw the stringing lady string 2 mains at a time (to save time, I guess). She said that was the way they (*********'s) taught her to string. But she also side she does NOT string 2 crosses at a time.

Is stringing 2 mains at a time OK to save a little time? Wouldn't the non-pulling main string not be as tight as the pulling main string?
Click to expand...

It's not ok. Don't do it. Don't let someone who does it string your racquet. What store were you at?
 
M

mpenders

New User
Generally, I would agree in saying no to pulling two mains at once on a standard frame. That, and it's time to find another stringer.

However, there are several racquetball frames that REQUIRE you to pull two mains at once. Head, Eforce, Wilson, Ektelon each have frames that require this.

So...make sure you undestand what the stringer was working on before judging too harshly.
 
S

shojun25

Professional
I think he's referring to Golf smith.

And no, do not do that. The stringer will just give an inconsistent tension if you pull 2 mains at once.
 
T

tbini87

Hall of Fame
don't do it, don't let anyone who does it string your sticks. learn the right way and do it everytime to get consistent results.
 
dancraig

dancraig

Hall of Fame
I think a lot of stringers double and triple pull to save time and effort. I heard that the pre-strung racquets have all the mains pulled with one or two pulls. I heard they have one lady insert the string and another pulls the tension. Here are some of the machines used in those racquet factories.

http://www.eagnas.com/lilylee/racfactor.html

I had an old time stringer advise me to just add a couple of pounds to the requested tension to make up for the friction of double pulling everything. He said, "they can't tell any difference".
I've got a feeling we would be surprised at the number of respected stringers who do this all the time. Time is money, I guess.
I never do it.
 
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dancraig

dancraig

Hall of Fame
I would like to take two identical racquets and string one correctly and double and triple pull the heck out of the other one, after adding a couple of pounds of tension to the second. Then take them out and hit.
If we could get our normal stringing time down to 15 minutes, four frames per hour would be some pretty good money. (just kidding)
 
B

bruno hau

Professional
It was at Golf Smith. She was definitely stringing a tennis racket. The machine is a Gamma constant pull electronic machine (modern floor model of course). I guess for a contant pull electronic machine stringing 2 mains at one time MIGHT be OK?
 
J

JohnP

Rookie
No, 2 mains at a time is not OK. But it happens way too much. Professional stringing done at clubs and stores are some of the biggest ripoffs, not only the amount charged, but the general sloppiness like doubling up on mains, etc.
 
R

rlee7777

Rookie
By pulling two or three mains at a time, it is impossible to achieve a consistent stringbed at a reference tension. This bad technique is why racquets fresh from a "retail stringer" play so bad initially. I was in retail doing racquet stringing many years ago. While I took pride in my work and was very careful, stringers in other stores took shortcuts and were proud about the quickness of their job. Our Ektelon machines were all calibrated from the same tech, but jobs from each branch store came out different because of the person doing the stringing. USRSA certification means nothing. I am a tennis player and I know what a poor job would do with the racquet and someone's game. These other "stringers" are looking to make $$ quickly.

Moral of this rant: KNOW who is stringing your racquet! Don't be impressed by their fancy machines.
 
D

dacrymn

Professional
What do you mean two mains at once? You mean down and up, then tension? if you do it one way, how do you tighten with the tensioner in the way, not to mention the throat?
 
abenguyen

abenguyen

Hall of Fame
dacrymn said:
What do you mean two mains at once? You mean down and up, then tension? if you do it one way, how do you tighten with the tensioner in the way, not to mention the throat?
Click to expand...

it just means that you lace two mains and tension there. rather than lacing one main and tensioning clamp and then repeat for 2 strings, they are saying that this stringer laced 2 mains tensioned off that last one and clamp which is bad
 
H

Hooooon

Rookie
even tension should not be your concern here, although it is afftected. by pulling on a string that is wrapped around the grommet you risk snapping the string if it gets caught and guarantee weakening your frame, possibly breaking it if you string anywhere near the high end recommended tension (above rec. tension you are a moron for trying to pull 2). ta ta
 
D

dacrymn

Professional
but what about the handle that knocks against the tension wheel? What about the throat that gets in the way?
 
YULitle

YULitle

Hall of Fame
It should NEVER be done unless it is absolutely necessary, ala some racketball rackets.

USRSA certification DOES mean something, just less than what it used to. The point of knowing who is stringing your rackets is by far the best. Watch them string your racket. Ask questions. If any of the answers involve words like "shortcut" or "to save time", be suspicious.

Not all USRSA stringers are bad, but some are. I've heard of MRTs using this very same method to save time. It's sad, but true. However, if you cannot spend the time with the stringer that is necessary, either don't have it strung, or leave it with someone who is certified. A stranger who isn't certified is a bigger risk than one who is IMO.
 
G

gjoc

Semi-Pro
lilxjohnyy said:
i was just wondering if this also applied to crosses..
Click to expand...

Yes, absolutely.

It’s actually even more important to do one at a time with the crosses because of the friction/drag/resistance from weaving through the already-tensioned mains.
 
jasoncho92

jasoncho92

Professional
From common sense, i can say its a lot worse with poly than a multifilament or natural gut because of the coil memory which keeps poly from full evening the tension out on both mains. So if you have to do it with a softer string, go ahead but dont with poly. Also dont do it on crosses even if youre in a hurry
 
Mad iX

Mad iX

Semi-Pro
Happens all the time. Stringers tend to get lazy when their lunch break is coming up.
I don't think it really saves much time at all. For me personally, most of the time I spend is on weaving the crosses anyway.
If you're stringing your own racket then you could try and see if you can feel the difference for yourself, but you will most likely get an inconsistent stringbed.
 
S

slice bh compliment

G.O.A.T.
Yes, there are crooked tennis professionals and stringers just like there are crooked lawyers, accoutnants and doctors.

I like pro shops, with guys who actually care about their products, services and reputations.

Places like golfschmidt, they are only good for a clothing or apparel sale, as far as I am concerned. Trusted with actual tennis equipment? Nah.
 
YULitle

YULitle

Hall of Fame
Mad iX said:
Happens all the time. Stringers tend to get lazy when their lunch break is coming up.
I don't think it really saves much time at all. For me personally, most of the time I spend is on weaving the crosses anyway.
If you're stringing your own racket then you could try and see if you can feel the difference for yourself, but you will most likely get an inconsistent stringbed.
Click to expand...

You will get an inconsistent string bed. The question is whether or not you notice.

And just because you are stringing with a multifilament, doesn't mean the problem isn't there. The friction at the grommets when the string turns the corner is too great to insure that both mains are at the same reference tension. To prove this, if you have a linear tension head, pull both ways, one on one side of the mains, one on the other. The cummulative amount of string you pull through the grommets by pulling two at a time will be less than both separately. This directly relates to the actual tension on the mains.

Also, as it was stated. Doing this on crosses is WORSE. Because you have added the friction of the crosses against the mains to the friction of turning that corner. This is always bad. I can't see it saving time anyhow. Pulling two crosses at one time guarantees that you will be weaving a hard weave atleast once. The time saved from weaving one ahead is lost at the "benefit" of the time saved from pulling half the time. I would speculate that it doesn't balance out in the two-at-a-time's favor.

The bottom line, as I've stated before, is only do it when you have no other choice (like some racketball rackets.)
 
YULitle

YULitle

Hall of Fame
slice bh compliment said:
Yes, there are crooked tennis professionals and stringers just like there are crooked lawyers, accoutnants and doctors.

I like pro shops, with guys who actually care about their products, services and reputations.

Places like golfschmidt, they are only good for a clothing or apparel sale, as far as I am concerned. Trusted with actual tennis equipment? Nah.
Click to expand...

Not ALL of them are bad. I hear they are better on the West Coast and near New York, but for the most part, I'm afraid, you are right.

Again, the better your relationship with your stringer and the more questions you ask, the safer you and your racket are from mis-treatment.
 
M

Masamusou

Semi-Pro
slice bh compliment said:
Yes, there are crooked tennis professionals and stringers just like there are crooked lawyers, accoutnants and doctors.

I like pro shops, with guys who actually care about their products, services and reputations.

Places like golfschmidt, they are only good for a clothing or apparel sale, as far as I am concerned. Trusted with actual tennis equipment? Nah.
Click to expand...

And another perfect example of a broad generalization that makes you sound completely ignorant. I know for a fact that some of the locations have MRTs, one such MRT in the Dallas area for example posts on these boards sometimes and has strung pro tournaments for a while. Another MRT in the Denver area uses his personal Star 5 instead of the substandard Neos 1000 that is provided. No national chain is going to have great stringers at all locations, but to make the comment that *none* of them do is entirely ridiculous and only serves to show your ignorance.
 
N

Netbudda

Rookie
Funny, I saw a pro of a well respected tennis club here in Davidson, NC pulling two crosses until the racquet was done ( I don't know about the mains, they were already done before I started watching ). I asked him if it was alright to do so and he said it was. It got me thinking really hard about how much they really care about the customers, especially if the racquet owner is just a senior guy who just plays recreational tennis.
 
C

chrisplchs

Professional
There are some racquets that you have to double pull the mains (i.e. Prince Ring) which sux to do.

But generally, for most racquets, double pulling is crime punishable by a punch in the crouch
 
I

IanRichardson

Semi-Pro
This is why it is important to find a good reputable stringer who you can establish a relationship with, and trust. I personally would never have my racquet strung by a large retail store, eg. (Sprts Auth) because USUALLY (not all the time) the person stringing knows little to nothing about tennis. That is at least what i have found to be true. The best thing to do is get a stringing machine and do it yourself, it isnt hard and it really isnt that time consuming. If you insist on having someone else do the job for you then find a shop which has someone who is certified, or someone who really knows what they are doing. Here in winston-salem NC, the best tennis shop is ran buy a guy who is not USRA, but who has been stringing (and stringing correctly) for about 30 years. On the other hand, in High Point, NC there is a tennis center with a few USRA guys that I would not trust my sticks to. The point of what i said is, find someone that knows what they are doing, and above all you trust, and let them do the work.
 
S

slice bh compliment

G.O.A.T.
Masamusou said:
And another perfect example of a broad generalization that makes you sound completely ignorant. I know for a fact that some of the locations have MRTs, one such MRT in the Dallas area for example posts on these boards sometimes and has strung pro tournaments for a while. Another MRT in the Denver area uses his personal Star 5 instead of the substandard Neos 1000 that is provided. No national chain is going to have great stringers at all locations, but to make the comment that *none* of them do is entirely ridiculous and only serves to show your ignorance.
Click to expand...


Very sorry you think I sound ignorant. Maybe I am ignorant.

Maybe you've got a bit of a temper...and a soft spot for some of the very good people associated with a certain chain. I do not know.

Obviously there are exceptions, man. But I would like to point out (from my experience as a player, a stringer, an MRT and a tester for both the USPTA and the USRSA) that...just because someone is an MRT does not mean they are always going to uphold that high standard after they pass that test. And it definitely does not mean that the MRT always holds his uncertified staff to that standard.

For the record, I never said that *NONE* of the people at GS string well. You used that word. I'm just saying that I trust stringers I know. Not just myself, but the pro shop guys I know. ANd I really trust a shop where I know ALL the stringers who might work on my frame are solid.
You just do not know who is allowed on the stringing machine at certain places.

SO sorry I made you so angry. My apologies. Please do forgive me for not being very clear the first time.
 
GoochMoney

GoochMoney

Rookie
That is crazy...find another stringer.

Yesterday, after a match I got talking to my opponent that was looking at purchasing a stringing machine. He was hesitating because the guy they use at the "AUTHORITY" is really good and he picked up a bunch of strings on clearance there. He has no stringing experience so I advised him to pay attention to the mounting because you can really damage a racquet, and maybe even break the frame. He then tells me that this has happened to him at the "AUTHORITY" and they told him they would not do anything because he bought the racquet on clearance -- from them. Crazy!
 
Lefty5

Lefty5

Hall of Fame
ok, i admit it, i even pull 2 strings at once when i string my own rackets. I can't tell much off a diff. My question is this...over time, does the inconsistency in the string bed even out? How many sets do you think it takes until all the strings are the same?
 
knasty131

knasty131

Professional
I also string my rackets by pulling 2 mains and 2 crosses at once...I have done both ways and don't feel a difference...and I am very sensitive on how my strings feel so I think I would notice an "inconsistent string bed"...

I am going to email Wilson, Babolat and several other racket companies and ask if this voids warranty just for my own information...

But as far as this being a practice that is "unacceptable", I think it was started by someone who thought that it was bad and voiced his/her opinion and it has become generally accepted amongst everyone...

My doubles partner used to think that stringing 2 at once was bad and saw me do it and I just flat told him that I don't notice any difference and now he does it and says he doesn't either...

I'm not saying go out and do this, but I have only used this method on all of my main playing rackets (HPS 7.1, HPS 6.1, nBlade, & Babolat PDR) and nothing bad has ever come from it...

-Kevin
 
R

rlee7777

Rookie
knasty131 said:
I also string my rackets by pulling 2 mains and 2 crosses at once...I have done both ways and don't feel a difference...and I am very sensitive on how my strings feel so I think I would notice an "inconsistent string bed"...

I am going to email Wilson, Babolat and several other racket companies and ask if this voids warranty just for my own information...

But as far as this being a practice that is "unacceptable", I think it was started by someone who thought that it was bad and voiced his/her opinion and it has become generally accepted amongst everyone...

My doubles partner used to think that stringing 2 at once was bad and saw me do it and I just flat told him that I don't notice any difference and now he does it and says he doesn't either...

I'm not saying go out and do this, but I have only used this method on all of my main playing rackets (HPS 7.1, HPS 6.1, nBlade, & Babolat PDR) and nothing bad has ever come from it...

-Kevin
Click to expand...

Of course it will "work"...the tension will not be consistent across the stringbed initially -- after some time hitting, it will even out, but at a lower unpredictable tension that is not "reference". In other words, stringing this way at "60 lbs" for example, will NOT be a true "60 lbs" -- it will stabilize at a lower tension that is unpredictable because of the varying degrees of grommet friction.

If you are stringing for yourself, fine. But this is not a good method to assure a reliably consistent, accurate stringing job.
 
R

rorschack

Semi-Pro
This is really really bad! And I'll tell you why. I decided to measure the actual tension of my drop weight stringer with the clutch/rachet by using a fish scale which is a very common method. I have a fixed clamp system by the way.

I tested it with the racquet mounted and simulating how I would pull the first main string with a starting clamp, clamping the string on an adjacent hole on the inside of the racquet. When there's no friction at all like pulling with the head of the racquet pointing toward the string gripper, the tension was dead on.

Now, when tensioning the opposite way, with the string bent under the frame, the tension was CONSISTENTLY 2-3 lbs lower! I tested and re-tested many times, and it's still 2-3 lbs lower. The friction resulted from the bend reduced the tension by 2-3 lbs!

I also tested the tension without the frame mounted, and the fish scale showed that the tension was dead on, meaning that my drop weight stringer is good.

Lesson learned was that any kind of friction will result in significant tension loss. duh! I can't imagine how much tension you are losing by pulling 2 mains at a time, let alone pulling two crosses with the mains already in.

As for cross, I used to reduce about 2lbs lower than the main, thinking that the cross is shorter, but after seeing how much friction can reduce tension, I am stringing it at the same as the main from now on!
 
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courtrage

courtrage

Professional
i dont think anyone can tell the diff between 2-3 lbs...i also think i heard about a study that found most people couldnt tell between 5lbs difference...who knows...

i've double pulled mains on my frames for 7 years and been stringing for 10 or 11 years total...i only really do my own frames and sometimes a friends and never broken any strings or frames on the machine and friends never complained about tension... my machine has a crank, not a weight...
 
S

slice bh compliment

G.O.A.T.
2 or three lbs, huh? I believe it, and I think that is significant. In fact I'm impressed that it was not 5 lbs lost.

I suppose if you are perfectly consistent and always do it...and bump up your reference tension 2 or 3 lbs, you're cool. But I still think it is shoddy. Probably depends on the frame, the friction with the grommet strip, the type of string...those sorts of variables.

Wonder what the loss is on crosses if you pull two at a time?

Never mind. I'm not considering it. Ever. That's weak.
 
G

gjoc

Semi-Pro
courtrage said:
i dont think anyone can tell the diff between 2-3 lbs...i also think i heard about a study that found most people couldnt tell between 5lbs difference...who knows...
Click to expand...

That was an interesting article, if you’re thinking of this one.

Here is an excerpt:


Tension and Player Perceptiveness
Virtually all players assume that they can tell the difference between different tensions. Some claim to be able to identify a difference of a pound or two. Tests have been performed (Professors Rod Cross and Rob Bower) that bring that claim into question. In a test of 41 advanced recreational players, only 11 (27 percent) could determine a difference of 11 pounds or less. In fact, 15 (37 percent) couldn't correctly identify the difference even when the tension between two racquets varied by 22 pounds.

Using earplugs to dampen auditory clues lowered the success rates even more. Players were only allowed four hits with each racquet, so the only data the player was interpreting was feel, not an accumulated history of location of ball placement that could be used to deduce string tension. Some players said that they noticed a difference, but then incorrectly chose which racquet had a higher tension.
Click to expand...

Note that when they say that the players couldn’t tell the relative tensions, that was based on literally just the feel of the racquets hitting the balls.

They didn’t let the players hit enough times to get any feedback on where the balls were going on the court, and it doesn’t mean that the players wouldn’t be able to tell/notice the difference in tension if they were to actually play tennis with the different racquets.
 
S

slice bh compliment

G.O.A.T.
That test is awesome. But a little contrived don't you think? Four shots?

Just two weeks ago, I got two identical sticks strung up with the same stuff. One at 60/56, the other at 58/54. Unlabeled. I could definitely tell the difference. By sound, and after just about four or five shots...it was fairly obvious.
And I consider myself not all that sensitive.
 
K

kingdaddy41788

Hall of Fame
gjoc said:
That was an interesting article, if you’re thinking of this one.

Here is an excerpt:



Note that when they say that the players couldn’t tell the relative tensions, that was based on literally just the feel of the racquets hitting the balls.

They didn’t let the players hit enough times to get any feedback on where the balls were going on the court, and it doesn’t mean that the players wouldn’t be able to tell/notice the difference in tension if they were to actually play tennis with the different racquets.
Click to expand...

Four shots though? Come on. You'd have to give them ten at least. Especially if they weren't warmed up.
 
G

gjoc

Semi-Pro
slice bh compliment said:
That test is awesome. But a little contrived don't you think? Four shots?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I’m with you.

I think it was an interesting article/study, in an intellectual curiosity kind of way, but I don’t think it had any practical significance.

You know, it’s like how it’s hard to tell how a racquet feels just by bouncing a ball on it, but even small differences are easily noticeable as soon as you start to play with it on a court.
 
YULitle

YULitle

Hall of Fame
In "The Physics and Technology of Tennis," they site a study that said that over 50% of recreational tennis players can't tell a 15 lbs. difference. And, that when 18 professional satellite players were tested, 11 of them couldn't tell an 11 lbs. difference.

This shouldn't take away from my previous statements of how wrong this practice is. Unless you do this for only your rackets, you should never pull two at a time.

This isn't something that is rooted in tradition. Stringers don't say not to do it simply because someone told them not to, most of the time. Anyone with a little knowledge of physics can see quite clearly that the tension on the first string is not the same as the first. This creates an inconsistent string bed. There is no arguing this point. It is fact. Aruge all you want that you can't tell the difference. I believe that you can't.
 
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