How Limiting is the Height Factor?

DoubleDeuce · Oct 5, 2008

One of the reasons I do not see a champ when I look at Juan Martin Del Potro (what a great tennis name) is his height. Even though I like his personality and smart game, but I dont see that harmony or smoothness in his frame when he moves. It appears that his height is a liability. Too much Height could make players more prone to injuries also.

I took a quick look at the height of the number one players in the last 30 years and didnt see any taller than 6'3". I didnt look at the actual height just the names and trusted my memory of the player.

This post is not about Del Potro rather about the prime height for a potential champ. It's probably where Fed and Nadal are at 6'1".

canuckfan · Oct 5, 2008

Safin is 6-4, possibly 6-5. Former no.1, 2 time slam winner (should have been more if he wasn't so emotionally fragile). At his best when he was younger and healthier, he has beaten sampras, agassi, federer, hewitt etc.

For sure, beyond a certain point height becomes a liability in tennis. But I think there is room a few inches beyond 6-3. Maybe 6-6 or so, if I had to pick a number.

BallzofSkill · Oct 5, 2008

We had a big discussion about this albeit indirectly. There is a good portion of people on here who've said that basketball players like lebron james, who is almost 7' tall, would totally dominate tennis if her were to practice from a young age. The other portion, like me, aren't quite convinced.

I'll say that, basketball players seem to be much more nimble and athletic than tennis players for some reason. But the types of movements are so different so it's hard to compare.

adlis · Oct 5, 2008

DoubleDeuce said:
One of the reasons I do not see a champ when I look at Juan Martin Del Potro (what a great tennis name) is his height. Even though I like his personality and smart game, but I dont see that harmony or smoothness in his frame when he moves. It appears that his height is a liability. Heigher height could make players more prone to injuries also.

I took a quick look at the height of the number one players in the last 30 years and didnt see any taller than 6'3". I didnt look at the actual height just the names and trusted my memory of the player.

This post is not about Del Potro rather about the prime height for a potential champ. It's probably where Fed and Nadal are at 6'1".

6'10 vs 5'6 http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/headtohead/?player1=Rochus%2C+Olivier&player2=karlovic

6'7 vs 5'6 http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/headtohead/?player1=Rochus%2C+Olivier&player2=Chris+Guccione

6'5 vs 5'6 http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/headtohead/default.asp?playernum1=P338&playernum2=R397

Andres · Oct 5, 2008

canuckfan said:
Safin is 6-4, possibly 6-5. Former no.1, 2 time slam winner (should have ben more if he wasn't so emotionally fragile). At his best when he was younger and healthier, he has beaten sampras, agassi, federer, hewitt etc.

For sure, beyond a certain point height becomes a liability in tennis. But i think there is room a few inches beyond 6-3. Maybe 6-6 or so, if I had to pick a number.

Actually, he has stated he's 197 cm tall, making him 6'5 and a half

He was almost 18 years old when he was listed at 6'4

punch · Oct 5, 2008

Sorry, but LeBron is far from 7'. I don't consider his height, 6'8, close to 7', at least in basketball talk.

Tennis is a more of a skill sport, look at Monfils, by far the best athlete in tennis but doesn't get the top results. It's easy to say if a basketball player played tennis from a young age he would dominate the sport, but not everyone is a natural ball striker, has feel, mechanics etc.

supertrex · Oct 5, 2008

Michael Chang prove its not and especially Justine Henin.

BallzofSkill · Oct 5, 2008

^Chang didn't prove anything. That's like saying Mugsy Bogues proved something. He didn't.

DoubleDeuce · Oct 5, 2008

Originally Posted by canuckfan
Safin is 6-4, possibly 6-5. Former no.1, 2 time slam winner (should have ben more if he wasn't so emotionally fragile). At his best when he was younger and healthier, he has beaten sampras, agassi, federer, hewitt etc.

For sure, beyond a certain point height becomes a liability in tennis. But i think there is room a few inches beyond 6-3. Maybe 6-6 or so, if I had to pick a number.

Guazzelli:Actually, he has stated he's 197 cm tall, making him 6'5 and a half
He was almost 18 years old when he was listed at 6'4

The site I looked at as a reference had not listed Safin because he never ended a year as a number one:

http://www.tennis-x.com/stats/atprankhist.shtml

He was on the top for nine weeks only and never a dominant figure. If he was 6'5" then that could be a reason why.

sureshs · Oct 5, 2008

DoubleDeuce said:
One of the reasons I do not see a champ when I look at Juan Martin Del Potro (what a great tennis name) is his height. Even though I like his personality and smart game, but I dont see that harmony or smoothness in his frame when he moves. It appears that his height is a liability. Too much Height could make players more prone to injuries also.

I took a quick look at the height of the number one players in the last 30 years and didnt see any taller than 6'3". I didnt look at the actual height just the names and trusted my memory of the player.

This post is not about Del Potro rather about the prime height for a potential champ. It's probably where Fed and Nadal are at 6'1".

After he beat Roddick, Roddick said the new generation is so much taller and that is a huge advantage, and how he was considered tall once upon a time.

DoubleDeuce · Oct 5, 2008

sureshs said:
After he beat Roddick, Roddick said the new generation is so much taller and that is a huge advantage, and how he was considered tall once upon a time.

Roddick is knows for his poor commentary.

sureshs · Oct 5, 2008

DoubleDeuce said:
Roddick is knows for his poor commentary.

Yeah, but it shows taller is better. In every walk of life. Taller people make more money and all that, as shown by surveys, and are found in leadership positions. Only exception is a horse jockey or a gymnast.

!Tym · Oct 5, 2008

supertrex said:
Michael Chang prove its not and especially Justine Henin.

Chang proved that if he were even just two inches taller, he would have gone down as a multiple grand slam champion and one of the greatest of all time...but that's just my opinion. Chang is a guy who always came up just a hair short against MOTIVATED taller guys on the biggest of stages. Just a tiny bit more height would have helped his serve consistency and power yet without hurting his groundstroke consistency. This is why Courier said he thought Chang's obsessive experimentation with the longbody actually hurt him more than it helped him, he said it was because he thought Chang's greatest strength used to be his consistency from the baseline, but that he lost a lot of that once he went to the longbody. I actually tend to agree a little with that (not entirely though).

DoubleDeuce · Oct 5, 2008

sureshs said:
Yeah, but it shows taller is better. In every walk of life. Taller people make more money and all that, as shown by surveys, and are found in leadership positions. Only exception is a horse jockey or a gymnast.

True but that's quite a different discussion. Taller people get more promotions. That has an indirect relatinship to their height. In sports such as table tennis, soccer, weight lifting, wrestling, ice skating, hockey....taller is not better, because of a direct relationship of what requires of the body. We cannot generalize like that.

Nanshiki · Oct 5, 2008

Or race car drivers / motorcycle racers... but that's for the same reason jockeys are small.

chrisdaniel · Oct 5, 2008

....

I know it's not a sport but a lot of the greatest Rock n Roll singers/musicians are short. Just wanted to mention that.

Toxicmilk · Oct 5, 2008

I wanna see Ivo Karlovic do Limbo lol.
not a sport, i know. but still.

Rv.D · Oct 5, 2008

Height can be an advantage and a disadvatage.

If Ivo wasnt that tall:would he have such a strong serve????

DoubleDeuce · Oct 5, 2008

Rv.D said:
Height can be an advantage and a disadvatage.

If Ivo wasnt that tall:would he have such a strong serve????

This is something I hear people repeat; Taller= Better serve

You have to be a good server first. Last night Delpo lost to byrd who's 3 inches shorter but produced numerous aces and eventually won.

bet · Oct 5, 2008

!Tym said:
Chang proved that if he were even just two inches taller, he would have gone down as a multiple grand slam champion and one of the greatest of all time...but that's just my opinion. Chang is a guy who always came up just a hair short against MOTIVATED taller guys on the biggest of stages. Just a tiny bit more height would have helped his serve consistency and power yet without hurting his groundstroke consistency. This is why Courier said he thought Chang's obsessive experimentation with the longbody actually hurt him more than it helped him, he said it was because he thought Chang's greatest strength used to be his consistency from the baseline, but that he lost a lot of that once he went to the longbody. I actually tend to agree a little with that (not entirely though).

Actually it's not just your opinion but one that has been stated publicly by many players and coaches. I think the sentiment originally came from Mcenroe who when asked what a few inches would have meant to Chang, stated very matter-of-factly and emphatically that if Chang had been a couple inches taller he would have been Jimmy Connors. This has been repeated many times by others.

I have also long said...since 1996...that the longer racquet hurt Chang. The power he gained was also deceptive. His power had already increased into 1993 with the normal racquet, he could already hit aces and get near 120mph with the POG. (130 on the radar today). His ace count only increased because he started going for them so much, at the expense of erratic 1st serve percentage. People would see him hit a winner off the ground and say "wow, it's the longer racquet". He ALREADY had a forehand weapon (Sampras said so himself) and had already improved his game ever year(by Agassi's admission and he disliked Chang a great deal at the time...plus he was quite a jerk himself in those days). In some ways, I thought his power went DOWN off the ground with his longer racquet and his consistency definitely went down. When he was perfectly set-up, he may have gotten a hair more power, which didn't matter as he already had enough anyways when perfectly set-up. On other shots, I felt he actually had lost power and had to much more carefully "steer" the ball, plus his angles got quite a bit worse.

However, I don't want to evicerate him too much. After all, it took a great deal of guts to try such a bold experiment given his previous success....that willingness to try is what seperates him in my mind from just about any other player I can think of.

Andres · Oct 5, 2008

DoubleDeuce said:
This is something I hear people repeat; Taller= Better serve

You have to be a good server first. Last night Delpo lost to byrd who's 3 inches shorter but produced numerous aces and eventually won.

Berdych is actually one inch shorter, but the point still stands

obsessedtennisfandisorder · Oct 5, 2008

This is actually one of the main reasons I love sports like tennis and cricket and soccer over basketball and "big" sports such as american football.

Question: Could Chang be a great basketballer or footballer?

Look they are great sports, don't get me wrong, but the "physical" side i feel tends to overwhelm the skill set and finesse involved.

The average height of an american male is 5'11 or 6'0?..
What is the average height of a basketballer?

Now Two sports i know a lot about Soccer and cricket....

A lot of the greatest players were...........SHORT!

Pele, maradona, Messi, Rooney, gascoigne,

great taller/ave height players too....such as

i think you would find the average height in a soccer world cup is similar to the average height of men worldwide.

In cricket...actually bradman,sobers..tendulkar, lara, miandad...SHORT guys..

hewitt and and agassi and mcenroe etc...give a lot of hope to boys that nomatter how high they go..they can be great...

World Beater · Oct 5, 2008

obsessedtennisfandisorder said:
This is actually one of the main reasons I love sports like tennis and cricket and soccer over basketball and "big" sports such as american football.

Question: Could Chang be a great basketballer or footballer?

Look they are great sports, don't get me wrong, but the "physical" side i feel tends to overwhelm the skill set and finesse involved.

The average height of an american male is 5'11 or 6'0?..
What is the average height of a basketballer?

Now Two sports i know a lot about Soccer and cricket....

A lot of the greatest players were...........SHORT!

Pele, maradona, Messi, Rooney, gascoigne,

great taller/ave height players too....such as

i think you would find the average height in a soccer world cup is similar to the average height of men worldwide.

In cricket...actually bradman,sobers..tendulkar, lara, miandad...SHORT guys..

hewitt and and agassi and mcenroe etc...give a lot of hope to boys that nomatter how high they go..they can be great...

i generally agree with the theme of your post.

i also like tennis because it values skills, technique and just a talent for the sport rather than basing it on pure athleticism.

An athlete cannot make it in tennis on just physical abilities alone but in basketball and football, its certainly possible.

bet · Oct 6, 2008

World Beater said:
i generally agree with the theme of your post.

i also like tennis because it values skills, technique and just a talent for the sport rather than basing it on pure athleticism.

An athlete cannot make it in tennis on just physical abilities alone but in basketball and football, its certainly possible.

I don't. You're simply looking at sports where the ideal height range is shorter. I'd look and track and field and endurance sports if you wish to remove a much larger element of skill.

I haven't seen to many NBA size soccer players. Just because you can relate better to the average height of soccer players does not mean the sheer physical abilities are not as or very nearly as important.

With Chang's athletic ability (he was tested at an Olympic training center and found gifted in every area), he would have had a some chance of being in the NBA had he devoted his life as much to it as he did tennis. Just as Jordan might have been an excellent soccer player had he focused on it. The ideal builds are just different for these sports. I do not think they are particularly qualititatively differnt.

superman1 · Oct 6, 2008

canuckfan said:
Safin is 6-4, possibly 6-5. Former no.1, 2 time slam winner (should have ben more if he wasn't so emotionally fragile). At his best when he was younger and healthier, he has beaten sampras, agassi, federer, hewitt etc.

Younger and healthier is the key there. Safin has had many injuries. The really tall guys seem to be prone to more injuries, especially with their knees. And of the taller guys, Safin is the one with the smoothest movement.

Tennis_Goodness · Oct 6, 2008

It's a huge factor. Rochus is probablly one of the most talented players on the tour. He's definately in the top 10 most talented players to play right now because at his height he's at a huge disadvantage and still gives the best players problems. If he was 6'0, grand slam contention would be there no doubt in my mind!

Deleted member 22147 · Oct 6, 2008

Andres Guazzelli said:
Actually, he has stated he's 197 cm tall, making him 6'5 and a half
He was almost 18 years old when he was listed at 6'4

Bullcrap, I and many people i know have stood within talking distance from him and he looks like a solid 6'4''. He looked the exact same height as me.

Deleted member 22147 · Oct 6, 2008

obsessedtennisfandisorder said:
This is actually one of the main reasons I love sports like tennis and cricket and soccer over basketball and "big" sports such as american football.

Question: Could Chang be a great basketballer or footballer?

Look they are great sports, don't get me wrong, but the "physical" side i feel tends to overwhelm the skill set and finesse involved.

The average height of an american male is 5'11 or 6'0?..
What is the average height of a basketballer?

Now Two sports i know a lot about Soccer and cricket....

A lot of the greatest players were...........SHORT!

Pele, maradona, Messi, Rooney, gascoigne,

great taller/ave height players too....such as

i think you would find the average height in a soccer world cup is similar to the average height of men worldwide.

In cricket...actually bradman,sobers..tendulkar, lara, miandad...SHORT guys..

hewitt and and agassi and mcenroe etc...give a lot of hope to boys that nomatter how high they go..they can be great...

Messi? haha

pound cat · Oct 6, 2008

Rv.D said:
Height can be an advantage and a disadvatage.

If Ivo wasnt that tall:would he have such a strong serve????

His height allows him to see 3 more feet of the box than other players so he can be more accurate, like serving from a tree as Todd Martin said.

But height also makes it harder for him to bend down to pick up groundies.

Rickson · Oct 6, 2008

First of all, 6'5" is not that tall. There was a time in the NBA when guards weren't supposed to be that tall and a certain player named Michael proved that at 6'6", he could move better than any player in history. When his mid height for NBA standards were thought to be the maximum height for good movement, along comes his teammate, Scottie, who is a full 2 inches taller than Michael. Then comes this argument that big men can't move very well and along comes David Robinson who could sprint faster than any NBA guard and he's 7 foot 1. Is 6'5 too tall to be a good tennis player? Not even close to too tall.

stician · Oct 6, 2008

I like Roddick for his tenacity, work ethic and consistency but using height as a factor for him that day is just an excuse. He's listed at 6-2... let's see what others are listed as...

Nadal 6-1
Federer 6-1
Sampras 6-1
Kuerten 6-3
Courier 6-1
Edberg 6-2
McEnroe 5-11
Borg 5-11
Muster 5-11
Connors 5-10

back on topic I think height is a factor but up to 6-2 seems to be the formula for pro tennis success.

Nellie · Oct 6, 2008

I always thought, in looking at players like Lendl, Sampras, and Federer that the ideal male tennis player was a 6'1 knuckle dragger. That allowed these players to move around the court quickly and easily but still have a big serve.

I think that tennis players are getting shorter, particularly if you look at the top ten. With improvements in techniques, small guys like Davidinko and Ferrer can hammer servers and can move around the court better. Also, as the game gets slower and server and volley dies out, there is less height advantage to the net game. I do think, however, that a good moving big guy, like a young Safin, has a big advantage. I think that Gulbis, more than anyone shows how a big, power guy can play.

Deleted member 22147 · Oct 6, 2008

Safin is the tallest number 1 of all time.

sureshs · Oct 6, 2008

obsessedtennisfandisorder said:
The average height of an american male is 5'11 or 6'0?..

It is 5'9" I thought

sureshs · Oct 6, 2008

Many posts here are about how shorter sportsmen were successful. But shorter or average people are much more numerous than tall people, specially when you exclude certain countries like US, Croatia and Netherlands. It is like saying most sportsmen are right handed because it gives them an advantage, which is not true.

tennisdad65 · Oct 6, 2008

Ocean Drive said:
Safin is the tallest number 1 of all time.

Becker never got to #1?

tennisdad65 · Oct 6, 2008

with so many tournaments on clay and the atp trying to decrease the 'Serve and NO return' game on grass/hardcourts, it is important to have a good serve & good mobility & endurance too & skill ofcourse.. 6-10 guys have the advantage in serve and net coverage, but not much else.

But, I think it is only a matter of time before a 6-6+ stunning athelete with great tennis skills + mental attitude totally dominates the game.

tennis_hand · Oct 6, 2008

stician said:
I like Roddick for his tenacity, work ethic and consistency but using height as a factor for him that day is just an excuse. He's listed at 6-2... let's see what others are listed as...

Nadal 6-1
Federer 6-1
Sampras 6-1
Kuerten 6-3
Courier 6-1
Edberg 6-2
McEnroe 5-11
Borg 5-11
Muster 5-11
Connors 5-10

back on topic I think height is a factor but up to 6-2 seems to be the formula for pro tennis success.

your statistics are biased towards history. you only look at the past players.

Until a no 1 came at 6-6 or 6-7, you'll probably say 6-3 is the highest. after that, u'll say 6-7 is the highest a tennis player can go.

it's like saying nothing at all.

Rickson · Oct 6, 2008

Yes he did, but Boris Becker was 6'2 and a 1/2. Safin is almost 2 inches taller than Becker.

DoubleDeuce · Oct 6, 2008

tennis_hand said:
your statistics are biased towards history. you only look at the past players.

Until a no 1 came at 6-6 or 6-7, you'll probably say 6-3 is the highest. after that, u'll say 6-7 is the highest a tennis player can go.

it's like saying nothing at all.

Where do you want him to look at? Players not born yet?

So far the data says height is least limiting at around 6'1".

ClubHoUno · Oct 7, 2008

Rickson said:
Yes he did, but Boris Becker was 6'2 and a 1/2. Safin is almost 2 inches taller than Becker.

Boris Becker is listed as being 6' 3" - still 1" shorter than Safin.........

Rickson · Oct 7, 2008

Well he was listed at 6'2 for a while until he miraculously grew in his twenties.

adlis · Dec 21, 2008

Ivo Karlovic (CRO right) d. Olivier Rochus (BEL left) 6-1 6-2

Nanshiki · Dec 21, 2008

He probably wouldn't be a pro at all if he was 5'10".

Tempest344 · Dec 22, 2008

I would say after 6 '2 6' 3 even you start to suffer in terms of movement etc

How Limiting is the Height Factor?

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